1530 SAT at McLean High not enough for UVA now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think it's ridiculous that a child who get B's in DE and AP classes and is taking advanced math that is second and third year mathematics college major is going to end up in jmu , odu or Mary Washington. Maybe uva isnt the right fit but where does a b ap/de student who has taken all second and third math college level courses go? Maybe that is the real question.

B students go to JMU.

Or GMu where my DD went. Employed by Microsoft before graduating and had summer internships every summer. Fabulous education at a great price.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's your zip code.

This. From McLean and Langley, you need a 4.5 on top of that SAT score. Highest rigor, highest grades. No room for an emotional breakup, friend troubles, personal issues to work through, or family struggle. Be perfect since age 14 or no UVA for you.

Which means there are lots of parents helicoptering and snow plowing to make this happen and they have all the money they need to support that.

If you have more money you don’t obsess about your kids going to an in-state school like UVA. You let your kids enjoy life a bit more and go to another in-state school, a SLAC or an OOS flagship, comfortable that their basic smarts and social skills will serve them well later.

You must be posting from the south. That’s how southern wealthy parents act, not DC/Northern Virginia parents.

We are in NoVa and not rich, but we saw the writing on the wall. UVA wasn’t going to be for our DC, who had some transcript/GPA things that would have been issues at UVA. We went the SLAC route and with aid ended up being less than what we would have paid for UVA.

Similar story here, DC took a very rigorous STEM focused courseload but didn’t want to play UVA’s language game. Headed to a top SLAC instead. Who knows whether he would have gotten into UVA. Pulled his app when he got in the SLAC ED.

"language game" - aka it was never the right fit and that's fine!

DP.
Disagree that a state flagship should have such an arbitrary standard on world languages if they are trying to attract top students, particularly top STEM students.

It's not arbitrary. Any professional college counselor will tell you that if you are aiming for T50, you vastly strengthen your application with four years of foreign language. Princeton requires four, etc. https://www.careervillage.org/questions/1013271/do-i-need-4-years-of-a-foreign-language-in-high-school-to-go-to-a-top-college#:~:text=Most%20top%20colleges%20prefer%20applicants,give%20you%20a%20competitive%20edge.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I really think it's ridiculous that a child who get B's in DE and AP classes and is taking advanced math that is second and third year mathematics college major is going to end up in jmu , odu or Mary Washington. Maybe uva isnt the right fit but where does a b ap/de student who has taken all second and third math college level courses go? Maybe that is the real question.

3.98/4.5, 1560 9 APs and HS math through Multi/Linear was waitlisted at UVA in 2023. Accepted at WM, UMD (merit), Pitt, Lehigh (merit), BU (merit), Ohio St.(merit) CWRU (merit) and UMN (merit). Plenty of state flagships will offer merit to bring COA near or better than UVA in-state.

ok very interesting, where did they end up? WM looks interesting but I am not sure if my kid would like being at a liberal arts school to double major in math and cs.

Take another look at W&M. It has a good reputation and very solid CS and math offerings.

W&M is a great school but doesn’t hand out As like a lot of other schools do. Expect a good number of Bs or lower if majoring in math. Along with Econ and Physics the 3 lowest GPA subjects at the college. Still won’t hurt his chances for grad school or work as it is well known.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:JMU, ODU and Mary Washington are also fine schools, OP.

those school are sub 1200 sat averages stop trolling

False: SCHEV reports the students at JMU
last fall had a 1330 at the 75th percentile and a 1280 at the median; U of Mary Washington had a 1340 at the 75th and a 1269 at the median; ODU had a 1270 at the 75th and a 1190 at the 50th.

Come on, only 14% at JMU submitted test scores, and those top scorers only had 1280 median. Average across all students they are the 1100s at best.

Irrelevant for most NOVA parents of kids who will submit. Those are the stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why does everyone keep saying you need four years of foreign language for UVA? You don’t! That has been debunked time and again.

Because UVA says it recommends four years in its admissions materials and because every resource will recommend it if you are applying to top schools. https://www.ivycoach.com/the-ivy-coach-blog/college-admissions/how-to-get-into-the-university-of-virginia/

[Anonymous]

OP I hear you, and yes, things have changed drastically.

I'm not sure the SAT is problematic but the 4.2 weighted is not enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What GPA/SAT is needed if your kid goes to Lewis, Mount Vernon, or Annandale?

Why are you singling out these schools? My kids go to Justice (which I believe is the only Title I High School in FCPS), and their scattergram shows an average GPA of 4.45. The OP said their child had a 4.2 at the end of their sophomore year. As other posters have pointed out, they are on track for a 4.4 or higher.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's your zip code.

This. From McLean and Langley, you need a 4.5 on top of that SAT score. Highest rigor, highest grades. No room for an emotional breakup, friend troubles, personal issues to work through, or family struggle. Be perfect since age 14 or no UVA for you.

Which means there are lots of parents helicoptering and snow plowing to make this happen and they have all the money they need to support that.

