The Social Class Ladders—Labor, Gentry, and Elite

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I fell like if you eat baked ziti or serve guests lasagne, you are low class. Period. You can tell alot about someone's social class by their eating habits.

I see DCUM's lasagna hate has found it's way to Money & Finances forum.

Though there's a sense in which I agree with you...but I don't think it's so much about never eating those foods as it is about recognizing them for what they are (not fancy food).

Someone with refinement who was raised in a family who exposed their children to travel, and good high quality cuisine won't even have the palate to want to eat the typical olive garden fare. Lasagne and Ziti are middle class and below foods. They are foods actually adored by those classes.

Again, what you eat and really belies your upbringing amd exposure.

you are insane. I just spent the last two weeks in Italy, we went out to dinner every night at nice, well reviewed places (we easily spent over 2k on food), and lasagna was often on the menu at these places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I like about this spread,is it is more than income. It includes "values" and perceptions.

For some, it is all about money. For others, personal satisfaction comes from other factors.

For example, financially, a university professor might not be UMC -- my BIL ( a full professor) is paid under 80K for a 9 month salary....but he is not in it for the money. For him, he (as a G2) has the perfect job.

By comparison, someone in finance, who might make 10x him, is really not in the same class....

really, you would say someone who makes $800k is not upper middle class? What are they, just middle class?

NP. I would say they might be high gentry, but not necessarily in the E class. I agree with the other poster that I think this considers background, which is equally important to actual earnings.

For example, a lottery winner is probably not in the E class either.

Interesting. Well ok then. Next time someone posts on here about finding it hard to get by on $400k, I will feel free to come in and complain about how we can't afford to buy the million beach house I wish we could buy in addition to dropping the 50k we spend annually on various vacations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're a woman who "married down" how did it affect the culture your children grew up with? Are they also Ls/Gs? What is your culture at home?

I can answer this as the child. My mother tried hard to raise us the way she'd been raised -- value education, be financially literate, contribute to your community, participate in some sort of activity that you enjoy. She was supportive, helped us with homework, volunteered at school and our activities, and saved for our college educations. What helped the most was that I spent a lot of time with her parents (spoiled only grandchild for quite some time), and they taught me formal table manners, took me places with their friends, introduced me to influential people, started my college fund, and were all around wonderful to me. My father's family always had some sort of daytime talk-show drama going on, few are college-educated, and they were always screaming at each other about something or backstabbing each other to curry favor with their parents. I have no relationship with any of them as an adult, and I can't say I think I'm missing out.

To some extent, I also married down, but my husband was a complete fish out of water with his L upbringing and fled to G as fast as he could. His parents also felt education was very valuable, which is not typically of where he was raised, so going to college was expected/encouraged/financed. We come from different financial philosophies, but he's laid back enough to let me handle them and will acknowledge that he simply is not aware of a lot of the financial ins and outs that many of us take for granted. He's learned a lot and manages the "his" portion of our finances just fine. We don't fight about money, he enjoys culture, and he knows he got a shitty education as a kid and is hellbent on making sure that our kids get the best education we can provide for them. Both of us have graduate degrees. Where we differ is on ambition (he has a job for $, I have a career), ability to deal with anything bureaucracy-related (forms, waiting on hold, jumping through hoops for insurance issues), and tolerance of bullshit social games (no interest in schmoozing with other parents to get our kids on the playdate circuit). In terms of the culture in our home, we're in line with our G2/G3 counterparts, for the most part. We have kids over, we do "cultural" stuff as a family (plays, museums, some travel, etc.), we participate in community events, we stock their 529s, our kids are in activities (scouts, sports, etc.) and we lead some of those, etc.

I don't think these are "gentry" values. People of all classes value education, financial literacy, community, and engagement with hobbies.

I grew up the same way and I am a first generation college grad (plus grad degree).

[Anonymous]

^ ha! No they don't. That just shows you have no understanding of the underclass.

[Anonymous]

So what is a law firm associate (from a top 10 school) - turned in-house corporate counsel, turned General Counsel for a midsize non-public company?

G2 or E3/4?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Now I've heard it all.

Who doesn't like gooey cheese mixed with pasta? It has nothing to do with money and everything to do with how good it tastes, lol.

People that didn't grow up with their parents cooking from the trailer trash cookbook.

[Anonymous]

It's interesting to me all the posters who are saying class mobility does not exist. My H and I both grew up LMC. We're first generation college graduates. Now I have a PhD and he is in finance. Senior manager at his firm, very likely to advance. He makes >750k. I adjunct right now for the flexibility with our kids (I'm basically a SAHM for all intents and purposes - I only teach one or two courses a year to keep my toe in. It's basically a hobby job).

