White cops harass and pepper spray Black Army Lieutenant in Windsor, VA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you ever driven on this particular stretch of Rt 460? Windsor VA is part of the well known Windsor-Wakefield-Waverly danger zone between Suffolk VA and Petersburg VA. The speed goes down quickly from 55 to 25 with each town. Speed traps are known. Sometimes even the old school cruiser-hiding-behind-a-low-sign routine.

There's also a lot of tractor trailer traffic between distribution centers and access to 95/85 and the port.

It's not surprising that this happened where it did but I find it notable that it had nothing to due with speed considering the normal speed issues in this area.

Thank you! This is a huge part of the story. I travel through there frequently to get to the OBX. It’s a well known speed trap. I see lots of soldiers in uniform drive it a lot as 460 is the “military highway” between the coast and Ft Lee so these officers should recognize the uniform.

I always thought Windsor was on the old town constable system where they have one police officer, he is the chief, and actual investigations are left to the state police.

Windsor is a well known speed trap. The speed at one place goes illogically from 45 to 25 and I can discern no good reason for it.

I’m also a retired police officer with years in patrol, investigations, training, and supervision. This was a bad stop. My department also would have had someone 100 lbs over weight in a non contact position until he regains his height/weight requirement. There was no reason to not tell the Lt. why he was being stopped. The OC was excessive. The overweight one over reacted because he was not confident he could physically handle the motorist if the motorist physically resisted. The overweight one’s grip on his firearm...WTF? Did he get arms training from a 1980’s movie? All the gangsters used to hold them like that. I can see no reason he demanded the motorist lie prone on the ground for a fairly routine traffic stop, especially after they saw the paper license plate.

I’m interested in how this plays out. I intend to fly through Windsor next weekend as I think there will be no cops on duty.

[Anonymous]

I hope their badges are stripped.

An officer in uniform driving his own vehicle with no reason for being stopped or harassed, let alone weapons drawn.

[Anonymous]

It's a little bit upsetting to me that a lot of people's issue with this is that he was a uniformed military officer. I personally don't see how that has much to do with why this is wrong. No one should be treated this way, uniform or not. Think of all the men out there dealing with this who don't have the protection of a uniform! They deserve to be treated with respect too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:law enforcement PP here. I think people are confused about this -- as I said the stop starts off fine. The loud old cop is not doing a good job but nothing is illegal or improper. The problem starts at the deployment of the agent. That is not called for and is not a judgement call. Guy is not aggressive, has his seatbelt on, and is sounding like someone who is scared to be shot. Also he is in uniform. The deployment of the agent here would be wrong under any policy. It is also a constitutional violation as it is an unreasonable search and seizure. Everything from this point is wrong. So it starts ok but the use of the spray is the problem. Not okay anywhere under the facts that we see.

Why didn't the detainment end once they saw the tag under the lights? They get to investigate. Is it real? Is the window too tinted? Why did the guy drive away? All could be innocent but there is nothing wrong with the stop itself.
Why didn't they provide the reason for the stop? They should have but they would likely say trying to get control then talk. In fact young one said that. They are not handling this right but not illegal or improper.
Why were guns raised and pointed? Safety for the officers. Judgement call. Also depends on training of each department. Not improper per se. You could see gun in holster or by side after seeing both the tag and the uniform. But in the end not outside of what would be proper.
Why did the cop tell him he should be afraid and he'd ride the lightning? This will get the guy fired. Can't say that.

None of that is improper?

Appreciate your replies. Not trying to be a jerk, but this is confusing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you ever driven on this particular stretch of Rt 460? Windsor VA is part of the well known Windsor-Wakefield-Waverly danger zone between Suffolk VA and Petersburg VA. The speed goes down quickly from 55 to 25 with each town. Speed traps are known. Sometimes even the old school cruiser-hiding-behind-a-low-sign routine.

There's also a lot of tractor trailer traffic between distribution centers and access to 95/85 and the port.

It's not surprising that this happened where it did but I find it notable that it had nothing to due with speed considering the normal speed issues in this area.

Thank you! This is a huge part of the story. I travel through there frequently to get to the OBX. It’s a well known speed trap. I see lots of soldiers in uniform drive it a lot as 460 is the “military highway” between the coast and Ft Lee so these officers should recognize the uniform.

I always thought Windsor was on the old town constable system where they have one police officer, he is the chief, and actual investigations are left to the state police.

Windsor is a well known speed trap. The speed at one place goes illogically from 45 to 25 and I can discern no good reason for it.