If you have more money you don’t obsess about your kids going to an in-state school like UVA. You let your kids enjoy life a bit more and go to another in-state school, a SLAC or an OOS flagship, comfortable that their basic smarts and social skills will serve them well later.

You must be posting from the south. That’s how southern wealthy parents act, not DC/Northern Virginia parents.

We are in NoVa and not rich, but we saw the writing on the wall. UVA wasn’t going to be for our DC, who had some transcript/GPA things that would have been issues at UVA. We went the SLAC route and with aid ended up being less than what we would have paid for UVA.

Similar story here, DC took a very rigorous STEM focused courseload but didn’t want to play UVA’s language game. Headed to a top SLAC instead. Who knows whether he would have gotten into UVA. Pulled his app when he got in the SLAC ED.

"language game" - aka it was never the right fit and that's fine!

DP.
Disagree that a state flagship should have such an arbitrary standard on world languages if they are trying to attract top students, particularly top STEM students.

It seems very basic and incurious to denigrate foreign languages.

For upper class people, fluency in other languages is a sign of being educated and cultured. In the lower class, it’s often valued as well. Why do middle class people convince themselves it’s not a good thing to study languages?

Of course it's a good thing, but so is studying advanced science. Sometimes both don't fit a kid's interests or literally fit into the high school schedule. When that happens, why is foreign language automatically deemed better by UVA? That's the point.

Think about it this way - if a student is super into languages and humanities, so didn't take any difficult science or math classes, they probably wouldn't get into UVA either, right? Even if they spoke 5 languages and won an award for their poetry? It's not a preference for language vs science - it's a preference to take rigorous classes in all core subjects.

You don’t have a stem kid do you? This concept sounds good in theory but falls apart when putting together a high school schedule where AP sciences are two periods because labs.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's your zip code.

This. From McLean and Langley, you need a 4.5 on top of that SAT score. Highest rigor, highest grades. No room for an emotional breakup, friend troubles, personal issues to work through, or family struggle. Be perfect since age 14 or no UVA for you.

Which means there are lots of parents helicoptering and snow plowing to make this happen and they have all the money they need to support that.

If you have more money you don’t obsess about your kids going to an in-state school like UVA. You let your kids enjoy life a bit more and go to another in-state school, a SLAC or an OOS flagship, comfortable that their basic smarts and social skills will serve them well later.

You must be posting from the south. That’s how southern wealthy parents act, not DC/Northern Virginia parents.

We are in NoVa and not rich, but we saw the writing on the wall. UVA wasn’t going to be for our DC, who had some transcript/GPA things that would have been issues at UVA. We went the SLAC route and with aid ended up being less than what we would have paid for UVA.

Similar story here, DC took a very rigorous STEM focused courseload but didn’t want to play UVA’s language game. Headed to a top SLAC instead. Who knows whether he would have gotten into UVA. Pulled his app when he got in the SLAC ED.

"language game" - aka it was never the right fit and that's fine!

DP.
Disagree that a state flagship should have such an arbitrary standard on world languages if they are trying to attract top students, particularly top STEM students.

Language game poster here and I agree. While my kid is happy with his chosen college and I think it's a better fit than UVA, I am still a little disappointed he won't be taking advantage of instate tuition at my alma mater. I don't think the state flagship should have this weird standard. It definitely hurts STEM kids. He had to choose between a STEM AP double period class and a language. I think he picked correctly and I'm miffed that UVA penalizes kids for following their interests.

Did he include that explanation in the notes section?

Yes

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's your zip

This. From McLean and Langley, you need a 4.5 on top of that SAT score. Highest rigor, highest grades. No room for an emotional breakup, friend troubles, personal issues to work through, or family struggle. Be perfect since age 14 or no UVA for you.

Which means there are lots of parents helicoptering and snow plowing to make this happen and they have all the money they need to support that.

If you have more money you don’t obsess about your kids going to an in-state school like UVA. You let your kids enjoy life a bit more and go to another in-state school, a SLAC or an OOS flagship, comfortable that their basic smarts and social skills will serve them well later.

You must be posting from the south. That’s how southern wealthy parents act, not DC/Northern Virginia parents.

We are in NoVa and not rich, but we saw the writing on the wall. UVA wasn’t going to be for our DC, who had some transcript/GPA things that would have been issues at UVA. We went the SLAC route and with aid ended up being less than what we would have paid for UVA.

Similar story here, DC took a very rigorous STEM focused courseload but didn’t want to play UVA’s language game. Headed to a top SLAC instead. Who knows whether he would have gotten into UVA. Pulled his app when he got in the SLAC ED.

"language game" - aka it was never the right fit and that's fine!

DP.
Disagree that a state flagship should have such an arbitrary standard on world languages if they are trying to attract top students, particularly top STEM students.

It’s not arbitrary.

It does narrow the field to top students.

The top STEM public university in VA is VT.

Well it excludes top STEM students. They didn't get my NMSF with a perfect SAT score. Their loss!

You said he didn’t play/apply. How can you say they exclude him? He probably knew it’s not a good fit.

