Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read multiple comments on Fox News and 80% say that Trump should not have said anything other than offering condolences, this is not even sitting right with his base.

I think he can’t hold back at all due to dementia. My personal opinion.

I agree. He made that tacky comment about praying for souls before they announced no survivors and keeps saying things that show he’s not putting 1 and 1 together.

You mean 2 and 2?

Let’s start with 1 and 1. If he can do that, we’ll move on to 2 and 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that the NSA is giving press interviews in front of the white house regarding the incident says a lot about the unspoken mission of the helicopter. Not the SecDef, not some Army general. The NSA.

Do you have a link to the interview?

There were 64 VIPs on board to their family and friends.

+1. AND no one has said there were not VIPs on board prior to the stop at Langley.

Yep! And I do not believe someone with just 500 hours of training would be flying close to CIA HQ for training purposes.

500 hours is considered well qualified. average for the position. this per Fox News.
There was an instructor on board with 1000 hours, which is very well qualified. Probably the voice we heard. Seemed like an older white guy.

1,000 hours is NOT a lot for a mid-career pilot, and certainly not an instructor pilot. 500 hrs is definitely not “well-qualified”. Typical Fox News getting it wrong again. The pilots flying the local TV news choppers in DC that you see traffic reports from typically have 6,000+ plus hours. The pilot in Baltimore for Channel 11 has almost 20,000 hours. So a thousand hours is pretty low.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump is belligerent even with the easiest questions:

“Trump said he would meet with some of the families affected by the crash. Asked by reporters whether he would visit the collision site, Trump responded: “What’s the site? The water? You want me to go swimming? I don’t have a plan to do that, but I will be meeting with some people that were very badly hurt — with their family member, obviously.””

—WaPo

Can’t believe someone was dumb enough to actually ask him to visit the collision site. He should’ve said oh You mean in the middle of the sky?

These are softball questions. Obviously the reporter meant the site of the recovery efforts. the "collision site" can encompass the entire area, not simply the point in space where the aircraft collided.

But more to the point, this is an opportunity for him to praise the first responders, explain the importance of the effort to recover information that will help us find out what happened and how to prevent it from happening again, and once again express condolences to the families. In other words, an easy opportunity to look/be presidential.

But he's a nasty POS with a personality disorder, so instead he's unnecessarily combative.

+1. So exhausting.

I hate Giuliani but look at how great he did after 9/11 with seeming like a caring human being. The fact that a politician who was elected oresdent can’t at least fake this is truly shocking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:someone posted above that the McLean address was the Saudi Embassy. So just affiliated with it?

Saudis own a lot of property in McLean. Doesn’t mean it is the embassy though.
I heard they own several properties off of Chain Bridge and overlooking the Potomac too.

If you start researching, you’ll see a lot of foreign people own houses around here and some remain empty for years as in Potomac.

[Anonymous]

Knowing people on the plane, I want to get all you ghouls to be quiet. If you have any interest in understanding the actual events, this video is a completely apolitical analysis of the flights by someone highly respected in the industry for accident analysis.

https://youtu.be/_3gD_lnBNu0?si=aYBclsfvNdb1ZM83

I don’t even have the energy to get into how despicable the statements by the commander in chief are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great pilot analysis. He seems fairly confident the Helo simply had the wrong airplane in sight. Literally did not see the other plane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfgllf1L9_4

If true it's really hard to understand how they don't see the airplane right in front of them, both on radar and visually. Like I understand what this guy is saying and I assume he knows more than I do about what it's like in the air, but when you look at the radar and see the video footage, it's hard to make sense of because the plane is *right there.*

What is the reason they might not be looking at radar to see the closer plane? There are two pilots and a crew chief on the helicopter. Surely one of them would be in charge of checking radar especially while flying through that particular corridor knowing there will be planes taking off and landing from National. I don't get it.

