FCPS comprehensive boundary review

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:55% are low income. Typically that means Title 1 services which give a lower teacher-student ratio. That is exactly what Lewis has so why add more kids unless they expect those kids to pump up test scores?

People are too obsessed with test scores. Don’t worry about the average or median score. It is meaningless if you have for example a center that pulls students from other schools or a large number of low SES or ESL students. Truly, the average and median scores tell you nothing about how good the school is.

Good luck changing that. Start with the new VDOE accreditation system, the. The FCPS school board ,and hit Redfin, Zillow and great schools next.

They push that narrative for marketing but doesn’t mean it is a good metric o evaluate a school. When you see an ad or commercial for a floor cleaner, and you see people ecstatic about cleaning just because they use that product and that it solves all their problems, do you believe you’ll be dancing through life if you use it?

Forgot to add old/new, the VDOE isn’t measuring the right things.

My friend, we agree test scores are a bad measure of a school or even how educated and ready for adulthood and citizenship a child/teen may be.

We disagree that anything or anyone is going to change that anytime soon.

I didn’t say anyone would change the metric, but a good analyst understands that those measures are not what should be used.

For example, average SAT score at Langley HS with very little poverty or at-risk students (less than 5%) is 1314 in 2022
(92nd-93rd percentile), while at Herndon HS with a high number of at-risk (FARMS) students (55%) is 1187 (80th percentile) still well above the average. Can you honestly say Langley is doing a great job based on these scores given its demographics? And can you say with a straight face that Herndon is a FAILING school (per some on DCUM) with that average score particularly with the number of at-risk students with presumably dragging down the average?

One could argue that Langley HS is underachieving and Herndon HS is overachieving.

Lewis HS — which has a similar number of at risk kids as Herndon HS (55%) AND uses IB — has an average SAT of 1063 (60th percentile). A lower average score but still NOT FAILING. This could likely be due to the use of IB versus AP.

South Lakes HS, which also has IB but fewer at risk students (35 percent) than Herndon or Lewis, has an average SAT score of 1205 similar to Herndon. However, one could argue it is also underperforming given it has IB like Lewis and fewer at risk kids than either Herndon or Lewis.

About 18% of West Springfield’s students are at risk. Its average SAT score is 1195 (81st percentile) which is very close to Herndon and South Lakes average scores. WSHS is underperforming compared to its neighbor Lewis HS given the IB and higher poverty. Seems WSHS parents would get a better bang for their buck at Herndon HS.



This was all back of the napkin using data from:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fairfax-county-sat-scores-continue-surpass-state-and-global-averages

https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108%3A8

https://research.collegeboard.org/reports/sat-suite/understanding-scores/sat

All this back and forth about not sending their kids to Lewis and that's the average SAT score? LMAO

So to prove that we shouldn’t use test scores, you are using test scores?

See the reason I don’t want to use them is because I think the kids themselves are more important than the tests. The relationships and built around neighborhoods, sports activities, parks and communities are what make a home for me.

I think my kids would be fine anywhere. I do think strong communities, businesses and keeping things local are better for everyone. That isn’t just reflected in test scores.

I am whole heartedly against traveling further, losing the ability to walk to my kids schools and/or uprooting my kids in the middle of their school careers precisely because i think the relationships they have built are more important than test scores.

Many people here DONT think their kid will be fine anywhere. That’s the issue.

Also, boundaries changes are on the edges. If you’re walking distance, you are 99% unlikely to have to switch to a different school.

And no, test score are not the only metric to look at. Again, people are arguing that they don’t want their children to go to failing schools, and the data shows that two of the schools regularly dumped on are not failing.

Which is why I think having Lewis and Herndon as smaller schools is beneficial for the kids there and should be looked at as a positive. Many places give smaller class sizes and extra staffing to Title 1 schools. Adding more kids into those schools won’t help anyone. It will help overall test score averages.

The only two high schools in FCPS that are Title I schools are Bryant (alternative HS) and Justice.

Also, class sizes aren’t smaller just because a high school’s total enrollment is lower.

Well that is sad, they are elligible according to the VDOE website. Why doesn’t FCPS apply for Lewis?

“Schools enrolling at least 40 percent of students from low-income families, or schools who have received a schoolwide eligibility waiver, are eligible to use Title I funds for schoolwide programs that are designed to upgrade their entire educational programs for all students, particularly the lowest-achieving students.”

I thought that is why people were upset about lack of “programming” there weren’t enough kids in a class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:55% are low income. Typically that means Title 1 services which give a lower teacher-student ratio. That is exactly what Lewis has so why add more kids unless they expect those kids to pump up test scores?

People are too obsessed with test scores. Don’t worry about the average or median score. It is meaningless if you have for example a center that pulls students from other schools or a large number of low SES or ESL students. Truly, the average and median scores tell you nothing about how good the school is.

Good luck changing that. Start with the new VDOE accreditation system, the. The FCPS school board ,and hit Redfin, Zillow and great schools next.

They push that narrative for marketing but doesn’t mean it is a good metric o evaluate a school. When you see an ad or commercial for a floor cleaner, and you see people ecstatic about cleaning just because they use that product and that it solves all their problems, do you believe you’ll be dancing through life if you use it?

