Allegedly there are several options for the fall none of which include being back full time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of this black and white thinking is ridiculous. It is not a choice between going back the way we used to or full-time distance learning for everyone. The reality is that it will be a hybrid of the two, and exactly what that looks like will vary across the country because there are different densities of people, different resources, and different community needs. As soon as Maryland put out the guidelines, it should have been apparent to anyone with an understanding of how a school actually functions that MCPS will have a hybrid model next year. These are the three most obvious reasons IMO:

1. If schools don't attempt to follow at least some of the guidelines and a child gets seriously sick and suffers permanent health problems or dies, there will be lawsuits.
2. There are going to be a significant number of parents who don't want to send their kids to school buildings. Because of this, the schools will have to offer some type of distance learning.
3. There are going to be a significant number of teachers who don't want to go in to school buildings. Because of this, the schools will need to offer distance learning. (And you can be flippant and say the teachers should just quit if they don't want to teach. Yes, yes they will. Mid-July is the date to retire, take leave of absence, or resign without prejudice. Then who will you have to teach your kids that you insisted had to be back in the schools?)

As a result of the above, two other challenges come to mind:
4. We know that DL isn't working for many kids, especially elementary, SPED, and ESOL. There is absolutely a priority to get as many kids back in the classroom as possible. The question right now is who and how?
5. In order to meet guidelines, the density of students in school buildings needs to be at least 50% of what it is normally. The question is, how to do this? Alternating days/weeks? Half-days with morning or afternoon shifts? Some students mostly in school and some students mostly at home?
5a. And yes, public schools do also function as daycare for the youngest students (under 8). Our economy as it is currently structured assumes that. How does this need to be adapted? Part of the day inside for learning, and then part of the day outside for play/daycare? Community co-ops for watching kids?

It's time for people to get over the idea that MCPS will start 2020 school year like it started 2019 in the fall. It is just not going to happen. Not because people are brainwashed, or hate your children, or don't want to teach. It's because as a society we know that we have to balance health, economic, and social concerns of all of the different people who live in our communities. Part of that balance will be a hybrid model for schools next year.

You are still not getting it. There is no reason to have any distance learning on the fall. There is no justification for it as there is no evidence that it has any real effect on the spread (schools that is). Nobody HAS to send their kids back to school-they can homeschool. There were people homeschooling before this and will be after this.

As far as teachers are concerned if they are that concerned then they need to find a new job. It's not like working with kids was risk free before. I work with kids and consistently get strep once a year because of it. It's never been a job without risk of getting sick. My kid got the flu from someone in his class last year and was very sick for 8 days. I didn't file a lawsuit about it.

Frankly "the I don't feel safe" argument from teachers just feels like a cop out at this point.

It doesn't matter what your opinion of teachers is. It matters what they will do. Many teachers are able to retire but keep teaching because they enjoy it. I know of two who already decided to retire this year when they were planning to retire next year. I know two other teachers who have personal health issues and/or family members with issues who won't go back into buildings. They are just waiting to see what MCPS plans are before deciding what they will do. A previous poster in this thread shared a similar story. Even with a hybrid plan, there may be teachers who decide it is less risk to resign and then go work as a nanny/teacher for someone willing to pay (head over to other parts of this forum to watch those discussions - pay might be better even.) I'm a career changer. I will change careers again if I think my job puts my health at risk. Plenty of teachers have choices. Contrary to popular views on DCUM, teachers are not servants to work as parents see fit. Teachers are professionals, and many have a lot more choices and flexibility about their careers than people assume. It's easy to claim, oh the system will just hire other teachers. Um, we already have a teacher shortage. If you manage to hire anyone, your going to be getting inexperienced people, possibly uncertified, who can act as babysitters, and you will lose the main benefit for going back into the buildings - properly education our kids.

Many experienced teachers are actually bad at teaching as well as bad as babysitters.

