If you are MAGA, do you have contempt for empathy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MAGA are selfish people. They just think about themselves.

I agree this is true of nearly all MAGA, but it’s also true of nearly all Democrats.

The self-importance and self-blindness of the Democrats on this thread has been truly amazing to watch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s contempt as much as it is people think that your idea of empathy is overrated.

Some people prioritize sane and logical decision making to empathy.

This. Liberals use “empathy” as a cudgel to manipulate people and get their way.

Examples are like not wanting to use pronouns- “Why are you so transphobic? You know you could be more emphatic and just do it!!!”

Taking note of the MILLIONS of illegal immigrants that are putting a huge strain on housing, hospitals and schools “If only you could walk in their shoes and acted like a Christian”

ok this is super interesting.
as a liberal it feels like it just isn't really an inconvenience to use someone's pronouns BUT i do agree it kind of went to like a weird place. but i think the tension is that the need to do it felt like - quite small, vs the performance of doing it.
but i do think if someone wants you to use whatever pronoun you should just suck it up and do it no? just dont make it into a whole song and dance.

Why do you believe compelled speech is empathetic? I am genuinely asking; I honestly do not understand why liberals believe forcing speech of others is empathetic.

I do think it is.
We are forced to be polite all the time so as not to hurt people or to be respectful. My kids school they call teachers by their first name but for a while they went to school in Fla and were asked to call them ‘miss x’. That was forced speech. But whatev. That was important to those teachers

Forcing me to announce my pronouns when I don't want to is not empathetic. It is bullying and demands that I conform to your wishes.

Please cite any government law or policy forcing you to do so?

I’m a dem. I don’t want to list my pronouns either and never have. No one has ever made me or even asked me to.

I know some companies have asked employees to or offered online bio space to, but that is at private companies. As a fed, I’ve never been required to list my pronouns. I don’t think the government is requiring this of anyone and because we have civil rights laws protecting gender discrimination, I think it would be unlawful for even a private company to force you to identify your gender against your will.

It’s simply not honest to refuse to recognize that use of preferred pronouns is compelled in many circumstances now, with often horrifying consequences. Here is one:

Victim forced by court to refer to her rapist as she:

https://abc7chicago.com/post/pronoun-use-center-rape-case-involving-former-chowchilla-central-california-womens-facility-prisoner-tremaine-carroll/15696730/

Do you believe this is empathetic, PP? This is zero sum: either the rape victim and prosecutors are compelled by the court to use female pronouns or they are not compelled. Do you believe the judge ruled correctly here, and if so, why do you believe that is the most empathetic outcome?

This is the same logical fallacy that epitomizes so many MAGA talking points. It is the fallacy of composition on steroids.

One woman was unfairly made to refer to her rapist as "she", so the entire US populace is being compelled to use pronouns
Laken Riley was brutally murdered, so none of the people being removed from the US deserve to be treated with dignity
Some wasteful spending has been identified in the federal budget, so the entire thing is nothing but liberals lining their pockets

These kinds of hysterics are being actively used to foment anger, which makes people lose not only their empathy but also their ability to appreciate nuance.

How many examples do you need before you consider someone needing empathy? What’s your empathy threshold, because you clearly have one?

The Tuskegee “experiment” — it should not be even credited with that word — harmed approximately 400 men, of which approximately 100 died. Do you agree their suffering was morally and ethically abhorrent? What if it had only been one man? Would you be fine with his treatment in that case, as you are okay with thresholds? Laken Riley was murdered: if there had been 100 murders like hers, would you then start to care?

So, what is your number for when you believe empathy is warranted, because you clearly have one. Please explain.

Whoosh!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s contempt as much as it is people think that your idea of empathy is overrated.

Some people prioritize sane and logical decision making to empathy.

This. Liberals use “empathy” as a cudgel to manipulate people and get their way.

Examples are like not wanting to use pronouns- “Why are you so transphobic? You know you could be more emphatic and just do it!!!”