Forgot to add old/new, the VDOE isn’t measuring the right things.

My friend, we agree test scores are a bad measure of a school or even how educated and ready for adulthood and citizenship a child/teen may be.

We disagree that anything or anyone is going to change that anytime soon.

I didn’t say anyone would change the metric, but a good analyst understands that those measures are not what should be used.

For example, average SAT score at Langley HS with very little poverty or at-risk students (less than 5%) is 1314 in 2022
(92nd-93rd percentile), while at Herndon HS with a high number of at-risk (FARMS) students (55%) is 1187 (80th percentile) still well above the average. Can you honestly say Langley is doing a great job based on these scores given its demographics? And can you say with a straight face that Herndon is a FAILING school (per some on DCUM) with that average score particularly with the number of at-risk students with presumably dragging down the average?

One could argue that Langley HS is underachieving and Herndon HS is overachieving.

Lewis HS — which has a similar number of at risk kids as Herndon HS (55%) AND uses IB — has an average SAT of 1063 (60th percentile). A lower average score but still NOT FAILING. This could likely be due to the use of IB versus AP.

South Lakes HS, which also has IB but fewer at risk students (35 percent) than Herndon or Lewis, has an average SAT score of 1205 similar to Herndon. However, one could argue it is also underperforming given it has IB like Lewis and fewer at risk kids than either Herndon or Lewis.

About 18% of West Springfield’s students are at risk. Its average SAT score is 1195 (81st percentile) which is very close to Herndon and South Lakes average scores. WSHS is underperforming compared to its neighbor Lewis HS given the IB and higher poverty. Seems WSHS parents would get a better bang for their buck at Herndon HS.



This was all back of the napkin using data from:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fairfax-county-sat-scores-continue-surpass-state-and-global-averages

https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108%3A8

https://research.collegeboard.org/reports/sat-suite/understanding-scores/sat

All this back and forth about not sending their kids to Lewis and that's the average SAT score? LMAO

So to prove that we shouldn’t use test scores, you are using test scores?

See the reason I don’t want to use them is because I think the kids themselves are more important than the tests. The relationships and built around neighborhoods, sports activities, parks and communities are what make a home for me.

I think my kids would be fine anywhere. I do think strong communities, businesses and keeping things local are better for everyone. That isn’t just reflected in test scores.

I am whole heartedly against traveling further, losing the ability to walk to my kids schools and/or uprooting my kids in the middle of their school careers precisely because i think the relationships they have built are more important than test scores.

Many people here DONT think their kid will be fine anywhere. That’s the issue.

Also, boundaries changes are on the edges. If you’re walking distance, you are 99% unlikely to have to switch to a different school.

And no, test score are not the only metric to look at. Again, people are arguing that they don’t want their children to go to failing schools, and the data shows that two of the schools regularly dumped on are not failing.

Which is why I think having Lewis and Herndon as smaller schools is beneficial for the kids there and should be looked at as a positive. Many places give smaller class sizes and extra staffing to Title 1 schools. Adding more kids into those schools won’t help anyone. It will help overall test score averages.

I agree schools are too big. That’s one reasons expansions should be out of the question. But LOLOL. Now you’re arguing that boundaries shouldn’t change for the benefit of schools like Justice and Herndon and … . Hey, I’m good with keeping them small, but let’s be honest, that is 10000% not why people don’t want the boundaries changed.

I’m laughing so hard, my sides are hurting. That’s is prime time gaslighting what’s happening.

It's easy to say additions should be out of the question, but it's not like FCPS has land set aside for new high schools. In some cases they are the only sensible approach, and since FCPS has already expanded most of its high schools it's kind of absurd to switch gears and screw over the few remaining schools that haven't been similarly expanded.

FCPS doesn’t need more land. It has capacity. If we build out and population drops, we are left with sad empty buildings like the shopping malls and strip store malls.

FCPS used to try to meet the needs of kids where they were located. If that meant closing schools at the same time as schools elsewhere were built or expanded, that's what they did. And the closed schools invariably found alternative uses (adult day care centers, adult education centers, administrative buildings), or sometimes razed, so the comparison to empty shopping malls seems off.

The current focus on "efficiency" is a farce, as illustrated by Karl Frisch's $80M boondoggle at Dunn Loring getting a green light even though there is no need. It is only being trotted out as a goal because some people see it as a way to accomplish some of their goals as long as they tie it to "efficiency."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:55% are low income. Typically that means Title 1 services which give a lower teacher-student ratio. That is exactly what Lewis has so why add more kids unless they expect those kids to pump up test scores?

People are too obsessed with test scores. Don’t worry about the average or median score. It is meaningless if you have for example a center that pulls students from other schools or a large number of low SES or ESL students. Truly, the average and median scores tell you nothing about how good the school is.

Good luck changing that. Start with the new VDOE accreditation system, the. The FCPS school board ,and hit Redfin, Zillow and great schools next.

They push that narrative for marketing but doesn’t mean it is a good metric o evaluate a school. When you see an ad or commercial for a floor cleaner, and you see people ecstatic about cleaning just because they use that product and that it solves all their problems, do you believe you’ll be dancing through life if you use it?

