The Social Class Ladders—Labor, Gentry, and Elite

[Anonymous]

DCUM has multiple threads discussing “class” in the United States and poster after poster ends up conflating the easily measurable “economic class” with the taboo-to-discuss “social class”.

A few years ago, a blogger named Michael Church posted an interesting “Three Ladder System” of social class in the United States. It caught the attention of a few more bloggers:
• Siderea
• “Staying Classy“ at Slate Star Codex
• “Examining social class in the US“ at Daily Kos

Church created a social class system that looks like a series of parallel ladders with each ladder matching at a two-rung offset. He calls the ladders “labor”, “gentry”, and “elite”, and each one goes from 4 at the bottom to 1 at the top. The bottom-most is the “underclass”, which is a group all its own.

So roughly:
E1 E2 G1 E3 G2 E4 L1 G3 L2 G4 L3 L4 U

In this system, one could be earning $200,000+ annually as a L1 Small Business Owner, a G2 Junior Executive, or an E4 entry Investment Banker / Associate in Big Law. All would have an upper-middle-class income, but their tastes, relationships, and career trajectory would be very different.

A person earning $200,000 on each of these ladders would likely live in different housing developments, have different friends, have attended different colleges, and have different interests.

You probably are aware of the social class norms for your own social class and the adjacent ones. Further away than that and you really don't have any clue whatsoever. It's also why its so unusual to move social classes. It's difficult and there aren't many resources to guide you through the process.

[Anonymous]

I agree with this. We're unlikely to ever get out of the middle, no matter how much money we accumulate. The description of gentry seems to best describe us, even though our HHI is fairly high.

[Anonymous]

This is similar to applying to top MBA programs.

http://poetsandquants.com/2017/06/18/assessing-your-odds-of-getting-into-a-top-business-school/

[Anonymous]

Interesting stuff. My grandfather was an L2, having been raised in an orphanage then making something of himself; my father made it to L1; while I've made it up to E3 and my siblings are G3s. If my kids want to go to E2, they'll need to marry it, but I could see either go to G1. And as I look at that American rise, I see the primary influencer being, in each case, the mother.

America remains the land of opportunity.

[Anonymous]

I agree with this. I think I grew up in the elite class, or possibly higher gentry, and when i travelled and deliberately spent time in rural parts of America, I was just truly shocked. A set of rules I could not understand

[Anonymous]

This seems like a better way then UMC, MC, etc...

I am probably a G2 -- I am a research scientist with a job I enjoy. For me, work is fun and pays reasonably well.

There are people that make more money than me, but many are not happy in their work.

[Anonymous]

Interesting.

I'm a lawyer with my own firm serving high net worth clients. I guess I'm G2 or E3.

DH is a manager with PhD. That makes him a G2.

Grandparents were L2. Parents were G3. Extended relatives are mostly labor.

We know many E2 given my profession.

Different social classes make for different cultures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with this. I think I grew up in the elite class, or possibly higher gentry, and when i travelled and deliberately spent time in rural parts of America, I was just truly shocked. A set of rules I could not understand

Quite the opposite, I was raised L1/L2 in semi-rural America, in a house full of guns, cigarette smoke, John Wayne movies, country music and red label Scotch. I am always shocked by how many of the policymakers in DC have never even seen that (much less lived it), other than glimpses in some Orange is the New Black backstories. So much of DC thinks of rural America as a punchline, and I am amazed how many here avoid "flyover country" out of actual fear (fueled by ignorance and stereotyping), as opposed to mere disinterest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with this. I think I grew up in the elite class, or possibly higher gentry, and when i travelled and deliberately spent time in rural parts of America, I was just truly shocked. A set of rules I could not understand

Quite the opposite, I was raised L1/L2 in semi-rural America, in a house full of guns, cigarette smoke, John Wayne movies, country music and red label Scotch. I am always shocked by how many of the policymakers in DC have never even seen that (much less lived it), other than glimpses in some Orange is the New Black backstories. So much of DC thinks of rural America as a punchline, and I am amazed how many here avoid "flyover country" out of actual fear (fueled by ignorance and stereotyping), as opposed to mere disinterest.

Yes I realized how thick my bubble was when I took those trips. For example I would have grown up thinking a fast food person was a truly horrible job, just the bottom of the barrel. In many parts of America that is a good job, and one of the only ones available. That was truly shocking for me. I realized how sheltered I had been

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with this. I think I grew up in the elite class, or possibly higher gentry, and when i travelled and deliberately spent time in rural parts of America, I was just truly shocked. A set of rules I could not understand

Quite the opposite, I was raised L1/L2 in semi-rural America, in a house full of guns, cigarette smoke, John Wayne movies, country music and red label Scotch. I am always shocked by how many of the policymakers in DC have never even seen that (much less lived it), other than glimpses in some Orange is the New Black backstories. So much of DC thinks of rural America as a punchline, and I am amazed how many here avoid "flyover country" out of actual fear (fueled by ignorance and stereotyping), as opposed to mere disinterest.

Yes I realized how thick my bubble was when I took those trips. For example I would have grown up thinking a fast food person was a truly horrible job, just the bottom of the barrel. In many parts of America that is a good job, and one of the only ones available. That was truly shocking for me. I realized how sheltered I had been

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with this. I think I grew up in the elite class, or possibly higher gentry, and when i travelled and deliberately spent time in rural parts of America, I was just truly shocked. A set of rules I could not understand

Quite the opposite, I was raised L1/L2 in semi-rural America, in a house full of guns, cigarette smoke, John Wayne movies, country music and red label Scotch. I am always shocked by how many of the policymakers in DC have never even seen that (much less lived it), other than glimpses in some Orange is the New Black backstories. So much of DC thinks of rural America as a punchline, and I am amazed how many here avoid "flyover country" out of actual fear (fueled by ignorance and stereotyping), as opposed to mere disinterest.

My spouse was raised in a similar area, though his parents aren't into cigarettes or alcohol and placed a higher importance on education than probably 90% of the county. (My family was higher up the L class but not rural. My grandparents were higher-level Gs, and I spent a lot of time with them growing up, so jumping the L to G barrier wasn't that hard for me. My spouse struggles to fit in with the Gs, despite being educated and intelligent.) My in-laws still live in the town my spouse was raised, and, candidly, I don't enjoy visiting. It is 99% white, people feel perfectly comfortable using racial slurs, evangelical Christianity is the only religion that doesn't raise eyebrows, welfare is the major industry, and the educational system is a complete shitshow. My spouse never read an entire novel for an English class until college. In honors classes.

I feel pretty comfortable saying that my dislike of flyover country is based on distaste based on exposure, not fear or disinterest. There are some lovely people individually, but, on the whole, I'd never want to live there.

[Anonymous]

I am a either a L1 or G2. I am in mid 40s, multiple degrees from a mid level state school. I quit my primary career to start a business. Even though I'm the boss, I work many hours a week, and I am my own janitor, so that and other characteristics fit the definition of L1, while my college degrees put me in G2 as well.

As much as I am drawn towards the label of "Elite", I am not it, and not even good enough to be an Elite Servant.

[Anonymous]

I can't place us anywhere. We don't fit in.

[Anonymous]

Other than googling the author, can you post a link or copy and paste the definitions of E1, etc.? Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Other than googling the author, can you post a link or copy and paste the definitions of E1, etc.? Thanks.

It's a loooooooooooong article. The link provided in the OP is a good read.