I’m also a retired police officer with years in patrol, investigations, training, and supervision. This was a bad stop. My department also would have had someone 100 lbs over weight in a non contact position until he regains his height/weight requirement. There was no reason to not tell the Lt. why he was being stopped. The OC was excessive. The overweight one over reacted because he was not confident he could physically handle the motorist if the motorist physically resisted. The overweight one’s grip on his firearm...WTF? Did he get arms training from a 1980’s movie? All the gangsters used to hold them like that. I can see no reason he demanded the motorist lie prone on the ground for a fairly routine traffic stop, especially after they saw the paper license plate.

I’m interested in how this plays out. I intend to fly through Windsor next weekend as I think there will be no cops on duty.

Thank you for your service as a police officer and for drilling your experiential reasoning as to why these two cops acted badly to all those commenters who are siding with the two cops. These commenters make me think that they never bought and drove a car with temporary license plates in the back windshield of the car!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a little bit upsetting to me that a lot of people's issue with this is that he was a uniformed military officer. I personally don't see how that has much to do with why this is wrong. No one should be treated this way, uniform or not. Think of all the men out there dealing with this who don't have the protection of a uniform! They deserve to be treated with respect too.

Two scenarios. You pull over that car and young male in some sort of gang attire or markings (could be black, latino, or white) in there or you pull over that car and there is an 85 year old grandmother in there. You would approach those stops the same? Most cops would be slightly and only slightly comforted by the uniform. Not the full 85 year old but closer to that than the other. Does not mean you let your guard down or give up position or control but it does impact where you go and how you go.

[Anonymous]

I haven’t seen anyone comment on the fact that the police officer called the driver “son.” I don’t see how anyone can say the cops weren’t being racist considering their actions and comments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a little bit upsetting to me that a lot of people's issue with this is that he was a uniformed military officer. I personally don't see how that has much to do with why this is wrong. No one should be treated this way, uniform or not. Think of all the men out there dealing with this who don't have the protection of a uniform! They deserve to be treated with respect too.

Two scenarios. You pull over that car and young male in some sort of gang attire or markings (could be black, latino, or white) in there or you pull over that car and there is an 85 year old grandmother in there. You would approach those stops the same? Most cops would be slightly and only slightly comforted by the uniform. Not the full 85 year old but closer to that than the other. Does not mean you let your guard down or give up position or control but it does impact where you go and how you go.

What is "gang attire"? And you can feel whatever the f you want, all of those people have the same rights, and all of those people are due respectful and professional treatment from police officers until and unless they provide a good reason otherwise. The way someone looks is not justification for treating them like an animal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a little bit upsetting to me that a lot of people's issue with this is that he was a uniformed military officer. I personally don't see how that has much to do with why this is wrong. No one should be treated this way, uniform or not. Think of all the men out there dealing with this who don't have the protection of a uniform! They deserve to be treated with respect too.

Two scenarios. You pull over that car and young male in some sort of gang attire or markings (could be black, latino, or white) in there or you pull over that car and there is an 85 year old grandmother in there. You would approach those stops the same? Most cops would be slightly and only slightly comforted by the uniform. Not the full 85 year old but closer to that than the other. Does not mean you let your guard down or give up position or control but it does impact where you go and how you go.

YES! Yes, you should, FFS.

[Anonymous]

Glad this young man is getting the respect and support he deserves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a little bit upsetting to me that a lot of people's issue with this is that he was a uniformed military officer. I personally don't see how that has much to do with why this is wrong. No one should be treated this way, uniform or not. Think of all the men out there dealing with this who don't have the protection of a uniform! They deserve to be treated with respect too.

Of course not, but the Blue Lives Matter crew made such a stink about Colin K taking a knee and how disrespectful it was to the military, only to turn around support two white cops when they unnecessarily pepper spray an Army medic officer in uniform.

That proves that it wasn't about the military it was just about putting a black man (and anyone who supported him) in their place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a little bit upsetting to me that a lot of people's issue with this is that he was a uniformed military officer. I personally don't see how that has much to do with why this is wrong. No one should be treated this way, uniform or not. Think of all the men out there dealing with this who don't have the protection of a uniform! They deserve to be treated with respect too.

Of course not, but the Blue Lives Matter crew made such a stink about Colin K taking a knee and how disrespectful it was to the military, only to turn around support two white cops when they unnecessarily pepper spray an Army medic officer in uniform.

That proves that it wasn't about the military it was just about putting a black man (and anyone who supported him) in their place.

