Why are heaven or hell the only options

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ridiculous to think that you can only choose between those 2 options once you die.
Surely the other side has multiple options on how to be. With each option having their own leaders and entrance requirements.
There are numerous benefits anyway.

When you die, your life has ended, and you don’t go anywhere. You just die like everything else that was once alive - like the trees, and the animals, and the other humans.

That’s just your opinion on what happens after physical death, why are you stating it as a fact?

DP - so adjust his statement to include “there is no evidence that there is afterlife so there is no reason to believe there is one.”

You know this, you’re just being a sandypants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheist Artemis II astronaut Reid Wiseman Converts to Christianity after going to moon:

"There is no other explanation for what I saw and experienced. When we landed back on earth, I saw the cross and just wept."

I get that you don’t really need facts to form your beliefs but that quote doesn’t indicate that he was an atheist or that he converted.

Plus, it’s not an excuse to convert to Christianity instead of another religion. Plus, we don’t know that it’s true or not. It’s certainly the first I’m hearing about it.

Well, if it's the first that little ole you is hearing about it, then clearly it is false.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheist Artemis II astronaut Reid Wiseman Converts to Christianity after going to moon:

"There is no other explanation for what I saw and experienced. When we landed back on earth, I saw the cross and just wept."

I get that you don’t really need facts to form your beliefs but that quote doesn’t indicate that he was an atheist or that he converted.

He stated himself that he was "not religious" for his entire life. He met with a Navy chaplain as part of outprocessing after splashdown, which is where he saw the cross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheist Artemis II astronaut Reid Wiseman Converts to Christianity after going to moon:

"There is no other explanation for what I saw and experienced. When we landed back on earth, I saw the cross and just wept."

I get that you don’t really need facts to form your beliefs but that quote doesn’t indicate that he was an atheist or that he converted.

He stated himself that he was "not religious" for his entire life. He met with a Navy chaplain as part of outprocessing after splashdown, which is where he saw the cross.

That doesn’t mean he was an atheist. Many people believe in god but don’t belong to a specific religion. Or they do belong to a religion but aren’t active.

Most people I know fall into this category: grew up in a religion, didn’t actively participate much as an adult, but still mostly believe in god.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ridiculous to think that you can only choose between those 2 options once you die.
Surely the other side has multiple options on how to be. With each option having their own leaders and entrance requirements.
There are numerous benefits anyway.

When you die, your life has ended, and you don’t go anywhere. You just die like everything else that was once alive - like the trees, and the animals, and the other humans.

That’s just your opinion on what happens after physical death, why are you stating it as a fact?

DP - so adjust his statement to include “there is no evidence that there is afterlife so there is no reason to believe there is one.”

You know this, you’re just being a sandypants.

You are being obtuse, because you know that science only measures, quantifies, and defines the physical world. There is no possible way science can examine any “evidence” to prove or disprove an afterlife.

That’s why you are name calling instead of engaging in mature and rational discussion; you know and get angry and frustrated when someone points out that someone stating “there is no afterlife” is just stating their opinion disguised as fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ridiculous to think that you can only choose between those 2 options once you die.
Surely the other side has multiple options on how to be. With each option having their own leaders and entrance requirements.
There are numerous benefits anyway.

When you die, your life has ended, and you don’t go anywhere. You just die like everything else that was once alive - like the trees, and the animals, and the other humans.

That’s just your opinion on what happens after physical death, why are you stating it as a fact?

Why do the countless believers state that gods exist as a fact?

Funny how you didn’t ask them.

People have personal religious beliefs.

People have personal spiritual beliefs.

Whether belief in God is “right” or “wrong” is ultimately a matter of personal conviction and worldview.

What matters is how beliefs are held and expressed. Believing in God is compatible with being thoughtful, compassionate, curious, and respectful of people who hold different beliefs. Likewise, people who do not believe in God can also be thoughtful, compassionate, and ethical.

The PP was asking why some beliefs are stated as facts.

Actually the hypocritical PP only asked atheists this question, not believers.

Atheists and anti theists state openly that there are no God or gods. They state that human kind dies and simply stops existing. They state prayer doesn’t work and that people who believe in angels are mentally ill.

They don’t say that any of those statements are opinions or personal beliefs. They state them as fact.

Religion people have personal religious beliefs and do believe in God/gods.

