Another gunman, another elementary school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Change, however unlikely, will only come at a cost: extended periods of mass demonstrations. Calling your reps daily.

Can we do a twofer?

Ban guns, not abortions.

Sounds good to me! I can see it on tshirts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
In a normal country an open door would not cost 21 humans their lives within minutes.

In a deranged society where guns matter more than people I guess it could though.

+100

It's stupid to blame the open door for this.

Did you know in other countries they don't lock doors? And they also don't have active shooter drills.

My child was raised in America and I was mortified that starting the age of 5 she had to practice to hide from people to shoot her. How is this normalized in our society?
She grew up with a notion that she may be shot at any minute. How is this normal?!!

What? Without an open door it would have been more difficult to obtain entry to the school. In other words, obtaining entry would have taken time he didn’t really have after crashing the truck a losing the element of surprise. Not impossible, but still more difficult and potentially allowing the school to take some lockdown measures and exposing him to discovery by law enforcement. Police were on scene while he remained in the parking lot and a locked entrances would have been ideal for taking him down. He had no training or discipline and was in panic mode, shooting rounds randomly at those who witnessed the crash and the school. I have no doubt the teacher will suffer guilt for years to come but there are reasons for safety protocols. And I’m sorry their need to get a phone trumped training snd common sense, particularly if the school had been tied to a conspiracy to commit murder in recent years.

“Element of surprise”?!

Jesus Christ, I can’t believe it is now completely normalized that we all need to be hyper vigilant to armed shooters at all times so they don’t get “the element of surprise”. WTF has happened to this country. No other developed country thinks this is normal.

The problem is guns.

My kids attended elementary school less than a mile from the US Capitol. We lived through Sandy Hook. We lived through a mass shooting nearby at the navy Yard. We lived through the dozens of other school shootings. The school is locked down periodically due to a suspicious package or an incident at the Capitol Complex, which happen with greater frequency than you might otherwise expect. Sometimes you need to think about difficult things. And trust that police have the training to protect your children should the need arise.

I do not understand the point that you are making PP...are you saying that since you have to deal with the threat of an active shooter routinely, its okay? That its just a normal part of life?

And no, the police rarely give me comfort on anything, given that I'm not white. Glad you take comfort in their expertise to protect your children from weapons of destruction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Typo:

WE had the "good guys with guns" -- and the DID NOT stop the bad guy with a gun.

I'm pretty sure he was stopped (i.e., killed) by a good guy with a gun, but understand your point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Typo:

WE had the "good guys with guns" -- and the DID NOT stop the bad guy with a gun.

I'm pretty sure he was stopped (i.e., killed) by a good guy with a gun, but understand your point.

Not the PP, but I think they’re referring to the argument that civilians need to have access to guns to protect themselves from the bad guys with guns. This is the common conservative argument - that bad guys will get guns anyway, so everybody needs to have easy access for protection.

But what they’re finding is the easier it is to get guns, the more deaths there are. Arming civilians clearly isn’t working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Typo:

WE had the "good guys with guns" -- and the DID NOT stop the bad guy with a gun.

I'm pretty sure he was stopped (i.e., killed) by a good guy with a gun, but understand your point.

Unforunately that "good guy with a gun" took over an hour to arrive - meanwhie the cowards with guns just stood there and played with their d*cks while children died.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a former small Western county attorney, I am unsurprised by the failures of the local cops in this situation. This is aside from whether our cops should ever have to face perpetrators armed with weapons of war. This incident highlights a root reason why we have problems in policing in this country - so many of our law enforcement are woefully undertrained and untested. Other developed countries require years of education before putting law enforcement officers on the street, but in many American jurisdictions, they have as little as a 40 hour training and in some cases they are allowed 12 months of working before having to complete that training. 40 HOURS. The stylist who colors your hair has much more training.

We need police reform in America. We need educated well trained cops.

