to convert or not to convert to the Catholic church

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up Catholic but now I"m agnostic. My brother is still Catholic and raised his kids Catholic, so wound up teaching his gay son that being gay is a sin.

No thanks.

The assertion that “being gay is a sin” is not part of Catholic teaching. Orientation is morally neutral.

Well it’s taught widely in the church and I think you are being purposely obtuse. My kid’s CDC teacher gave her nightmares telling her gays are going to hell.

Just to be clear.

I agree CCD teachers often suck
I agree some say gays are going to hell
Being gay is not a sin.
Acts of sex outside of marriage is a sin.
Catholics won't let gay people marry so all their acts are a sin.
They say "being gay" is "intrinsically disordered" and that is in the catechism not the Bible so it's not divine word

I agree it is horrible but I just wanted to clarify the teaching.

the whole point of the Catholic Church is that there is religious authority you accept outside of the bible, and certainly not just “listening to the holy spirit.” If you want a religion guided by how you feel and your personal relationship to Jesus and the bible … look elsewhere!

Sure, every religion has it's issues.

Other Christian religions believe you only have to accept Jesus as your savior to be saved, you can be a SOB and sin all day long but as long as Jesus is your savior, have at it.

Catholics at least believe you have to live like Jesus to be saved.

This isn’t true. No good works get you to heaven, just accepting God.

Catholics have a whole list of sins they cannot get to heaven if they commit - missing mass, murder, theft, dishonesty, etc, etc. Of course if they go to confession and confess their sins to a priest, then their souls are washed clean and they can go to holy communion and receive the Sacrament. And go the heaven, if they die. But assuming they live and sin again, they must go to confession and communion again, or else they will go to hell, if they committed a mortal sin, like missing mass or murder.

Exactly. I really wonder who the people are who believe Catholicism is about reading your bible and “accepting Jesus Christ into your heart as your personal savior.” That literally describes evangelism, not Catholicism!

They are people who believe those things themselves and think all good Christians should believe them too.

ok well, that doesn’t change the fact that the Catholic Church has its own specific theology that is different from other Christian denominations.

+1. and man made theology. There are no "rules" like those that trips people in Catholicism in the bible. The nastiest people I've known ( rigid, judgmental, gossipy, self-oriented) are catholuc abd, in my mind, not Christian

well don’t get ahead of yourself … protestants don’t hesitate to pass judgment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up Catholic but now I"m agnostic. My brother is still Catholic and raised his kids Catholic, so wound up teaching his gay son that being gay is a sin.

No thanks.

The assertion that “being gay is a sin” is not part of Catholic teaching. Orientation is morally neutral.

Well it’s taught widely in the church and I think you are being purposely obtuse. My kid’s CDC teacher gave her nightmares telling her gays are going to hell.

Just to be clear.

I agree CCD teachers often suck
I agree some say gays are going to hell
Being gay is not a sin.
Acts of sex outside of marriage is a sin.
Catholics won't let gay people marry so all their acts are a sin.
They say "being gay" is "intrinsically disordered" and that is in the catechism not the Bible so it's not divine word

I agree it is horrible but I just wanted to clarify the teaching.

the whole point of the Catholic Church is that there is religious authority you accept outside of the bible, and certainly not just “listening to the holy spirit.” If you want a religion guided by how you feel and your personal relationship to Jesus and the bible … look elsewhere!

Sure, every religion has it's issues.

Other Christian religions believe you only have to accept Jesus as your savior to be saved, you can be a SOB and sin all day long but as long as Jesus is your savior, have at it.

Catholics at least believe you have to live like Jesus to be saved.

This isn’t true. No good works get you to heaven, just accepting God.

Catholics have a whole list of sins they cannot get to heaven if they commit - missing mass, murder, theft, dishonesty, etc, etc. Of course if they go to confession and confess their sins to a priest, then their souls are washed clean and they can go to holy communion and receive the Sacrament. And go the heaven, if they die. But assuming they live and sin again, they must go to confession and communion again, or else they will go to hell, if they committed a mortal sin, like missing mass or murder.

Exactly. I really wonder who the people are who believe Catholicism is about reading your bible and “accepting Jesus Christ into your heart as your personal savior.” That literally describes evangelism, not Catholicism!

They are people who believe those things themselves and think all good Christians should believe them too.

ok well, that doesn’t change the fact that the Catholic Church has its own specific theology that is different from other Christian denominations.