However, there’s a difference between:

Believing that God exists — “I believe God is real.”

Insisting that everyone else must agree — “God exists, and anyone who disagrees is wrong.”

Atheists not only state their disbelief as a fact, they state everyone who believes that God or gods exists is wrong. They disparage people who believe in religion and God/gods as ignorant and stupid.

A person can firmly believe that God exists without trying to force that belief on others. Likewise, someone can firmly believe that no God exists without insisting that everyone else must agree.

Believers aren’t saying “I believe this”; they frequently state things as facts. You’re a hypocrite not to call that out.

People who state they have a personal religious or spiritual faith are only speaking for themselves.

They aren’t declaring with authority for any other human what is or isn’t.

People who declare or state that:

God doesn’t exist
Prayer doesn’t work
There is no afterlife for a human who dies

are making declarations or statements that have been debated by humanity for centuries, and none have definitive answers.

Each human has the right to think about these questions and decide for themselves what they believe happens.

When a dcum atheist/antitheist types “there’s no God or gods, prayer doesn’t work, or there is no afterlife,” they are wrongly and rudely declaring for the entire world something nobody can know.

When someone with faith types and discusses their personal religious beliefs; they are discussing their personal beliefs and experiences.

Atheists are so arrogant they believe that they alone have knowledge that the greatest historical and modern philosophers, theologians, teachers, etc, know they don’t have; and then, they get angry and offended when other people speak about their own personal beliefs and experiences.

How bitter or delusional do you have to be to act this way?

Repeatedly stating your own personal opinions as fact and pretending that no one else has a right to their own personal choices is toxic and troubling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ridiculous to think that you can only choose between those 2 options once you die.
Surely the other side has multiple options on how to be. With each option having their own leaders and entrance requirements.
There are numerous benefits anyway.

When you die, your life has ended, and you don’t go anywhere. You just die like everything else that was once alive - like the trees, and the animals, and the other humans.

That’s just your opinion on what happens after physical death, why are you stating it as a fact?

Why do the countless believers state that gods exist as a fact?

Funny how you didn’t ask them.

People have personal religious beliefs.

People have personal spiritual beliefs.

Whether belief in God is “right” or “wrong” is ultimately a matter of personal conviction and worldview.

What matters is how beliefs are held and expressed. Believing in God is compatible with being thoughtful, compassionate, curious, and respectful of people who hold different beliefs. Likewise, people who do not believe in God can also be thoughtful, compassionate, and ethical.

The PP was asking why some beliefs are stated as facts.

Actually the hypocritical PP only asked atheists this question, not believers.

Atheists and anti theists state openly that there are no God or gods. They state that human kind dies and simply stops existing. They state prayer doesn’t work and that people who believe in angels are mentally ill.

They don’t say that any of those statements are opinions or personal beliefs. They state them as fact.

Religion people have personal religious beliefs and do believe in God/gods.

However, there’s a difference between:

Believing that God exists — “I believe God is real.”

Insisting that everyone else must agree — “God exists, and anyone who disagrees is wrong.”

Atheists not only state their disbelief as a fact, they state everyone who believes that God or gods exists is wrong. They disparage people who believe in religion and God/gods as ignorant and stupid.

A person can firmly believe that God exists without trying to force that belief on others. Likewise, someone can firmly believe that no God exists without insisting that everyone else must agree.

Believers aren’t saying “I believe this”; they frequently state things as facts. You’re a hypocrite not to call that out.

People who state they have a personal religious or spiritual faith are only speaking for themselves.

They aren’t declaring with authority for any other human what is or isn’t.

People who declare or state that:

God doesn’t exist
Prayer doesn’t work
There is no afterlife for a human who dies

are making declarations or statements that have been debated by humanity for centuries, and none have definitive answers.

Each human has the right to think about these questions and decide for themselves what they believe happens.

When a dcum atheist/antitheist types “there’s no God or gods, prayer doesn’t work, or there is no afterlife,” they are wrongly and rudely declaring for the entire world something nobody can know.

When someone with faith types and discusses their personal religious beliefs; they are discussing their personal beliefs and experiences.

Atheists are so arrogant they believe that they alone have knowledge that the greatest historical and modern philosophers, theologians, teachers, etc, know they don’t have; and then, they get angry and offended when other people speak about their own personal beliefs and experiences.

