Downtown DC is a storefront ghost

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just wanted to note that La Cosecha has a large parking garage underneath it where you can park for free for the first three hours. It is also used as overflow parking for Union Market.

Every large building being built in the Union Market area has a parking garage, there is zero reason to rely on street parking there. Eventually they'll get rid of the lot at UM to build another building there (with underground parking). Also eventually none of the parking in that neighborhood will be free unless you are shopping at Trader Joe's.

This is how urban development works.

Surface parking lots and then above ground garages are more highly preferred than underground garages from a consumer standpoint. All of the surface lots at Pike and Rose fill first before the garages. In downtown Bethesda, the above ground lots fill before the underground lots which never fill. People will circle the garage in Bethesda Row for 15 minutes and not even consider parking in the underground garage just around the corner that has 700 spaces.

It doesn't matter. Pike and Rose is in the suburbs. Surface lots are incredibly inefficient in the urban core and surface lots don't last. The surface lot at Union Market will be eliminated in the next few years. It's not even well maintained now -- it's nothing like the lots at Pike and Rose which were built to last a long time.

The developers who are building up Union Market are going to force all the parking underground because it allows them to put up buildings with street level retail and then high rise apartments, greatly increasing the value of the lot. Also, since the build up of the neighborhood involves so many apartments, the development is building in a customer base that does not even need a car, on top of the people who live nearby in NoMa. None of those people are going to drive to Union Market. These are people who bought there specifically so they could walk to all the amenities.

Development in the city and in the suburbs operates differently. Eventually it will be close to impossible to park in Union Market, and when you do, it will cost a lot of money, just like in Navy Yard or the Wharf. And suburbanites will complain. And no one will care because the neighborhood will have enough well off residents to sustain business there, and people from outside the city will just have to suck it up and pay a premium for underground parking, or use public transportation. And many of you will, because you actually like these destinations and they offer a lot more than anything you have in the burbs. Even at a place like Pike and Rose or the Mosaic District, which ultimately are just facsimiles of what the city offers. Sorry.

Hm. The ratio of 28 yr olds without kids or a mortgage relative to the rest of the adults in DC and the close suburbs is lopsided in favor of the latter. Spoiler alert - the group that doesn’t live in the micro apartments has more disposable income.

But, feel free to push the vision that the younger, carless renters alone can sustain the kind of CRE conversion needed in downtown DC

I don’t even understand what that word salad meant.

The rest of us get that driving to a city center and parking in a surface lot or street for cheap, right in front of the restaurant you want to go to, is not really a thing.

If you chose to live driving distance away from the city core and won’t take metro, it is what it is.

I don’t think turning downtown DC into a stripmall is anyone’s notion of an economic turnaround plan.

What is it with you "Urbanists"?! Talk like a real person, not some AI bot version. "Downtown" will do just fine.

We “urbanists” actually know DC well. The Wharf and Union Market are not “downtown.”.

Neither have significant levels of housing, so why are they doing so well and downtown not so much? Kind of kills that excuse.

Actually there is tons of housing in those neighborhoods. What are you talking about?

“Tons”. LOL.

There is a lot of new housing in Navy Yard. The Wharf has a few hundred multi-million dollar condos complimented by DCHA and Section 8 housing in the adjacent community. There is clearly not enough people that live there that could ever keep that boardwalk of mediocre restaurants viable.

Union Market area similarly just has a few apartment buildings and clearly not enough to make the vendors at La Cosecha viable because it’s at the ground floor of a large building.

Union Market itself has no housing above it (how awful!) and sits next to a good sized surface parking lot and it’s thriving.

Go figure.

Wtf are you talking about? NOMA is crammed with housing, then you have all of the rowhouses/small apartments south of Union Market. Granted SW doesn’t have as much new housing but still absurd. You really need to get out of Barnaby Woods more often.

The fact that you think NOMA is contiguous with Union Market says a lot about how well you know DC. Not much evidently. A lot of the so-called progressives trying to influence DC politics seem to live in Takoma Park and Hyattsville, which probably explains why you don’t know basic geography or neighborhoods.

wtf are you talking about? there is new housing ALL AROUND Union Market, which yes, includes the area known as NOMA. Literally, wtf are you talking about? and of course new buildings right in the Union Market area, and the existing dense residential south of it and Eckington to the North. Some of these areas could be better connected to market itself, but they are working on that with the new NOMA metro exit and Dave Thomas circle and improvements to the Met Branch trail.