Forgot to add old/new, the VDOE isn’t measuring the right things.

My friend, we agree test scores are a bad measure of a school or even how educated and ready for adulthood and citizenship a child/teen may be.

We disagree that anything or anyone is going to change that anytime soon.

I didn’t say anyone would change the metric, but a good analyst understands that those measures are not what should be used.

For example, average SAT score at Langley HS with very little poverty or at-risk students (less than 5%) is 1314 in 2022
(92nd-93rd percentile), while at Herndon HS with a high number of at-risk (FARMS) students (55%) is 1187 (80th percentile) still well above the average. Can you honestly say Langley is doing a great job based on these scores given its demographics? And can you say with a straight face that Herndon is a FAILING school (per some on DCUM) with that average score particularly with the number of at-risk students with presumably dragging down the average?

One could argue that Langley HS is underachieving and Herndon HS is overachieving.

Lewis HS — which has a similar number of at risk kids as Herndon HS (55%) AND uses IB — has an average SAT of 1063 (60th percentile). A lower average score but still NOT FAILING. This could likely be due to the use of IB versus AP.

South Lakes HS, which also has IB but fewer at risk students (35 percent) than Herndon or Lewis, has an average SAT score of 1205 similar to Herndon. However, one could argue it is also underperforming given it has IB like Lewis and fewer at risk kids than either Herndon or Lewis.

About 18% of West Springfield’s students are at risk. Its average SAT score is 1195 (81st percentile) which is very close to Herndon and South Lakes average scores. WSHS is underperforming compared to its neighbor Lewis HS given the IB and higher poverty. Seems WSHS parents would get a better bang for their buck at Herndon HS.



This was all back of the napkin using data from:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fairfax-county-sat-scores-continue-surpass-state-and-global-averages

https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108%3A8

https://research.collegeboard.org/reports/sat-suite/understanding-scores/sat

All this back and forth about not sending their kids to Lewis and that's the average SAT score? LMAO

So to prove that we shouldn’t use test scores, you are using test scores?

See the reason I don’t want to use them is because I think the kids themselves are more important than the tests. The relationships and built around neighborhoods, sports activities, parks and communities are what make a home for me.

I think my kids would be fine anywhere. I do think strong communities, businesses and keeping things local are better for everyone. That isn’t just reflected in test scores.

I am whole heartedly against traveling further, losing the ability to walk to my kids schools and/or uprooting my kids in the middle of their school careers precisely because i think the relationships they have built are more important than test scores.

Many people here DONT think their kid will be fine anywhere. That’s the issue.

Also, boundaries changes are on the edges. If you’re walking distance, you are 99% unlikely to have to switch to a different school.

And no, test score are not the only metric to look at. Again, people are arguing that they don’t want their children to go to failing schools, and the data shows that two of the schools regularly dumped on are not failing.

Which is why I think having Lewis and Herndon as smaller schools is beneficial for the kids there and should be looked at as a positive. Many places give smaller class sizes and extra staffing to Title 1 schools. Adding more kids into those schools won’t help anyone. It will help overall test score averages.

The only two high schools in FCPS that are Title I schools are Bryant (alternative HS) and Justice.

Also, class sizes aren’t smaller just because a high school’s total enrollment is lower.

Well that is sad, they are elligible according to the VDOE website. Why doesn’t FCPS apply for Lewis?

“Schools enrolling at least 40 percent of students from low-income families, or schools who have received a schoolwide eligibility waiver, are eligible to use Title I funds for schoolwide programs that are designed to upgrade their entire educational programs for all students, particularly the lowest-achieving students.”

I thought that is why people were upset about lack of “programming” there weren’t enough kids in a class?

I don't know but FCPS identifies the following as its Title I schools:

Annandale Terrace Elementary
Bailey's Elementary
Bailey's Upper Elementary
Beech Tree Elementary
Belvedere Elementary
Braddock Elementary
Bren Mar Park Elementary
Brookfield Elementary
Bryant High
Bucknell Elementary
Cameron Elementary
Centre Ridge Elementary
Clearview Elementary
Coates Elementary
Crestwood Elementary
Dogwood Elementary
Forestdale Elementary
Forest Edge Elementary
Garfield Elementary
Glasgow Middle School
Glen Forest Elementary
Graham Road Elementary
Groveton Elementary
Herndon Elementary
Hollin Meadows Elementary
Holmes Middle
Hutchison Elementary
Hybla Valley Elementary
Justice High
Key Middle
Lake Anne Elementary
London Towne Elementary
Lorton Station Elementary
Lynbrook Elementary
Mason Crest Elementary School
Mount Eagle Elementary
Mt. Vernon Woods Elementary
Parklawn Elementary
Pine Spring Elementary
Poe Middle
Providence Elementary
Riverside Elementary
Sleepy Hollow Elementary
Timber Lane Elementary
Washington Mill Elementary
Westlawn Elementary
Weyanoke Elementary
Woodburn Elementary
Woodlawn Elementary
Woodley Hills Elementary

[Anonymous]

I think of the other hidden costs with this drawn-out countywide boundary review will be teacher retention and recruiting.

