Another gunman, another elementary school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a former small Western county attorney, I am unsurprised by the failures of the local cops in this situation. This is aside from whether our cops should ever have to face perpetrators armed with weapons of war. This incident highlights a root reason why we have problems in policing in this country - so many of our law enforcement are woefully undertrained and untested. Other developed countries require years of education before putting law enforcement officers on the street, but in many American jurisdictions, they have as little as a 40 hour training and in some cases they are allowed 12 months of working before having to complete that training. 40 HOURS. The stylist who colors your hair has much more training.

We need police reform in America. We need educated well trained cops.

I don't want to draw attention away from the gun control issue -- which the primary issue and the alpha-omega of this problem. But I agree that training and recruitment of law enforcement is also a huge problem. People keep saying to put more armed security at doors -- who do they think is going to do that? The police departments can't get people into their academy classes. Instead of trying to weed out the officers who are substandard, they are begging for anyone to stay, because they do not have enough people to cover shifts. Officers that are there are being forced to work OT they don't want, and are retiring as soon as they can, or even leaving valuable pensions on the table because they can't stand it anymore. The big city departments pay better and offer better benefits, so they will generally attract better recruits -- but even they can't find people, so I can't imagine the small town departments are doing better. The lack of gun control is one big factor -- who wants to do this job knowing that any depressed kid can be armed like an guerilla army?
I also continue to have questions about chain of command decisions here, and whether the 911 operators were feeding hte police the information about continued incoming calls from children who were still alive in the classrooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re a nation of cowards - that much is clear - and I’m sick of it.

When will you applying for a position as a LEO? Or maybe Seal Team 6 is more your speed?

I mean all of us are cowards. The entire population for not standing up for more firearm restrictions in light of the fact that gun related death is now the number one killer of children.

And yes, the Texas cops are fricking cowards. And yes, I served in combat so F off.

+1.

[Anonymous]

If the police are afraid to engage a shooter with an AR-15 because “they might get shot” then let’s stop allowing people to buy AR 15’s. They fact that they were unwilling to go in says EVERYTHING.

[Anonymous]

Change, however unlikely, will only come at a cost: extended periods of mass demonstrations. Calling your reps daily.

[Anonymous]

It is so horrifying that police let so many children die.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the police are afraid to engage a shooter with an AR-15 because “they might get shot” then let’s stop allowing people to buy AR 15’s. They fact that they were unwilling to go in says EVERYTHING.

Police have seen what a high velocity full metal jacket round does to flesh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the police are afraid to engage a shooter with an AR-15 because “they might get shot” then let’s stop allowing people to buy AR 15’s. They fact that they were unwilling to go in says EVERYTHING.

Police have seen what a high velocity full metal jacket round does to flesh.

Sounds like a good reason to ban them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the police are afraid to engage a shooter with an AR-15 because “they might get shot” then let’s stop allowing people to buy AR 15’s. They fact that they were unwilling to go in says EVERYTHING.

Yes. I’m unwilling to get shot by an AR-15. My kids are also unwilling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Change, however unlikely, will only come at a cost: extended periods of mass demonstrations. Calling your reps daily.

Can we do a twofer?

Ban guns, not abortions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, standing down has become popular, but mighty deadly. Perhaps rethink that nonsense.

Commander on the scene determined it was a "barricaded subject" situation and not an "active shooter" situation. This led to the stand down. In hindsight, it was the wrong call and contributed to additional loss of life.

Yes, it was a wrong call. Obviously. In a heated situation that happened quickly and I have sympathy for that person who screwed up and must feel beyond terrible.

But what didn't happen quickly was the gradual relaxation of gun control restrictions such that an 18 year old can easily go into a shop and buy two AR platform rifles 2 days after his 18th birthday. This is society's fault for letting guns proliferate like candy such that anyone can access them without any sort of background check or licensing.

Wrong call? That sounds like bs.

Witnesses saw the gunman shoot people outside and go inside the school with the gun, then they were hearing shots coming from inside the school - the parents standing there confirmed. What part of that does not indicate "active shooter" situation?

That's just lies to cover their cowardice.