Taking note of the MILLIONS of illegal immigrants that are putting a huge strain on housing, hospitals and schools “If only you could walk in their shoes and acted like a Christian”

ok this is super interesting.
as a liberal it feels like it just isn't really an inconvenience to use someone's pronouns BUT i do agree it kind of went to like a weird place. but i think the tension is that the need to do it felt like - quite small, vs the performance of doing it.
but i do think if someone wants you to use whatever pronoun you should just suck it up and do it no? just dont make it into a whole song and dance.

Why do you believe compelled speech is empathetic? I am genuinely asking; I honestly do not understand why liberals believe forcing speech of others is empathetic.

I do think it is.
We are forced to be polite all the time so as not to hurt people or to be respectful. My kids school they call teachers by their first name but for a while they went to school in Fla and were asked to call them ‘miss x’. That was forced speech. But whatev. That was important to those teachers

Forcing me to announce my pronouns when I don't want to is not empathetic. It is bullying and demands that I conform to your wishes.

Please cite any government law or policy forcing you to do so?

I’m a dem. I don’t want to list my pronouns either and never have. No one has ever made me or even asked me to.

I know some companies have asked employees to or offered online bio space to, but that is at private companies. As a fed, I’ve never been required to list my pronouns. I don’t think the government is requiring this of anyone and because we have civil rights laws protecting gender discrimination, I think it would be unlawful for even a private company to force you to identify your gender against your will.

It’s simply not honest to refuse to recognize that use of preferred pronouns is compelled in many circumstances now, with often horrifying consequences. Here is one:

Victim forced by court to refer to her rapist as she:

https://abc7chicago.com/post/pronoun-use-center-rape-case-involving-former-chowchilla-central-california-womens-facility-prisoner-tremaine-carroll/15696730/

Do you believe this is empathetic, PP? This is zero sum: either the rape victim and prosecutors are compelled by the court to use female pronouns or they are not compelled. Do you believe the judge ruled correctly here, and if so, why do you believe that is the most empathetic outcome?

This is the same logical fallacy that epitomizes so many MAGA talking points. It is the fallacy of composition on steroids.

One woman was unfairly made to refer to her rapist as "she", so the entire US populace is being compelled to use pronouns
Laken Riley was brutally murdered, so none of the people being removed from the US deserve to be treated with dignity
Some wasteful spending has been identified in the federal budget, so the entire thing is nothing but liberals lining their pockets

These kinds of hysterics are being actively used to foment anger, which makes people lose not only their empathy but also their ability to appreciate nuance.

How many examples do you need before you consider someone needing empathy? What’s your empathy threshold, because you clearly have one?

The Tuskegee “experiment” — it should not be even credited with that word — harmed approximately 400 men, of which approximately 100 died. Do you agree their suffering was morally and ethically abhorrent? What if it had only been one man? Would you be fine with his treatment in that case, as you are okay with thresholds? Laken Riley was murdered: if there had been 100 murders like hers, would you then start to care?

So, what is your number for when you believe empathy is warranted, because you clearly have one. Please explain.

Whoosh!

It’s true that is about the state of OPs head here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To us liberals, this is optically very much the vibe. Is this the case IRL? Would love to understand the thinking.

NP. I’m a Democrat and it feels to me that the Democrats have a lot invested in appearing to have empathy, but not actually having any empathy.

The Republican lack of empathy feels more honest in many respects.

VS?

Versus actually having empathy. I simply do not believe Democrats as a group have empathy and compassion. I used to believe that, but no longer.

I find the Republicans somewhat refreshing in that respect. They don’t pretend they have empathy and compassion.

So your world view is that no one has empathy?

[Anonymous]

Cruelty is the point. They want people punished for not agreeing with them, whether it be a sky daddy or a White House daddy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To us liberals, this is optically very much the vibe. Is this the case IRL? Would love to understand the thinking.

NP. I’m a Democrat and it feels to me that the Democrats have a lot invested in appearing to have empathy, but not actually having any empathy.