+1. and man made theology. There are no "rules" like those that trips people in Catholicism in the bible. The nastiest people I've known ( rigid, judgmental, gossipy, self-oriented) are catholuc abd, in my mind, not Christian

I was going to say something snarky like “Catholics are the original Christians”. But your comment actually neatly illustrates the difference between Catholics and Protestants. Unless a Catholic is excommunicated (a really rare thing that only the Church hierarchy can do through a canon law process) you’s never say a baptised Catholic “isn’t Catholic.” Because it is something you are (via sacraments) not something you do. Heck, I was baptized and haven’t been to church for 20 years and I am still 100% Catholic per the Church. Badly sinning but still Catholic! Protestants on the other hand may say things like “She’s not a Christian” because they believe she’s not *performing* Christianity correctly. Faith v works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up Catholic but now I"m agnostic. My brother is still Catholic and raised his kids Catholic, so wound up teaching his gay son that being gay is a sin.

No thanks.

The assertion that “being gay is a sin” is not part of Catholic teaching. Orientation is morally neutral.

Well it’s taught widely in the church and I think you are being purposely obtuse. My kid’s CDC teacher gave her nightmares telling her gays are going to hell.

Just to be clear.

I agree CCD teachers often suck
I agree some say gays are going to hell
Being gay is not a sin.
Acts of sex outside of marriage is a sin.
Catholics won't let gay people marry so all their acts are a sin.
They say "being gay" is "intrinsically disordered" and that is in the catechism not the Bible so it's not divine word

I agree it is horrible but I just wanted to clarify the teaching.

the whole point of the Catholic Church is that there is religious authority you accept outside of the bible, and certainly not just “listening to the holy spirit.” If you want a religion guided by how you feel and your personal relationship to Jesus and the bible … look elsewhere!

Sure, every religion has it's issues.

Other Christian religions believe you only have to accept Jesus as your savior to be saved, you can be a SOB and sin all day long but as long as Jesus is your savior, have at it.

Catholics at least believe you have to live like Jesus to be saved.

This isn’t true. No good works get you to heaven, just accepting God.

Catholics have a whole list of sins they cannot get to heaven if they commit - missing mass, murder, theft, dishonesty, etc, etc. Of course if they go to confession and confess their sins to a priest, then their souls are washed clean and they can go to holy communion and receive the Sacrament. And go the heaven, if they die. But assuming they live and sin again, they must go to confession and communion again, or else they will go to hell, if they committed a mortal sin, like missing mass or murder.

Exactly. I really wonder who the people are who believe Catholicism is about reading your bible and “accepting Jesus Christ into your heart as your personal savior.” That literally describes evangelism, not Catholicism!

They are people who believe those things themselves and think all good Christians should believe them too.

ok well, that doesn’t change the fact that the Catholic Church has its own specific theology that is different from other Christian denominations.

+1. and man made theology. There are no "rules" like those that trips people in Catholicism in the bible. The nastiest people I've known ( rigid, judgmental, gossipy, self-oriented) are catholuc abd, in my mind, not Christian

I was going to say something snarky like “Catholics are the original Christians”. But your comment actually neatly illustrates the difference between Catholics and Protestants. Unless a Catholic is excommunicated (a really rare thing that only the Church hierarchy can do through a canon law process) you’s never say a baptised Catholic “isn’t Catholic.” Because it is something you are (via sacraments) not something you do. Heck, I was baptized and haven’t been to church for 20 years and I am still 100% Catholic per the Church. Badly sinning but still Catholic! Protestants on the other hand may say things like “She’s not a Christian” because they believe she’s not *performing* Christianity correctly. Faith v works.

Even excommunication does not render a person non-Catholic.

[Anonymous]

Organized religion has been the root of so much evil. All of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up Catholic but now I"m agnostic. My brother is still Catholic and raised his kids Catholic, so wound up teaching his gay son that being gay is a sin.

No thanks.

The assertion that “being gay is a sin” is not part of Catholic teaching. Orientation is morally neutral.

Well it’s taught widely in the church and I think you are being purposely obtuse. My kid’s CDC teacher gave her nightmares telling her gays are going to hell.

Just to be clear.

I agree CCD teachers often suck
I agree some say gays are going to hell
Being gay is not a sin.
Acts of sex outside of marriage is a sin.
Catholics won't let gay people marry so all their acts are a sin.
They say "being gay" is "intrinsically disordered" and that is in the catechism not the Bible so it's not divine word

I agree it is horrible but I just wanted to clarify the teaching.

the whole point of the Catholic Church is that there is religious authority you accept outside of the bible, and certainly not just “listening to the holy spirit.” If you want a religion guided by how you feel and your personal relationship to Jesus and the bible … look elsewhere!

Sure, every religion has it's issues.

