NYT Times interview with Brian Kohlberger’s sister

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Brian's stare and his eyes/focus are very strange. There's no way he didn't demonstrate odd behaviors before any heroin-related issues. We haven't heard if he received any psychological, medical, or special ed support as a child. If not, either parents didn't agree to needed services or his educational settings were very neglectful.

I mean, he certainly wasn't the only undiagnosed and untreated kid with ASD. Unfortunate, yes. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say neglectful, in part because there isn't much that treatment can do.

Admittedly, I work for a large, well funded school system. Our teachers notice and refer kids in kindergarten and first grade with similar or even less odd behaviors than Brian displayed. I have a hard time believing no one noticed or documented those behaviors and that he was allowed to attend college with no supports.

Or, a family in denial, like we see now with them.

I'm wondering if more than denial...as in rejection of a proposed evaluation and/or services.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Not understanding the hate for BK family. Even if he was a weirdo and possibly violent wtf were they supposed to do about it? You can’t jail a psychopath prior to the crime. And it’s debatable his parents had any clue since the people article mentions he called his mother regularly so not sure that him chatting with her on the phone that day proves absolutely anything. The judgment here is disgusting.

Don't be naive. It was 6am. Of course she knew. It's understandable they didn't know what would happen, but they certainly knew it after it happened.

He apparently frequently called his mom as early as 4 am. I think it's odd behavior, but it doesn't sound like it was out of the ordinary for him at all.

+1, he was obviously a troubled guy who engaged in some strange or frustrating behavior, but it's wild some people seem to to think that if you had a son call you at 6am, your first thought would be "oh my kid you murdered someone." Of course it wouldn't be, even if you knew your son had problems.

The sister explains that the killer had troubles galore (including heroin addiction), but had never been violent.

I'm no criminal psychologist, but the nature of the murder doesn't strike me as the type that would come from someone openly violent in everyday life.

The sister is also not a criminal psychologist. She's not an FBI profiler. She's a mental health counselor. It didn't occur to her that her brother, who had never hurt anyone before, would murder four people in cold blood. In fact her first response upon hearing about the murders was to worry that her brother, who sometimes doesn't have it all that together, might be targeted by the person who murdered people near his home. That is the most normal and predictable response if your totally non-violent brother lived near the site of a violent murder.

There have been other murders where the family *did* suspect their family member pretty early on. In those cases, there is almost always a violent history with the family member. In most cases the family member will have threatened or even harmed someone else in the family before. There is often a criminal history of assault or DV.

But you are telling me that if a family member who had never done anything violent before, ever (and the fact that Brian had no history of violence is backed up not only by his family but by friends, classmates, teachers, school records, employers, etc.) lived near the scene of a violent murder and drove an extremely common car that had some features in common with the killer's car, you would assume the family member was the murderer?

I do not think you would.

This totally non violent brother was arrested for stealing her phone for drugs and had been in and out of rehab for a heroin addiction. He’s not your average brother. Also called his parents “Mother” and “Father”. Something was very off about him.

I am the PP. I have a brother with addiction issues. He has some unhealthy and weird habits and I am aware he has mental health issues. But he has never yelled at me, tried to physically harm me, or done either of those to anyone in our family or to anyone else that I know of.

I feel like you don't understand how many people have the exact problems this guy had and never hurt anyone. The world is full of troubled people and most of them never even commit assault much less a cold-blooded murder of four strangers. It would never occur to me that anyone I knew had done this specific crime.

Nobody is saying that people with this profile will hurt someone. But the fact that this guy, with all his baggage, acted so strangely around that time. Odd phone calls, needing to leave ASAP, hide the car, some people might get suspicious if you were being honest.

He didn’t need to leave ASAP. He left after the school semester was over nearly a month after the murders. Multiple sources have said he talked to his mother all the time, and his phone records proved that. I don’t know that you can say driving a car across the country (during which he got stopped by police twice) is an attempt at hiding it. You also have to remember he was an adult in a PhD program, so all the weirdness reported by the people at WSU before the murders weren’t being reported to his family the way they might have for an undergrad. Did the family know he was certainly odd, of course, but there is nothing suggesting they immediately should have said you know those murders in Idaho, Bryan totally did that.

DP. There's a huge amount of space between believing innocence verses he "totally did it."

I'm saying he should have looked like a very credible suspect as those other details came to light.

Eventually he was, but it took time for those details to come to light. Also, it's not clear if you are talking about the police or his family. The police were actively investigating the case and they DID hone in on him as a suspect as more details came to light. They did not share these details with his family in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. All the family knew was that this crime (which honestly they may not even have thought about very much at all -- they lived so far away and Brian wasn't bringing it up with them) happened somewhat near him and he had a similar, but common car. That's it. None of his other behavior was out of the norm. He had a history of acting strange and being difficult, he continued to be strange and difficult, none of it read as a red flag to them.

The thing with the car cuts both ways. The reports on the car had been out for weeks, so at first you might think "oh no that's my son's/brother's car." But then... nothing. By the time he drive the car to Pennsylvania, they'd been investigating the crime for weeks and there as no indication Brian was a suspect. That would make him driving it cross country LESS suspicious, not more. And of course they stored it in the garage. It was winter in PA -- you put the car no one plans to use in the garage where you don't have to worry about it, and your cars that you are used to driving in PA winter you park outside so you have easy access. When I have driven my car cross country to my parents, that's also what we did with the car.

The family new the timing of the murders, the timing of the call, the vehicle being sought, and Kohlberger’s decision to drive back, which apparently was made after the public was informed of the car.

Other than the DNA, the family seemed to know most of what the police knew that was relevant. Certainly enough for an objective person to be suspicious.

Sure - if they already knew these things were all connected and that he was the murderer. For them it was just their weirdo son/brother calling like he usually does and driving home like he'd planned, in the car that he always drives.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Not understanding the hate for BK family. Even if he was a weirdo and possibly violent wtf were they supposed to do about it? You can’t jail a psychopath prior to the crime. And it’s debatable his parents had any clue since the people article mentions he called his mother regularly so not sure that him chatting with her on the phone that day proves absolutely anything. The judgment here is disgusting.