If people think a school is going to get downsized to fill some vacant seats at another school, it seems they'll be less likely to take a position knowing that they could be among the first to go if a school has to reduce the size of its faculty or staff.

An 18-month period of uncertainty is not going to be a good thing for FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:55% are low income. Typically that means Title 1 services which give a lower teacher-student ratio. That is exactly what Lewis has so why add more kids unless they expect those kids to pump up test scores?

People are too obsessed with test scores. Don’t worry about the average or median score. It is meaningless if you have for example a center that pulls students from other schools or a large number of low SES or ESL students. Truly, the average and median scores tell you nothing about how good the school is.

Good luck changing that. Start with the new VDOE accreditation system, the. The FCPS school board ,and hit Redfin, Zillow and great schools next.

They push that narrative for marketing but doesn’t mean it is a good metric o evaluate a school. When you see an ad or commercial for a floor cleaner, and you see people ecstatic about cleaning just because they use that product and that it solves all their problems, do you believe you’ll be dancing through life if you use it?

Forgot to add old/new, the VDOE isn’t measuring the right things.

My friend, we agree test scores are a bad measure of a school or even how educated and ready for adulthood and citizenship a child/teen may be.

We disagree that anything or anyone is going to change that anytime soon.

I didn’t say anyone would change the metric, but a good analyst understands that those measures are not what should be used.

For example, average SAT score at Langley HS with very little poverty or at-risk students (less than 5%) is 1314 in 2022
(92nd-93rd percentile), while at Herndon HS with a high number of at-risk (FARMS) students (55%) is 1187 (80th percentile) still well above the average. Can you honestly say Langley is doing a great job based on these scores given its demographics? And can you say with a straight face that Herndon is a FAILING school (per some on DCUM) with that average score particularly with the number of at-risk students with presumably dragging down the average?

One could argue that Langley HS is underachieving and Herndon HS is overachieving.

Lewis HS — which has a similar number of at risk kids as Herndon HS (55%) AND uses IB — has an average SAT of 1063 (60th percentile). A lower average score but still NOT FAILING. This could likely be due to the use of IB versus AP.

South Lakes HS, which also has IB but fewer at risk students (35 percent) than Herndon or Lewis, has an average SAT score of 1205 similar to Herndon. However, one could argue it is also underperforming given it has IB like Lewis and fewer at risk kids than either Herndon or Lewis.

About 18% of West Springfield’s students are at risk. Its average SAT score is 1195 (81st percentile) which is very close to Herndon and South Lakes average scores. WSHS is underperforming compared to its neighbor Lewis HS given the IB and higher poverty. Seems WSHS parents would get a better bang for their buck at Herndon HS.



This was all back of the napkin using data from:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fairfax-county-sat-scores-continue-surpass-state-and-global-averages

https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108%3A8

https://research.collegeboard.org/reports/sat-suite/understanding-scores/sat

All this back and forth about not sending their kids to Lewis and that's the average SAT score? LMAO

So to prove that we shouldn’t use test scores, you are using test scores?

See the reason I don’t want to use them is because I think the kids themselves are more important than the tests. The relationships and built around neighborhoods, sports activities, parks and communities are what make a home for me.

I think my kids would be fine anywhere. I do think strong communities, businesses and keeping things local are better for everyone. That isn’t just reflected in test scores.

I am whole heartedly against traveling further, losing the ability to walk to my kids schools and/or uprooting my kids in the middle of their school careers precisely because i think the relationships they have built are more important than test scores.

Many people here DONT think their kid will be fine anywhere. That’s the issue.

Also, boundaries changes are on the edges. If you’re walking distance, you are 99% unlikely to have to switch to a different school.

And no, test score are not the only metric to look at. Again, people are arguing that they don’t want their children to go to failing schools, and the data shows that two of the schools regularly dumped on are not failing.

Which is why I think having Lewis and Herndon as smaller schools is beneficial for the kids there and should be looked at as a positive. Many places give smaller class sizes and extra staffing to Title 1 schools. Adding more kids into those schools won’t help anyone. It will help overall test score averages.

The only two high schools in FCPS that are Title I schools are Bryant (alternative HS) and Justice.

Also, class sizes aren’t smaller just because a high school’s total enrollment is lower.

Well that is sad, they are elligible according to the VDOE website. Why doesn’t FCPS apply for Lewis?

“Schools enrolling at least 40 percent of students from low-income families, or schools who have received a schoolwide eligibility waiver, are eligible to use Title I funds for schoolwide programs that are designed to upgrade their entire educational programs for all students, particularly the lowest-achieving students.”

I thought that is why people were upset about lack of “programming” there weren’t enough kids in a class?