The Republican lack of empathy feels more honest in many respects.

VS?

Versus actually having empathy. I simply do not believe Democrats as a group have empathy and compassion. I used to believe that, but no longer.

I find the Republicans somewhat refreshing in that respect. They don’t pretend they have empathy and compassion.

So your world view is that no one has empathy?

I believe people have empathy, but I do not think people grouped by political affiliation have empathy based on that affiliation.

In other words, I believe the average Republican is as likely to have empathy as the average Democrat. As political groups, I believe neither have empathy. And I certainly do not believe whatsoever that Democrats are more empathetic than Republicans.

[Anonymous]

I like the in group/out group and the five/six moral foundations theory. Basic gist is that liberals care more for out groups while conservatives care more for in groups. Liberals prioritize empathy over all else while conservatives balance the moral foundations. I also think this explains why studies show liberals are very poor at understanding conservative positions. Finally, I think the emphasis on empathy is precisely what Carville’s preachy females comment was getting at.

Five/six moral foundations wiki summary (key highlight to me):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_foundations_theory

Researchers have found that people's sensitivities to the five/six moral foundations correlate with their political ideologies. Using the Moral Foundations Questionnaire, Haidt and Graham found that libertarians are most sensitive to the proposed Liberty foundation, liberals are most sensitive to the Care and Fairness foundations, while conservatives are equally sensitive to all five/six foundations.

According to Haidt, the differences have significant implications for political discourse and relations. Because members of two political camps are to a degree blind to one or more of the moral foundations of the others, they may perceive morally driven words or behavior as having another basis – at best self-interested, at worst evil, and thus demonize one another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I like the in group/out group and the five/six moral foundations theory. Basic gist is that liberals care more for out groups while conservatives care more for in groups. Liberals prioritize empathy over all else while conservatives balance the moral foundations. I also think this explains why studies show liberals are very poor at understanding conservative positions. Finally, I think the emphasis on empathy is precisely what Carville’s preachy females comment was getting at.

Five/six moral foundations wiki summary (key highlight to me):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_foundations_theory

Researchers have found that people's sensitivities to the five/six moral foundations correlate with their political ideologies. Using the Moral Foundations Questionnaire, Haidt and Graham found that libertarians are most sensitive to the proposed Liberty foundation, liberals are most sensitive to the Care and Fairness foundations, while conservatives are equally sensitive to all five/six foundations.

According to Haidt, the differences have significant implications for political discourse and relations. Because members of two political camps are to a degree blind to one or more of the moral foundations of the others, they may perceive morally driven words or behavior as having another basis – at best self-interested, at worst evil, and thus demonize one another.

This is really interesting. Thank you for sharing it. It does ring true to me to a degree. I know that it would be better for me financially to get Trump’s tax cuts, but I can’t imagine letting that fact sway me because I think I have a moral and ethical duty to help those with fewer resources. That determines how I vote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To us liberals, this is optically very much the vibe. Is this the case IRL? Would love to understand the thinking.

Contempt

One of the main things that I hear from my fellow tradesmen is how the elite and white-collar professional class don't care about or respect the blue collar working class. This disrespect comes out in many ways, big and small. But you can hear it a lot in the political rhetoric coming out of the progressive side these days. It was there in the COVID conversation, how work-from-home white collar folks pushed for endless lockdowns and vaccine mandates, to be imposed on the working class whose labor they relied on to stay home. It's there in the way they talk about a universal basic income instead of high-paying trade jobs, and in the way they push for low-wage green jobs instead of union energy jobs.

But you can really see it in how they talk about college. Take the latest issue that progressives are pushing the Biden administration on—student loan cancelation. They want us taxpayers to pay off the student loans of the college educated, who on average make more money than those without a degree, and for whom the economy recovered almost immediately post-COVID. Then they have the audacity to tell us that it will help blue collar workers. They want us to enthusiastically agree to pay off their student loan debt, and then have the nerve to tell us it's in our interest as Americans.