Other Christian religions believe you only have to accept Jesus as your savior to be saved, you can be a SOB and sin all day long but as long as Jesus is your savior, have at it.

Catholics at least believe you have to live like Jesus to be saved.

This isn’t true. No good works get you to heaven, just accepting God.

Catholics have a whole list of sins they cannot get to heaven if they commit - missing mass, murder, theft, dishonesty, etc, etc. Of course if they go to confession and confess their sins to a priest, then their souls are washed clean and they can go to holy communion and receive the Sacrament. And go the heaven, if they die. But assuming they live and sin again, they must go to confession and communion again, or else they will go to hell, if they committed a mortal sin, like missing mass or murder.

Exactly. I really wonder who the people are who believe Catholicism is about reading your bible and “accepting Jesus Christ into your heart as your personal savior.” That literally describes evangelism, not Catholicism!

They are people who believe those things themselves and think all good Christians should believe them too.

ok well, that doesn’t change the fact that the Catholic Church has its own specific theology that is different from other Christian denominations.

+1. and man made theology. There are no "rules" like those that trips people in Catholicism in the bible. The nastiest people I've known ( rigid, judgmental, gossipy, self-oriented) are catholuc abd, in my mind, not Christian

I was going to say something snarky like “Catholics are the original Christians”. But your comment actually neatly illustrates the difference between Catholics and Protestants. Unless a Catholic is excommunicated (a really rare thing that only the Church hierarchy can do through a canon law process) you’s never say a baptised Catholic “isn’t Catholic.” Because it is something you are (via sacraments) not something you do. Heck, I was baptized and haven’t been to church for 20 years and I am still 100% Catholic per the Church. Badly sinning but still Catholic! Protestants on the other hand may say things like “She’s not a Christian” because they believe she’s not *performing* Christianity correctly. Faith v works.

Even excommunication does not render a person non-Catholic.

I heard years ago, from someone thinking of undergoing the process, that you could make yourself un-catholic, via the church you were christened in and formally applying to Rome. To me, it sounded complicated and unnecessary. So what if Rome counts me as Catholic? I know I'm not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one who struggles with the pull to the Roman Catholic church, but then recoils in horror at something and says no way ever? (It's not just the abuse crisis and the birth control stuff--although those are pretty much deal-breakers on their own) Intellectually, I love RC books etc.--such a great intellectual tradition and I love the quality control where books get an imprimatur etc.--but then I go to a parish and people (nice people, more virtuous than I am)--they won't engage that tradition...like I'll bring up books by their greatest theologians like Karl Rahner or books by leading Catholic academics--and it's like I'm quoting some forbidden banned book or something. I've heard that the Arlington diocese is the most conservative in the country...but this is where I live. Is being a liberal Catholic even possible today--especially in northern Virginia? I don't even like that word liberal applied to faith--but everything just feels so rigid on the ground.

If you aren't willing to follow Catholic teaching, don't become Catholic. It would be like converting to Orthodox Judaism while refusing to keep kosher. Using birth control would be a mortal sin and you would be required to confess it every time if you wanted to receive communion. Receiving communion when in a state of mortal sin because you refuse to confess the sin would be even worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one who struggles with the pull to the Roman Catholic church, but then recoils in horror at something and says no way ever? (It's not just the abuse crisis and the birth control stuff--although those are pretty much deal-breakers on their own) Intellectually, I love RC books etc.--such a great intellectual tradition and I love the quality control where books get an imprimatur etc.--but then I go to a parish and people (nice people, more virtuous than I am)--they won't engage that tradition...like I'll bring up books by their greatest theologians like Karl Rahner or books by leading Catholic academics--and it's like I'm quoting some forbidden banned book or something. I've heard that the Arlington diocese is the most conservative in the country...but this is where I live. Is being a liberal Catholic even possible today--especially in northern Virginia? I don't even like that word liberal applied to faith--but everything just feels so rigid on the ground.

If you aren't willing to follow Catholic teaching, don't become Catholic. It would be like converting to Orthodox Judaism while refusing to keep kosher. Using birth control would be a mortal sin and you would be required to confess it every time if you wanted to receive communion. Receiving communion when in a state of mortal sin because you refuse to confess the sin would be even worse.