Don't be naive. It was 6am. Of course she knew. It's understandable they didn't know what would happen, but they certainly knew it after it happened.

He apparently frequently called his mom as early as 4 am. I think it's odd behavior, but it doesn't sound like it was out of the ordinary for him at all.

+1, he was obviously a troubled guy who engaged in some strange or frustrating behavior, but it's wild some people seem to to think that if you had a son call you at 6am, your first thought would be "oh my kid you murdered someone." Of course it wouldn't be, even if you knew your son had problems.

The sister explains that the killer had troubles galore (including heroin addiction), but had never been violent.

I'm no criminal psychologist, but the nature of the murder doesn't strike me as the type that would come from someone openly violent in everyday life.

The sister is also not a criminal psychologist. She's not an FBI profiler. She's a mental health counselor. It didn't occur to her that her brother, who had never hurt anyone before, would murder four people in cold blood. In fact her first response upon hearing about the murders was to worry that her brother, who sometimes doesn't have it all that together, might be targeted by the person who murdered people near his home. That is the most normal and predictable response if your totally non-violent brother lived near the site of a violent murder.

There have been other murders where the family *did* suspect their family member pretty early on. In those cases, there is almost always a violent history with the family member. In most cases the family member will have threatened or even harmed someone else in the family before. There is often a criminal history of assault or DV.

But you are telling me that if a family member who had never done anything violent before, ever (and the fact that Brian had no history of violence is backed up not only by his family but by friends, classmates, teachers, school records, employers, etc.) lived near the scene of a violent murder and drove an extremely common car that had some features in common with the killer's car, you would assume the family member was the murderer?

I do not think you would.

This totally non violent brother was arrested for stealing her phone for drugs and had been in and out of rehab for a heroin addiction. He’s not your average brother. Also called his parents “Mother” and “Father”. Something was very off about him.

I am the PP. I have a brother with addiction issues. He has some unhealthy and weird habits and I am aware he has mental health issues. But he has never yelled at me, tried to physically harm me, or done either of those to anyone in our family or to anyone else that I know of.

I feel like you don't understand how many people have the exact problems this guy had and never hurt anyone. The world is full of troubled people and most of them never even commit assault much less a cold-blooded murder of four strangers. It would never occur to me that anyone I knew had done this specific crime.

Nobody is saying that people with this profile will hurt someone. But the fact that this guy, with all his baggage, acted so strangely around that time. Odd phone calls, needing to leave ASAP, hide the car, some people might get suspicious if you were being honest.

He didn’t need to leave ASAP. He left after the school semester was over nearly a month after the murders. Multiple sources have said he talked to his mother all the time, and his phone records proved that. I don’t know that you can say driving a car across the country (during which he got stopped by police twice) is an attempt at hiding it. You also have to remember he was an adult in a PhD program, so all the weirdness reported by the people at WSU before the murders weren’t being reported to his family the way they might have for an undergrad. Did the family know he was certainly odd, of course, but there is nothing suggesting they immediately should have said you know those murders in Idaho, Bryan totally did that.

DP. There's a huge amount of space between believing innocence verses he "totally did it."

I'm saying he should have looked like a very credible suspect as those other details came to light.

+1 Absolutely. We've gone too far in allowing potentially violent individuals with known odd behaviors be allowed freedomsvwith no supports or controls. He had professors and classmates in high school and college who saw the strangeness. It's one reason he couldn't get dates. Too weird.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Not understanding the hate for BK family. Even if he was a weirdo and possibly violent wtf were they supposed to do about it? You can’t jail a psychopath prior to the crime. And it’s debatable his parents had any clue since the people article mentions he called his mother regularly so not sure that him chatting with her on the phone that day proves absolutely anything. The judgment here is disgusting.

Don't be naive. It was 6am. Of course she knew. It's understandable they didn't know what would happen, but they certainly knew it after it happened.

He apparently frequently called his mom as early as 4 am. I think it's odd behavior, but it doesn't sound like it was out of the ordinary for him at all.

+1, he was obviously a troubled guy who engaged in some strange or frustrating behavior, but it's wild some people seem to to think that if you had a son call you at 6am, your first thought would be "oh my kid you murdered someone." Of course it wouldn't be, even if you knew your son had problems.

The sister explains that the killer had troubles galore (including heroin addiction), but had never been violent.

I'm no criminal psychologist, but the nature of the murder doesn't strike me as the type that would come from someone openly violent in everyday life.

The sister is also not a criminal psychologist. She's not an FBI profiler. She's a mental health counselor. It didn't occur to her that her brother, who had never hurt anyone before, would murder four people in cold blood. In fact her first response upon hearing about the murders was to worry that her brother, who sometimes doesn't have it all that together, might be targeted by the person who murdered people near his home. That is the most normal and predictable response if your totally non-violent brother lived near the site of a violent murder.

There have been other murders where the family *did* suspect their family member pretty early on. In those cases, there is almost always a violent history with the family member. In most cases the family member will have threatened or even harmed someone else in the family before. There is often a criminal history of assault or DV.

But you are telling me that if a family member who had never done anything violent before, ever (and the fact that Brian had no history of violence is backed up not only by his family but by friends, classmates, teachers, school records, employers, etc.) lived near the scene of a violent murder and drove an extremely common car that had some features in common with the killer's car, you would assume the family member was the murderer?

I do not think you would.

This totally non violent brother was arrested for stealing her phone for drugs and had been in and out of rehab for a heroin addiction. He’s not your average brother. Also called his parents “Mother” and “Father”. Something was very off about him.

I am the PP. I have a brother with addiction issues. He has some unhealthy and weird habits and I am aware he has mental health issues. But he has never yelled at me, tried to physically harm me, or done either of those to anyone in our family or to anyone else that I know of.