Anyway, my point is, we've still been invited to join the fancy country club, our kids go to an expensive private school, we vacation several times a year in the same spots as all the other parents (Caribbean, skiing, Europe, beach trip every year). I've never once felt slighted or looked down upon. Maybe our background is not obvious to others? We're mid thirties and went to good schools on scholarship/loans which we've since long paid off.

I don't get the people who are saying this ^ is not an example of class mobility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting to me all the posters who are saying class mobility does not exist. My H and I both grew up LMC. We're first generation college graduates. Now I have a PhD and he is in finance. Senior manager at his firm, very likely to advance. He makes >750k. I adjunct right now for the flexibility with our kids (I'm basically a SAHM for all intents and purposes - I only teach one or two courses a year to keep my toe in. It's basically a hobby job).

Anyway, my point is, we've still been invited to join the fancy country club, our kids go to an expensive private school, we vacation several times a year in the same spots as all the other parents (Caribbean, skiing, Europe, beach trip every year). I've never once felt slighted or looked down upon. Maybe our background is not obvious to others? We're mid thirties and went to good schools on scholarship/loans which we've since long paid off.

I don't get the people who are saying this ^ is not an example of class mobility.

You're white right? Feeling like you automatically fit in because you're white and have a lot of money is a privilege most brown people don't get to experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I fell like if you eat baked ziti or serve guests lasagne, you are low class. Period. You can tell alot about someone's social class by their eating habits.

I see DCUM's lasagna hate has found it's way to Money & Finances forum.

Though there's a sense in which I agree with you...but I don't think it's so much about never eating those foods as it is about recognizing them for what they are (not fancy food).

Someone with refinement who was raised in a family who exposed their children to travel, and good high quality cuisine won't even have the palate to want to eat the typical olive garden fare. Lasagne and Ziti are middle class and below foods. They are foods actually adored by those classes.

Again, what you eat and really belies your upbringing amd exposure.

Comments like these just scream "I grew up lower class and am deeply insecure about it".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting to me all the posters who are saying class mobility does not exist. My H and I both grew up LMC. We're first generation college graduates. Now I have a PhD and he is in finance. Senior manager at his firm, very likely to advance. He makes >750k. I adjunct right now for the flexibility with our kids (I'm basically a SAHM for all intents and purposes - I only teach one or two courses a year to keep my toe in. It's basically a hobby job).

Anyway, my point is, we've still been invited to join the fancy country club, our kids go to an expensive private school, we vacation several times a year in the same spots as all the other parents (Caribbean, skiing, Europe, beach trip every year). I've never once felt slighted or looked down upon. Maybe our background is not obvious to others? We're mid thirties and went to good schools on scholarship/loans which we've since long paid off.

I don't get the people who are saying this ^ is not an example of class mobility.

You're white right? Feeling like you automatically fit in because you're white and have a lot of money is a privilege most brown people don't get to experience.

Yes we are white. That is a good point. I guess I'm just wondering what I'm missing. There are so many posters in here insisting that this kind of mobility that I feel we have experienced does not exist. Maybe there are people who are sneering at us and it just sails over my head? I've honestly never noticed though. I've always felt like I fit in with whatever group I'm currently attached to (college sorority, grad school cohort, and now our neighborhood and fellow school parents).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now I've heard it all.

Who doesn't like gooey cheese mixed with pasta? It has nothing to do with money and everything to do with how good it tastes, lol.

People that didn't grow up with their parents cooking from the trailer trash cookbook.

actually these and other comfort type foods experienced a brief zeitgeist for a few years after the recession. Might want to check yourself there miss hoity toity. Shows what you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting to me all the posters who are saying class mobility does not exist. My H and I both grew up LMC. We're first generation college graduates. Now I have a PhD and he is in finance. Senior manager at his firm, very likely to advance. He makes >750k. I adjunct right now for the flexibility with our kids (I'm basically a SAHM for all intents and purposes - I only teach one or two courses a year to keep my toe in. It's basically a hobby job).

Anyway, my point is, we've still been invited to join the fancy country club, our kids go to an expensive private school, we vacation several times a year in the same spots as all the other parents (Caribbean, skiing, Europe, beach trip every year). I've never once felt slighted or looked down upon. Maybe our background is not obvious to others? We're mid thirties and went to good schools on scholarship/loans which we've since long paid off.