Like I’m just scratching my head about this. Are you thinking that the fact that someone has to walk or bike down M St to get from NOMA to Union Markt means they are not contiguous? That’s just really odd. It sounds like you must drive everywhere and can’t fathom walking 10 minutes to get to dinner?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just wanted to note that La Cosecha has a large parking garage underneath it where you can park for free for the first three hours. It is also used as overflow parking for Union Market.

Every large building being built in the Union Market area has a parking garage, there is zero reason to rely on street parking there. Eventually they'll get rid of the lot at UM to build another building there (with underground parking). Also eventually none of the parking in that neighborhood will be free unless you are shopping at Trader Joe's.

This is how urban development works.

Surface parking lots and then above ground garages are more highly preferred than underground garages from a consumer standpoint. All of the surface lots at Pike and Rose fill first before the garages. In downtown Bethesda, the above ground lots fill before the underground lots which never fill. People will circle the garage in Bethesda Row for 15 minutes and not even consider parking in the underground garage just around the corner that has 700 spaces.

It doesn't matter. Pike and Rose is in the suburbs. Surface lots are incredibly inefficient in the urban core and surface lots don't last. The surface lot at Union Market will be eliminated in the next few years. It's not even well maintained now -- it's nothing like the lots at Pike and Rose which were built to last a long time.

The developers who are building up Union Market are going to force all the parking underground because it allows them to put up buildings with street level retail and then high rise apartments, greatly increasing the value of the lot. Also, since the build up of the neighborhood involves so many apartments, the development is building in a customer base that does not even need a car, on top of the people who live nearby in NoMa. None of those people are going to drive to Union Market. These are people who bought there specifically so they could walk to all the amenities.

Development in the city and in the suburbs operates differently. Eventually it will be close to impossible to park in Union Market, and when you do, it will cost a lot of money, just like in Navy Yard or the Wharf. And suburbanites will complain. And no one will care because the neighborhood will have enough well off residents to sustain business there, and people from outside the city will just have to suck it up and pay a premium for underground parking, or use public transportation. And many of you will, because you actually like these destinations and they offer a lot more than anything you have in the burbs. Even at a place like Pike and Rose or the Mosaic District, which ultimately are just facsimiles of what the city offers. Sorry.

Hm. The ratio of 28 yr olds without kids or a mortgage relative to the rest of the adults in DC and the close suburbs is lopsided in favor of the latter. Spoiler alert - the group that doesn’t live in the micro apartments has more disposable income.

But, feel free to push the vision that the younger, carless renters alone can sustain the kind of CRE conversion needed in downtown DC

I don’t even understand what that word salad meant.

The rest of us get that driving to a city center and parking in a surface lot or street for cheap, right in front of the restaurant you want to go to, is not really a thing.

If you chose to live driving distance away from the city core and won’t take metro, it is what it is.

I don’t think turning downtown DC into a stripmall is anyone’s notion of an economic turnaround plan.

What is it with you "Urbanists"?! Talk like a real person, not some AI bot version. "Downtown" will do just fine.

We “urbanists” actually know DC well. The Wharf and Union Market are not “downtown.”.

Neither have significant levels of housing, so why are they doing so well and downtown not so much? Kind of kills that excuse.

Actually there is tons of housing in those neighborhoods. What are you talking about?

“Tons”. LOL.

There is a lot of new housing in Navy Yard. The Wharf has a few hundred multi-million dollar condos complimented by DCHA and Section 8 housing in the adjacent community. There is clearly not enough people that live there that could ever keep that boardwalk of mediocre restaurants viable.

Union Market area similarly just has a few apartment buildings and clearly not enough to make the vendors at La Cosecha viable because it’s at the ground floor of a large building.

Union Market itself has no housing above it (how awful!) and sits next to a good sized surface parking lot and it’s thriving.

Go figure.

Wtf are you talking about? NOMA is crammed with housing, then you have all of the rowhouses/small apartments south of Union Market. Granted SW doesn’t have as much new housing but still absurd. You really need to get out of Barnaby Woods more often.

The fact that you think NOMA is contiguous with Union Market says a lot about how well you know DC. Not much evidently. A lot of the so-called progressives trying to influence DC politics seem to live in Takoma Park and Hyattsville, which probably explains why you don’t know basic geography or neighborhoods.

wtf are you talking about? there is new housing ALL AROUND Union Market, which yes, includes the area known as NOMA. Literally, wtf are you talking about? and of course new buildings right in the Union Market area, and the existing dense residential south of it and Eckington to the North. Some of these areas could be better connected to market itself, but they are working on that with the new NOMA metro exit and Dave Thomas circle and improvements to the Met Branch trail.