Then why are you so eager to end your child back into the building? You could remove half the problem in that scenario by keeping them within you all day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of this black and white thinking is ridiculous. It is not a choice between going back the way we used to or full-time distance learning for everyone. The reality is that it will be a hybrid of the two, and exactly what that looks like will vary across the country because there are different densities of people, different resources, and different community needs. As soon as Maryland put out the guidelines, it should have been apparent to anyone with an understanding of how a school actually functions that MCPS will have a hybrid model next year. These are the three most obvious reasons IMO:

1. If schools don't attempt to follow at least some of the guidelines and a child gets seriously sick and suffers permanent health problems or dies, there will be lawsuits.
2. There are going to be a significant number of parents who don't want to send their kids to school buildings. Because of this, the schools will have to offer some type of distance learning.
3. There are going to be a significant number of teachers who don't want to go in to school buildings. Because of this, the schools will need to offer distance learning. (And you can be flippant and say the teachers should just quit if they don't want to teach. Yes, yes they will. Mid-July is the date to retire, take leave of absence, or resign without prejudice. Then who will you have to teach your kids that you insisted had to be back in the schools?)

As a result of the above, two other challenges come to mind:
4. We know that DL isn't working for many kids, especially elementary, SPED, and ESOL. There is absolutely a priority to get as many kids back in the classroom as possible. The question right now is who and how?
5. In order to meet guidelines, the density of students in school buildings needs to be at least 50% of what it is normally. The question is, how to do this? Alternating days/weeks? Half-days with morning or afternoon shifts? Some students mostly in school and some students mostly at home?
5a. And yes, public schools do also function as daycare for the youngest students (under 8). Our economy as it is currently structured assumes that. How does this need to be adapted? Part of the day inside for learning, and then part of the day outside for play/daycare? Community co-ops for watching kids?

It's time for people to get over the idea that MCPS will start 2020 school year like it started 2019 in the fall. It is just not going to happen. Not because people are brainwashed, or hate your children, or don't want to teach. It's because as a society we know that we have to balance health, economic, and social concerns of all of the different people who live in our communities. Part of that balance will be a hybrid model for schools next year.

You are still not getting it. There is no reason to have any distance learning on the fall. There is no justification for it as there is no evidence that it has any real effect on the spread (schools that is). Nobody HAS to send their kids back to school-they can homeschool. There were people homeschooling before this and will be after this.

As far as teachers are concerned if they are that concerned then they need to find a new job. It's not like working with kids was risk free before. I work with kids and consistently get strep once a year because of it. It's never been a job without risk of getting sick. My kid got the flu from someone in his class last year and was very sick for 8 days. I didn't file a lawsuit about it.

Frankly "the I don't feel safe" argument from teachers just feels like a cop out at this point.

Um Covid can and does kill people. And not just elderly. Do you never look at the MoCo graphs? I work in healthcare.
Big difference

For the under 65 demographic without severe pre-existing conditions, the infection fatality rate of covid is not higher than the flu.

A large portion of population in our county are over-weight and have pre-existing conditions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

A large portion of population in our county are over-weight and have pre-existing conditions.

In 2018, according to the state data, Montgomery County had the lowest prevalence of diabetes (8 percent) of any Maryland county. Montgomery also had the fewest smokers (7 percent), fewest obese adults (21 percent), lowest prevalence of frequent mental distress (8 percent), the lowest percentage of drug overdose deaths (9 percent) and lowest rate of firearm fatalities (3 percent).

https://www.mymcmedia.org/montgomery-remains-healthiest-county-maryland/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A large portion of population in our county are over-weight and have pre-existing conditions.

In 2018, according to the state data, Montgomery County had the lowest prevalence of diabetes (8 percent) of any Maryland county. Montgomery also had the fewest smokers (7 percent), fewest obese adults (21 percent), lowest prevalence of frequent mental distress (8 percent), the lowest percentage of drug overdose deaths (9 percent) and lowest rate of firearm fatalities (3 percent).

https://www.mymcmedia.org/montgomery-remains-healthiest-county-maryland/

Many teachers live in PG.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids are not vectors. Schools need to reopen.

If restaurants and churches and gyms can open, school can open full time. I can't even believe there is so much drama about this.

+1
Pretty sure that’s going to be the defining factor in what makes schools end up opening. You can’t open the rest of society and not schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A large portion of population in our county are over-weight and have pre-existing conditions.

In 2018, according to the state data, Montgomery County had the lowest prevalence of diabetes (8 percent) of any Maryland county. Montgomery also had the fewest smokers (7 percent), fewest obese adults (21 percent), lowest prevalence of frequent mental distress (8 percent), the lowest percentage of drug overdose deaths (9 percent) and lowest rate of firearm fatalities (3 percent).

https://www.mymcmedia.org/montgomery-remains-healthiest-county-maryland/

Many teachers live in PG.

