How is your gifted kid doing at a lower-ranked college?

[Anonymous]

Honestly, I feel there have been a few troll threads on the College Forum recently, and this is one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, regardless of grades and scores, I think your DD can find a college where students value the sorts of thing your DD does. You just have to spend some time looking for particular qualities, and not just at the most elite schools.

One resource I found helpful was reading reviews of individual schools at Unigo.com. Even if there are just a few reviews, I feel that I can get a decent feel for the school.

For example, I looked at the same question for two different schools often recommended on DCUM: "Are there intellectual conversations?" (listed under "Campus Topics"). At School A, 8% of respondents said "we save it for the classroom," and 34% said "Sometimes, but not often," so 42% total for those two lower categories. At School B, no students said "we save it for the classroom," and only 8% said "Sometimes, but not often." In contrast, 76% said "There's usually intelligent conversation to be found." and 16% said "All the time, including weekends." So students at School B seem much more engaged intellectually outside of classes.

Looking further at the stats, I see that School A is "more selective" (42% accepted) while School B is "selective," (74% accepted). Your DD might have a better shot at School B, AND it might be a better fit if she's looking for peers interested in intellectual discussions outside of class.

Yes, the surveys only include some students, so use due diligence. But I think reading about schools--of all selectivity levels--can help you and your DD identify schools where she can find "her people" and be challenged intellectually.

OR... what school B students count as intellectual conversations isn’t on the same plane as what students from school A consider to be intellectual conversations...
See, completely meaningless, PP. don’t waste your time.

Do you not accept that different schools are different? School A: 46% say Greek life is "everything," while School B has no Greek life. Still indistinguishable to you?

No, I’m saying school A could still be way more intellectual than school B, based on your description.

Sigh.

Let me make this simpler so you understand- School A: 95% say Engineering is a top priority. School B: 11% say Engineering is top priority. Which school do you think is better with Engineering? I’ll wait.

That's not the same scenario you laid out in the first example. It's astonishing you can't see that.

To be fair, I gave the first two College A/College B scenarios (from real Unigo responses), and someone else chimed in to help prove my point. I still stand by my advice: read reviews and comments from real students about what life is like at different schools. Different schools attract different students. Different schools have different social life. Different schools have different levels of interest in intellectual discussions outside of class. One way of finding the differences is to see what the students say.

[Anonymous]

I made it through about six pages of this thread and a bunch of women insisting that the kid they don't know isn't really gifted and the mother is a terrible parent for not spending 5k on an evaluation, or is lying about having an evaluation, before throwing up my hands.

So, okay, here is the deal. IMHO.

Your daughter sounds awesome. She sounds a bit like mine and a bit like me. I realize that at least in dcurbanmom-land all children are above average, get straight a's, and are well-rounded, always happy, and extremely well-adjusted?

But that world sounds awful. Your daughter would probably be happy at Bard or Beloit or Bennington. Reed. Grinnell. Oberlin. Sarah Lawrence. Maybe St John's if she'd like a classical education. If you want a state school, go for St Mary's in MD. There are many SLACs that cater to real kids with actual interests. Don't sweat it. Ap's ARE stupid. It's a lot more fun to take classes in college, than in high school... why miss out on that?

Grades are so inflated and at this point completely class-driven. They don't mean that much. Just focus on having her find her interests and pursue them. The rest will follow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If she's at a "good Public" as you say, then she probably does have a weighted GPA which you aren't telling us. Only the top 3 privates are unweighted. How many AP courses has she taken? What ECs does she have? How did she get so far in the system without an I.Q. test (schools do them routinely, as they do SOLs). What will her teacher recommendations say?

Yale picks kids with 4.8s, 1600 SATs, perfect SAT II subject matter tests (yes being phased out here but you can still take them abroad thru June of this year); national honors; huge community service like Eagle Scout; Team sports and school leadership positions which demonstrate your kid can get along with others and LEAD, which it sounds like she can't. That could be a real problem. What will her teachers say in their letters of recommendation? Will her counselor check off the "most rigorous" box?

Yale accepted Naomi Wolf.

I would like you to all take a look at her twitter feed lately and get back to me about their intellectual rigor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD is a junior, and her only options for college are in-state because of our family's financial situation. She has a 3.88 at a good public high school, one sport, no ECs to speak of. She hates high school with a passion, thinks it's idiotic, all her classes are stupid, hates the administration and its crazy rules and incompetence, etc. She does the work because her friends do it, but she has no enthusiasm for school at all.