Like I’m just scratching my head about this. Are you thinking that the fact that someone has to walk or bike down M St to get from NOMA to Union Markt means they are not contiguous? That’s just really odd. It sounds like you must drive everywhere and can’t fathom walking 10 minutes to get to dinner?

It’s funny how angry you get when confronted with the fact that you don’t know DC neighborhoods. Now NOMA is a 10 minute walk to Union Market.

Guess what. NOMA is also a 10 minute walk to downtown. So why isn’t downtown thriving?

You’re a joke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just wanted to note that La Cosecha has a large parking garage underneath it where you can park for free for the first three hours. It is also used as overflow parking for Union Market.

Every large building being built in the Union Market area has a parking garage, there is zero reason to rely on street parking there. Eventually they'll get rid of the lot at UM to build another building there (with underground parking). Also eventually none of the parking in that neighborhood will be free unless you are shopping at Trader Joe's.

This is how urban development works.

Surface parking lots and then above ground garages are more highly preferred than underground garages from a consumer standpoint. All of the surface lots at Pike and Rose fill first before the garages. In downtown Bethesda, the above ground lots fill before the underground lots which never fill. People will circle the garage in Bethesda Row for 15 minutes and not even consider parking in the underground garage just around the corner that has 700 spaces.

It doesn't matter. Pike and Rose is in the suburbs. Surface lots are incredibly inefficient in the urban core and surface lots don't last. The surface lot at Union Market will be eliminated in the next few years. It's not even well maintained now -- it's nothing like the lots at Pike and Rose which were built to last a long time.

The developers who are building up Union Market are going to force all the parking underground because it allows them to put up buildings with street level retail and then high rise apartments, greatly increasing the value of the lot. Also, since the build up of the neighborhood involves so many apartments, the development is building in a customer base that does not even need a car, on top of the people who live nearby in NoMa. None of those people are going to drive to Union Market. These are people who bought there specifically so they could walk to all the amenities.

Development in the city and in the suburbs operates differently. Eventually it will be close to impossible to park in Union Market, and when you do, it will cost a lot of money, just like in Navy Yard or the Wharf. And suburbanites will complain. And no one will care because the neighborhood will have enough well off residents to sustain business there, and people from outside the city will just have to suck it up and pay a premium for underground parking, or use public transportation. And many of you will, because you actually like these destinations and they offer a lot more than anything you have in the burbs. Even at a place like Pike and Rose or the Mosaic District, which ultimately are just facsimiles of what the city offers. Sorry.

Hm. The ratio of 28 yr olds without kids or a mortgage relative to the rest of the adults in DC and the close suburbs is lopsided in favor of the latter. Spoiler alert - the group that doesn’t live in the micro apartments has more disposable income.

But, feel free to push the vision that the younger, carless renters alone can sustain the kind of CRE conversion needed in downtown DC

I don’t even understand what that word salad meant.

The rest of us get that driving to a city center and parking in a surface lot or street for cheap, right in front of the restaurant you want to go to, is not really a thing.

If you chose to live driving distance away from the city core and won’t take metro, it is what it is.

I don’t think turning downtown DC into a stripmall is anyone’s notion of an economic turnaround plan.

What is it with you "Urbanists"?! Talk like a real person, not some AI bot version. "Downtown" will do just fine.

We “urbanists” actually know DC well. The Wharf and Union Market are not “downtown.”.

Neither have significant levels of housing, so why are they doing so well and downtown not so much? Kind of kills that excuse.

Actually there is tons of housing in those neighborhoods. What are you talking about?

“Tons”. LOL.

There is a lot of new housing in Navy Yard. The Wharf has a few hundred multi-million dollar condos complimented by DCHA and Section 8 housing in the adjacent community. There is clearly not enough people that live there that could ever keep that boardwalk of mediocre restaurants viable.

Union Market area similarly just has a few apartment buildings and clearly not enough to make the vendors at La Cosecha viable because it’s at the ground floor of a large building.

Union Market itself has no housing above it (how awful!) and sits next to a good sized surface parking lot and it’s thriving.

Go figure.

Wtf are you talking about? NOMA is crammed with housing, then you have all of the rowhouses/small apartments south of Union Market. Granted SW doesn’t have as much new housing but still absurd. You really need to get out of Barnaby Woods more often.