It would be straight to hell with you -- if you believe in hell, of course. If you don't, you're really not Catholic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one who struggles with the pull to the Roman Catholic church, but then recoils in horror at something and says no way ever? (It's not just the abuse crisis and the birth control stuff--although those are pretty much deal-breakers on their own) Intellectually, I love RC books etc.--such a great intellectual tradition and I love the quality control where books get an imprimatur etc.--but then I go to a parish and people (nice people, more virtuous than I am)--they won't engage that tradition...like I'll bring up books by their greatest theologians like Karl Rahner or books by leading Catholic academics--and it's like I'm quoting some forbidden banned book or something. I've heard that the Arlington diocese is the most conservative in the country...but this is where I live. Is being a liberal Catholic even possible today--especially in northern Virginia? I don't even like that word liberal applied to faith--but everything just feels so rigid on the ground.

If you aren't willing to follow Catholic teaching, don't become Catholic. It would be like converting to Orthodox Judaism while refusing to keep kosher. Using birth control would be a mortal sin and you would be required to confess it every time if you wanted to receive communion. Receiving communion when in a state of mortal sin because you refuse to confess the sin would be even worse.

It would be straight to hell with you -- if you believe in hell, of course. If you don't, you're really not Catholic.

but only after you're dead, even for Catholics. Meanwhile, while you're alive, you can sin again and again. If you get caught, you could go to jail here on earth, before burning eternally in hell. Some people never get caught here on earth and eternal damnation is only a matter of religious belief. MDs, even religious ones, know that life ends when the heart stops beating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up Catholic but now I"m agnostic. My brother is still Catholic and raised his kids Catholic, so wound up teaching his gay son that being gay is a sin.

No thanks.

The assertion that “being gay is a sin” is not part of Catholic teaching. Orientation is morally neutral.

Well it’s taught widely in the church and I think you are being purposely obtuse. My kid’s CDC teacher gave her nightmares telling her gays are going to hell.

Just to be clear.

I agree CCD teachers often suck
I agree some say gays are going to hell
Being gay is not a sin.
Acts of sex outside of marriage is a sin.
Catholics won't let gay people marry so all their acts are a sin.
They say "being gay" is "intrinsically disordered" and that is in the catechism not the Bible so it's not divine word

I agree it is horrible but I just wanted to clarify the teaching.

the whole point of the Catholic Church is that there is religious authority you accept outside of the bible, and certainly not just “listening to the holy spirit.” If you want a religion guided by how you feel and your personal relationship to Jesus and the bible … look elsewhere!

Sure, every religion has it's issues.

Other Christian religions believe you only have to accept Jesus as your savior to be saved, you can be a SOB and sin all day long but as long as Jesus is your savior, have at it.

Catholics at least believe you have to live like Jesus to be saved.

This isn’t true. No good works get you to heaven, just accepting God.

Catholics have a whole list of sins they cannot get to heaven if they commit - missing mass, murder, theft, dishonesty, etc, etc. Of course if they go to confession and confess their sins to a priest, then their souls are washed clean and they can go to holy communion and receive the Sacrament. And go the heaven, if they die. But assuming they live and sin again, they must go to confession and communion again, or else they will go to hell, if they committed a mortal sin, like missing mass or murder.

Exactly. I really wonder who the people are who believe Catholicism is about reading your bible and “accepting Jesus Christ into your heart as your personal savior.” That literally describes evangelism, not Catholicism!

They are people who believe those things themselves and think all good Christians should believe them too.

ok well, that doesn’t change the fact that the Catholic Church has its own specific theology that is different from other Christian denominations.

+1. and man made theology. There are no "rules" like those that trips people in Catholicism in the bible. The nastiest people I've known ( rigid, judgmental, gossipy, self-oriented) are catholuc abd, in my mind, not Christian

I was going to say something snarky like “Catholics are the original Christians”. But your comment actually neatly illustrates the difference between Catholics and Protestants. Unless a Catholic is excommunicated (a really rare thing that only the Church hierarchy can do through a canon law process) you’s never say a baptised Catholic “isn’t Catholic.” Because it is something you are (via sacraments) not something you do. Heck, I was baptized and haven’t been to church for 20 years and I am still 100% Catholic per the Church. Badly sinning but still Catholic! Protestants on the other hand may say things like “She’s not a Christian” because they believe she’s not *performing* Christianity correctly. Faith v works.

My spouse is a confirmed Catholic, but hasn't gone to church in decades. My kids are Catholic by choice (they went to Catholic school), so I dutifully took them to Sunday Mass (not a big deal to me since I attended a Protestant church similar to a Catholic church). When I converted a few years later, I was still surprised by all the hoops I had to jump through. It's not easy going to RCIA every week, finding a sponsor and attending all the other extra things. Maybe that's just coming from a Protestant lens. The priest at the time may have been a bit stricter though. We even had to have our marriage blessed. I've been attending a church for decades (including Mass!) and DH was still totally Catholic despite never going to church. I always thought that was kind of funny. That's why I'd make sure my kids follow through with confirmation. Even if they decide to do something different in the future, they will always be Catholic and can come back if they wish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up Catholic but now I"m agnostic. My brother is still Catholic and raised his kids Catholic, so wound up teaching his gay son that being gay is a sin.

