Ax vs Ask

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was not a stereotype, it was what I heard and my own observation at my school. Would every AA teacher be the same way? I don't know, but I still say all teachers should set a good example. I just don't see how this is racist.

I agree - this is not racist. If the teacher were yelling in a nearly incomprehensible Boston accent or in Mexican slang, I'd feel the same way.

Hmm

[Anonymous]

Obviously no one in their right mind would think a teacher with a New England accent was speaking incorrectly or even imagine correcting him or her. That is just a laughable scenario and I don't buy it that anyone here would actually take offense or bring it up -- here, with the teacher or with the principle. So yes, having your hair stand on end because Ask is being mispronounced seems "tinged with racism." I think most racism is under the radar these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Obviously no one in their right mind would think a teacher with a New England accent was speaking incorrectly or even imagine correcting him or her. That is just a laughable scenario and I don't buy it that anyone here would actually take offense or bring it up -- here, with the teacher or with the principle. So yes, having your hair stand on end because Ask is being mispronounced seems "tinged with racism." I think most racism is under the radar these days.

Got it. If anyone has a problem with a teacher teaching AAVE rather than standard english, that person is a racist. Presumably the black mother who posted previously gets a pass. Of is she a self-hating black woman?

Very "under the radar".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was not a stereotype, it was what I heard and my own observation at my school. Would every AA teacher be the same way? I don't know, but I still say all teachers should set a good example. I just don't see how this is racist.

I agree - this is not racist. If the teacher were yelling in a nearly incomprehensible Boston accent or in Mexican slang, I'd feel the same way.

Hmm...

Question?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was not a stereotype, it was what I heard and my own observation at my school. Would every AA teacher be the same way? I don't know, but I still say all teachers should set a good example. I just don't see how this is racist.

I agree - this is not racist. If the teacher were yelling in a nearly incomprehensible Boston accent or in Mexican slang, I'd feel the same way.

Hmm

For your edification:

http://mleddy.blogspot.com/2007/03/if-i-were-if-i-was.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are in DCPS and I graduated from a DCPS. We don't say "axe" at home, but my son (3rd grade) was saying it regularly and now intermittently. We would simply correct him when he said it, as we correct his other pronunciation mistakes. If the teacher has multiple inadequacies, then I can see adding this mispronunciation to a list to be discussed with the Principal. If the teacher is absolutely wonderful and happens to use a regional accent to pronounce this one word, then I think the OP needs real problems with which to deal. Interestingly my daughter, who has been through years of speech therapy, does not pronounce this word incorrectly. I agree that it is incorrect, I confess that I have words that I pronounce less-than-perfectly, and I suspect that most of you wouldn't appreciate having someone nitpick at you at work. Pick your battles people. I would be more bothered by mines (rather than mine), personally, as that is improper grammar as opposed to improper pronunciation.

Anyway, seriously, some people need actual problems. I would really suggest you not anger the person who is going to be working with your child until June over a mispronunciation.

Thank you! Voice of reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was not a stereotype, it was what I heard and my own observation at my school. Would every AA teacher be the same way? I don't know, but I still say all teachers should set a good example. I just don't see how this is racist.

I agree - this is not racist. If the teacher were yelling in a nearly incomprehensible Boston accent or in Mexican slang, I'd feel the same way.

Hmm

NP here. Sorry, pp, that's the proper use of the word subjunctive. Interestingly enough, though, a lot of English speakers don't use the subjunctive anymore. The reason it probably doesn't come up is because most likely the failure to use the subjunctive properly is something that educated upper income English speakers do just as much as working class and poor English speakers. And I think that is what is central to this discussion. Who says what and where do they say it. The language of speakers from a certain demographic is more desirable than those from another demographic.

[Anonymous]

and don't get me started on "fewer" vs. "less."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was the reason I wanted my child in the Spanish Immersion program so he wouldn't pick up those type of bad habits. I observed an AA teacher in another class yelling at her all AA students using "AA dialect" I could barely understand a word she said. If you want to speak that way at home among your friends that's one thing, but don't bring it into the classroom.

Wow. These are the times when I know I need a serious break from DCUM. This is about the 4th ongoing thread of "let's heap on the negative African American stereotyping". An incredible amount of ignorance from such "educated" people. Just try your best not to pass it on to your kids. Do your part to break the cycle. I, for one, know my kids will be learning to treat people as individuals instead of thinking they know anything about them just by looking at their skin color. Which is all these stereotypes are good for. Much easier than actually getting to know someone.

