to convert or not to convert to the Catholic church

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I think I would have been a great Catholic if I had been born into it. I am not Christian but I love the story of Christmas so much, and I can really relate to liberal Catholic politicians and people like Dorothy Day. I could see myself having joined a Catholic Worker house or even becoming a nun. But the idea of choosing a religion with the sex abuse coverups and anti abortion and gender inequity and anti LGBT stuff...no way. It's one thing to try and change the religion you were raised in and quite another to jump in to something with so many areas of disagreement.

+100. And no need to convert to appreciate the better points of Catholicism. You can go to mass, read theology, and maybe even find educated Catholics to discuss the theology with. You can volunteer with Catholic Charities and donate to whatever Catholic religious order you think reflects your values. The only reason to convert would be if you had a burning desire to take the sacraments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being a part of the Roman Church is an affair of the heart, driven by Faith — a living turning over of self to God — and not a mere intellectual journey. There is no such thing as “liberal” or “conservative” Catholicism. There is only a greater or lesser surrender to love personified in the person of Christ.

Keep in mind that you can "surrender to love personified in the person of Christ" or whomever you wish to surrender to (assuming you do) without joining the Catholic Church, or any church, for that matter.

And also keep in mind that pp is simply incorrect. What is said above can apply to the followers to any religion or cult, not just Catholicism. Catholics, in my experience, have always wanted to feel special, setting themselves apart from other forms of Christianity as the first or the best.

lol that’s a bit ahistorical 😂

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come hang with the Episcopalians and see if it's better fit.

Good idea -- the Episcopalians have all the ceremony -- and better music (these days especially) with none of the crazy rules.

As a Catholic myself, convert from a Protestant denomination, and a classical singer, this PP is on point about the music. The Catholic church has such a beautiful and timeless musical tradition, but most of what my parish does (and most parishes I have been to) is contemporary, because our music director is convinced that the congregation "doesn't like" or "can't handle" Latin. I much prefer chant, Latin, polyphony, motets... all the traditional trappings. Both for listening to, and for singing. If I never again hear the Toolan "Bread of Life," it'll be too soon...

That said there are Catholic parishes who employ a schola or invest time in training their cantors to do the above. You'd have to seek them out. But the Episcopal church by and large has the RCC beat hands down when it comes to music.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Being a part of the Roman Church is an affair of the heart, driven by Faith — a living turning over of self to God — and not a mere intellectual journey. There is no such thing as “liberal” or “conservative” Catholicism. There is only a greater or lesser surrender to love personified in the person of Christ.

This.

[Anonymous]

I grew up Catholic (different religion now) and will forever love some aspects of the church (I LOVE churches, religious art, lighting candles, all the saints...) but never liked the hierarchy or really much of the doctrine. Even as a kid, too much bothered me. I appreciate it all more now that I am not Catholic, just culturally and artistically.

[Anonymous]

I grew up Catholic in the tri-state area as did my husband. We stopped going to church here. It’s not the way I grew up. It’s conservative and Trumpy. And archaic. But as it relates to your intellectual fascination with Catholicism, that’s not really a mainstream Catholic ideal. Yes, we have great schools and maybe a parish attached to those schools would have a more intellectual population, but by and large Catholics were born Catholic and stay Catholic. They don’t read the literature and often can’t wait to leave service at the end. It very performative. Plus, it is a mix of working class and educated.

[Anonymous]

Try a Lutheran Church and leave the sex abuse behind. I can NOT believe anyone still identifies as Catholic. It's a corrupt institution and always has been.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Being a part of the Roman Church is an affair of the heart, driven by Faith — a living turning over of self to God — and not a mere intellectual journey. There is no such thing as “liberal” or “conservative” Catholicism. There is only a greater or lesser surrender to love personified in the person of Christ.

is that what the priests told their victims?

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I'm another "wish I'd been born Catholic but can't convert." I think the intellectual and social activism traditions are amazing. I'm still Protestant but can get inspiration from those things.

[Anonymous]

I consider myself a liberal Catholic.

I have drifted many times, but I keep coming back as it connects me to my parents (and grandparents, and great-grandparents, etc., etc.) It is the church where I feel most at home.

I struggle terribly with showing up despite the abuse scandal. I feel gratified by the real conversations I've had with priests who are trying to build a better institution. I don't fully know what to do, but I am willing to put in some time to figure it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one who struggles with the pull to the Roman Catholic church, but then recoils in horror at something and says no way ever? (It's not just the abuse crisis and the birth control stuff--although those are pretty much deal-breakers on their own) Intellectually, I love RC books etc.--such a great intellectual tradition and I love the quality control where books get an imprimatur etc.--but then I go to a parish and people (nice people, more virtuous than I am)--they won't engage that tradition...like I'll bring up books by their greatest theologians like Karl Rahner or books by leading Catholic academics--and it's like I'm quoting some forbidden banned book or something. I've heard that the Arlington diocese is the most conservative in the country...but this is where I live. Is being a liberal Catholic even possible today--especially in northern Virginia? I don't even like that word liberal applied to faith--but everything just feels so rigid on the ground.

I felt like this when I was younger, but ultimately I decided that I was chasing a bit of a mirage. Roman Catholicism has a great intellectual traditions, but so do the Protestant churches. Karl Rahner is a genius, but so is Karl Barth. I settled in Anglicanism for other reasons, but the more I explore its intellectual traditions, the more beauty and truth I find. What attracted me to Catholicism was the history, because a lot of Protestants don't engage with their history much, but neither do a lot of Catholics in the pews. The version of any Christian faith that is deeply grounded in theology and history is mostly a construct of the internet these days. That's not to say its bad, I get a lot of fulfillment out of that, but I also know that no church I attend will be a reading group for the luminaries of its intellectual tradition. That's fine.

If I were doing it again, I don't think the sex abuse scandals would move me much; every church has them. I would want to look at whether I thought what the Catholic Church teaches is true and consistent with Christ. I decided that I don't think it is, even though I find that there is a lot of truth there and I think there are things that Protestants can learn from Catholics. That's just what I decided though.

[Anonymous]

I grew up Catholic but now I"m agnostic. My brother is still Catholic and raised his kids Catholic, so wound up teaching his gay son that being gay is a sin.

No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up Catholic but now I"m agnostic. My brother is still Catholic and raised his kids Catholic, so wound up teaching his gay son that being gay is a sin.

No thanks.

The assertion that “being gay is a sin” is not part of Catholic teaching. Orientation is morally neutral.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being a part of the Roman Church is an affair of the heart, driven by Faith — a living turning over of self to God — and not a mere intellectual journey. There is no such thing as “liberal” or “conservative” Catholicism. There is only a greater or lesser surrender to love personified in the person of Christ.

This.

not this. like literally not - where do you even get that? that sounds more like some non-denominational or evangelical church than Catholicism, the heart of which is actually the sacraments (baptism, marriage, communion) and external obligations (mass, confession).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up Catholic but now I"m agnostic. My brother is still Catholic and raised his kids Catholic, so wound up teaching his gay son that being gay is a sin.

No thanks.

The assertion that “being gay is a sin” is not part of Catholic teaching. Orientation is morally neutral.

right you can be gay, but then you also have to be celibate and never get married.