She went to CTY at Johns Hopkins for three summers, where she really blossomed. She told me recently those were the happiest weeks of her life. Her CTY teachers said she was "exceptional" and "outstanding."

I'm not bragging, I'm worried. I fear she'll be unhappy and unchallenged in college. We can't afford to send her to a CTY-like top college. If you have a similarly gifted kid who went to a lower-ranked college, how did s/he do? Did your child find a peer group? Were the classes interesting/challenging enough? Any advice most appreciated.

Yikes. My take on this is that she wants to be at a small school where she is coddled and babied. If she hates school and has no enthusiasm for it then she really should think about alternatives. Frankly your report of her attending CTY doesn't ring true. It is more likely she attended some summer programs but without going through the rigorous testing and vetting process because a 3.88 is not a GT grade point average to be proud of. I think you need to look at small schools. She may do better at someplace like one of the Colleges That Change Lives.

What is wrong with you?
“3.88 is not a GT grade point average to be proud of.”

What would ever motivate you to say this? OP posted this out of humility, candor, and what seems to be a fair representation of her daughter....and um MANY teenagers feel the exact same way. If you don’t have helpful advice, why both criticizing her and casting “suspicion” on her post? It seems you need to look inward instead of trying to shame OP, geez

I will be very proud if my 2e kid gets a weighted 3.88, or an unweighted one. I don't think that's a reflection on her lesser academic ability, just a reflection on where her focus lies. Why does she need a perfect math grade? Why can't she occasionally bomb a test? Those things are learning experiences. Learning is something we do for its own sake.

It's so funny, listening to the way grades are discussed here. My sister in law went to Cambridge after almost flunking a few classes in high school... But she got top marks on her entrance exams, and in her field of study. Seems like a better way to live.

[Anonymous]

A 3.88 unweighted is a good GPA. It is something to be proud of.

[Anonymous]

I have many friends who rave about St. Mary's College of Maryland. One friend from Bethesda said her son had only 3 classes in one of his senior seminar classes and has thrived on all the personal attention. It's somewhat lower-ranked (#80 on US News overall and 5th best public liberal arts college in the US) but appears to have great professors and lots of semesters away options (in D.C. and abroad).
https://www.smcm.edu/washingtonprogram/
https://www.smcm.edu/ie/ways-to-study-abroad/
I will have my three kids (all in MCPS middle school and high school magnets) look at it when the time comes just because so many families are pleased with it.
https://www.smcm.edu/
University of Maryland Baltimore County was #11 on US News' best undergrad teaching list, just under Stanford. I have heard fewer personal anecdotes about this school.
Lots of good options are available that are not in the top 50 in rankings but still great fits for bright kids who tested into magnet programs throughout their educational careers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I made it through about six pages of this thread and a bunch of women insisting that the kid they don't know isn't really gifted and the mother is a terrible parent for not spending 5k on an evaluation, or is lying about having an evaluation, before throwing up my hands.

So, okay, here is the deal. IMHO.

Your daughter sounds awesome. She sounds a bit like mine and a bit like me. I realize that at least in dcurbanmom-land all children are above average, get straight a's, and are well-rounded, always happy, and extremely well-adjusted?

But that world sounds awful. Your daughter would probably be happy at Bard or Beloit or Bennington. Reed. Grinnell. Oberlin. Sarah Lawrence. Maybe St John's if she'd like a classical education. If you want a state school, go for St Mary's in MD. There are many SLACs that cater to real kids with actual interests. Don't sweat it. Ap's ARE stupid. It's a lot more fun to take classes in college, than in high school... why miss out on that?

Grades are so inflated and at this point completely class-driven. They don't mean that much. Just focus on having her find her interests and pursue them. The rest will follow.

You forgot, "Since she doesn't have straight A's, she probably has inattentive ADHD. Shame on you for not insisting on that diagnosis and not medicating her."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She should look at liberal arts colleges that give merit aid. You might be able to get close to what the state schools cost and she could have smaller classes.

I second this. We don't qualify for FA, and DC applied to (among other schools) a couple of less selective SLACs with history of good merit aid. The cost to attend these schools is equivalent to in-state, and I have no doubt that DC would get a fine education at either one. Get a book from the library and create a spreadsheet. It will take a little time, but it will pay off for your daughter. Sounds like she will excel at a SLAC.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

I think OP would be best served by trying to adjust what is an "elite" college. I went to a LAC that ranks in the 40s on the USNWR liberal arts college rankings. They give tons of merit aid (I had a full tuition scholarship), have good honors programs, and send some people on to great grad schools. You can find schools like that where the cost will be competitive with, or better than, state schools for a student like this (a good SAT would have helped in the past, but I guess not right now). These places can be engaging environments for bright students who are looking for that, and most classes are discussion driven and small.