The fact that you think NOMA is contiguous with Union Market says a lot about how well you know DC. Not much evidently. A lot of the so-called progressives trying to influence DC politics seem to live in Takoma Park and Hyattsville, which probably explains why you don’t know basic geography or neighborhoods.

wtf are you talking about? there is new housing ALL AROUND Union Market, which yes, includes the area known as NOMA. Literally, wtf are you talking about? and of course new buildings right in the Union Market area, and the existing dense residential south of it and Eckington to the North. Some of these areas could be better connected to market itself, but they are working on that with the new NOMA metro exit and Dave Thomas circle and improvements to the Met Branch trail.

Like I’m just scratching my head about this. Are you thinking that the fact that someone has to walk or bike down M St to get from NOMA to Union Markt means they are not contiguous? That’s just really odd. It sounds like you must drive everywhere and can’t fathom walking 10 minutes to get to dinner?

It’s funny how angry you get when confronted with the fact that you don’t know DC neighborhoods. Now NOMA is a 10 minute walk to Union Market.

Guess what. NOMA is also a 10 minute walk to downtown. So why isn’t downtown thriving?

You’re a joke.

Honestly can you show me on a map wtf you mean? Every building in NOMA is close enough to Union Market to walk there. I live in the neighborhood. By what definition is NOMA not next to Union Market?

[Anonymous]

brb going to go check out Union Market rn, which is almost no doubt a zombified empty hellscape for mother’s day brunch due to the lack of free curbside parking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just wanted to note that La Cosecha has a large parking garage underneath it where you can park for free for the first three hours. It is also used as overflow parking for Union Market.

Every large building being built in the Union Market area has a parking garage, there is zero reason to rely on street parking there. Eventually they'll get rid of the lot at UM to build another building there (with underground parking). Also eventually none of the parking in that neighborhood will be free unless you are shopping at Trader Joe's.

This is how urban development works.

Surface parking lots and then above ground garages are more highly preferred than underground garages from a consumer standpoint. All of the surface lots at Pike and Rose fill first before the garages. In downtown Bethesda, the above ground lots fill before the underground lots which never fill. People will circle the garage in Bethesda Row for 15 minutes and not even consider parking in the underground garage just around the corner that has 700 spaces.

It doesn't matter. Pike and Rose is in the suburbs. Surface lots are incredibly inefficient in the urban core and surface lots don't last. The surface lot at Union Market will be eliminated in the next few years. It's not even well maintained now -- it's nothing like the lots at Pike and Rose which were built to last a long time.

The developers who are building up Union Market are going to force all the parking underground because it allows them to put up buildings with street level retail and then high rise apartments, greatly increasing the value of the lot. Also, since the build up of the neighborhood involves so many apartments, the development is building in a customer base that does not even need a car, on top of the people who live nearby in NoMa. None of those people are going to drive to Union Market. These are people who bought there specifically so they could walk to all the amenities.

Development in the city and in the suburbs operates differently. Eventually it will be close to impossible to park in Union Market, and when you do, it will cost a lot of money, just like in Navy Yard or the Wharf. And suburbanites will complain. And no one will care because the neighborhood will have enough well off residents to sustain business there, and people from outside the city will just have to suck it up and pay a premium for underground parking, or use public transportation. And many of you will, because you actually like these destinations and they offer a lot more than anything you have in the burbs. Even at a place like Pike and Rose or the Mosaic District, which ultimately are just facsimiles of what the city offers. Sorry.

Hm. The ratio of 28 yr olds without kids or a mortgage relative to the rest of the adults in DC and the close suburbs is lopsided in favor of the latter. Spoiler alert - the group that doesn’t live in the micro apartments has more disposable income.

But, feel free to push the vision that the younger, carless renters alone can sustain the kind of CRE conversion needed in downtown DC

I don’t even understand what that word salad meant.

The rest of us get that driving to a city center and parking in a surface lot or street for cheap, right in front of the restaurant you want to go to, is not really a thing.

If you chose to live driving distance away from the city core and won’t take metro, it is what it is.

I don’t think turning downtown DC into a stripmall is anyone’s notion of an economic turnaround plan.

What is it with you "Urbanists"?! Talk like a real person, not some AI bot version. "Downtown" will do just fine.

We “urbanists” actually know DC well. The Wharf and Union Market are not “downtown.”.

Neither have significant levels of housing, so why are they doing so well and downtown not so much? Kind of kills that excuse.