How bitter or delusional do you have to be to act this way?

Repeatedly stating your own personal opinions as fact and pretending that no one else has a right to their own personal choices is toxic and troubling.

Hypocrite.

Believers do the EXACT same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, Heaven and Hell are simply place descriptors for being with God or away from God, forever. There is no in between. You are either redeemed of your earthly sin or you are not.

Hey hypocrite - this was stated as if it were fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mostly like my religion but this is where I get confused, on one side God claims to be merciful and love each of us many times more than any mother can and on other side, he can't take disobedience and feels like people should burn in hell.

It’s not that he “can’t take disobedience.”

God is by definition perfect. There can be no sin in His presence. You make the choice between remaining in a sinful state or seeking the redemption he offers.

Hey hypocrite - this was stated as if it were fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mostly like my religion but this is where I get confused, on one side God claims to be merciful and love each of us many times more than any mother can and on other side, he can't take disobedience and feels like people should burn in hell.

God’s nature includes mercy, justice, compassion, and forgiveness — not just punishment.

Hey hypocrite - this was stated as if it were fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ridiculous to think that you can only choose between those 2 options once you die.
Surely the other side has multiple options on how to be. With each option having their own leaders and entrance requirements.
There are numerous benefits anyway.

By definintion in the religions that use the terms, heaven and hell mean that you either choose to live in God's love, or you choose to be forever separated. So it is binary by definition.

When you talk about other options, you are removing the discussion from the faiths that use these terms, so the discussion ceases to have anything to do with heaven and hell, and is really about other ideas and theories and belief systems and the possibility that in the universe they all coexist.

But doesn't god know in advance who will "choose" to live "in his love" and who will not? And he creates them anyway? Isn't that cruel?

I know you won't answer or address this, because it shows how your god is logically impossible. You'll probably respond with a petulant comment like "you don't understand and are not worth addressing" which is what people do when they have no response to simple logic that goes against their beliefs. I'll give you respect and a mea culpa if you prove me wrong and try to respond.

Yes. Christianity does not offer (or even pretend to offer) a defense of this paradox. Some people will say that the existence of love requires the existence of the will which in turn logically requires the existence of evil. But this is not something that scripture supplies, it's just human philosophizing.

What scripture does say is that the potter has the right to do with the clay anything he wishes. And it says that before they had done anything good or bad, God said "Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated".

Some Christians are more comfortable with so-called double predestination than others.

I agree with this. Also, it doesn’t necessarily mean that God is cruel and it certainly doesn’t prove that God is an impossibility. You might not like that God, but it doesn’t mean that this God can’t exist.

In fact, there is a strong argument that it shows God’s kindness that he puts millions of people on earth who do wonderful, great things for humanity and yet have no allegiance to him whatsoever — people who actively work against him. If you have an employee who was working against you, you would probably fire him. But God through common grace allows these people to achieve much good in the world.

Here’s the other problem — if you don’t believe in predestination, then you have to believe that reaching God is some sort of cosmic rat race — that your salvation is based upon your own individual merit and achievement and success and how “good” you are. That means that people who have problems or issues getting it together in life (like me!) have no chance at all. That’s a lot more cruel than a system whereby God has provided a pathway to salvation through simple faith in him and endless forgiveness, grace, and mercy.

Hey hypocrite - this was stated as if it were fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mostly like my religion but this is where I get confused, on one side God claims to be merciful and love each of us many times more than any mother can and on other side, he can't take disobedience and feels like people should burn in hell.

It’s not that he “can’t take disobedience.”

God is by definition perfect. There can be no sin in His presence. You make the choice between remaining in a sinful state or seeking the redemption he offers.

God created sin. And then decided we all do it and have to grovel to be forgiven or we burn for eternity? Is that your perfect deity?

No, God did not create sin. Man created sin.

Hey hypocrite - this was stated as if it were fact.

[Anonymous]

Is that enough examples of the hypocrite neglecting to address the believers who are “wrongly and rudely declaring for the entire world something nobody can know”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ridiculous to think that you can only choose between those 2 options once you die.
Surely the other side has multiple options on how to be. With each option having their own leaders and entrance requirements.
There are numerous benefits anyway.

When you die, your life has ended, and you don’t go anywhere. You just die like everything else that was once alive - like the trees, and the animals, and the other humans.