Strong state schools can be like that, too, there's just more people to sort through to find the ones to engage with. And it will take longer to get to the smaller, discussion classes.

But you have think beyond HYP, or Amherst, Swarthmore, Williams, etc. That's okay. There are plenty of good schools out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think OP would be best served by trying to adjust what is an "elite" college. I went to a LAC that ranks in the 40s on the USNWR liberal arts college rankings. They give tons of merit aid (I had a full tuition scholarship), have good honors programs, and send some people on to great grad schools. You can find schools like that where the cost will be competitive with, or better than, state schools for a student like this (a good SAT would have helped in the past, but I guess not right now). These places can be engaging environments for bright students who are looking for that, and most classes are discussion driven and small.

Strong state schools can be like that, too, there's just more people to sort through to find the ones to engage with. And it will take longer to get to the smaller, discussion classes.

But you have think beyond HYP, or Amherst, Swarthmore, Williams, etc. That's okay. There are plenty of good schools out there.

Sounds like a great place to be. Mind sharing the name of the school? How did this experience help you with your career PP, and what do you do for a living now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she's at a "good Public" as you say, then she probably does have a weighted GPA which you aren't telling us. Only the top 3 privates are unweighted. How many AP courses has she taken? What ECs does she have? How did she get so far in the system without an I.Q. test (schools do them routinely, as they do SOLs). What will her teacher recommendations say?

Yale picks kids with 4.8s, 1600 SATs, perfect SAT II subject matter tests (yes being phased out here but you can still take them abroad thru June of this year); national honors; huge community service like Eagle Scout; Team sports and school leadership positions which demonstrate your kid can get along with others and LEAD, which it sounds like she can't. That could be a real problem. What will her teachers say in their letters of recommendation? Will her counselor check off the "most rigorous" box?

Yale accepted Naomi Wolf.

I would like you to all take a look at her twitter feed lately and get back to me about their intellectual rigor.

Indicting a university for the twenty first century conduct of a single 1984 graduate is an example of the fallacy of composition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I made it through about six pages of this thread and a bunch of women insisting that the kid they don't know isn't really gifted and the mother is a terrible parent for not spending 5k on an evaluation, or is lying about having an evaluation, before throwing up my hands.

So, okay, here is the deal. IMHO.

Your daughter sounds awesome. She sounds a bit like mine and a bit like me. I realize that at least in dcurbanmom-land all children are above average, get straight a's, and are well-rounded, always happy, and extremely well-adjusted?

But that world sounds awful. Your daughter would probably be happy at Bard or Beloit or Bennington. Reed. Grinnell. Oberlin. Sarah Lawrence. Maybe St John's if she'd like a classical education. If you want a state school, go for St Mary's in MD. There are many SLACs that cater to real kids with actual interests. Don't sweat it. Ap's ARE stupid. It's a lot more fun to take classes in college, than in high school... why miss out on that?

Grades are so inflated and at this point completely class-driven. They don't mean that much. Just focus on having her find her interests and pursue them. The rest will follow.

Love how you assumed all the pp's questioning whether OP's DC is gifted are women Also, you're right, in dcurbanmom-land all children are above average, get straight As and, don't forget, are GIFTED.

[Anonymous]

The issue is that she used a very specific label (gifted) without anything to back it up, said she didn’t believe in IQ tests, didn’t share what APs her child has done or is planning to do, what SAT/ACT score she has, and what she wants to study...

So due to the lack of data, we cannot help, and frankly OP has acted in a very annoying way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, sorry to say but its very much a numbers game. If you are looking for high merit I would look at some of the good, but not tippy top, small private colleges. For example, My DD has UW 3.96 and got enough merit at St. Mary's of California to make it the same cost as ASU (that's our in-state). A 3.88UW is good, but it's not high enough to be a shoo-in for a merit award at a top school and, depending on your state, not a shoo-in for admission to a great in-state (looking at you, Virginia). Maybe start with the CTCL book and do the net price for some of those schools to give you a starting point.

OP just said a 3.88 GPA. No statement that it's unweighted.