No, no, I just read on another thread in DCUM that all of the MCPS teachers live in Takoma Park.

Yes, there are teachers who live in Prince George's. There are also teachers who live in Frederick, Carroll, and Howard. So what. Kids need to go to school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A large portion of population in our county are over-weight and have pre-existing conditions.

In 2018, according to the state data, Montgomery County had the lowest prevalence of diabetes (8 percent) of any Maryland county. Montgomery also had the fewest smokers (7 percent), fewest obese adults (21 percent), lowest prevalence of frequent mental distress (8 percent), the lowest percentage of drug overdose deaths (9 percent) and lowest rate of firearm fatalities (3 percent).

https://www.mymcmedia.org/montgomery-remains-healthiest-county-maryland/

Many teachers live in PG.

No, no, I just read on another thread in DCUM that all of the MCPS teachers live in Takoma Park.

Yes, there are teachers who live in Prince George's. There are also teachers who live in Frederick, Carroll, and Howard. So what. Kids need to go to school.

The do what is that the teachers may not be skinny, healthy MoCo residents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of this black and white thinking is ridiculous. It is not a choice between going back the way we used to or full-time distance learning for everyone. The reality is that it will be a hybrid of the two, and exactly what that looks like will vary across the country because there are different densities of people, different resources, and different community needs. As soon as Maryland put out the guidelines, it should have been apparent to anyone with an understanding of how a school actually functions that MCPS will have a hybrid model next year. These are the three most obvious reasons IMO:

1. If schools don't attempt to follow at least some of the guidelines and a child gets seriously sick and suffers permanent health problems or dies, there will be lawsuits.
2. There are going to be a significant number of parents who don't want to send their kids to school buildings. Because of this, the schools will have to offer some type of distance learning.
3. There are going to be a significant number of teachers who don't want to go in to school buildings. Because of this, the schools will need to offer distance learning. (And you can be flippant and say the teachers should just quit if they don't want to teach. Yes, yes they will. Mid-July is the date to retire, take leave of absence, or resign without prejudice. Then who will you have to teach your kids that you insisted had to be back in the schools?)

As a result of the above, two other challenges come to mind:
4. We know that DL isn't working for many kids, especially elementary, SPED, and ESOL. There is absolutely a priority to get as many kids back in the classroom as possible. The question right now is who and how?
5. In order to meet guidelines, the density of students in school buildings needs to be at least 50% of what it is normally. The question is, how to do this? Alternating days/weeks? Half-days with morning or afternoon shifts? Some students mostly in school and some students mostly at home?
5a. And yes, public schools do also function as daycare for the youngest students (under 8). Our economy as it is currently structured assumes that. How does this need to be adapted? Part of the day inside for learning, and then part of the day outside for play/daycare? Community co-ops for watching kids?

It's time for people to get over the idea that MCPS will start 2020 school year like it started 2019 in the fall. It is just not going to happen. Not because people are brainwashed, or hate your children, or don't want to teach. It's because as a society we know that we have to balance health, economic, and social concerns of all of the different people who live in our communities. Part of that balance will be a hybrid model for schools next year.

You are still not getting it. There is no reason to have any distance learning on the fall. There is no justification for it as there is no evidence that it has any real effect on the spread (schools that is). Nobody HAS to send their kids back to school-they can homeschool. There were people homeschooling before this and will be after this.

As far as teachers are concerned if they are that concerned then they need to find a new job. It's not like working with kids was risk free before. I work with kids and consistently get strep once a year because of it. It's never been a job without risk of getting sick. My kid got the flu from someone in his class last year and was very sick for 8 days. I didn't file a lawsuit about it.

Frankly "the I don't feel safe" argument from teachers just feels like a cop out at this point.

It doesn't matter what your opinion of teachers is. It matters what they will do. Many teachers are able to retire but keep teaching because they enjoy it. I know of two who already decided to retire this year when they were planning to retire next year. I know two other teachers who have personal health issues and/or family members with issues who won't go back into buildings. They are just waiting to see what MCPS plans are before deciding what they will do. A previous poster in this thread shared a similar story. Even with a hybrid plan, there may be teachers who decide it is less risk to resign and then go work as a nanny/teacher for someone willing to pay (head over to other parts of this forum to watch those discussions - pay might be better even.) I'm a career changer. I will change careers again if I think my job puts my health at risk. Plenty of teachers have choices. Contrary to popular views on DCUM, teachers are not servants to work as parents see fit. Teachers are professionals, and many have a lot more choices and flexibility about their careers than people assume. It's easy to claim, oh the system will just hire other teachers. Um, we already have a teacher shortage. If you manage to hire anyone, your going to be getting inexperienced people, possibly uncertified, who can act as babysitters, and you will lose the main benefit for going back into the buildings - properly education our kids.