Well, FOX NEWS talking heads, their guests, most of GOP and its supporters showed how much they truly care about the country, its flag, democracy, the armed forces, and the law enforcement since Jan 6. The entire world has seen it live at least on Jan 6.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a little bit upsetting to me that a lot of people's issue with this is that he was a uniformed military officer. I personally don't see how that has much to do with why this is wrong. No one should be treated this way, uniform or not. Think of all the men out there dealing with this who don't have the protection of a uniform! They deserve to be treated with respect too.

Of course not, but the Blue Lives Matter crew made such a stink about Colin K taking a knee and how disrespectful it was to the military, only to turn around support two white cops when they unnecessarily pepper spray an Army medic officer in uniform.

That proves that it wasn't about the military it was just about putting a black man (and anyone who supported him) in their place.

Well, FOX NEWS talking heads, their guests, most of GOP and its supporters showed how much they truly care about the country, its flag, democracy, the armed forces, and the law enforcement since Jan 6. The entire world has seen it live at least on Jan 6.

Nothing signifies the Trump era more than his supporters beating a law enforcement officer with an American flag and parading the Confederate flag through Congress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you ever driven on this particular stretch of Rt 460? Windsor VA is part of the well known Windsor-Wakefield-Waverly danger zone between Suffolk VA and Petersburg VA. The speed goes down quickly from 55 to 25 with each town. Speed traps are known. Sometimes even the old school cruiser-hiding-behind-a-low-sign routine.

There's also a lot of tractor trailer traffic between distribution centers and access to 95/85 and the port.

It's not surprising that this happened where it did but I find it notable that it had nothing to due with speed considering the normal speed issues in this area.

Thank you! This is a huge part of the story. I travel through there frequently to get to the OBX. It’s a well known speed trap. I see lots of soldiers in uniform drive it a lot as 460 is the “military highway” between the coast and Ft Lee so these officers should recognize the uniform.

I always thought Windsor was on the old town constable system where they have one police officer, he is the chief, and actual investigations are left to the state police.

Windsor is a well known speed trap. The speed at one place goes illogically from 45 to 25 and I can discern no good reason for it.

I’m also a retired police officer with years in patrol, investigations, training, and supervision. This was a bad stop. My department also would have had someone 100 lbs over weight in a non contact position until he regains his height/weight requirement. There was no reason to not tell the Lt. why he was being stopped. The OC was excessive. The overweight one over reacted because he was not confident he could physically handle the motorist if the motorist physically resisted. The overweight one’s grip on his firearm...WTF? Did he get arms training from a 1980’s movie? All the gangsters used to hold them like that. I can see no reason he demanded the motorist lie prone on the ground for a fairly routine traffic stop, especially after they saw the paper license plate.

I’m interested in how this plays out. I intend to fly through Windsor next weekend as I think there will be no cops on duty.

Another point to make, knowing this stretch of 460 - there is NO shoulder. There is nowhere safe to pull over except into a parking lot or business so if it were me and the same night time scenario I too would drive on to the next lighted business.

Not sure what the LT did but I would reduce speed and put on my flashers to give the police behind me a hint so they didn't think I was evading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This idiot failed repeatedly to follow basic commands. The cops did sctew up at times ny giving conflicting commands.

He was pepper sprayed while calmly sitting in his car, with his hands outside the window, just after asking why he was being detained. That is indefensible.

He had been sitting there arguing with the cops for a good long while by that point.

He had every opportunity to not be an idiot, and at each decision point chose idiot.

If you don't want a tense confrontation with the cops, obey directions, don't argue, don't resist.

Was the smart thing to reach to his waist and unbuckle his seatbelt? I would be scared. At least with his hands out of the car, he made sure he was not a threat.

They never even bothered to tell him why they were pulling him over. If they had, he could say "there's a license plate in my window."

Like someone else said, Philando Castile did that and he's dead.

Yes, since they were telling him to do that. Imagine if he had just announced he was undoing his seat belt, done so, opened the door, and gotten out slowly with his hands in view. It isn't complicated nor difficult.

Arguing with the cops is stupid.

You don't know what they think they are doing. You may be innocent. Maybe the cops have the wrong guy...but if the guy they are looking for just shot some people, they are going to be ready for the worst.

So lose the attitude. Don't play lawyer and tell the cops what they are allowed to direct you to do. (Especially when you are wrong. ) Don't argue. Don't resist them.

Just do as directed, slowly, and keep your hands in view.

Like someone else said, Philando Castile did that and he's dead.