I don't want to draw attention away from the gun control issue -- which the primary issue and the alpha-omega of this problem. But I agree that training and recruitment of law enforcement is also a huge problem. People keep saying to put more armed security at doors -- who do they think is going to do that? The police departments can't get people into their academy classes. Instead of trying to weed out the officers who are substandard, they are begging for anyone to stay, because they do not have enough people to cover shifts. Officers that are there are being forced to work OT they don't want, and are retiring as soon as they can, or even leaving valuable pensions on the table because they can't stand it anymore. The big city departments pay better and offer better benefits, so they will generally attract better recruits -- but even they can't find people, so I can't imagine the small town departments are doing better. The lack of gun control is one big factor -- who wants to do this job knowing that any depressed kid can be armed like an guerilla army?
I also continue to have questions about chain of command decisions here, and whether the 911 operators were feeding hte police the information about continued incoming calls from children who were still alive in the classrooms.

I don't know - maybe we can pay people more in this profession? Just.as with teachers, offer more money. Then you will have more candidates, and you can also weed out the lazy and incompetent and ignorant. Require years of rigorous training. Right now, we get the bottom of the barrel in both these professions because we don't value them.

Although, agreed - even the best trained PO is not going to stand a chance against an AR 15.

Why wouldn't a trained PO with equivalent firepower not stand a chance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a former small Western county attorney, I am unsurprised by the failures of the local cops in this situation. This is aside from whether our cops should ever have to face perpetrators armed with weapons of war. This incident highlights a root reason why we have problems in policing in this country - so many of our law enforcement are woefully undertrained and untested. Other developed countries require years of education before putting law enforcement officers on the street, but in many American jurisdictions, they have as little as a 40 hour training and in some cases they are allowed 12 months of working before having to complete that training. 40 HOURS. The stylist who colors your hair has much more training.

We need police reform in America. We need educated well trained cops.

I don't want to draw attention away from the gun control issue -- which the primary issue and the alpha-omega of this problem. But I agree that training and recruitment of law enforcement is also a huge problem. People keep saying to put more armed security at doors -- who do they think is going to do that? The police departments can't get people into their academy classes. Instead of trying to weed out the officers who are substandard, they are begging for anyone to stay, because they do not have enough people to cover shifts. Officers that are there are being forced to work OT they don't want, and are retiring as soon as they can, or even leaving valuable pensions on the table because they can't stand it anymore. The big city departments pay better and offer better benefits, so they will generally attract better recruits -- but even they can't find people, so I can't imagine the small town departments are doing better. The lack of gun control is one big factor -- who wants to do this job knowing that any depressed kid can be armed like an guerilla army?
I also continue to have questions about chain of command decisions here, and whether the 911 operators were feeding hte police the information about continued incoming calls from children who were still alive in the classrooms.

I don't know - maybe we can pay people more in this profession? Just.as with teachers, offer more money. Then you will have more candidates, and you can also weed out the lazy and incompetent and ignorant. Require years of rigorous training. Right now, we get the bottom of the barrel in both these professions because we don't value them.

Although, agreed - even the best trained PO is not going to stand a chance against an AR 15.

Why wouldn't a trained PO with equivalent firepower not stand a chance?

You want guards with AR 15s in schools? Yikes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a former small Western county attorney, I am unsurprised by the failures of the local cops in this situation. This is aside from whether our cops should ever have to face perpetrators armed with weapons of war. This incident highlights a root reason why we have problems in policing in this country - so many of our law enforcement are woefully undertrained and untested. Other developed countries require years of education before putting law enforcement officers on the street, but in many American jurisdictions, they have as little as a 40 hour training and in some cases they are allowed 12 months of working before having to complete that training. 40 HOURS. The stylist who colors your hair has much more training.

We need police reform in America. We need educated well trained cops.