I don't get the people who are saying this ^ is not an example of class mobility.

You're white right? Feeling like you automatically fit in because you're white and have a lot of money is a privilege most brown people don't get to experience.

Yes we are white. That is a good point. I guess I'm just wondering what I'm missing. There are so many posters in here insisting that this kind of mobility that I feel we have experienced does not exist. Maybe there are people who are sneering at us and it just sails over my head? I've honestly never noticed though. I've always felt like I fit in with whatever group I'm currently attached to (college sorority, grad school cohort, and now our neighborhood and fellow school parents).

Probably not sneering (unless it's that PP above), but it's likely that people born into Gentry or Elite can tell that you are different than them. Your kids, probably less so if at all. It's also the case that you're kind of straddling G2 and E3/4, and particularly E3/4 are truly transitional rungs, so there are likely other people with backgrounds similar to yours in your circle.

I'm not saying any of this as a judgment. I'm just saying that my observation is that it's very rare that you really can't tell if someone grew up in a different class than they currently move around in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting to me all the posters who are saying class mobility does not exist. My H and I both grew up LMC. We're first generation college graduates. Now I have a PhD and he is in finance. Senior manager at his firm, very likely to advance. He makes >750k. I adjunct right now for the flexibility with our kids (I'm basically a SAHM for all intents and purposes - I only teach one or two courses a year to keep my toe in. It's basically a hobby job).

Anyway, my point is, we've still been invited to join the fancy country club, our kids go to an expensive private school, we vacation several times a year in the same spots as all the other parents (Caribbean, skiing, Europe, beach trip every year). I've never once felt slighted or looked down upon. Maybe our background is not obvious to others? We're mid thirties and went to good schools on scholarship/loans which we've since long paid off.

I don't get the people who are saying this ^ is not an example of class mobility.

You're white right? Feeling like you automatically fit in because you're white and have a lot of money is a privilege most brown people don't get to experience.

Yes we are white. That is a good point. I guess I'm just wondering what I'm missing. There are so many posters in here insisting that this kind of mobility that I feel we have experienced does not exist. Maybe there are people who are sneering at us and it just sails over my head? I've honestly never noticed though. I've always felt like I fit in with whatever group I'm currently attached to (college sorority, grad school cohort, and now our neighborhood and fellow school parents).

NP. Well I hate to say it but I do think it's true that the "rules" are different for attractive people. What you're talking about might be related to that. For whatever reason, lord knows, "society" loves white, skinny, blonde women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I fell like if you eat baked ziti or serve guests lasagne, you are low class. Period. You can tell alot about someone's social class by their eating habits.

I see DCUM's lasagna hate has found it's way to Money & Finances forum.

Though there's a sense in which I agree with you...but I don't think it's so much about never eating those foods as it is about recognizing them for what they are (not fancy food).

Someone with refinement who was raised in a family who exposed their children to travel, and good high quality cuisine won't even have the palate to want to eat the typical olive garden fare. Lasagne and Ziti are middle class and below foods. They are foods actually adored by those classes.

Again, what you eat and really belies your upbringing amd exposure.

Your misuse of "belies" gives you away, my dear. You don't know a thing about what your betters eat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I fell like if you eat baked ziti or serve guests lasagne, you are low class. Period. You can tell alot about someone's social class by their eating habits.

I see DCUM's lasagna hate has found it's way to Money & Finances forum.

Though there's a sense in which I agree with you...but I don't think it's so much about never eating those foods as it is about recognizing them for what they are (not fancy food).

Someone with refinement who was raised in a family who exposed their children to travel, and good high quality cuisine won't even have the palate to want to eat the typical olive garden fare. Lasagne and Ziti are middle class and below foods. They are foods actually adored by those classes.

Again, what you eat and really belies your upbringing amd exposure.

Comments like these just scream "I grew up lower class and am deeply insecure about it".

I was going to say something along these lines. It's totally bizarre. Also bizarre to equate Olive Garden with all forms of lasagna. It makes me think the PP hasn't ever actually been to Italy. I'm not a huge lasagna fan, but sometimes I like it. My first passport also had my hospital baby pic in it, since the first time I traveled overseas was when I was 2mos old. And my parents started taking me me to nice restaurants, including expecting me to sit and use my utensils properly etc, from as early as I can remember.

I will say, since this is anonymous, that equating these foods with fine or exotic dining seems to be a G3/G4 or L thing. The only weddings I've been to that served that kind of food were of those classes.