That’s just your opinion on what happens after physical death, why are you stating it as a fact?

Why do the countless believers state that gods exist as a fact?

Funny how you didn’t ask them.

People have personal religious beliefs.

People have personal spiritual beliefs.

Whether belief in God is “right” or “wrong” is ultimately a matter of personal conviction and worldview.

What matters is how beliefs are held and expressed. Believing in God is compatible with being thoughtful, compassionate, curious, and respectful of people who hold different beliefs. Likewise, people who do not believe in God can also be thoughtful, compassionate, and ethical.

The PP was asking why some beliefs are stated as facts.

Actually the hypocritical PP only asked atheists this question, not believers.

Atheists and anti theists state openly that there are no God or gods. They state that human kind dies and simply stops existing. They state prayer doesn’t work and that people who believe in angels are mentally ill.

They don’t say that any of those statements are opinions or personal beliefs. They state them as fact.

Religion people have personal religious beliefs and do believe in God/gods.

However, there’s a difference between:

Believing that God exists — “I believe God is real.”

Insisting that everyone else must agree — “God exists, and anyone who disagrees is wrong.”

Atheists not only state their disbelief as a fact, they state everyone who believes that God or gods exists is wrong. They disparage people who believe in religion and God/gods as ignorant and stupid.

A person can firmly believe that God exists without trying to force that belief on others. Likewise, someone can firmly believe that no God exists without insisting that everyone else must agree.

Believers aren’t saying “I believe this”; they frequently state things as facts. You’re a hypocrite not to call that out.

People who state they have a personal religious or spiritual faith are only speaking for themselves.

They aren’t declaring with authority for any other human what is or isn’t.

People who declare or state that:

God doesn’t exist
Prayer doesn’t work
There is no afterlife for a human who dies

are making declarations or statements that have been debated by humanity for centuries, and none have definitive answers.

Each human has the right to think about these questions and decide for themselves what they believe happens.

When a dcum atheist/antitheist types “there’s no God or gods, prayer doesn’t work, or there is no afterlife,” they are wrongly and rudely declaring for the entire world something nobody can know.

When someone with faith types and discusses their personal religious beliefs; they are discussing their personal beliefs and experiences.

Atheists are so arrogant they believe that they alone have knowledge that the greatest historical and modern philosophers, theologians, teachers, etc, know they don’t have; and then, they get angry and offended when other people speak about their own personal beliefs and experiences.

How bitter or delusional do you have to be to act this way?

Repeatedly stating your own personal opinions as fact and pretending that no one else has a right to their own personal choices is toxic and troubling.

Hypocrite.

Believers do the EXACT same thing.

You are being unethical, rude, and obtuse.

Every human being has a right to choose their own beliefs and express those beliefs as a personal belief system.

Atheists who state there is no God, prayer doesn’t work, and no afterlife exists are erroneously stating their own opinions as fact for everyone on earth, dead or alive.

A personal relationship with Jesus and God is personal. The person who chooses that relationship with Jesus and God doesn’t declare that everyone else has to believe in Jesus and God, which the atheist does when declaring nothing exists.

You should think ethically about pretending to know these things:

-God doesn’t exist
-prayer doesn’t work
-there’s no afterlife for humans

You are claiming to know these huge and important questions when no one can possibly have the answers to these questions. You aren’t just stating that you personally don’t believe in God, that you don’t believe prayer works, or that you don’t believe in an afterlife.

I believe God exists. I believe prayer works. I believe heaven exists. However, I don’t believe you have to believe those things because I do. You have every right to not believe or believe in something else. My beliefs are personal, because I know via my own beliefs and ethics that everyone has a right to choose what they believe.

You should examine why you believe you alone know these things and why you don’t believe that other people are allowed to believe things you don’t believe in or express themselves.

That’s a very severe and rigid belief system you have, not at all normal.

You are now acting out even further by calling everyone a hypocrite, which is ethically wrong, immature, and adding nothing to the discussion.

You are capable of doing better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is that enough examples of the hypocrite neglecting to address the believers who are “wrongly and rudely declaring for the entire world something nobody can know”?

I believe in God- personal belief system.

God doesn’t exist- declaring for the whole world no God exists.

Can you please stop spamming the thread with your personality disorder?

It is off topic and adds zero to the thread.