I feel like you don't understand how many people have the exact problems this guy had and never hurt anyone. The world is full of troubled people and most of them never even commit assault much less a cold-blooded murder of four strangers. It would never occur to me that anyone I knew had done this specific crime.

Nobody is saying that people with this profile will hurt someone. But the fact that this guy, with all his baggage, acted so strangely around that time. Odd phone calls, needing to leave ASAP, hide the car, some people might get suspicious if you were being honest.

He didn’t need to leave ASAP. He left after the school semester was over nearly a month after the murders. Multiple sources have said he talked to his mother all the time, and his phone records proved that. I don’t know that you can say driving a car across the country (during which he got stopped by police twice) is an attempt at hiding it. You also have to remember he was an adult in a PhD program, so all the weirdness reported by the people at WSU before the murders weren’t being reported to his family the way they might have for an undergrad. Did the family know he was certainly odd, of course, but there is nothing suggesting they immediately should have said you know those murders in Idaho, Bryan totally did that.

DP. There's a huge amount of space between believing innocence verses he "totally did it."

I'm saying he should have looked like a very credible suspect as those other details came to light.

Eventually he was, but it took time for those details to come to light. Also, it's not clear if you are talking about the police or his family. The police were actively investigating the case and they DID hone in on him as a suspect as more details came to light. They did not share these details with his family in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. All the family knew was that this crime (which honestly they may not even have thought about very much at all -- they lived so far away and Brian wasn't bringing it up with them) happened somewhat near him and he had a similar, but common car. That's it. None of his other behavior was out of the norm. He had a history of acting strange and being difficult, he continued to be strange and difficult, none of it read as a red flag to them.

The thing with the car cuts both ways. The reports on the car had been out for weeks, so at first you might think "oh no that's my son's/brother's car." But then... nothing. By the time he drive the car to Pennsylvania, they'd been investigating the crime for weeks and there as no indication Brian was a suspect. That would make him driving it cross country LESS suspicious, not more. And of course they stored it in the garage. It was winter in PA -- you put the car no one plans to use in the garage where you don't have to worry about it, and your cars that you are used to driving in PA winter you park outside so you have easy access. When I have driven my car cross country to my parents, that's also what we did with the car.

The family new the timing of the murders, the timing of the call, the vehicle being sought, and Kohlberger’s decision to drive back, which apparently was made after the public was informed of the car.

Other than the DNA, the family seemed to know most of what the police knew that was relevant. Certainly enough for an objective person to be suspicious.

Sure - if they already knew these things were all connected and that he was the murderer. For them it was just their weirdo son/brother calling like he usually does and driving home like he'd planned, in the car that he always drives.

So they're really weird, too? Normal families wouldn't be that naive. Similar to the Reiner family taking Nick to a party.

[Anonymous]

Guys. He plead guilty and was sentenced. No need to keep debating random minutiae.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Brian's stare and his eyes/focus are very strange. There's no way he didn't demonstrate odd behaviors before any heroin-related issues. We haven't heard if he received any psychological, medical, or special ed support as a child. If not, either parents didn't agree to needed services or his educational settings were very neglectful.

I mean, he certainly wasn't the only undiagnosed and untreated kid with ASD. Unfortunate, yes. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say neglectful, in part because there isn't much that treatment can do.

Admittedly, I work for a large, well funded school system. Our teachers notice and refer kids in kindergarten and first grade with similar or even less odd behaviors than Brian displayed. I have a hard time believing no one noticed or documented those behaviors and that he was allowed to attend college with no supports.

Or, a family in denial, like we see now with them.

I'm wondering if more than denial...as in rejection of a proposed evaluation and/or services.

Plus it probably runs in the family. They are too close to see it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I have a weird and kind of aloof brother who has never been violent and I would never jump to the conclusion that he had committed a mass murder in a neighboring town, even if the police were looking for someone who also drove a blue rav-4.

If that brother had a history of mental health problems and called you early in the morning after the murder occurred, and then later suddenly wanted to get his car out of the state, you wouldn't have gotten suspicious?

Well, on a different note, I've got a beautiful bridge you might be interested in...

He didn't call the sister early in the morning. He called his mom. And for his mom, it was not "the morning after the murder occurred." It was just... a morning. She lived on the other side of the country and knew nothing about the murders at the time. He'd called at odd hours before. She had no reason to believe his reason for calling this time was related to a news event she had not even heard about.

And he didn't "suddenly" want to get his car out of state. He had told them previously he wanted to get some things out of their house and drive them to his new place in Idaho, and his dad had offered to fly out and do the drive with him because it was so long. His dad had already bought a ticket when the murders occurred and, again, the family was not thinking about any of this in the context of the murders because to them, the murders were a separate news event that had nothing to do with their family.

A white Hyundai Elantra is a very, very common car. It is likely you know a person who drives that car. White is the most common car color. Elantras are affordable and have good resale value, so there are a lot of them on the road. If I heard about a horrific crime involving a Subaru Forester or a Nissan Sentra, I would not immediately assume that one of the people I know with those cars committed the crime. I would think "huh that car is very popular, it's going to be really hard for them to find the killer." Like it wouldn't even cross my mind.

You are making the common error of thinking that a piece of information you have already learned (that Brian Kohlberger killed four people) should always have been obvious to everyone even before literally ANYONE knew, including his family. In fact the only reason the police honed in on Brian is because his DNA was found on the knife, something it took weeks to learn because of how long DNA analysis takes. Before that, no one was looking at him and the fact that he drove a white Elantra and lived near the murder scene was not viewed as relevant by anyone.

You're being far too quick to dismiss the significance of the car. This isn't a highly populated area, there are only about 90,000 people in the census area that covers the two towns and surrounding area. The number of white 2011-2015 Elantras there is probably very roughly on the order of 50 or so cars (and some are probably fleet vehicles). That puts him in a very small set of suspects before even factoring in the other things.