I don't know but FCPS identifies the following as its Title I schools:

Annandale Terrace Elementary
Bailey's Elementary
Bailey's Upper Elementary
Beech Tree Elementary
Belvedere Elementary
Braddock Elementary
Bren Mar Park Elementary
Brookfield Elementary
Bryant High
Bucknell Elementary
Cameron Elementary
Centre Ridge Elementary
Clearview Elementary
Coates Elementary
Crestwood Elementary
Dogwood Elementary
Forestdale Elementary
Forest Edge Elementary
Garfield Elementary
Glasgow Middle School
Glen Forest Elementary
Graham Road Elementary
Groveton Elementary
Herndon Elementary
Hollin Meadows Elementary
Holmes Middle
Hutchison Elementary
Hybla Valley Elementary
Justice High
Key Middle
Lake Anne Elementary
London Towne Elementary
Lorton Station Elementary
Lynbrook Elementary
Mason Crest Elementary School
Mount Eagle Elementary
Mt. Vernon Woods Elementary
Parklawn Elementary
Pine Spring Elementary
Poe Middle
Providence Elementary
Riverside Elementary
Sleepy Hollow Elementary
Timber Lane Elementary
Washington Mill Elementary
Westlawn Elementary
Weyanoke Elementary
Woodburn Elementary
Woodlawn Elementary
Woodley Hills Elementary

I wonder if that list is out of date? Because my children are at Lewis, and I can assure you, it is a Title I school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:55% are low income. Typically that means Title 1 services which give a lower teacher-student ratio. That is exactly what Lewis has so why add more kids unless they expect those kids to pump up test scores?

People are too obsessed with test scores. Don’t worry about the average or median score. It is meaningless if you have for example a center that pulls students from other schools or a large number of low SES or ESL students. Truly, the average and median scores tell you nothing about how good the school is.

Good luck changing that. Start with the new VDOE accreditation system, the. The FCPS school board ,and hit Redfin, Zillow and great schools next.

They push that narrative for marketing but doesn’t mean it is a good metric o evaluate a school. When you see an ad or commercial for a floor cleaner, and you see people ecstatic about cleaning just because they use that product and that it solves all their problems, do you believe you’ll be dancing through life if you use it?

Forgot to add old/new, the VDOE isn’t measuring the right things.

My friend, we agree test scores are a bad measure of a school or even how educated and ready for adulthood and citizenship a child/teen may be.

We disagree that anything or anyone is going to change that anytime soon.

I didn’t say anyone would change the metric, but a good analyst understands that those measures are not what should be used.

For example, average SAT score at Langley HS with very little poverty or at-risk students (less than 5%) is 1314 in 2022
(92nd-93rd percentile), while at Herndon HS with a high number of at-risk (FARMS) students (55%) is 1187 (80th percentile) still well above the average. Can you honestly say Langley is doing a great job based on these scores given its demographics? And can you say with a straight face that Herndon is a FAILING school (per some on DCUM) with that average score particularly with the number of at-risk students with presumably dragging down the average?

One could argue that Langley HS is underachieving and Herndon HS is overachieving.

Lewis HS — which has a similar number of at risk kids as Herndon HS (55%) AND uses IB — has an average SAT of 1063 (60th percentile). A lower average score but still NOT FAILING. This could likely be due to the use of IB versus AP.

South Lakes HS, which also has IB but fewer at risk students (35 percent) than Herndon or Lewis, has an average SAT score of 1205 similar to Herndon. However, one could argue it is also underperforming given it has IB like Lewis and fewer at risk kids than either Herndon or Lewis.

About 18% of West Springfield’s students are at risk. Its average SAT score is 1195 (81st percentile) which is very close to Herndon and South Lakes average scores. WSHS is underperforming compared to its neighbor Lewis HS given the IB and higher poverty. Seems WSHS parents would get a better bang for their buck at Herndon HS.



This was all back of the napkin using data from:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fairfax-county-sat-scores-continue-surpass-state-and-global-averages

https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108%3A8

https://research.collegeboard.org/reports/sat-suite/understanding-scores/sat

All this back and forth about not sending their kids to Lewis and that's the average SAT score? LMAO

So to prove that we shouldn’t use test scores, you are using test scores?

See the reason I don’t want to use them is because I think the kids themselves are more important than the tests. The relationships and built around neighborhoods, sports activities, parks and communities are what make a home for me.

I think my kids would be fine anywhere. I do think strong communities, businesses and keeping things local are better for everyone. That isn’t just reflected in test scores.

I am whole heartedly against traveling further, losing the ability to walk to my kids schools and/or uprooting my kids in the middle of their school careers precisely because i think the relationships they have built are more important than test scores.

Many people here DONT think their kid will be fine anywhere. That’s the issue.

Also, boundaries changes are on the edges. If you’re walking distance, you are 99% unlikely to have to switch to a different school.

And no, test score are not the only metric to look at. Again, people are arguing that they don’t want their children to go to failing schools, and the data shows that two of the schools regularly dumped on are not failing.

Which is why I think having Lewis and Herndon as smaller schools is beneficial for the kids there and should be looked at as a positive. Many places give smaller class sizes and extra staffing to Title 1 schools. Adding more kids into those schools won’t help anyone. It will help overall test score averages.

The only two high schools in FCPS that are Title I schools are Bryant (alternative HS) and Justice.

Also, class sizes aren’t smaller just because a high school’s total enrollment is lower.

Well that is sad, they are elligible according to the VDOE website. Why doesn’t FCPS apply for Lewis?

“Schools enrolling at least 40 percent of students from low-income families, or schools who have received a schoolwide eligibility waiver, are eligible to use Title I funds for schoolwide programs that are designed to upgrade their entire educational programs for all students, particularly the lowest-achieving students.”