Many experienced teachers are actually bad at teaching as well as bad as babysitters.

Okay so watch and teach your own kids then? What’s your damage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
All or nothing. Half days or alternating days or weeks will never happen. The logistics are impossible to implement on this short notice. Forget quality and effectiveness of DL, just attempting the jumble of logistics will collapse the capacity and budget of schools, the patience of teachers and parents and students, significant learning, parents' personal finances and careers and sanity, and on and on.

If MCPS attempts a convoluted hybrid model with not a single proof-of-concept example to show us, or other cases to highlight where hybrids worked, or even an internal study showing feasibility, and it collapses, there will be a revolt. So it's a political decision. These "leaders" better know they're playing with fire.

There will be no revolt. Look at the BOE elections we had just this week. The top two candidates are typical "establishment" -- endorsed by the teacher's union or ex BOE members, or both.

MCPS has shown a pattern of not listening to parents before -- they're not going to start now. Remember, they know better than us what we want and need.

It's sad really. If they go with all DL or the 2 days on/2 days off model, we are planning to move in with relatives in another state where their schools are likely be open normally. Our kids are young elementary and at that age, distance learning just doesn't work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
There will be no revolt. Look at the BOE elections we had just this week. The top two candidates are typical "establishment" -- endorsed by the teacher's union or ex BOE members, or both.

MCPS has shown a pattern of not listening to parents before -- they're not going to start now. Remember, they know better than us what we want and need.

It's sad really. If they go with all DL or the 2 days on/2 days off model, we are planning to move in with relatives in another state where their schools are likely be open normally. Our kids are young elementary and at that age, distance learning just doesn't work.

Neither of them is "establishment," whatever that even means. And one of them actually is a MCPS parent.

Not to mention using the results of an election - the process in which voters choose elected representatives - to support your argument that MCPS doesn't listen to the people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids are not vectors. Schools need to reopen.

If restaurants and churches and gyms can open, school can open full time. I can't even believe there is so much drama about this.

+1
Pretty sure that’s going to be the defining factor in what makes schools end up opening. You can’t open the rest of society and not schools.

My church will only admit 100 people at a time until there’s a vaccine. That counts the priest, deacon, altar servers, lectors, cantor, and choir. Which leaves about 75 spots for parishioners to attend. We normally have ten times that at each of 4 Sunday Masses. The 75 who come will need to get tickets first come first serve. Everyone else can livestream.

Now, if you want to send only 90 students to my school and have the other 810 livestream, that sounds like a real comparison to my church resuming in person services.

Gyms are taping off every other machine, allowing in only 1/3 of the normal capacity, and being strict about temperature checks. Again, schools that remove every other desk, cut capacity by 2/3, and check students’ temps would be a fair comparison.

Restaurants are not allowing shared condiments at the table, using disposable menus, and changing table linens between guests. Plus, some have installed plexiglass shields at the tables as well as cutting capacity by removing of blocking off half the tables. When we have enough textbooks and Chromebooks for each child that would be a good comparison between schools and restaurants.

[Anonymous]

That’s what gyms and churches are doing right now. By September, they will be much less strict.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

My church will only admit 100 people at a time until there’s a vaccine. That counts the priest, deacon, altar servers, lectors, cantor, and choir. Which leaves about 75 spots for parishioners to attend. We normally have ten times that at each of 4 Sunday Masses. The 75 who come will need to get tickets first come first serve. Everyone else can livestream.

Now, if you want to send only 90 students to my school and have the other 810 livestream, that sounds like a real comparison to my church resuming in person services.

Gyms are taping off every other machine, allowing in only 1/3 of the normal capacity, and being strict about temperature checks. Again, schools that remove every other desk, cut capacity by 2/3, and check students’ temps would be a fair comparison.

Restaurants are not allowing shared condiments at the table, using disposable menus, and changing table linens between guests. Plus, some have installed plexiglass shields at the tables as well as cutting capacity by removing of blocking off half the tables. When we have enough textbooks and Chromebooks for each child that would be a good comparison between schools and restaurants.