There were lots of reasons to be suspicious, if someone was open to considering them. But the family probably wasn't.

I was writing from the family's point of view. Of course the car made him a suspect earlier on in the investigation by the police. I am certain they had a list of everyone owning a white Hyundai Elantra and were cross referencing it against all other evidence from very early on. Which means it's likely Brian's name was known to the investigation from early on.

What I'm saying is that the family wouldn't be privy to any of that at all, and the car connection would likely not have seemed like a huge deal to them because it's not like it's an unusual car, and other than a passing thought of "oh Brian drives a car like that," and absent any other reason to believe he had done this, they would be unlikely to jump to the conclusion that he might have done it.

And yes, there might be some willful ignorance happening here. But no more than anyone would have. Especially living as far away as they did. Unlike people who lived in the area, they were not hearing about this case daily in local news. It would have been an occasional reference on national news they might come across. And probably no one they knew was talking about it, because their friends and neighbors wouldn't even have the connection of having a son/brother who lived near where the crime happened. So it's not like they were going to work and people were saying "oh have you about the car in that murder?" They were not thinking about the murder. It was very peripheral to their lives.

This case was big news everywhere and we got the usual complaints that if they weren’t pretty white girls we woldn’t be hearing about it so much. I think you are misremebering a lot.

I live in the DC area, remember hearing about it right after it happened, and then vaguely remember hearing about Brian's arrest. It was the holidays, it was an awful story, I have kids and was busy with end of year work stuff. I knew nothing about the investigation until I listened to a podcast on it later and I don't even remember hearing about the car (again, other side of the country, I'm not going to go out of my way to take note of something like that because I assume it has nothing to do with me). No one I worked with mentioned this case to me even one time, none of my chat groups were talking about it. It was a sad headline in the newspaper one day and then out of my mind.

I think people who obsess over these cases don't understand that most people don't.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1094062.page

Weird that you missed this one since it went on for quite awhile but managed to find this random post about the NYT interview.

The was probably where I saw the news of the murders, but I did not follow the thread. I picked up on this thread because I recently listened to the ABC news podcast about the murders so I recognized Brian's name from that. But in November/December of 2022, this was not on my radar at all.

Again, most people are not breathlessly following every major murder case. There are people who do this as a hobby. Most of us don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a weird and kind of aloof brother who has never been violent and I would never jump to the conclusion that he had committed a mass murder in a neighboring town, even if the police were looking for someone who also drove a blue rav-4.

If that brother had a history of mental health problems and called you early in the morning after the murder occurred, and then later suddenly wanted to get his car out of the state, you wouldn't have gotten suspicious?

Well, on a different note, I've got a beautiful bridge you might be interested in...

He didn't call the sister early in the morning. He called his mom. And for his mom, it was not "the morning after the murder occurred." It was just... a morning. She lived on the other side of the country and knew nothing about the murders at the time. He'd called at odd hours before. She had no reason to believe his reason for calling this time was related to a news event she had not even heard about.

And he didn't "suddenly" want to get his car out of state. He had told them previously he wanted to get some things out of their house and drive them to his new place in Idaho, and his dad had offered to fly out and do the drive with him because it was so long. His dad had already bought a ticket when the murders occurred and, again, the family was not thinking about any of this in the context of the murders because to them, the murders were a separate news event that had nothing to do with their family.

A white Hyundai Elantra is a very, very common car. It is likely you know a person who drives that car. White is the most common car color. Elantras are affordable and have good resale value, so there are a lot of them on the road. If I heard about a horrific crime involving a Subaru Forester or a Nissan Sentra, I would not immediately assume that one of the people I know with those cars committed the crime. I would think "huh that car is very popular, it's going to be really hard for them to find the killer." Like it wouldn't even cross my mind.

You are making the common error of thinking that a piece of information you have already learned (that Brian Kohlberger killed four people) should always have been obvious to everyone even before literally ANYONE knew, including his family. In fact the only reason the police honed in on Brian is because his DNA was found on the knife, something it took weeks to learn because of how long DNA analysis takes. Before that, no one was looking at him and the fact that he drove a white Elantra and lived near the murder scene was not viewed as relevant by anyone.

You're being far too quick to dismiss the significance of the car. This isn't a highly populated area, there are only about 90,000 people in the census area that covers the two towns and surrounding area. The number of white 2011-2015 Elantras there is probably very roughly on the order of 50 or so cars (and some are probably fleet vehicles). That puts him in a very small set of suspects before even factoring in the other things.

There were lots of reasons to be suspicious, if someone was open to considering them. But the family probably wasn't.

2011-2015 wasn’t the date range put out, it was 2011-2013. It defies logic to suggest that the family should have done something with the information that he drove a white 2015 Elantra, or done some research into how many white Elantras were owned by people within that census area and assumed that the police were really looking for a 2015 and not a 2011-2013 model.

Fair... kind of. But I think everyone knows different years typically look similar.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Not understanding the hate for BK family. Even if he was a weirdo and possibly violent wtf were they supposed to do about it? You can’t jail a psychopath prior to the crime. And it’s debatable his parents had any clue since the people article mentions he called his mother regularly so not sure that him chatting with her on the phone that day proves absolutely anything. The judgment here is disgusting.

Don't be naive. It was 6am. Of course she knew. It's understandable they didn't know what would happen, but they certainly knew it after it happened.

He apparently frequently called his mom as early as 4 am. I think it's odd behavior, but it doesn't sound like it was out of the ordinary for him at all.

+1, he was obviously a troubled guy who engaged in some strange or frustrating behavior, but it's wild some people seem to to think that if you had a son call you at 6am, your first thought would be "oh my kid you murdered someone." Of course it wouldn't be, even if you knew your son had problems.

The sister explains that the killer had troubles galore (including heroin addiction), but had never been violent.

I'm no criminal psychologist, but the nature of the murder doesn't strike me as the type that would come from someone openly violent in everyday life.

