Taylor's Feb. Rec for Woodward Boundary Study

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The issue is the demographics of the new WJ. Do the math.

It’s another Whitman (less diverse and richer than current WJ) while Woodward is just a mile away and will be a very different school.

What do you mean by different?

Wealth. A lot less of it.

Don’t turn on the new Woodward families when MCPS divided the schools and even the WJ cluster in an unexpected way. The way they split KP and GP puts all the single family homes in WJ rather than Woodward.

That is actually false.

Is it? We have a Whitman 2.0 supporter here.

No, I share concerns. I just think facts matter and there are multifamily homes from GP zoned to WJ in the proposal.

But all single family homes from KP and GP are zoned WJ.

Yeah, but those islands they rezoned are in the walk zone to Woodward, without walking on OGR and crossing the beltway to WJ, and a large proportion of those neighbors requested Woodward for that reason. WJ has a lot of multifamily dwellings from the Ashburton zone.

That's a good decision to get rid of those island. Bad decision is to add two DCC ES in Woodward instead of adding in WJ and Woodward each. It's very low hanging fruit for BOE members.

I understand the arguments re poverty concentration. I wonder if there are credible reasons for this recomendation that make this less low hanging fruit.

Maybe it is better to combine 2 current WJ ES and 2 current DCC ES into a new high school rather than 3:1? Wouldn't that result in more cohesion in the new school? Less likely for anyone to be othered or ignored? Less likely for the former WJ ES communities to dominate?

I know I will be dismissed as wanting Whitman 2.0 or whatever but genuinely asking.

There is documented proof that students( FARMS and non-FARMS) benefit most when they attend school below or around 20% FARMS. Concentrating poverty in one HS while creating second Whitman is net negative for our county.

I don't have document link handy but it has been shared here in past. There is no benefit to have 2:2 instead of 3:1. Many times, its not possible to do this due to how demography is distributed in our county, but when two schools are literally right next to each other it makes no sense to concentrate poverty in one and have Whitman 2.0 in another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:In a class of 30 students, it is going from 25 non-FARM students to 20 non-FARM students. Not an earth shattering change. No need for hyperbole.

And remember most FARMS students just like the non FARMS students are good kids whose parents care about their education.

This arguments shouldn't be used to concentrate poverty in one school when alternative is available without extra travel.

In general, the question is do you want 2 Whitmans? Or a new Woodward and new WJ that are a lot like the current WJ, BCC etc.

As many schools like current WJ and BCC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Am I reading the chart correctly that WJ’s capacity is dropping from its current 130% to a projected 77%? Do WJ families that feel happy with the downsizing in student body (and diversity) realize how this will drastically reduce WJ course offerings?

There is an elementary school boundary study in the works, right? I would not be surprised to see changes made to middle school assignments when that study happens. There are smaller boundary shifts that happen all the time. For better or worse, this here recommendation is not set in stone.

That's why VM should be added to WJ and either entire KP or Entire GP should be added to Woodward. It will create two schools like current WJ and BCC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is the demographics of the new WJ. Do the math.

It’s another Whitman (less diverse and richer than current WJ) while Woodward is just a mile away and will be a very different school.

What do you mean by different?

Wealth. A lot less of it.

Don’t turn on the new Woodward families when MCPS divided the schools and even the WJ cluster in an unexpected way. The way they split KP and GP puts all the single family homes in WJ rather than Woodward.

That is actually false.

Is it? We have a Whitman 2.0 supporter here.

No, I share concerns. I just think facts matter and there are multifamily homes from GP zoned to WJ in the proposal.

But all single family homes from KP and GP are zoned WJ.

Yeah, but those islands they rezoned are in the walk zone to Woodward, without walking on OGR and crossing the beltway to WJ, and a large proportion of those neighbors requested Woodward for that reason. WJ has a lot of multifamily dwellings from the Ashburton zone.

That's a good decision to get rid of those island. Bad decision is to add two DCC ES in Woodward instead of adding in WJ and Woodward each. It's very low hanging fruit for BOE members.

I understand the arguments re poverty concentration. I wonder if there are credible reasons for this recomendation that make this less low hanging fruit.

Maybe it is better to combine 2 current WJ ES and 2 current DCC ES into a new high school rather than 3:1? Wouldn't that result in more cohesion in the new school? Less likely for anyone to be othered or ignored? Less likely for the former WJ ES communities to dominate?

I know I will be dismissed as wanting Whitman 2.0 or whatever but genuinely asking.

DCC schools don't want to travel that far.

I don't think anyone is discussing far away DCC schools kids travelling long distance. Discussion is about already 2 ES schools getting added to Woodward. Adding one to WJ and one to Woodward would be far better. No one needs to travel far away for that. Woodward and WJ are on same road and less than a mile apart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I reading the chart correctly that WJ’s capacity is dropping from its current 130% to a projected 77%? Do WJ families that feel happy with the downsizing in student body (and diversity) realize how this will drastically reduce WJ course offerings?