I don't want to draw attention away from the gun control issue -- which the primary issue and the alpha-omega of this problem. But I agree that training and recruitment of law enforcement is also a huge problem. People keep saying to put more armed security at doors -- who do they think is going to do that? The police departments can't get people into their academy classes. Instead of trying to weed out the officers who are substandard, they are begging for anyone to stay, because they do not have enough people to cover shifts. Officers that are there are being forced to work OT they don't want, and are retiring as soon as they can, or even leaving valuable pensions on the table because they can't stand it anymore. The big city departments pay better and offer better benefits, so they will generally attract better recruits -- but even they can't find people, so I can't imagine the small town departments are doing better. The lack of gun control is one big factor -- who wants to do this job knowing that any depressed kid can be armed like an guerilla army?
I also continue to have questions about chain of command decisions here, and whether the 911 operators were feeding hte police the information about continued incoming calls from children who were still alive in the classrooms.

I don't know - maybe we can pay people more in this profession? Just.as with teachers, offer more money. Then you will have more candidates, and you can also weed out the lazy and incompetent and ignorant. Require years of rigorous training. Right now, we get the bottom of the barrel in both these professions because we don't value them.

Although, agreed - even the best trained PO is not going to stand a chance against an AR 15.

Why wouldn't a trained PO with equivalent firepower not stand a chance?

You want guards with AR 15s in schools? Yikes.

You want dead kids instead? Gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a former small Western county attorney, I am unsurprised by the failures of the local cops in this situation. This is aside from whether our cops should ever have to face perpetrators armed with weapons of war. This incident highlights a root reason why we have problems in policing in this country - so many of our law enforcement are woefully undertrained and untested. Other developed countries require years of education before putting law enforcement officers on the street, but in many American jurisdictions, they have as little as a 40 hour training and in some cases they are allowed 12 months of working before having to complete that training. 40 HOURS. The stylist who colors your hair has much more training.

We need police reform in America. We need educated well trained cops.

I don't want to draw attention away from the gun control issue -- which the primary issue and the alpha-omega of this problem. But I agree that training and recruitment of law enforcement is also a huge problem. People keep saying to put more armed security at doors -- who do they think is going to do that? The police departments can't get people into their academy classes. Instead of trying to weed out the officers who are substandard, they are begging for anyone to stay, because they do not have enough people to cover shifts. Officers that are there are being forced to work OT they don't want, and are retiring as soon as they can, or even leaving valuable pensions on the table because they can't stand it anymore. The big city departments pay better and offer better benefits, so they will generally attract better recruits -- but even they can't find people, so I can't imagine the small town departments are doing better. The lack of gun control is one big factor -- who wants to do this job knowing that any depressed kid can be armed like an guerilla army?
I also continue to have questions about chain of command decisions here, and whether the 911 operators were feeding hte police the information about continued incoming calls from children who were still alive in the classrooms.

I don't know - maybe we can pay people more in this profession? Just.as with teachers, offer more money. Then you will have more candidates, and you can also weed out the lazy and incompetent and ignorant. Require years of rigorous training. Right now, we get the bottom of the barrel in both these professions because we don't value them.

Although, agreed - even the best trained PO is not going to stand a chance against an AR 15.

Why wouldn't a trained PO with equivalent firepower not stand a chance?

You want guards with AR 15s in schools? Yikes.

You want dead kids instead? Gross.

I don’t. Which is why I support gun reform. Not turning our country into Sudan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Typo:

WE had the "good guys with guns" -- and the DID NOT stop the bad guy with a gun.

I'm pretty sure he was stopped (i.e., killed) by a good guy with a gun, but understand your point.

Unforunately that "good guy with a gun" took over an hour to arrive - meanwhie the cowards with guns just stood there and played with their d*cks while children died.

The "good guys" with guns just stood around doing nothing -- and some were even holding back the parents who had guns (at least one grabbed one at the barber shop he was at, he was a CPB guy off duty).

The point is that arming people doesn't solve all problems b/c sometimes you actually have to have courage PLUS a gun. Which obviously didn't exist for the first hour. I'm just totally sick about this. I can not imagine how raw the rage must be for the parents -- especially of the girl who called 911 (and others) -- little Amerie. My god. She's taking mature action to get help over and over -- and no one is coming? Total cowards. I would go insane on them if that happened to my 10 yr old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Typo:

WE had the "good guys with guns" -- and the DID NOT stop the bad guy with a gun.