The sister is also not a criminal psychologist. She's not an FBI profiler. She's a mental health counselor. It didn't occur to her that her brother, who had never hurt anyone before, would murder four people in cold blood. In fact her first response upon hearing about the murders was to worry that her brother, who sometimes doesn't have it all that together, might be targeted by the person who murdered people near his home. That is the most normal and predictable response if your totally non-violent brother lived near the site of a violent murder.

There have been other murders where the family *did* suspect their family member pretty early on. In those cases, there is almost always a violent history with the family member. In most cases the family member will have threatened or even harmed someone else in the family before. There is often a criminal history of assault or DV.

But you are telling me that if a family member who had never done anything violent before, ever (and the fact that Brian had no history of violence is backed up not only by his family but by friends, classmates, teachers, school records, employers, etc.) lived near the scene of a violent murder and drove an extremely common car that had some features in common with the killer's car, you would assume the family member was the murderer?

I do not think you would.

This totally non violent brother was arrested for stealing her phone for drugs and had been in and out of rehab for a heroin addiction. He’s not your average brother. Also called his parents “Mother” and “Father”. Something was very off about him.

I am the PP. I have a brother with addiction issues. He has some unhealthy and weird habits and I am aware he has mental health issues. But he has never yelled at me, tried to physically harm me, or done either of those to anyone in our family or to anyone else that I know of.

I feel like you don't understand how many people have the exact problems this guy had and never hurt anyone. The world is full of troubled people and most of them never even commit assault much less a cold-blooded murder of four strangers. It would never occur to me that anyone I knew had done this specific crime.

Nobody is saying that people with this profile will hurt someone. But the fact that this guy, with all his baggage, acted so strangely around that time. Odd phone calls, needing to leave ASAP, hide the car, some people might get suspicious if you were being honest.

He didn’t need to leave ASAP. He left after the school semester was over nearly a month after the murders. Multiple sources have said he talked to his mother all the time, and his phone records proved that. I don’t know that you can say driving a car across the country (during which he got stopped by police twice) is an attempt at hiding it. You also have to remember he was an adult in a PhD program, so all the weirdness reported by the people at WSU before the murders weren’t being reported to his family the way they might have for an undergrad. Did the family know he was certainly odd, of course, but there is nothing suggesting they immediately should have said you know those murders in Idaho, Bryan totally did that.

DP. There's a huge amount of space between believing innocence verses he "totally did it."

I'm saying he should have looked like a very credible suspect as those other details came to light.

Eventually he was, but it took time for those details to come to light. Also, it's not clear if you are talking about the police or his family. The police were actively investigating the case and they DID hone in on him as a suspect as more details came to light. They did not share these details with his family in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. All the family knew was that this crime (which honestly they may not even have thought about very much at all -- they lived so far away and Brian wasn't bringing it up with them) happened somewhat near him and he had a similar, but common car. That's it. None of his other behavior was out of the norm. He had a history of acting strange and being difficult, he continued to be strange and difficult, none of it read as a red flag to them.

The thing with the car cuts both ways. The reports on the car had been out for weeks, so at first you might think "oh no that's my son's/brother's car." But then... nothing. By the time he drive the car to Pennsylvania, they'd been investigating the crime for weeks and there as no indication Brian was a suspect. That would make him driving it cross country LESS suspicious, not more. And of course they stored it in the garage. It was winter in PA -- you put the car no one plans to use in the garage where you don't have to worry about it, and your cars that you are used to driving in PA winter you park outside so you have easy access. When I have driven my car cross country to my parents, that's also what we did with the car.

The family new the timing of the murders, the timing of the call, the vehicle being sought, and Kohlberger’s decision to drive back, which apparently was made after the public was informed of the car.

Other than the DNA, the family seemed to know most of what the police knew that was relevant. Certainly enough for an objective person to be suspicious.

Sure - if they already knew these things were all connected and that he was the murderer. For them it was just their weirdo son/brother calling like he usually does and driving home like he'd planned, in the car that he always drives.

So they're really weird, too? Normal families wouldn't be that naive. Similar to the Reiner family taking Nick to a party.

What you mean by "normal families" is not actually the norm. In reality, most families have members with mental health issues, addiction, trouble finding or keeping work, etc. Like I'm an UMC lawyer in DC and I have a brother who has been in and out of rehab and a few cousins with similar issues. My husband's brother has mental health problems and is still mostly reliant on their parents in his 50s. A good and very successful friend of mine has a younger sibling who is estranged from their family and a parent who drinks too much. Another successful friend has divorced parents and her dad has lived in prison. And so on.

I also know people whose families are "normal" in the way you mean, like no mental illness, no addiction, no dysfunction, no conflict. But they are the minority. And again, I am UMC with a good job and a happy family. In middle class and working class neighborhoods, it's even more common. This is life. Untreated special needs, family conflict, dysfunctional family systems, etc. That's "normal" in the sense that it's how most people live.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Brian's stare and his eyes/focus are very strange. There's no way he didn't demonstrate odd behaviors before any heroin-related issues. We haven't heard if he received any psychological, medical, or special ed support as a child. If not, either parents didn't agree to needed services or his educational settings were very neglectful.

I mean, he certainly wasn't the only undiagnosed and untreated kid with ASD. Unfortunate, yes. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say neglectful, in part because there isn't much that treatment can do.

Admittedly, I work for a large, well funded school system. Our teachers notice and refer kids in kindergarten and first grade with similar or even less odd behaviors than Brian displayed. I have a hard time believing no one noticed or documented those behaviors and that he was allowed to attend college with no supports.

Wasn't the mom a special ed TA?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a weird and kind of aloof brother who has never been violent and I would never jump to the conclusion that he had committed a mass murder in a neighboring town, even if the police were looking for someone who also drove a blue rav-4.

If that brother had a history of mental health problems and called you early in the morning after the murder occurred, and then later suddenly wanted to get his car out of the state, you wouldn't have gotten suspicious?