There is an elementary school boundary study in the works, right? I would not be surprised to see changes made to middle school assignments when that study happens. There are smaller boundary shifts that happen all the time. For better or worse, this here recommendation is not set in stone.

Yes. I’m very pleased. And any high achieving kid can go to JFK or Wheaton program if they want.

Great recommendation from Taylor.

I agree, we are in KP. Couldn't have asked for a better situation. Bought houses with WJ price but getting Whitman school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I reading the chart correctly that WJ’s capacity is dropping from its current 130% to a projected 77%? Do WJ families that feel happy with the downsizing in student body (and diversity) realize how this will drastically reduce WJ course offerings?

There is an elementary school boundary study in the works, right? I would not be surprised to see changes made to middle school assignments when that study happens. There are smaller boundary shifts that happen all the time. For better or worse, this here recommendation is not set in stone.

Yes. I’m very pleased. And any high achieving kid can go to JFK or Wheaton program if they want.

Great recommendation from Taylor.

Of course WJ parents are pleased. They hit the jackpot. They will worry about course offerings when it comes to that, and easily get what they want since it will be one of the most desirable schools, with wealthy families and where teachers will want to teach. And no high achieving WJ kids will go to Wheaton or JFK. They will stick with their home school and most likely get better STEM and humanities classes anyway.

+1 WJ even with reduced numbers will be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is the demographics of the new WJ. Do the math.

It’s another Whitman (less diverse and richer than current WJ) while Woodward is just a mile away and will be a very different school.

What do you mean by different?

Wealth. A lot less of it.

Don’t turn on the new Woodward families when MCPS divided the schools and even the WJ cluster in an unexpected way. The way they split KP and GP puts all the single family homes in WJ rather than Woodward.

Is there a more close up map to show where gp and kp split?

GPES has many multi family houses still going to WJ. The Parkside condos, stoneybrook, apts near Grosvenor.

The islands from GPES that didn’t get WJ make complete sense. They should go to Woodward. One is directly next to Woodward.

Option B was the right call.

They will do elementary boundary soon to mitigate some of the split articulation issues. KPES is under capacity and Ashburton is over capacity. It will get resolved.

Looks like all the Option B signs on Strathmore worked.

But you agree that all the single family homes from GP and KP are going to WJ (granted that includes some mutifamily units going to WJ).

I think it’s just an interesting point. I thought GP, Farmland and Luxmanor were trying to stay together - that was the goal. But not how it played out.

No I do not agree. There are single family homes in the GPES islands that are going to Woodward. Some are very expensive off Tuckerman.

[Anonymous]

how do they know they are FARMs? And what makes them think they are poor? Where do they get this info?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is the demographics of the new WJ. Do the math.

It’s another Whitman (less diverse and richer than current WJ) while Woodward is just a mile away and will be a very different school.

What do you mean by different?

Wealth. A lot less of it.

Don’t turn on the new Woodward families when MCPS divided the schools and even the WJ cluster in an unexpected way. The way they split KP and GP puts all the single family homes in WJ rather than Woodward.

Is there a more close up map to show where gp and kp split?

GPES has many multi family houses still going to WJ. The Parkside condos, stoneybrook, apts near Grosvenor.

The islands from GPES that didn’t get WJ make complete sense. They should go to Woodward. One is directly next to Woodward.

Option B was the right call.

They will do elementary boundary soon to mitigate some of the split articulation issues. KPES is under capacity and Ashburton is over capacity. It will get resolved.

Looks like all the Option B signs on Strathmore worked.

But you agree that all the single family homes from GP and KP are going to WJ (granted that includes some mutifamily units going to WJ).

I think it’s just an interesting point. I thought GP, Farmland and Luxmanor were trying to stay together - that was the goal. But not how it played out.

Goal was to just get into WJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is the demographics of the new WJ. Do the math.

It’s another Whitman (less diverse and richer than current WJ) while Woodward is just a mile away and will be a very different school.

What do you mean by different?

Wealth. A lot less of it.

Don’t turn on the new Woodward families when MCPS divided the schools and even the WJ cluster in an unexpected way. The way they split KP and GP puts all the single family homes in WJ rather than Woodward.

Is there a more close up map to show where gp and kp split?

GPES has many multi family houses still going to WJ. The Parkside condos, stoneybrook, apts near Grosvenor.

The islands from GPES that didn’t get WJ make complete sense. They should go to Woodward. One is directly next to Woodward.

Option B was the right call.

They will do elementary boundary soon to mitigate some of the split articulation issues. KPES is under capacity and Ashburton is over capacity. It will get resolved.

Looks like all the Option B signs on Strathmore worked.

They were desperate to avoid Woodward.

I won't celebrate yet. MCPS may not ceoncentrate poverty in Woodward and make both schools more similar in final approval. It will depend on how hard Old Farm/North FArm and Luxmanor area lobbies.

As they should have been desperate to avoid Woodward. Fashion design? It grabs from Wheaton Woods now too. No thank you

Attention will be on Wootton. This Woodward rec is done deal.

Note that Taylor only submitted this rec for Woodward. In the Crown study he submitted a recommendation plus an alternative.