I'm pretty sure he was stopped (i.e., killed) by a good guy with a gun, but understand your point.

Unforunately that "good guy with a gun" took over an hour to arrive - meanwhie the cowards with guns just stood there and played with their d*cks while children died.

Oh, yeah? And where were the brave armed Texans that were supposed to protect from bad guys with guns. Texas has more guns than any other state probably. Where were they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
In a normal country an open door would not cost 21 humans their lives within minutes.

In a deranged society where guns matter more than people I guess it could though.

+100

It's stupid to blame the open door for this.

Did you know in other countries they don't lock doors? And they also don't have active shooter drills.

My child was raised in America and I was mortified that starting the age of 5 she had to practice to hide from people to shoot her. How is this normalized in our society?
She grew up with a notion that she may be shot at any minute. How is this normal?!!

What? Without an open door it would have been more difficult to obtain entry to the school. In other words, obtaining entry would have taken time he didn’t really have after crashing the truck a losing the element of surprise. Not impossible, but still more difficult and potentially allowing the school to take some lockdown measures and exposing him to discovery by law enforcement. Police were on scene while he remained in the parking lot and a locked entrances would have been ideal for taking him down. He had no training or discipline and was in panic mode, shooting rounds randomly at those who witnessed the crash and the school. I have no doubt the teacher will suffer guilt for years to come but there are reasons for safety protocols. And I’m sorry their need to get a phone trumped training snd common sense, particularly if the school had been tied to a conspiracy to commit murder in recent years.

“Element of surprise”?!

Jesus Christ, I can’t believe it is now completely normalized that we all need to be hyper vigilant to armed shooters at all times so they don’t get “the element of surprise”. WTF has happened to this country. No other developed country thinks this is normal.

The problem is guns.

My kids attended elementary school less than a mile from the US Capitol. We lived through Sandy Hook. We lived through a mass shooting nearby at the navy Yard. We lived through the dozens of other school shootings. The school is locked down periodically due to a suspicious package or an incident at the Capitol Complex, which happen with greater frequency than you might otherwise expect. Sometimes you need to think about difficult things. And trust that police have the training to protect your children should the need arise.

I do not understand the point that you are making PP...are you saying that since you have to deal with the threat of an active shooter routinely, its okay? That its just a normal part of life?

And no, the police rarely give me comfort on anything, given that I'm not white. Glad you take comfort in their expertise to protect your children from weapons of destruction.

I was responding to someone who remarked about noting shooters trying to leverage the element of surprise. The fact is that we all need to be situationally aware. Some more so than others. It’s sad. It’s sometimes infuriating. But it’s reality. Our children’s lives depend upon it.

You need to look at your school’s security posture each time you visit. Is there a video monitoring system? Is the SRO a trained LEO or unarmed security guard? Are any teachers armed? What types of classroom locks are used? Are emergency exit doors secured, monitored and alarmed? Is there a secured entry system? Are there shades or coverings for doors with glass inserts? How frequently are drills conducted? What are children instructed to do during a drill? Are they taught to run, hide and fight? If they have a phone, do they understand to turn off the ringer and communicate with 9-1-1 by text?

Our child was in kindergarten when Newtown took place. They were terrified when they began to understand the purpose of lockdown drills conducted in coordination with a pre-planned police response. But they need to know exactly what to do and how vitally important it is. Kids are incredibly smart snd get it. You don’t have to like it. But you have to do it:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a former small Western county attorney, I am unsurprised by the failures of the local cops in this situation. This is aside from whether our cops should ever have to face perpetrators armed with weapons of war. This incident highlights a root reason why we have problems in policing in this country - so many of our law enforcement are woefully undertrained and untested. Other developed countries require years of education before putting law enforcement officers on the street, but in many American jurisdictions, they have as little as a 40 hour training and in some cases they are allowed 12 months of working before having to complete that training. 40 HOURS. The stylist who colors your hair has much more training.