That's what I mean about disrespect. And it pervades the entire conversation about college in America today.

https://www.newsweek.com/divide-isnt-right-v-left-its-us-blue-collar-workers-fighting-elite-contempt-opinion-1706053

[Anonymous]

I don’t think empathy or sympathy exist in the conservative mind. It’s all about the self; my rights, why should I care about others, why should I help others, why can’t I do whatever I want wherever I want, I want everything. I think you’d find republicans are far likelier to push their airplane seat back than democrats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Empathy at this point is stupidity. It encourages people creating situations and taking advantage of them for monetary gain.

I'm a libertarian, and with good reason.

And that is exactly why I am NOT a libertarian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To us liberals, this is optically very much the vibe. Is this the case IRL? Would love to understand the thinking.

Contempt

One of the main things that I hear from my fellow tradesmen is how the elite and white-collar professional class don't care about or respect the blue collar working class. This disrespect comes out in many ways, big and small. But you can hear it a lot in the political rhetoric coming out of the progressive side these days. It was there in the COVID conversation, how work-from-home white collar folks pushed for endless lockdowns and vaccine mandates, to be imposed on the working class whose labor they relied on to stay home. It's there in the way they talk about a universal basic income instead of high-paying trade jobs, and in the way they push for low-wage green jobs instead of union energy jobs.

But you can really see it in how they talk about college. Take the latest issue that progressives are pushing the Biden administration on—student loan cancelation. They want us taxpayers to pay off the student loans of the college educated, who on average make more money than those without a degree, and for whom the economy recovered almost immediately post-COVID. Then they have the audacity to tell us that it will help blue collar workers. They want us to enthusiastically agree to pay off their student loan debt, and then have the nerve to tell us it's in our interest as Americans.

That's what I mean about disrespect. And it pervades the entire conversation about college in America today.

https://www.newsweek.com/divide-isnt-right-v-left-its-us-blue-collar-workers-fighting-elite-contempt-opinion-1706053

That’s mostly reasonable. But why would Trump be any better? He has appointed a bunch of billionaires to lead our government. He is robbing our country blind. How could you vote for this?

[Anonymous]

New poster. I think there's definitely a segment of conservatives who are essentially sociopaths. They may look after their immediate circle but beyond that they don't care about anyone or what may befall them.

And, self-aware to their lack of empathy, they project it onto others, not believing that others are, in fact, capable of empathy. When they see someone else showing empathy, they think it's fake (since they themselves are incapable of it), and thus attach their own artificial labels like "virtue signalling" which projects their own lack of empathy onto others.

The other thing that goes far far beyond the "contempt" that's presumed to be shown by white collars toward blue collars (which I think is at least partly also chip-on-shoulder inferiority complex of the blue collar) is the level of gleeful malice that's out there - for example the complete demonization of federal employees right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To us liberals, this is optically very much the vibe. Is this the case IRL? Would love to understand the thinking.

Here. This should clear it up for you. Watch this video, and in particular from 3:30 forward. Note how Senator Blumenthal (D-CT) says let's forget about the past in regards to 340,000 children.

WOW. He really does just want to brush all the lost children under the rug - that is, the ones who were lost under the Biden administration. That was pretty incredible, and good for Noem for pointing out his utter hypocrisy.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this thread has done is shown that Democrats care only about appearing empathetic, not actual empathy, and that Republicans do not have empathy.

All that this thread has shown is that MAGA are full of crap ^^case in point^^

Conservatives, MAGA, Republicans have plenty of empathy, it is just not for groups or people that the left considers worthy of empathy. We have empathy for people who have been killed, raped, beaten up, robbed, etc. by illegals. We have empathy for the people whose businesses were looted and destroyed by the BLM rioters. We have empathy for the victims of Los Angeles wildfires. We have empathy for the family of the CEO who was shot in cold blood in NYC. Do you have empathy for those people?

Right. So concerned for those survivors. But you DGAF about all of the other survivors who don't fit into your boogeyman narrative.