+1. The DPS guy said they believed the shooter was barricaded in and the children were safe and that's why they decided not to go in immediately. That wasn't a wrong call. That was objectively WRONG because they didn't have all the kids out of the school or otherwise accounted for. I don't need any level of law enforcement training to tell me that. That's just common sense.

Not only can I not believe this decision was made at all, I can't believe 19 police officers STOOD IN THE HALLWAY for 40 minutes and did absolutely nothing to help the kids. WTH?

I agree with you completely, but I don’t think he said they thought all kids were safe. I think he said they thought no kids were at risk. I interpreted that to mean, they thought everyone was dead already. He was stuck in the classroom and they were waiting for who knows what to evacuate the other kids.

The whole “we thought all the kids were dead” thing is clearly BS, considering that kids made multiple 911 calls from the room, begging the police to come in.

+1

A Republican cop lying? Shocker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Change, however unlikely, will only come at a cost: extended periods of mass demonstrations. Calling your reps daily.

Can we do a twofer?

Ban guns, not abortions.

Sure. But one off concerts/marches such as after MSD aren’t enough. It requires a communications/messaging strategy. It has to be sustained. It requires commitment and sacrifice. It needs to backing of religious groups. Not message board posting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the police are afraid to engage a shooter with an AR-15 because “they might get shot” then let’s stop allowing people to buy AR 15’s. They fact that they were unwilling to go in says EVERYTHING.

Police have seen what a high velocity full metal jacket round does to flesh.

Sounds like a good reason to ban them.

To be fair, most of law enforcement has been vociferously in favor of the assault weapons ban all along for this very reason - they are OUTGUNNED. The Texas law enforcement community objected to recent loosening of Texas gun laws but Abbott went ahead with them anyway. On the issue of our streets being awash in guns, law enforcement is generally on the right side - they don’t want it anymore than we do and it partly explains why some of them are so trigger happy because they do in fact live in fear of what they might encounter on the streets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a former small Western county attorney, I am unsurprised by the failures of the local cops in this situation. This is aside from whether our cops should ever have to face perpetrators armed with weapons of war. This incident highlights a root reason why we have problems in policing in this country - so many of our law enforcement are woefully undertrained and untested. Other developed countries require years of education before putting law enforcement officers on the street, but in many American jurisdictions, they have as little as a 40 hour training and in some cases they are allowed 12 months of working before having to complete that training. 40 HOURS. The stylist who colors your hair has much more training.

We need police reform in America. We need educated well trained cops.

I don't want to draw attention away from the gun control issue -- which the primary issue and the alpha-omega of this problem. But I agree that training and recruitment of law enforcement is also a huge problem. People keep saying to put more armed security at doors -- who do they think is going to do that? The police departments can't get people into their academy classes. Instead of trying to weed out the officers who are substandard, they are begging for anyone to stay, because they do not have enough people to cover shifts. Officers that are there are being forced to work OT they don't want, and are retiring as soon as they can, or even leaving valuable pensions on the table because they can't stand it anymore. The big city departments pay better and offer better benefits, so they will generally attract better recruits -- but even they can't find people, so I can't imagine the small town departments are doing better. The lack of gun control is one big factor -- who wants to do this job knowing that any depressed kid can be armed like an guerilla army?
I also continue to have questions about chain of command decisions here, and whether the 911 operators were feeding hte police the information about continued incoming calls from children who were still alive in the classrooms.

I don't know - maybe we can pay people more in this profession? Just.as with teachers, offer more money. Then you will have more candidates, and you can also weed out the lazy and incompetent and ignorant. Require years of rigorous training. Right now, we get the bottom of the barrel in both these professions because we don't value them.

Although, agreed - even the best trained PO is not going to stand a chance against an AR 15.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the police are afraid to engage a shooter with an AR-15 because “they might get shot” then let’s stop allowing people to buy AR 15’s. They fact that they were unwilling to go in says EVERYTHING.

Yep!

I had the "good guys with guns" --- and looky looky .... they DID NOT stop a bad guy with a gun. So, case closed on that trope.

[Anonymous]

Typo:

WE had the "good guys with guns" -- and the DID NOT stop the bad guy with a gun.