No thanks.

The assertion that “being gay is a sin” is not part of Catholic teaching. Orientation is morally neutral.

Well it’s taught widely in the church and I think you are being purposely obtuse. My kid’s CDC teacher gave her nightmares telling her gays are going to hell.

Just to be clear.

I agree CCD teachers often suck
I agree some say gays are going to hell
Being gay is not a sin.
Acts of sex outside of marriage is a sin.
Catholics won't let gay people marry so all their acts are a sin.
They say "being gay" is "intrinsically disordered" and that is in the catechism not the Bible so it's not divine word

I agree it is horrible but I just wanted to clarify the teaching.

the whole point of the Catholic Church is that there is religious authority you accept outside of the bible, and certainly not just “listening to the holy spirit.” If you want a religion guided by how you feel and your personal relationship to Jesus and the bible … look elsewhere!

Sure, every religion has it's issues.

Other Christian religions believe you only have to accept Jesus as your savior to be saved, you can be a SOB and sin all day long but as long as Jesus is your savior, have at it.

Catholics at least believe you have to live like Jesus to be saved.

This isn’t true. No good works get you to heaven, just accepting God.

Catholics have a whole list of sins they cannot get to heaven if they commit - missing mass, murder, theft, dishonesty, etc, etc. Of course if they go to confession and confess their sins to a priest, then their souls are washed clean and they can go to holy communion and receive the Sacrament. And go the heaven, if they die. But assuming they live and sin again, they must go to confession and communion again, or else they will go to hell, if they committed a mortal sin, like missing mass or murder.

Exactly. I really wonder who the people are who believe Catholicism is about reading your bible and “accepting Jesus Christ into your heart as your personal savior.” That literally describes evangelism, not Catholicism!

They are people who believe those things themselves and think all good Christians should believe them too.

ok well, that doesn’t change the fact that the Catholic Church has its own specific theology that is different from other Christian denominations.

+1. and man made theology. There are no "rules" like those that trips people in Catholicism in the bible. The nastiest people I've known ( rigid, judgmental, gossipy, self-oriented) are catholuc abd, in my mind, not Christian

I was going to say something snarky like “Catholics are the original Christians”. But your comment actually neatly illustrates the difference between Catholics and Protestants. Unless a Catholic is excommunicated (a really rare thing that only the Church hierarchy can do through a canon law process) you’s never say a baptised Catholic “isn’t Catholic.” Because it is something you are (via sacraments) not something you do. Heck, I was baptized and haven’t been to church for 20 years and I am still 100% Catholic per the Church. Badly sinning but still Catholic! Protestants on the other hand may say things like “She’s not a Christian” because they believe she’s not *performing* Christianity correctly. Faith v works.

My spouse is a confirmed Catholic, but hasn't gone to church in decades. My kids are Catholic by choice (they went to Catholic school), so I dutifully took them to Sunday Mass (not a big deal to me since I attended a Protestant church similar to a Catholic church). When I converted a few years later, I was still surprised by all the hoops I had to jump through. It's not easy going to RCIA every week, finding a sponsor and attending all the other extra things. Maybe that's just coming from a Protestant lens. The priest at the time may have been a bit stricter though. We even had to have our marriage blessed. I've been attending a church for decades (including Mass!) and DH was still totally Catholic despite never going to church. I always thought that was kind of funny. That's why I'd make sure my kids follow through with confirmation. Even if they decide to do something different in the future, they will always be Catholic and can come back if they wish.

Wow -- you are really a committed Catholic! Many converts are.

I wonder what your husband thinks of all this. It sounds like you know that he can come back whenever he wants, but clearly, he doesn't want to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being a part of the Roman Church is an affair of the heart, driven by Faith — a living turning over of self to God — and not a mere intellectual journey. There is no such thing as “liberal” or “conservative” Catholicism. There is only a greater or lesser surrender to love personified in the person of Christ.

You need to get your head out of the sand. Of course, there is a liberal and conservative Catholicism and the conservatives are killing the faith.

Very, very true. There is a big big difference between the Catholic Worker and Opus Dei. The church has moved towards the Opus Dei side for the last 30 years. If you don't know this, you should. If you don't know about the schism with people following Pope Benedict (Ratzinberger) you should.

Ratzingberger?