It also raises the question of whether the night vision goggles they were wearing for training purposes obscured their vision to the degree that it made it more likely they would not see the closer jet and would think the area closer to them was clear. If that's the case, I'm sorry, but this is 100% on the DoD for permitting that kind of training flight near a very busy urban airport. Like completely unacceptable. I understand why an Army pilot would need training with night vision goggles but there is no reason why that should be done in an area where it could jeopardize civilian lives in that way.

So if this is the explanation, it honestly raises more questions than it answers. IMO.

I see what you are saying. But the Helo pilot acknowledges at least twice (maybe 3 times?) that he sses the aircraft and assumes responsibility for visual separation. So he's either a terrible judge of distance and incorrectly thought he would clear the plane, OR was focuses on creating visual deparation from a completely different plane.

It’s confirmation bias. When your brain thinks you’ve seen “the thing” it stops looking for other things, even if your eyes are on the sky/screen/whathaveyou.

We teach our residents “what do you look for after you see a fracture?” (on X-ray or CT, whatever). The answer is “the second fracture”.

I’ve seen people miss some crazy sh!t bc their eyes and brain are looking at what they think the pathology is, and they’re completely blind to the other issue that’s literally right there.

We take a lot of our error reduction education from the aviation industry, or at least try to. Pilots are better than we are at acknowledging the propensity for human error (probably bc a lot of us doctors are @ssholes).

We cleared our incoming space last night for a mass casualty event in prep for what we hoped were survivors. Awful when no one came.

This might make sense if there was one pilot on the helicopter. There were two plus a crew chief. You're telling me that three people collectively assumed the CRJ they were told was there by air traffic control was the one *behind* the jet they were about to run into, and not one of them at any point looked at the radar or just out the front of the helicopter and said 'whoa actually there's a plane right in front of us'?

It strains credulity.

MD from upthread. I’m not telling you anything about why this particular tragedy happened. I’m saying I also work in a high stress profession with lives on the line and have two decades of experience. And in that time I’ve seen the wrong side operated on, the wrong family informed their loved one was dead, the wrong med given (to fatal effect).

People really want to believe in the infallibility of both systems, and themselves. And truthfully, it’s a wonder things go as right as they do, as often as they do. Because when they go wrong, they go really wrong, as evidenced here.

+1. Another MD. If you have a less exigent profession, think about the number of times you have forgotten to send an email, printed out the wrong document, sent a text to the wrong person. Now imagine that it results in death. For those of you who say, well, people in those type of jobs shouldn’t be trying to do two things at once, they should be focused because lives are at stake, that is true. But when every moment is “on”, it’s genuinely impossible for a human being to maintain perfect focus for 60-80 hours a week.

I have also seen many medical mistakes that you wouldn’t think an 6th grader capable of, and the bottom line for the study of iatrogenesis is that you can never count on perfect human decision making. You have to design systems that guide humans to make good decisions and implement redundancies that protect patients and their caretakers. And even then, there is always a leak. And you run up against the harm of delay and inefficiency. In the air, there are fewer people to ask for help and time is short.

I can see that some posters know a lot about aviation, and I am not one of them. I do know that it is far more complicated and nuanced than I can imagine. I don’t think we can overestimate how disorienting it is to be in 3d space. And how unreliable your depth perception is without landmarks like trees and landforms. Planes have collided into mountains, they have stalled out and dropped into the ocean despite warnings of “stall stall stall” being broadcast at the pilots. Read some aviation and military forums and you will see a type of attitude that you also see in medicine - Sh&t happened. Someone messed up. We will study the causes, but it won’t be the last tragedy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRnk_ycXYQI

This posits when runway was changed was ATC error that sent plane into helo route.

A helo route almost double the normal ceiling??

The diagram shows the plane swinging out to line up for the newly assigned runway. If they were parallel, height would not have mattered. If you have flown into DCA there are often helicopters close and parallel. Sending flight to that new runway would have been fine but helicopter was on that route. ATC only asked repeatedly if had plane in view, did not direct more maneuverable helicopter to pull up, turn left, anything that would have changed the trajectory or say a crash was imminent.