Today is June 6.

The first day of school is August 31.

Many things can, and likely will, change between now and then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My church will only admit 100 people at a time until there’s a vaccine. That counts the priest, deacon, altar servers, lectors, cantor, and choir. Which leaves about 75 spots for parishioners to attend. We normally have ten times that at each of 4 Sunday Masses. The 75 who come will need to get tickets first come first serve. Everyone else can livestream.

Now, if you want to send only 90 students to my school and have the other 810 livestream, that sounds like a real comparison to my church resuming in person services.

Gyms are taping off every other machine, allowing in only 1/3 of the normal capacity, and being strict about temperature checks. Again, schools that remove every other desk, cut capacity by 2/3, and check students’ temps would be a fair comparison.

Restaurants are not allowing shared condiments at the table, using disposable menus, and changing table linens between guests. Plus, some have installed plexiglass shields at the tables as well as cutting capacity by removing of blocking off half the tables. When we have enough textbooks and Chromebooks for each child that would be a good comparison between schools and restaurants.

Today is June 6.

The first day of school is August 31.

Many things can, and likely will, change between now and then.

Exactly. Look at European countries that were so hard hit. They are down to minimal cases and deaths now. We should follow the same pattern ....July and august will show us a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of this black and white thinking is ridiculous. It is not a choice between going back the way we used to or full-time distance learning for everyone. The reality is that it will be a hybrid of the two, and exactly what that looks like will vary across the country because there are different densities of people, different resources, and different community needs. As soon as Maryland put out the guidelines, it should have been apparent to anyone with an understanding of how a school actually functions that MCPS will have a hybrid model next year. These are the three most obvious reasons IMO:

1. If schools don't attempt to follow at least some of the guidelines and a child gets seriously sick and suffers permanent health problems or dies, there will be lawsuits.
2. There are going to be a significant number of parents who don't want to send their kids to school buildings. Because of this, the schools will have to offer some type of distance learning.
3. There are going to be a significant number of teachers who don't want to go in to school buildings. Because of this, the schools will need to offer distance learning. (And you can be flippant and say the teachers should just quit if they don't want to teach. Yes, yes they will. Mid-July is the date to retire, take leave of absence, or resign without prejudice. Then who will you have to teach your kids that you insisted had to be back in the schools?)

As a result of the above, two other challenges come to mind:
4. We know that DL isn't working for many kids, especially elementary, SPED, and ESOL. There is absolutely a priority to get as many kids back in the classroom as possible. The question right now is who and how?
5. In order to meet guidelines, the density of students in school buildings needs to be at least 50% of what it is normally. The question is, how to do this? Alternating days/weeks? Half-days with morning or afternoon shifts? Some students mostly in school and some students mostly at home?
5a. And yes, public schools do also function as daycare for the youngest students (under 8). Our economy as it is currently structured assumes that. How does this need to be adapted? Part of the day inside for learning, and then part of the day outside for play/daycare? Community co-ops for watching kids?

It's time for people to get over the idea that MCPS will start 2020 school year like it started 2019 in the fall. It is just not going to happen. Not because people are brainwashed, or hate your children, or don't want to teach. It's because as a society we know that we have to balance health, economic, and social concerns of all of the different people who live in our communities. Part of that balance will be a hybrid model for schools next year.

You are still not getting it. There is no reason to have any distance learning on the fall. There is no justification for it as there is no evidence that it has any real effect on the spread (schools that is). Nobody HAS to send their kids back to school-they can homeschool. There were people homeschooling before this and will be after this.

As far as teachers are concerned if they are that concerned then they need to find a new job. It's not like working with kids was risk free before. I work with kids and consistently get strep once a year because of it. It's never been a job without risk of getting sick. My kid got the flu from someone in his class last year and was very sick for 8 days. I didn't file a lawsuit about it.

Frankly "the I don't feel safe" argument from teachers just feels like a cop out at this point.

Um Covid can and does kill people. And not just elderly. Do you never look at the MoCo graphs? I work in healthcare.
Big difference

For the under 65 demographic without severe pre-existing conditions, the infection fatality rate of covid is not higher than the flu.

A large portion of population in our county are over-weight and have pre-existing conditions.

Then they stay home and the rest of us get back to school/work! I am not going to quit my job and stay home with my kid because Americans are fat. Ugh my god how hard is this.