Well, on a different note, I've got a beautiful bridge you might be interested in...

He didn't call the sister early in the morning. He called his mom. And for his mom, it was not "the morning after the murder occurred." It was just... a morning. She lived on the other side of the country and knew nothing about the murders at the time. He'd called at odd hours before. She had no reason to believe his reason for calling this time was related to a news event she had not even heard about.

And he didn't "suddenly" want to get his car out of state. He had told them previously he wanted to get some things out of their house and drive them to his new place in Idaho, and his dad had offered to fly out and do the drive with him because it was so long. His dad had already bought a ticket when the murders occurred and, again, the family was not thinking about any of this in the context of the murders because to them, the murders were a separate news event that had nothing to do with their family.

If I had a very odd brother who drove a white Elantra, regardless of model year, I'd be highly suspicious.

A white Hyundai Elantra is a very, very common car. It is likely you know a person who drives that car. White is the most common car color. Elantras are affordable and have good resale value, so there are a lot of them on the road. If I heard about a horrific crime involving a Subaru Forester or a Nissan Sentra, I would not immediately assume that one of the people I know with those cars committed the crime. I would think "huh that car is very popular, it's going to be really hard for them to find the killer." Like it wouldn't even cross my mind.

You are making the common error of thinking that a piece of information you have already learned (that Brian Kohlberger killed four people) should always have been obvious to everyone even before literally ANYONE knew, including his family. In fact the only reason the police honed in on Brian is because his DNA was found on the knife, something it took weeks to learn because of how long DNA analysis takes. Before that, no one was looking at him and the fact that he drove a white Elantra and lived near the murder scene was not viewed as relevant by anyone.

You're being far too quick to dismiss the significance of the car. This isn't a highly populated area, there are only about 90,000 people in the census area that covers the two towns and surrounding area. The number of white 2011-2015 Elantras there is probably very roughly on the order of 50 or so cars (and some are probably fleet vehicles). That puts him in a very small set of suspects before even factoring in the other things.

There were lots of reasons to be suspicious, if someone was open to considering them. But the family probably wasn't.

2011-2015 wasn’t the date range put out, it was 2011-2013. It defies logic to suggest that the family should have done something with the information that he drove a white 2015 Elantra, or done some research into how many white Elantras were owned by people within that census area and assumed that the police were really looking for a 2015 and not a 2011-2013 model.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a weird and kind of aloof brother who has never been violent and I would never jump to the conclusion that he had committed a mass murder in a neighboring town, even if the police were looking for someone who also drove a blue rav-4.

If that brother had a history of mental health problems and called you early in the morning after the murder occurred, and then later suddenly wanted to get his car out of the state, you wouldn't have gotten suspicious?

Well, on a different note, I've got a beautiful bridge you might be interested in...

He didn't call the sister early in the morning. He called his mom. And for his mom, it was not "the morning after the murder occurred." It was just... a morning. She lived on the other side of the country and knew nothing about the murders at the time. He'd called at odd hours before. She had no reason to believe his reason for calling this time was related to a news event she had not even heard about.

And he didn't "suddenly" want to get his car out of state. He had told them previously he wanted to get some things out of their house and drive them to his new place in Idaho, and his dad had offered to fly out and do the drive with him because it was so long. His dad had already bought a ticket when the murders occurred and, again, the family was not thinking about any of this in the context of the murders because to them, the murders were a separate news event that had nothing to do with their family.

If I had a very odd brother who drove a white Elantra, regardless of model year, I'd be highly suspicious.

A white Hyundai Elantra is a very, very common car. It is likely you know a person who drives that car. White is the most common car color. Elantras are affordable and have good resale value, so there are a lot of them on the road. If I heard about a horrific crime involving a Subaru Forester or a Nissan Sentra, I would not immediately assume that one of the people I know with those cars committed the crime. I would think "huh that car is very popular, it's going to be really hard for them to find the killer." Like it wouldn't even cross my mind.

You are making the common error of thinking that a piece of information you have already learned (that Brian Kohlberger killed four people) should always have been obvious to everyone even before literally ANYONE knew, including his family. In fact the only reason the police honed in on Brian is because his DNA was found on the knife, something it took weeks to learn because of how long DNA analysis takes. Before that, no one was looking at him and the fact that he drove a white Elantra and lived near the murder scene was not viewed as relevant by anyone.

You're being far too quick to dismiss the significance of the car. This isn't a highly populated area, there are only about 90,000 people in the census area that covers the two towns and surrounding area. The number of white 2011-2015 Elantras there is probably very roughly on the order of 50 or so cars (and some are probably fleet vehicles). That puts him in a very small set of suspects before even factoring in the other things.

There were lots of reasons to be suspicious, if someone was open to considering them. But the family probably wasn't.

2011-2015 wasn’t the date range put out, it was 2011-2013. It defies logic to suggest that the family should have done something with the information that he drove a white 2015 Elantra, or done some research into how many white Elantras were owned by people within that census area and assumed that the police were really looking for a 2015 and not a 2011-2013 model.

If I had a very odd brother who drove a white Elantra, regardless of model year, I'd be highly suspicious.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Not understanding the hate for BK family. Even if he was a weirdo and possibly violent wtf were they supposed to do about it? You can’t jail a psychopath prior to the crime. And it’s debatable his parents had any clue since the people article mentions he called his mother regularly so not sure that him chatting with her on the phone that day proves absolutely anything. The judgment here is disgusting.

Don't be naive. It was 6am. Of course she knew. It's understandable they didn't know what would happen, but they certainly knew it after it happened.

He apparently frequently called his mom as early as 4 am. I think it's odd behavior, but it doesn't sound like it was out of the ordinary for him at all.

+1, he was obviously a troubled guy who engaged in some strange or frustrating behavior, but it's wild some people seem to to think that if you had a son call you at 6am, your first thought would be "oh my kid you murdered someone." Of course it wouldn't be, even if you knew your son had problems.