No, I did not say he did not apply. He did apply. I did say he did not play the language game, by that meaning he stopped a lang after soph yr even knowing UVA - then his top choice school - would look down on it. Over time, UVA went down in his list. He didn't apply there ED. He did still apply EA in the end.

But didn’t get in.

You made that last part up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's your zip code.

This. From McLean and Langley, you need a 4.5 on top of that SAT score. Highest rigor, highest grades. No room for an emotional breakup, friend troubles, personal issues to work through, or family struggle. Be perfect since age 14 or no UVA for you.

Which means there are lots of parents helicoptering and snow plowing to make this happen and they have all the money they need to support that.

If you have more money you don’t obsess about your kids going to an in-state school like UVA. You let your kids enjoy life a bit more and go to another in-state school, a SLAC or an OOS flagship, comfortable that their basic smarts and social skills will serve them well later.

You must be posting from the south. That’s how southern wealthy parents act, not DC/Northern Virginia parents.

We are in NoVa and not rich, but we saw the writing on the wall. UVA wasn’t going to be for our DC, who had some transcript/GPA things that would have been issues at UVA. We went the SLAC route and with aid ended up being less than what we would have paid for UVA.

Similar story here, DC took a very rigorous STEM focused courseload but didn’t want to play UVA’s language game. Headed to a top SLAC instead. Who knows whether he would have gotten into UVA. Pulled his app when he got in the SLAC ED.

"language game" - aka it was never the right fit and that's fine!

DP.
Disagree that a state flagship should have such an arbitrary standard on world languages if they are trying to attract top students, particularly top STEM students.

It’s not arbitrary.

It does narrow the field to top students.

The top STEM public university in VA is VT.

Well it excludes top STEM students. They didn't get my NMSF with a perfect SAT score. Their loss!

You said he didn’t play/apply. How can you say they exclude him? He probably knew it’s not a good fit.

No, I did not say he did not apply. He did apply. I did say he did not play the language game, by that meaning he stopped a lang after soph yr even knowing UVA - then his top choice school - would look down on it. Over time, UVA went down in his list. He didn't apply there ED. He did still apply EA in the end.

But didn’t get in.

Well congratulations on knowing more about his app then we ever will. He pulled EA app when hit in ED as I already said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think it's ridiculous that a child who get B's in DE and AP classes and is taking advanced math that is second and third year mathematics college major is going to end up in jmu , odu or Mary Washington. Maybe uva isnt the right fit but where does a b ap/de student who has taken all second and third math college level courses go? Maybe that is the real question.

3.98/4.5, 1560 9 APs and HS math through Multi/Linear was waitlisted at UVA in 2023. Accepted at WM, UMD (merit), Pitt, Lehigh (merit), BU (merit), Ohio St.(merit) CWRU (merit) and UMN (merit). Plenty of state flagships will offer merit to bring COA near or better than UVA in-state.

ok very interesting, where did they end up? WM looks interesting but I am not sure if my kid would like being at a liberal arts school to double major in math and cs.

I dont think you understand what a liberal arts school is. It isnt just for humanities.

Yeah they need to stop wasting money on the liberal arts program , at a minimum it should include technical classes like barista and French fry handling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really think it's ridiculous that a child who get B's in DE and AP classes and is taking advanced math that is second and third year mathematics college major is going to end up in jmu , odu or Mary Washington. Maybe uva isnt the right fit but where does a b ap/de student who has taken all second and third math college level courses go? Maybe that is the real question.

This type of DC, if in-state is necessary, would end up at VT, WM or GMU, particularly if the DC is getting As in the STEM subjects but has B's in the other core areas, and doesn't have the foreign language.

Otherwise, as others have posted, the DC should look at OOS privates and public flagships where merit can help lower the cost to instate levels.

This is the flip side of having UVA, VT and W&M collectively serve as the equivalent of a single flagship elsewhere (e.g., a Michigan or UMCP). Virginians get choices, but do not necessarily get their preferred choice of the three. If they don't like it, they have to settle for a second tier public (JMU/VCU/GMU) or go out of state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really think it's ridiculous that a child who get B's in DE and AP classes and is taking advanced math that is second and third year mathematics college major is going to end up in jmu , odu or Mary Washington. Maybe uva isnt the right fit but where does a b ap/de student who has taken all second and third math college level courses go? Maybe that is the real question.

UVA always has many applicants from FCPS who are very strong in STEM and also took 4 yrs of foreign language and are max rigor in all subjects in HS.

When I was at UVA SEAS, every other SEAS student I happened to know has 4 yrs FL (even though SEAS does not have FL as a degree requirement). Even the one student who was from a former coal county in SW VA had taken 4yrs of French.

If one believes in USNWR ratings (I am skeptical those ratings mean much) then VT is the highest rated VA public university in STEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the flip side of having UVA, VT and W&M collectively serve as the equivalent of a single flagship elsewhere (e.g., a Michigan or UMCP). Virginians get choices, but do not necessarily get their preferred choice of the three. If they don't like it, they have to settle for a second tier public (JMU/VCU/GMU) or go out of state.

The quoted text above is a good insight.