The BOE members can if they want to not appear completely useless stand up bravely against racial segregation by moving Viers Mill ES to WJ.

You lost credibility there. VM “improved” from Wheaton to Woodward too. You don’t see VM clamoring for WJ. GPE and KPE keeps status quo for its core.

I am from VM and prefer WJ.

Same. It’s a perfect solution. Move VM to WJ. Move all of GP to Woodward. FARMS rates are more evenly distributed. GP remains united just like they want

You are for the redistribution of wealth to VM. Shocking perspective for someone who lives in VM. You want to be able to better afford your addition. Woodward is an upgrade. You instead want to take WJ from GP where they have decades long relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are policies put in place by the BOR that dictate the factors the consultants have to look at. I believe they need to show data on at least some of that.

I do appreciate the transparency. But to be clear, there was at least one option presented that would have put one new feeder school into WJ and one into Woodward. We are not reinventing the wheel here - he decided specifically not to go in that direction.

Why? Who knows, maybe too much heat over Wootton?

Who would have goven heat for creating two schools similar to current WJ and BCC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is the demographics of the new WJ. Do the math.

It’s another Whitman (less diverse and richer than current WJ) while Woodward is just a mile away and will be a very different school.

What do you mean by different?

Wealth. A lot less of it.

Don’t turn on the new Woodward families when MCPS divided the schools and even the WJ cluster in an unexpected way. The way they split KP and GP puts all the single family homes in WJ rather than Woodward.

Is there a more close up map to show where gp and kp split?

GPES has many multi family houses still going to WJ. The Parkside condos, stoneybrook, apts near Grosvenor.

The islands from GPES that didn’t get WJ make complete sense. They should go to Woodward. One is directly next to Woodward.

Option B was the right call.

They will do elementary boundary soon to mitigate some of the split articulation issues. KPES is under capacity and Ashburton is over capacity. It will get resolved.

Looks like all the Option B signs on Strathmore worked.

They were desperate to avoid Woodward.

I won't celebrate yet. MCPS may not ceoncentrate poverty in Woodward and make both schools more similar in final approval. It will depend on how hard Old Farm/North FArm and Luxmanor area lobbies.

As they should have been desperate to avoid Woodward. Fashion design? It grabs from Wheaton Woods now too. No thank you

Attention will be on Wootton. This Woodward rec is done deal.

Note that Taylor only submitted this rec for Woodward. In the Crown study he submitted a recommendation plus an alternative.

The BOE members can if they want to not appear completely useless stand up bravely against racial segregation by moving Viers Mill ES to WJ.

You lost credibility there. VM “improved” from Wheaton to Woodward too. You don’t see VM clamoring for WJ. GPE and KPE keeps status quo for its core.

I am from VM and prefer WJ.

Same. It’s a perfect solution. Move VM to WJ. Move all of GP to Woodward. FARMS rates are more evenly distributed. GP remains united just like they want[b]

Yes, I see no harms in it and see many positives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given Woodward will host special program for Drama, Art, Media etc having 35-40% FARMS will result in high achiveing kids leaving for WJ or Stem program in Wheaton. It will result in fewer kids who can take higher level courses and they will have no choice.

STEM at Wheaton - is it a good program? Comparable to Blair? I am so upset they are dividing us in 6 regions.

Wheaton is the top high school for enrollment into UMD's School of Engineering. It's good - great principal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm reading all this with some detachment as a parent over in FCPS, where we just went through a much-publicized "county-wide boundary study" that resulted in limited changes and soon will be establishing boundaries for a new high school in the western part of the county.

One thing that stands out to me is how much more information Taylor is providing about the impact of the changes on projected enrollments (in 2031-32) and school demographics. Our superintendent provides as little of that information as possible, likely for two reasons: (1) the staff and consultants are too lazy and/or incompetent to generate it; and (2) they don't want to share information that would lead parents to complain about schools with "too many" FARMS students (here, apparently, Woodward) or "too few" (here, apparently, WJ and, of course, Whitman).

My question is whether you would have all tried to "reverse engineer" the numbers had Taylor not been as detailed about the impact of his proposals, or might have actually preferred getting less information (which would have sent an implicit message that it doesn't really matter because "all schools are good," etc.)?

They are required to provide these details. Also, it's not bad idea to get feedbacks to have the best possible solution in county even if not everyone will be happy with it. Scenario of one high FARMS ES adding to one HS and another to second HS was discussed. Not sure why it's not recommended. I guess Woodward famiies have work cut out for them to start email and meeting with BOE members one by one.

We are in WJ in all options and I think current recommendation is a mistake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given Woodward will host special program for Drama, Art, Media etc having 35-40% FARMS will result in high achiveing kids leaving for WJ or Stem program in Wheaton. It will result in fewer kids who can take higher level courses and they will have no choice.

STEM at Wheaton - is it a good program? Comparable to Blair? I am so upset they are dividing us in 6 regions.

Wheaton is the top high school for enrollment into UMD's School of Engineering. It's good - great principal.

Yes, that was due to picking good students from 6 DCC HS. I suspect situation will change now.