I thought that is why people were upset about lack of “programming” there weren’t enough kids in a class?

I don't know but FCPS identifies the following as its Title I schools:

Annandale Terrace Elementary
Bailey's Elementary
Bailey's Upper Elementary
Beech Tree Elementary
Belvedere Elementary
Braddock Elementary
Bren Mar Park Elementary
Brookfield Elementary
Bryant High
Bucknell Elementary
Cameron Elementary
Centre Ridge Elementary
Clearview Elementary
Coates Elementary
Crestwood Elementary
Dogwood Elementary
Forestdale Elementary
Forest Edge Elementary
Garfield Elementary
Glasgow Middle School
Glen Forest Elementary
Graham Road Elementary
Groveton Elementary
Herndon Elementary
Hollin Meadows Elementary
Holmes Middle
Hutchison Elementary
Hybla Valley Elementary
Justice High
Key Middle
Lake Anne Elementary
London Towne Elementary
Lorton Station Elementary
Lynbrook Elementary
Mason Crest Elementary School
Mount Eagle Elementary
Mt. Vernon Woods Elementary
Parklawn Elementary
Pine Spring Elementary
Poe Middle
Providence Elementary
Riverside Elementary
Sleepy Hollow Elementary
Timber Lane Elementary
Washington Mill Elementary
Westlawn Elementary
Weyanoke Elementary
Woodburn Elementary
Woodlawn Elementary
Woodley Hills Elementary

I wonder if that list is out of date? Because my children are at Lewis, and I can assure you, it is a Title I school.

'

This was the source: https://www.fcps.edu/about-fcps/leadership/district-performance-transparency/title-i-program#fcps-title-i-schools (see "List of Title I Schools").

The list of Title I schools is not dated, but of course that doesn't mean it's not out of date.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think of the other hidden costs with this drawn-out countywide boundary review will be teacher retention and recruiting.

If people think a school is going to get downsized to fill some vacant seats at another school, it seems they'll be less likely to take a position knowing that they could be among the first to go if a school has to reduce the size of its faculty or staff.

An 18-month period of uncertainty is not going to be a good thing for FCPS.

Agreed- I didn’t take a job this summer with FCPS because they can’t guarantee where I will be and I was going to swap less pay with FCPS with better commute from APS. I stayed.

[Anonymous]

I can guarantee you these practical issues never cross the mind of a Michelle Reid. She’s too busy thinking about how she can pitch all this as “transformational” and pretend everyone is going to “embrace change” and “imagine the possibilities.”

People want predictability and stability, not uncertainty and disruption. If they get that, they will put up with a lot of other BS. Take it away, and they aren’t so forgiving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it says a lot that this thread ended up just being about Langley when there are, what, 2 dozen high schools in the area?

Can we stop talking about this school and the republican parents association? Can we move on to other topics now?

I would like to talk about getting rid of AAP at the middle school level. It's completely unnecessary and redundant and a huge waste of money.

Something that will come up repeatedly in the regional meetings is the need for the School Board to make decisions about programs before the consultants starts coming up with boundary scenarios.

It’s not just AAP. Many would like to see AP at every high school so people aren’t redistricted into IB schools against their will.

Also whether they're planning on moving 6th grade to MS/SS.

This idea is so stupid, I can't believe they are even entertaining it.

Why is this stupid? It allows the advanced learners access to more advanced math earlier, not to mention the arts. It seems to work for pretty much the rest of the country, many of whom are surprised that FCPS still follows the junior high pattern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:55% are low income. Typically that means Title 1 services which give a lower teacher-student ratio. That is exactly what Lewis has so why add more kids unless they expect those kids to pump up test scores?

People are too obsessed with test scores. Don’t worry about the average or median score. It is meaningless if you have for example a center that pulls students from other schools or a large number of low SES or ESL students. Truly, the average and median scores tell you nothing about how good the school is.

Good luck changing that. Start with the new VDOE accreditation system, the. The FCPS school board ,and hit Redfin, Zillow and great schools next.

They push that narrative for marketing but doesn’t mean it is a good metric o evaluate a school. When you see an ad or commercial for a floor cleaner, and you see people ecstatic about cleaning just because they use that product and that it solves all their problems, do you believe you’ll be dancing through life if you use it?

Forgot to add old/new, the VDOE isn’t measuring the right things.

My friend, we agree test scores are a bad measure of a school or even how educated and ready for adulthood and citizenship a child/teen may be.

We disagree that anything or anyone is going to change that anytime soon.

I didn’t say anyone would change the metric, but a good analyst understands that those measures are not what should be used.

For example, average SAT score at Langley HS with very little poverty or at-risk students (less than 5%) is 1314 in 2022
(92nd-93rd percentile), while at Herndon HS with a high number of at-risk (FARMS) students (55%) is 1187 (80th percentile) still well above the average. Can you honestly say Langley is doing a great job based on these scores given its demographics? And can you say with a straight face that Herndon is a FAILING school (per some on DCUM) with that average score particularly with the number of at-risk students with presumably dragging down the average?

One could argue that Langley HS is underachieving and Herndon HS is overachieving.