The sister explains that the killer had troubles galore (including heroin addiction), but had never been violent.

I'm no criminal psychologist, but the nature of the murder doesn't strike me as the type that would come from someone openly violent in everyday life.

The sister is also not a criminal psychologist. She's not an FBI profiler. She's a mental health counselor. It didn't occur to her that her brother, who had never hurt anyone before, would murder four people in cold blood. In fact her first response upon hearing about the murders was to worry that her brother, who sometimes doesn't have it all that together, might be targeted by the person who murdered people near his home. That is the most normal and predictable response if your totally non-violent brother lived near the site of a violent murder.

There have been other murders where the family *did* suspect their family member pretty early on. In those cases, there is almost always a violent history with the family member. In most cases the family member will have threatened or even harmed someone else in the family before. There is often a criminal history of assault or DV.

But you are telling me that if a family member who had never done anything violent before, ever (and the fact that Brian had no history of violence is backed up not only by his family but by friends, classmates, teachers, school records, employers, etc.) lived near the scene of a violent murder and drove an extremely common car that had some features in common with the killer's car, you would assume the family member was the murderer?

I do not think you would.

This totally non violent brother was arrested for stealing her phone for drugs and had been in and out of rehab for a heroin addiction. He’s not your average brother. Also called his parents “Mother” and “Father”. Something was very off about him.

I am the PP. I have a brother with addiction issues. He has some unhealthy and weird habits and I am aware he has mental health issues. But he has never yelled at me, tried to physically harm me, or done either of those to anyone in our family or to anyone else that I know of.

I feel like you don't understand how many people have the exact problems this guy had and never hurt anyone. The world is full of troubled people and most of them never even commit assault much less a cold-blooded murder of four strangers. It would never occur to me that anyone I knew had done this specific crime.

Nobody is saying that people with this profile will hurt someone. But the fact that this guy, with all his baggage, acted so strangely around that time. Odd phone calls, needing to leave ASAP, hide the car, some people might get suspicious if you were being honest.

He didn’t need to leave ASAP. He left after the school semester was over nearly a month after the murders. Multiple sources have said he talked to his mother all the time, and his phone records proved that. I don’t know that you can say driving a car across the country (during which he got stopped by police twice) is an attempt at hiding it. You also have to remember he was an adult in a PhD program, so all the weirdness reported by the people at WSU before the murders weren’t being reported to his family the way they might have for an undergrad. Did the family know he was certainly odd, of course, but there is nothing suggesting they immediately should have said you know those murders in Idaho, Bryan totally did that.

DP. There's a huge amount of space between believing innocence verses he "totally did it."

I'm saying he should have looked like a very credible suspect as those other details came to light.

Eventually he was, but it took time for those details to come to light. Also, it's not clear if you are talking about the police or his family. The police were actively investigating the case and they DID hone in on him as a suspect as more details came to light. They did not share these details with his family in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. All the family knew was that this crime (which honestly they may not even have thought about very much at all -- they lived so far away and Brian wasn't bringing it up with them) happened somewhat near him and he had a similar, but common car. That's it. None of his other behavior was out of the norm. He had a history of acting strange and being difficult, he continued to be strange and difficult, none of it read as a red flag to them.

The thing with the car cuts both ways. The reports on the car had been out for weeks, so at first you might think "oh no that's my son's/brother's car." But then... nothing. By the time he drive the car to Pennsylvania, they'd been investigating the crime for weeks and there as no indication Brian was a suspect. That would make him driving it cross country LESS suspicious, not more. And of course they stored it in the garage. It was winter in PA -- you put the car no one plans to use in the garage where you don't have to worry about it, and your cars that you are used to driving in PA winter you park outside so you have easy access. When I have driven my car cross country to my parents, that's also what we did with the car.

The family new the timing of the murders, the timing of the call, the vehicle being sought, and Kohlberger’s decision to drive back, which apparently was made after the public was informed of the car.

Other than the DNA, the family seemed to know most of what the police knew that was relevant. Certainly enough for an objective person to be suspicious.

Sure - if they already knew these things were all connected and that he was the murderer. For them it was just their weirdo son/brother calling like he usually does and driving home like he'd planned, in the car that he always drives.

So they're really weird, too? Normal families wouldn't be that naive. Similar to the Reiner family taking Nick to a party.

What you mean by "normal families" is not actually the norm. In reality, most families have members with mental health issues, addiction, trouble finding or keeping work, etc. Like I'm an UMC lawyer in DC and I have a brother who has been in and out of rehab and a few cousins with similar issues. My husband's brother has mental health problems and is still mostly reliant on their parents in his 50s. A good and very successful friend of mine has a younger sibling who is estranged from their family and a parent who drinks too much. Another successful friend has divorced parents and her dad has lived in prison. And so on.

I also know people whose families are "normal" in the way you mean, like no mental illness, no addiction, no dysfunction, no conflict. But they are the minority. And again, I am UMC with a good job and a happy family. In middle class and working class neighborhoods, it's even more common. This is life. Untreated special needs, family conflict, dysfunctional family systems, etc. That's "normal" in the sense that it's how most people live.

PP here. I do understand what you mean and appreciate your sharing. I just can't get over why he doesn't appear to have a history of support during his school years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a weird and kind of aloof brother who has never been violent and I would never jump to the conclusion that he had committed a mass murder in a neighboring town, even if the police were looking for someone who also drove a blue rav-4.

If that brother had a history of mental health problems and called you early in the morning after the murder occurred, and then later suddenly wanted to get his car out of the state, you wouldn't have gotten suspicious?

Well, on a different note, I've got a beautiful bridge you might be interested in...

He didn't call the sister early in the morning. He called his mom. And for his mom, it was not "the morning after the murder occurred." It was just... a morning. She lived on the other side of the country and knew nothing about the murders at the time. He'd called at odd hours before. She had no reason to believe his reason for calling this time was related to a news event she had not even heard about.