This was not a stereotype, it was what I heard and my own observation at my school. Would every AA teacher be the same way? I don't know, but I still say all teachers should set a good example. I just don't see how this is racist.

Well, I didn't say it was racist anywhere, so that's your first assumption. I didn't say your first hand experience was a stereotype either. Choosing Spanish Immersion as the way for your son to avoid picking up "those type of bad habits" is to assume that ALL the other teachers don't speak proper English. You are also assuming that ALL the Spanish Immersion teachers do speak proper English. There is no way possible for you to know either! But, somehow, this is what you believe. If you don't see the generalizations and stereotyping all over your post, and this entire thread, then I can't help you.
It is also very interesting to me that while there probably isn't anyone on this board that uses ax instead of ask, very few can put together a grammatically correct sentence. So while everyone is busy sneering about their kids not learning all these "bad habits", it's obvious they mean only the "bad habits" spoken by certain people.

No, of course you didn't come out and say that. You merely said that there were a lot of posts on this thread that bordered on racism, then wimped out when asked to provide an example. Oh, I never said you were a racist, I just said that many here who have a problem with a school teacher using "axe" instead of "ask" were tinged with racism.

Pathetic.

What's pathetic is that you think I'm that poster you were arguing with. It must be the anonymous that gave me away. So, no, I didn't wimp out on providing examples of something I didn't say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously no one in their right mind would think a teacher with a New England accent was speaking incorrectly or even imagine correcting him or her. That is just a laughable scenario and I don't buy it that anyone here would actually take offense or bring it up -- here, with the teacher or with the principle. So yes, having your hair stand on end because Ask is being mispronounced seems "tinged with racism." I think most racism is under the radar these days.

Got it. If anyone has a problem with a teacher teaching AAVE rather than standard english, that person is a racist. Presumably the black mother who posted previously gets a pass. Of is she a self-hating black woman?

Very "under the radar".

What's wrong with you? Why would a black woman who didn't like AAVE be self-hating? AAVE is not spoken by every black person, it's a dialect spoken by some. Would you say a person from Lousiana who didn't speak French Creole and didn't like it is self-hating? No. Please, at least attempt to make sense with your comebacks.

And yes, if someone is a-okay with a white teacher with a heavy Boston or Chicago accent who doesn't pronounce words as they would be pronounced in standard American English but thinks it's unacceptable for a a black teacher to speak AAVE, THAT'S RACIST. The only variable in the situation is the teacher's race. Neither teacher is speaking accent-less standard American English, but one is one is okay and the other is not. If you cannot see that or do not agree with that, there's not much more that can be said to you.

(I am not the PP you quoted, by the way.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was the reason I wanted my child in the Spanish Immersion program so he wouldn't pick up those type of bad habits. I observed an AA teacher in another class yelling at her all AA students using "AA dialect" I could barely understand a word she said. If you want to speak that way at home among your friends that's one thing, but don't bring it into the classroom.

Wow. These are the times when I know I need a serious break from DCUM. This is about the 4th ongoing thread of "let's heap on the negative African American stereotyping". An incredible amount of ignorance from such "educated" people. Just try your best not to pass it on to your kids. Do your part to break the cycle. I, for one, know my kids will be learning to treat people as individuals instead of thinking they know anything about them just by looking at their skin color. Which is all these stereotypes are good for. Much easier than actually getting to know someone.

This was not a stereotype, it was what I heard and my own observation at my school. Would every AA teacher be the same way? I don't know, but I still say all teachers should set a good example. I just don't see how this is racist.

Well, I didn't say it was racist anywhere, so that's your first assumption. I didn't say your first hand experience was a stereotype either. Choosing Spanish Immersion as the way for your son to avoid picking up "those type of bad habits" is to assume that ALL the other teachers don't speak proper English. You are also assuming that ALL the Spanish Immersion teachers do speak proper English. There is no way possible for you to know either! But, somehow, this is what you believe. If you don't see the generalizations and stereotyping all over your post, and this entire thread, then I can't help you.
It is also very interesting to me that while there probably isn't anyone on this board that uses ax instead of ask, very few can put together a grammatically correct sentence. So while everyone is busy sneering about their kids not learning all these "bad habits", it's obvious they mean only the "bad habits" spoken by certain people.