Lewis HS — which has a similar number of at risk kids as Herndon HS (55%) AND uses IB — has an average SAT of 1063 (60th percentile). A lower average score but still NOT FAILING. This could likely be due to the use of IB versus AP.

South Lakes HS, which also has IB but fewer at risk students (35 percent) than Herndon or Lewis, has an average SAT score of 1205 similar to Herndon. However, one could argue it is also underperforming given it has IB like Lewis and fewer at risk kids than either Herndon or Lewis.

About 18% of West Springfield’s students are at risk. Its average SAT score is 1195 (81st percentile) which is very close to Herndon and South Lakes average scores. WSHS is underperforming compared to its neighbor Lewis HS given the IB and higher poverty. Seems WSHS parents would get a better bang for their buck at Herndon HS.



This was all back of the napkin using data from:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fairfax-county-sat-scores-continue-surpass-state-and-global-averages

https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108%3A8

https://research.collegeboard.org/reports/sat-suite/understanding-scores/sat

The numbers are actually even worse than this at Herndon because many of the lowest performers don’t take the SAT at all. The SAT participation rate is much higher at Langley than Herndon.

Tell us more. What’s WSHS’s excuse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think of the other hidden costs with this drawn-out countywide boundary review will be teacher retention and recruiting.

If people think a school is going to get downsized to fill some vacant seats at another school, it seems they'll be less likely to take a position knowing that they could be among the first to go if a school has to reduce the size of its faculty or staff.

An 18-month period of uncertainty is not going to be a good thing for FCPS.

+100. Changing schools, grade levels, or subjects is almost like being a first year teacher again in terms of workload.

[Anonymous]

Just to state the obvious, if you look at the complete mess that Michelle Reid and the School Board have made of the Hayfield recruiting scandal, which involves but ONE school, it is very obvious they cannot be trusted to undertake a “comprehensive” review of the boundaries of HUNDREDS of FCPS schools and come up with appropriate adjustments. They simply lack the competence to do it, and no one should expect anything but an even greater sh*t show to emerge from this unwelcome and unnecessary initiative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is going to create an entirely new administrative system full of hassles for a small group of 9th graders just to prevent Langley kids from being sent to Herndon.

Langley parents will use the money and connections. No Langley kids will move to Herndon schools. It will cost them too much social capital to let that happen.

Good! I was not looking forward to having to work the concession stand with a disgruntled ex-Langley parent anyway!

I really don’t want to deal with the insufferable Langley parents (‚cause those will be the ones we’re sent) at our school. I do hope they get hit by a large karma bus though.

It’s fascinating to see you so desire to move Forestville kids to your school pyramid and then hate them so much at the same time. Someone could write a dissertation on your cognitive dissonance.

H*ll no. I really do not want them at our school. Keep them in their pen.

Please let your school board rep know your feelings!

Thank you, I have. I truly hate the people over there. All we would here about is their children who poop unicorns and daisies being unable to cope at HHS while their SES peers at HHS run circles around them academically. We’d need to set up a nursery for those and their parents.

You don't believe that.

Neither that the upper middle class at Herndon is equal in net worth and income to Langley, nor that they are academically superior.

That's why you're so angry.

I promise you it's not that serious. Herndon is obviously a perfectly fine school academically and I hope you haven't embittered your children with this toxic inferiority complex.

DP but why do you think that just because a child happens to have wealthy parents and live in Great Falls, they are smarter than kids who have slightly less wealthy parents and live in Herndon? That's odd.

Your reading comprehension is poor or you are being willfully obtuse.

My assertion is that the poster does not believe that the upper economic end of the Herndon student population is at the same monetary level of Langley kids. That this poster does not believe that the upper economic end of Herndon "runs circles" academically around Langley children.

Nowhere did I state that moving to or being born in any particular zip code makes you brilliant or more brilliant than someone who has a little less money. I did not state that kids at Langley "run circles" around the middle class/upper middle class kids at Herndon. I'm quite sure that they are comparable in grades, SAT scores, accolades and college admits. My kids played youth sports with kids from Herndon, went/go to college with kids from Herndon High School. I have first-hand knowledge of the obvious.

That poster has a screaming inferiority complex and it's unhealthy. Whether children currently zoned for Langley end up putting on that black and red and become Hornets or remain Saxons, she would do well to address her mental issues. Like I said, it's NOT that serious. I would say the same on the flip side to those Great Falls residents--actually I HAVE said the same to a few--who think being zoned to Langley is a core part of their self-image and that they will just DIE if the boundaries change, even if done for a good reason.

If the boundaries change don't have a chip on your shoulder about the kids in the class or the fellow PTSA parents just because the government changed the neighborhoods/streets assigned to government schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:55% are low income. Typically that means Title 1 services which give a lower teacher-student ratio. That is exactly what Lewis has so why add more kids unless they expect those kids to pump up test scores?

People are too obsessed with test scores. Don’t worry about the average or median score. It is meaningless if you have for example a center that pulls students from other schools or a large number of low SES or ESL students. Truly, the average and median scores tell you nothing about how good the school is.

Good luck changing that. Start with the new VDOE accreditation system, the. The FCPS school board ,and hit Redfin, Zillow and great schools next.