Aviate. Navigate. Communicate.

The helo crew failed the first two. They failed to take action to avoid a collision despite seeing the jet at least two minutes prior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:someone posted above that the McLean address was the Saudi Embassy. So just affiliated with it?

It’s owned by the embassy but not the actual embassy.

They probably own the house to lend out to staff who come here to live. My friend’s family lived in embassy houses their country owned. One was in McLean and had a ballroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that the NSA is giving press interviews in front of the white house regarding the incident says a lot about the unspoken mission of the helicopter. Not the SecDef, not some Army general. The NSA.

Do you have a link to the interview?

On Reddit, the helicopter was noted as being above or at an address in McLean just outside Langley HQ.

Saud royalty, from what I’ve heard locally

Yes. The full address of the house is on Reddit. I did not see a screen grab from flight trackers that looks legit so I am not sure…

The concensus of this address, which does indeed belong to a Saudi affiliate, is that all helicopters turn off their transponders when in/near CIA (for privacy and security reasons). They then turn them back on when they've left the property, which could be variable given their flight path and if they're going by mileage or time or their own judgement. So what is most likely is that their transponder started recording again over this residence. Not that they took off from it.

Probably true, but what are the chances it would be the Saudi Embassy. This is how conspiracy stories thrive. What the F are the chances......

Also, why is the Saudi Embassy so close to the CIA?

Every flight probably crosses some embassy's property. This is DC.

I thought the evidence is that the Helo location STARTED at this embassy affiliated location. No?

The Saudi house MIGHT be where the helo transponder was turned back on after being turned off at the CIA. So it LOOKS like the helo started from the house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump is belligerent even with the easiest questions:

“Trump said he would meet with some of the families affected by the crash. Asked by reporters whether he would visit the collision site, Trump responded: “What’s the site? The water? You want me to go swimming? I don’t have a plan to do that, but I will be meeting with some people that were very badly hurt — with their family member, obviously.””

—WaPo

Can’t believe someone was dumb enough to actually ask him to visit the collision site. He should’ve said oh You mean in the middle of the sky?

It is a funny question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump is belligerent even with the easiest questions:

“Trump said he would meet with some of the families affected by the crash. Asked by reporters whether he would visit the collision site, Trump responded: “What’s the site? The water? You want me to go swimming? I don’t have a plan to do that, but I will be meeting with some people that were very badly hurt — with their family member, obviously.””

—WaPo

Can’t believe someone was dumb enough to actually ask him to visit the collision site. He should’ve said oh You mean in the middle of the sky?

He said “yes, I’m going to go measure 400 ft above the water and compare it to 200 feet above the water.”

[Anonymous]

Co-president musk is cricket, he is usually very quick to comment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump is belligerent even with the easiest questions:

“Trump said he would meet with some of the families affected by the crash. Asked by reporters whether he would visit the collision site, Trump responded: “What’s the site? The water? You want me to go swimming? I don’t have a plan to do that, but I will be meeting with some people that were very badly hurt — with their family member, obviously.””

—WaPo

Can’t believe someone was dumb enough to actually ask him to visit the collision site. He should’ve said oh You mean in the middle of the sky?

God. How literal are you? He could visit a dock or harbor nearby and say a few words. Lordy. But the wind would ruin his hair so he can’t do that.

[Anonymous]

Someone must have said to Trump -- "Bro, what if it turns out the white guy is to blame."

Because in later interviews he said DEI "could" have been a factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s vote. How many people think the investigation will focus only on DEI hires in ATC?

I doubt we will know what happened last night. Only that DEI is too blame.

Was the ATC a woman? I’m sure she already feels awful and is near suicidal and I’m also sure that the Triumpers will say awful things.

The voices on the recording sounded male.