No, of course you didn't come out and say that. You merely said that there were a lot of posts on this thread that bordered on racism, then wimped out when asked to provide an example. Oh, I never said you were a racist, I just said that many here who have a problem with a school teacher using "axe" instead of "ask" were tinged with racism.

Pathetic.

Yeah, you're arguing with several different people, because the person you called "pathetic" for not providing examples isn't the person you asked for examples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously no one in their right mind would think a teacher with a New England accent was speaking incorrectly or even imagine correcting him or her. That is just a laughable scenario and I don't buy it that anyone here would actually take offense or bring it up -- here, with the teacher or with the principle. So yes, having your hair stand on end because Ask is being mispronounced seems "tinged with racism." I think most racism is under the radar these days.

Got it. If anyone has a problem with a teacher teaching AAVE rather than standard english, that person is a racist. Presumably the black mother who posted previously gets a pass. Of is she a self-hating black woman?

Very "under the radar".

What's wrong with you? Why would a black woman who didn't like AAVE be self-hating? AAVE is not spoken by every black person, it's a dialect spoken by some. Would you say a person from Lousiana who didn't speak French Creole and didn't like it is self-hating? No. Please, at least attempt to make sense with your comebacks.

And yes, if someone is a-okay with a white teacher with a heavy Boston or Chicago accent who doesn't pronounce words as they would be pronounced in standard American English but thinks it's unacceptable for a a black teacher to speak AAVE, THAT'S RACIST. The only variable in the situation is the teacher's race. Neither teacher is speaking accent-less standard American English, but one is one is okay and the other is not. If you cannot see that or do not agree with that, there's not much more that can be said to you.

(I am not the PP you quoted, by the way.)

Isn't there a difference between an accent and a dialect?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What's wrong with you? Why would a black woman who didn't like AAVE be self-hating? AAVE is not spoken by every black person, it's a dialect spoken by some. Would you say a person from Lousiana who didn't speak French Creole and didn't like it is self-hating? No. Please, at least attempt to make sense with your comebacks.

And yes, if someone is a-okay with a white teacher with a heavy Boston or Chicago accent who doesn't pronounce words as they would be pronounced in standard American English but thinks it's unacceptable for a a black teacher to speak AAVE, THAT'S RACIST. The only variable in the situation is the teacher's race. Neither teacher is speaking accent-less standard American English, but one is one is okay and the other is not. If you cannot see that or do not agree with that, there's not much more that can be said to you.

(I am not the PP you quoted, by the way.)

Isn't there a difference between an accent and a dialect?

In either case, the word is not being pronounced as it would be in standard American English.

If you're worried about your child not pronouncing something as it would be pronounced in standard American English, does it really matter if the mispronounced word is coming from an accent or a dialect?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What's wrong with you? Why would a black woman who didn't like AAVE be self-hating? AAVE is not spoken by every black person, it's a dialect spoken by some. Would you say a person from Lousiana who didn't speak French Creole and didn't like it is self-hating? No. Please, at least attempt to make sense with your comebacks.

And yes, if someone is a-okay with a white teacher with a heavy Boston or Chicago accent who doesn't pronounce words as they would be pronounced in standard American English but thinks it's unacceptable for a a black teacher to speak AAVE, THAT'S RACIST. The only variable in the situation is the teacher's race. Neither teacher is speaking accent-less standard American English, but one is one is okay and the other is not. If you cannot see that or do not agree with that, there's not much more that can be said to you.

(I am not the PP you quoted, by the way.)

Isn't there a difference between an accent and a dialect?

In either case, the word is not being pronounced as it would be in standard American English.

If you're worried about your child not pronouncing something as it would be pronounced in standard American English, does it really matter if the mispronounced word is coming from an accent or a dialect?

Well, yes actually. My MIL is Australian and I find her accent delightful. I don't mind at all when my children sound like her.

[Anonymous]

13:30-
I think lots of us would find it cute for our children to imitate accents our family members might have.

To be more on topic, would you be okay with your DC picking up "mispronunciations" from a teacher with an Australian English accent (or some other accent you find "delightful"), but not with your DC picking up "mispronunciations" from a teacher who speaks AAVE?