They push that narrative for marketing but doesn’t mean it is a good metric o evaluate a school. When you see an ad or commercial for a floor cleaner, and you see people ecstatic about cleaning just because they use that product and that it solves all their problems, do you believe you’ll be dancing through life if you use it?

Forgot to add old/new, the VDOE isn’t measuring the right things.

My friend, we agree test scores are a bad measure of a school or even how educated and ready for adulthood and citizenship a child/teen may be.

We disagree that anything or anyone is going to change that anytime soon.

I didn’t say anyone would change the metric, but a good analyst understands that those measures are not what should be used.

For example, average SAT score at Langley HS with very little poverty or at-risk students (less than 5%) is 1314 in 2022
(92nd-93rd percentile), while at Herndon HS with a high number of at-risk (FARMS) students (55%) is 1187 (80th percentile) still well above the average. Can you honestly say Langley is doing a great job based on these scores given its demographics? And can you say with a straight face that Herndon is a FAILING school (per some on DCUM) with that average score particularly with the number of at-risk students with presumably dragging down the average?

One could argue that Langley HS is underachieving and Herndon HS is overachieving.

Lewis HS — which has a similar number of at risk kids as Herndon HS (55%) AND uses IB — has an average SAT of 1063 (60th percentile). A lower average score but still NOT FAILING. This could likely be due to the use of IB versus AP.

South Lakes HS, which also has IB but fewer at risk students (35 percent) than Herndon or Lewis, has an average SAT score of 1205 similar to Herndon. However, one could argue it is also underperforming given it has IB like Lewis and fewer at risk kids than either Herndon or Lewis.

About 18% of West Springfield’s students are at risk. Its average SAT score is 1195 (81st percentile) which is very close to Herndon and South Lakes average scores. WSHS is underperforming compared to its neighbor Lewis HS given the IB and higher poverty. Seems WSHS parents would get a better bang for their buck at Herndon HS.



This was all back of the napkin using data from:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fairfax-county-sat-scores-continue-surpass-state-and-global-averages

https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108%3A8

https://research.collegeboard.org/reports/sat-suite/understanding-scores/sat

Great, now let’s hear about the student safety and incident data from Langley vs. Lewis. VDOE hides it now because they don’t want parents to know what is really going on at some of these schools.

+1
SAT scores are the least of my concerns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:55% are low income. Typically that means Title 1 services which give a lower teacher-student ratio. That is exactly what Lewis has so why add more kids unless they expect those kids to pump up test scores?

People are too obsessed with test scores. Don’t worry about the average or median score. It is meaningless if you have for example a center that pulls students from other schools or a large number of low SES or ESL students. Truly, the average and median scores tell you nothing about how good the school is.

Good luck changing that. Start with the new VDOE accreditation system, the. The FCPS school board ,and hit Redfin, Zillow and great schools next.

They push that narrative for marketing but doesn’t mean it is a good metric o evaluate a school. When you see an ad or commercial for a floor cleaner, and you see people ecstatic about cleaning just because they use that product and that it solves all their problems, do you believe you’ll be dancing through life if you use it?

Forgot to add old/new, the VDOE isn’t measuring the right things.

My friend, we agree test scores are a bad measure of a school or even how educated and ready for adulthood and citizenship a child/teen may be.

We disagree that anything or anyone is going to change that anytime soon.

I didn’t say anyone would change the metric, but a good analyst understands that those measures are not what should be used.

For example, average SAT score at Langley HS with very little poverty or at-risk students (less than 5%) is 1314 in 2022
(92nd-93rd percentile), while at Herndon HS with a high number of at-risk (FARMS) students (55%) is 1187 (80th percentile) still well above the average. Can you honestly say Langley is doing a great job based on these scores given its demographics? And can you say with a straight face that Herndon is a FAILING school (per some on DCUM) with that average score particularly with the number of at-risk students with presumably dragging down the average?

One could argue that Langley HS is underachieving and Herndon HS is overachieving.

Lewis HS — which has a similar number of at risk kids as Herndon HS (55%) AND uses IB — has an average SAT of 1063 (60th percentile). A lower average score but still NOT FAILING. This could likely be due to the use of IB versus AP.

South Lakes HS, which also has IB but fewer at risk students (35 percent) than Herndon or Lewis, has an average SAT score of 1205 similar to Herndon. However, one could argue it is also underperforming given it has IB like Lewis and fewer at risk kids than either Herndon or Lewis.

About 18% of West Springfield’s students are at risk. Its average SAT score is 1195 (81st percentile) which is very close to Herndon and South Lakes average scores. WSHS is underperforming compared to its neighbor Lewis HS given the IB and higher poverty. Seems WSHS parents would get a better bang for their buck at Herndon HS.



This was all back of the napkin using data from:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fairfax-county-sat-scores-continue-surpass-state-and-global-averages

https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108%3A8

https://research.collegeboard.org/reports/sat-suite/understanding-scores/sat

Every student doesn’t take the SAT. Those who’d get the worst scores wouldn’t.

If ten kids out of a thousand take the SAT at high school A, and their average score is 1350

While 600 out of a thousand take the test at high school B and their average is 1280

Guess which school I’d wanna send my kids to?