We need police reform in America. We need educated well trained cops.

I don't want to draw attention away from the gun control issue -- which the primary issue and the alpha-omega of this problem. But I agree that training and recruitment of law enforcement is also a huge problem. People keep saying to put more armed security at doors -- who do they think is going to do that? The police departments can't get people into their academy classes. Instead of trying to weed out the officers who are substandard, they are begging for anyone to stay, because they do not have enough people to cover shifts. Officers that are there are being forced to work OT they don't want, and are retiring as soon as they can, or even leaving valuable pensions on the table because they can't stand it anymore. The big city departments pay better and offer better benefits, so they will generally attract better recruits -- but even they can't find people, so I can't imagine the small town departments are doing better. The lack of gun control is one big factor -- who wants to do this job knowing that any depressed kid can be armed like an guerilla army?
I also continue to have questions about chain of command decisions here, and whether the 911 operators were feeding hte police the information about continued incoming calls from children who were still alive in the classrooms.

I don't know - maybe we can pay people more in this profession? Just.as with teachers, offer more money. Then you will have more candidates, and you can also weed out the lazy and incompetent and ignorant. Require years of rigorous training. Right now, we get the bottom of the barrel in both these professions because we don't value them.

Although, agreed - even the best trained PO is not going to stand a chance against an AR 15.

Why wouldn't a trained PO with equivalent firepower not stand a chance?

You want guards with AR 15s in schools? Yikes.

You want dead kids instead? Gross.

I don’t. Which is why I support gun reform. Not turning our country into Sudan.

+1

I don't want ANY guns at schools. Good guys or bad guys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a former small Western county attorney, I am unsurprised by the failures of the local cops in this situation. This is aside from whether our cops should ever have to face perpetrators armed with weapons of war. This incident highlights a root reason why we have problems in policing in this country - so many of our law enforcement are woefully undertrained and untested. Other developed countries require years of education before putting law enforcement officers on the street, but in many American jurisdictions, they have as little as a 40 hour training and in some cases they are allowed 12 months of working before having to complete that training. 40 HOURS. The stylist who colors your hair has much more training.

We need police reform in America. We need educated well trained cops.

I don't want to draw attention away from the gun control issue -- which the primary issue and the alpha-omega of this problem. But I agree that training and recruitment of law enforcement is also a huge problem. People keep saying to put more armed security at doors -- who do they think is going to do that? The police departments can't get people into their academy classes. Instead of trying to weed out the officers who are substandard, they are begging for anyone to stay, because they do not have enough people to cover shifts. Officers that are there are being forced to work OT they don't want, and are retiring as soon as they can, or even leaving valuable pensions on the table because they can't stand it anymore. The big city departments pay better and offer better benefits, so they will generally attract better recruits -- but even they can't find people, so I can't imagine the small town departments are doing better. The lack of gun control is one big factor -- who wants to do this job knowing that any depressed kid can be armed like an guerilla army?
I also continue to have questions about chain of command decisions here, and whether the 911 operators were feeding hte police the information about continued incoming calls from children who were still alive in the classrooms.

I don't know - maybe we can pay people more in this profession? Just.as with teachers, offer more money. Then you will have more candidates, and you can also weed out the lazy and incompetent and ignorant. Require years of rigorous training. Right now, we get the bottom of the barrel in both these professions because we don't value them.

Although, agreed - even the best trained PO is not going to stand a chance against an AR 15.

Why wouldn't a trained PO with equivalent firepower not stand a chance?

You want guards with AR 15s in schools? Yikes.

You want dead kids instead? Gross.

I don’t. Which is why I support gun reform. Not turning our country into Sudan.

Rainbow unicorns that fart candy would be nice too.

[Anonymous]

Holy shiït Abbot is a total utter a$$. News conference now. He is horrifyingly ignorant.