Ratzinger, obviously. I’m old and forget things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one who struggles with the pull to the Roman Catholic church, but then recoils in horror at something and says no way ever? (It's not just the abuse crisis and the birth control stuff--although those are pretty much deal-breakers on their own) Intellectually, I love RC books etc.--such a great intellectual tradition and I love the quality control where books get an imprimatur etc.--but then I go to a parish and people (nice people, more virtuous than I am)--they won't engage that tradition...like I'll bring up books by their greatest theologians like Karl Rahner or books by leading Catholic academics--and it's like I'm quoting some forbidden banned book or something. I've heard that the Arlington diocese is the most conservative in the country...but this is where I live. Is being a liberal Catholic even possible today--especially in northern Virginia? I don't even like that word liberal applied to faith--but everything just feels so rigid on the ground.

If you aren't willing to follow Catholic teaching, don't become Catholic. It would be like converting to Orthodox Judaism while refusing to keep kosher. Using birth control would be a mortal sin and you would be required to confess it every time if you wanted to receive communion. Receiving communion when in a state of mortal sin because you refuse to confess the sin would be even worse.

Catholicism is more like Reform Judaism than Orthodox Judaism, at least in day-to-day life. Most Catholics I know lean towards cultural Catholicism and don’t think about specific beliefs all that much. Converts and priests talk about theology but most people don’t and don’t follow the rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up Catholic but now I"m agnostic. My brother is still Catholic and raised his kids Catholic, so wound up teaching his gay son that being gay is a sin.

No thanks.

The assertion that “being gay is a sin” is not part of Catholic teaching. Orientation is morally neutral.

Well it’s taught widely in the church and I think you are being purposely obtuse. My kid’s CDC teacher gave her nightmares telling her gays are going to hell.

Just to be clear.

I agree CCD teachers often suck
I agree some say gays are going to hell
Being gay is not a sin.
Acts of sex outside of marriage is a sin.
Catholics won't let gay people marry so all their acts are a sin.
They say "being gay" is "intrinsically disordered" and that is in the catechism not the Bible so it's not divine word

I agree it is horrible but I just wanted to clarify the teaching.

the whole point of the Catholic Church is that there is religious authority you accept outside of the bible, and certainly not just “listening to the holy spirit.” If you want a religion guided by how you feel and your personal relationship to Jesus and the bible … look elsewhere!

Sure, every religion has it's issues.

Other Christian religions believe you only have to accept Jesus as your savior to be saved, you can be a SOB and sin all day long but as long as Jesus is your savior, have at it.

Catholics at least believe you have to live like Jesus to be saved.

This isn’t true. No good works get you to heaven, just accepting God.

Catholics have a whole list of sins they cannot get to heaven if they commit - missing mass, murder, theft, dishonesty, etc, etc. Of course if they go to confession and confess their sins to a priest, then their souls are washed clean and they can go to holy communion and receive the Sacrament. And go the heaven, if they die. But assuming they live and sin again, they must go to confession and communion again, or else they will go to hell, if they committed a mortal sin, like missing mass or murder.

Exactly. I really wonder who the people are who believe Catholicism is about reading your bible and “accepting Jesus Christ into your heart as your personal savior.” That literally describes evangelism, not Catholicism!

They are people who believe those things themselves and think all good Christians should believe them too.

ok well, that doesn’t change the fact that the Catholic Church has its own specific theology that is different from other Christian denominations.

+1. and man made theology. There are no "rules" like those that trips people in Catholicism in the bible. The nastiest people I've known ( rigid, judgmental, gossipy, self-oriented) are catholuc abd, in my mind, not Christian

I was going to say something snarky like “Catholics are the original Christians”. But your comment actually neatly illustrates the difference between Catholics and Protestants. Unless a Catholic is excommunicated (a really rare thing that only the Church hierarchy can do through a canon law process) you’s never say a baptised Catholic “isn’t Catholic.” Because it is something you are (via sacraments) not something you do. Heck, I was baptized and haven’t been to church for 20 years and I am still 100% Catholic per the Church. Badly sinning but still Catholic! Protestants on the other hand may say things like “She’s not a Christian” because they believe she’s not *performing* Christianity correctly. Faith v works.

My spouse is a confirmed Catholic, but hasn't gone to church in decades. My kids are Catholic by choice (they went to Catholic school), so I dutifully took them to Sunday Mass (not a big deal to me since I attended a Protestant church similar to a Catholic church). When I converted a few years later, I was still surprised by all the hoops I had to jump through. It's not easy going to RCIA every week, finding a sponsor and attending all the other extra things. Maybe that's just coming from a Protestant lens. The priest at the time may have been a bit stricter though. We even had to have our marriage blessed. I've been attending a church for decades (including Mass!) and DH was still totally Catholic despite never going to church. I always thought that was kind of funny. That's why I'd make sure my kids follow through with confirmation. Even if they decide to do something different in the future, they will always be Catholic and can come back if they wish.