And he didn't "suddenly" want to get his car out of state. He had told them previously he wanted to get some things out of their house and drive them to his new place in Idaho, and his dad had offered to fly out and do the drive with him because it was so long. His dad had already bought a ticket when the murders occurred and, again, the family was not thinking about any of this in the context of the murders because to them, the murders were a separate news event that had nothing to do with their family.

If I had a very odd brother who drove a white Elantra, regardless of model year, I'd be highly suspicious.

A white Hyundai Elantra is a very, very common car. It is likely you know a person who drives that car. White is the most common car color. Elantras are affordable and have good resale value, so there are a lot of them on the road. If I heard about a horrific crime involving a Subaru Forester or a Nissan Sentra, I would not immediately assume that one of the people I know with those cars committed the crime. I would think "huh that car is very popular, it's going to be really hard for them to find the killer." Like it wouldn't even cross my mind.

You are making the common error of thinking that a piece of information you have already learned (that Brian Kohlberger killed four people) should always have been obvious to everyone even before literally ANYONE knew, including his family. In fact the only reason the police honed in on Brian is because his DNA was found on the knife, something it took weeks to learn because of how long DNA analysis takes. Before that, no one was looking at him and the fact that he drove a white Elantra and lived near the murder scene was not viewed as relevant by anyone.

You're being far too quick to dismiss the significance of the car. This isn't a highly populated area, there are only about 90,000 people in the census area that covers the two towns and surrounding area. The number of white 2011-2015 Elantras there is probably very roughly on the order of 50 or so cars (and some are probably fleet vehicles). That puts him in a very small set of suspects before even factoring in the other things.

There were lots of reasons to be suspicious, if someone was open to considering them. But the family probably wasn't.

2011-2015 wasn’t the date range put out, it was 2011-2013. It defies logic to suggest that the family should have done something with the information that he drove a white 2015 Elantra, or done some research into how many white Elantras were owned by people within that census area and assumed that the police were really looking for a 2015 and not a 2011-2013 model.

If I had a very odd brother who drove a white Elantra, regardless of model year, I'd be highly suspicious.

You'd be suspicious that he stabbed four college kids in the middle of the night? Really? It would be extremely hard for me to believe that anyone I was related to or close friends with had committed this crime unless I'd seen them be violent before. This is a very, very heinous crime. I can't imagine anyone doing this, not even the oddest or most troubled person I know. It is unfathomable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a weird and kind of aloof brother who has never been violent and I would never jump to the conclusion that he had committed a mass murder in a neighboring town, even if the police were looking for someone who also drove a blue rav-4.

If that brother had a history of mental health problems and called you early in the morning after the murder occurred, and then later suddenly wanted to get his car out of the state, you wouldn't have gotten suspicious?

Well, on a different note, I've got a beautiful bridge you might be interested in...

He didn't call the sister early in the morning. He called his mom. And for his mom, it was not "the morning after the murder occurred." It was just... a morning. She lived on the other side of the country and knew nothing about the murders at the time. He'd called at odd hours before. She had no reason to believe his reason for calling this time was related to a news event she had not even heard about.

And he didn't "suddenly" want to get his car out of state. He had told them previously he wanted to get some things out of their house and drive them to his new place in Idaho, and his dad had offered to fly out and do the drive with him because it was so long. His dad had already bought a ticket when the murders occurred and, again, the family was not thinking about any of this in the context of the murders because to them, the murders were a separate news event that had nothing to do with their family.

If I had a very odd brother who drove a white Elantra, regardless of model year, I'd be highly suspicious.

A white Hyundai Elantra is a very, very common car. It is likely you know a person who drives that car. White is the most common car color. Elantras are affordable and have good resale value, so there are a lot of them on the road. If I heard about a horrific crime involving a Subaru Forester or a Nissan Sentra, I would not immediately assume that one of the people I know with those cars committed the crime. I would think "huh that car is very popular, it's going to be really hard for them to find the killer." Like it wouldn't even cross my mind.

You are making the common error of thinking that a piece of information you have already learned (that Brian Kohlberger killed four people) should always have been obvious to everyone even before literally ANYONE knew, including his family. In fact the only reason the police honed in on Brian is because his DNA was found on the knife, something it took weeks to learn because of how long DNA analysis takes. Before that, no one was looking at him and the fact that he drove a white Elantra and lived near the murder scene was not viewed as relevant by anyone.

You're being far too quick to dismiss the significance of the car. This isn't a highly populated area, there are only about 90,000 people in the census area that covers the two towns and surrounding area. The number of white 2011-2015 Elantras there is probably very roughly on the order of 50 or so cars (and some are probably fleet vehicles). That puts him in a very small set of suspects before even factoring in the other things.

There were lots of reasons to be suspicious, if someone was open to considering them. But the family probably wasn't.

2011-2015 wasn’t the date range put out, it was 2011-2013. It defies logic to suggest that the family should have done something with the information that he drove a white 2015 Elantra, or done some research into how many white Elantras were owned by people within that census area and assumed that the police were really looking for a 2015 and not a 2011-2013 model.

If I had a very odd brother who drove a white Elantra, regardless of model year, I'd be highly suspicious.

You'd be suspicious that he stabbed four college kids in the middle of the night? Really? It would be extremely hard for me to believe that anyone I was related to or close friends with had committed this crime unless I'd seen them be violent before. This is a very, very heinous crime. I can't imagine anyone doing this, not even the oddest or most troubled person I know. It is unfathomable.

Yet it happened, suggesting your imagination shouldn't be trusted.

I don't know how you wouldn't suspect it, if/once you're able to look at things more objectively.

You're right year was a little off. When they release an announcement that they're looking for a car, the year is regularly off, so I would always take the year as a rough guess. So at least from my perspective, the car alone would be enough to start having to think about him- even if he was a friend or brother- as a credible suspect. Even if it is initially from the perspective of how the police might rightly or wrongly narrow in on him.

The idea that is would be unfathomable to you is, frankly, unfathomable to me.