Wow -- you are really a committed Catholic! Many converts are.

I wonder what your husband thinks of all this. It sounds like you know that he can come back whenever he wants, but clearly, he doesn't want to.

Not sure. He's never said anything negative and is OK with kids attending Catholic schools K-12, despite the expense. I can even get him to at least attend Christmas and Easter Masses and other special events. I think you are right about converts. Haha, it's like they really want to make sure you are serious before giving you a stamp of approval.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I grew up Catholic but now I"m agnostic. My brother is still Catholic and raised his kids Catholic, so wound up teaching his gay son that being gay is a sin.

No thanks.

The assertion that “being gay is a sin” is not part of Catholic teaching. Orientation is morally neutral.

Well it’s taught widely in the church and I think you are being purposely obtuse. My kid’s CDC teacher gave her nightmares telling her gays are going to hell.

Just to be clear.

I agree CCD teachers often suck
I agree some say gays are going to hell
Being gay is not a sin.
Acts of sex outside of marriage is a sin.
Catholics won't let gay people marry so all their acts are a sin.
They say "being gay" is "intrinsically disordered" and that is in the catechism not the Bible so it's not divine word

I agree it is horrible but I just wanted to clarify the teaching.

the whole point of the Catholic Church is that there is religious authority you accept outside of the bible, and certainly not just “listening to the holy spirit.” If you want a religion guided by how you feel and your personal relationship to Jesus and the bible … look elsewhere!

Sure, every religion has it's issues.

Other Christian religions believe you only have to accept Jesus as your savior to be saved, you can be a SOB and sin all day long but as long as Jesus is your savior, have at it.

Catholics at least believe you have to live like Jesus to be saved.

This isn’t true. No good works get you to heaven, just accepting God.

Catholics have a whole list of sins they cannot get to heaven if they commit - missing mass, murder, theft, dishonesty, etc, etc. Of course if they go to confession and confess their sins to a priest, then their souls are washed clean and they can go to holy communion and receive the Sacrament. And go the heaven, if they die. But assuming they live and sin again, they must go to confession and communion again, or else they will go to hell, if they committed a mortal sin, like missing mass or murder.

Exactly. I really wonder who the people are who believe Catholicism is about reading your bible and “accepting Jesus Christ into your heart as your personal savior.” That literally describes evangelism, not Catholicism!

They are people who believe those things themselves and think all good Christians should believe them too.

ok well, that doesn’t change the fact that the Catholic Church has its own specific theology that is different from other Christian denominations.

+1. and man made theology. There are no "rules" like those that trips people in Catholicism in the bible. The nastiest people I've known ( rigid, judgmental, gossipy, self-oriented) are catholuc abd, in my mind, not Christian

I was going to say something snarky like “Catholics are the original Christians”. But your comment actually neatly illustrates the difference between Catholics and Protestants. Unless a Catholic is excommunicated (a really rare thing that only the Church hierarchy can do through a canon law process) you’s never say a baptised Catholic “isn’t Catholic.” Because it is something you are (via sacraments) not something you do. Heck, I was baptized and haven’t been to church for 20 years and I am still 100% Catholic per the Church. Badly sinning but still Catholic! Protestants on the other hand may say things like “She’s not a Christian” because they believe she’s not *performing* Christianity correctly. Faith v works.

My spouse is a confirmed Catholic, but hasn't gone to church in decades. My kids are Catholic by choice (they went to Catholic school), so I dutifully took them to Sunday Mass (not a big deal to me since I attended a Protestant church similar to a Catholic church). When I converted a few years later, I was still surprised by all the hoops I had to jump through. It's not easy going to RCIA every week, finding a sponsor and attending all the other extra things. Maybe that's just coming from a Protestant lens. The priest at the time may have been a bit stricter though. We even had to have our marriage blessed. I've been attending a church for decades (including Mass!) and DH was still totally Catholic despite never going to church. I always thought that was kind of funny. That's why I'd make sure my kids follow through with confirmation. Even if they decide to do something different in the future, they will always be Catholic and can come back if they wish.

Wow -- you are really a committed Catholic! Many converts are.

I wonder what your husband thinks of all this. It sounds like you know that he can come back whenever he wants, but clearly, he doesn't want to.

Not sure. He's never said anything negative and is OK with kids attending Catholic schools K-12, despite the expense. I can even get him to at least attend Christmas and Easter Masses and other special events. I think you are right about converts. Haha, it's like they really want to make sure you are serious before giving you a stamp of approval.

Interesting that the church is so tough on converts and so lax about inactive born Catholics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up Catholic but now I"m agnostic. My brother is still Catholic and raised his kids Catholic, so wound up teaching his gay son that being gay is a sin.

No thanks.

The assertion that “being gay is a sin” is not part of Catholic teaching. Orientation is morally neutral.

Well it’s taught widely in the church and I think you are being purposely obtuse. My kid’s CDC teacher gave her nightmares telling her gays are going to hell.

Just to be clear.

I agree CCD teachers often suck
I agree some say gays are going to hell
Being gay is not a sin.
Acts of sex outside of marriage is a sin.
Catholics won't let gay people marry so all their acts are a sin.
They say "being gay" is "intrinsically disordered" and that is in the catechism not the Bible so it's not divine word

I agree it is horrible but I just wanted to clarify the teaching.

the whole point of the Catholic Church is that there is religious authority you accept outside of the bible, and certainly not just “listening to the holy spirit.” If you want a religion guided by how you feel and your personal relationship to Jesus and the bible … look elsewhere!

Sure, every religion has it's issues.

Other Christian religions believe you only have to accept Jesus as your savior to be saved, you can be a SOB and sin all day long but as long as Jesus is your savior, have at it.

Catholics at least believe you have to live like Jesus to be saved.

This isn’t true. No good works get you to heaven, just accepting God.

Catholics have a whole list of sins they cannot get to heaven if they commit - missing mass, murder, theft, dishonesty, etc, etc. Of course if they go to confession and confess their sins to a priest, then their souls are washed clean and they can go to holy communion and receive the Sacrament. And go the heaven, if they die. But assuming they live and sin again, they must go to confession and communion again, or else they will go to hell, if they committed a mortal sin, like missing mass or murder.

Exactly. I really wonder who the people are who believe Catholicism is about reading your bible and “accepting Jesus Christ into your heart as your personal savior.” That literally describes evangelism, not Catholicism!

They are people who believe those things themselves and think all good Christians should believe them too.

ok well, that doesn’t change the fact that the Catholic Church has its own specific theology that is different from other Christian denominations.

+1. and man made theology. There are no "rules" like those that trips people in Catholicism in the bible. The nastiest people I've known ( rigid, judgmental, gossipy, self-oriented) are catholuc abd, in my mind, not Christian

I was going to say something snarky like “Catholics are the original Christians”. But your comment actually neatly illustrates the difference between Catholics and Protestants. Unless a Catholic is excommunicated (a really rare thing that only the Church hierarchy can do through a canon law process) you’s never say a baptised Catholic “isn’t Catholic.” Because it is something you are (via sacraments) not something you do. Heck, I was baptized and haven’t been to church for 20 years and I am still 100% Catholic per the Church. Badly sinning but still Catholic! Protestants on the other hand may say things like “She’s not a Christian” because they believe she’s not *performing* Christianity correctly. Faith v works.

My spouse is a confirmed Catholic, but hasn't gone to church in decades. My kids are Catholic by choice (they went to Catholic school), so I dutifully took them to Sunday Mass (not a big deal to me since I attended a Protestant church similar to a Catholic church). When I converted a few years later, I was still surprised by all the hoops I had to jump through. It's not easy going to RCIA every week, finding a sponsor and attending all the other extra things. Maybe that's just coming from a Protestant lens. The priest at the time may have been a bit stricter though. We even had to have our marriage blessed. I've been attending a church for decades (including Mass!) and DH was still totally Catholic despite never going to church. I always thought that was kind of funny. That's why I'd make sure my kids follow through with confirmation. Even if they decide to do something different in the future, they will always be Catholic and can come back if they wish.

Wow -- you are really a committed Catholic! Many converts are.

I wonder what your husband thinks of all this. It sounds like you know that he can come back whenever he wants, but clearly, he doesn't want to.

Not sure. He's never said anything negative and is OK with kids attending Catholic schools K-12, despite the expense. I can even get him to at least attend Christmas and Easter Masses and other special events. I think you are right about converts. Haha, it's like they really want to make sure you are serious before giving you a stamp of approval.

Interesting that the church is so tough on converts and so lax about inactive born Catholics.

Yeah, that surprised me too. It was a running joke in our house. I never asked, but I always wondered why they made it so hard. Why would you turn away willing converts with all the steps? I liked the RCIA classes though. I was with a nice group of people.