Actually there is tons of housing in those neighborhoods. What are you talking about?

“Tons”. LOL.

There is a lot of new housing in Navy Yard. The Wharf has a few hundred multi-million dollar condos complimented by DCHA and Section 8 housing in the adjacent community. There is clearly not enough people that live there that could ever keep that boardwalk of mediocre restaurants viable.

Union Market area similarly just has a few apartment buildings and clearly not enough to make the vendors at La Cosecha viable because it’s at the ground floor of a large building.

Union Market itself has no housing above it (how awful!) and sits next to a good sized surface parking lot and it’s thriving.

Go figure.

Wtf are you talking about? NOMA is crammed with housing, then you have all of the rowhouses/small apartments south of Union Market. Granted SW doesn’t have as much new housing but still absurd. You really need to get out of Barnaby Woods more often.

The fact that you think NOMA is contiguous with Union Market says a lot about how well you know DC. Not much evidently. A lot of the so-called progressives trying to influence DC politics seem to live in Takoma Park and Hyattsville, which probably explains why you don’t know basic geography or neighborhoods.

wtf are you talking about? there is new housing ALL AROUND Union Market, which yes, includes the area known as NOMA. Literally, wtf are you talking about? and of course new buildings right in the Union Market area, and the existing dense residential south of it and Eckington to the North. Some of these areas could be better connected to market itself, but they are working on that with the new NOMA metro exit and Dave Thomas circle and improvements to the Met Branch trail.

Like I’m just scratching my head about this. Are you thinking that the fact that someone has to walk or bike down M St to get from NOMA to Union Markt means they are not contiguous? That’s just really odd. It sounds like you must drive everywhere and can’t fathom walking 10 minutes to get to dinner?

It’s funny how angry you get when confronted with the fact that you don’t know DC neighborhoods. Now NOMA is a 10 minute walk to Union Market.

Guess what. NOMA is also a 10 minute walk to downtown. So why isn’t downtown thriving?

You’re a joke.

Honestly can you show me on a map wtf you mean? Every building in NOMA is close enough to Union Market to walk there. I live in the neighborhood. By what definition is NOMA not next to Union Market?

Now you keep shifting. It’s funny the language change. First it’s the same neighborhood then it’s 10 minutes and now it’s next to. Blah, blah, blah.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:brb going to go check out Union Market rn, which is almost no doubt a zombified empty hellscape for mother’s day brunch due to the lack of free curbside parking.

Why not go the same distance the other direction? Why is that area struggling? You're so smart. Sorry, I meant smug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just wanted to note that La Cosecha has a large parking garage underneath it where you can park for free for the first three hours. It is also used as overflow parking for Union Market.

Every large building being built in the Union Market area has a parking garage, there is zero reason to rely on street parking there. Eventually they'll get rid of the lot at UM to build another building there (with underground parking). Also eventually none of the parking in that neighborhood will be free unless you are shopping at Trader Joe's.

This is how urban development works.

Surface parking lots and then above ground garages are more highly preferred than underground garages from a consumer standpoint. All of the surface lots at Pike and Rose fill first before the garages. In downtown Bethesda, the above ground lots fill before the underground lots which never fill. People will circle the garage in Bethesda Row for 15 minutes and not even consider parking in the underground garage just around the corner that has 700 spaces.

It doesn't matter. Pike and Rose is in the suburbs. Surface lots are incredibly inefficient in the urban core and surface lots don't last. The surface lot at Union Market will be eliminated in the next few years. It's not even well maintained now -- it's nothing like the lots at Pike and Rose which were built to last a long time.

The developers who are building up Union Market are going to force all the parking underground because it allows them to put up buildings with street level retail and then high rise apartments, greatly increasing the value of the lot. Also, since the build up of the neighborhood involves so many apartments, the development is building in a customer base that does not even need a car, on top of the people who live nearby in NoMa. None of those people are going to drive to Union Market. These are people who bought there specifically so they could walk to all the amenities.

Development in the city and in the suburbs operates differently. Eventually it will be close to impossible to park in Union Market, and when you do, it will cost a lot of money, just like in Navy Yard or the Wharf. And suburbanites will complain. And no one will care because the neighborhood will have enough well off residents to sustain business there, and people from outside the city will just have to suck it up and pay a premium for underground parking, or use public transportation. And many of you will, because you actually like these destinations and they offer a lot more than anything you have in the burbs. Even at a place like Pike and Rose or the Mosaic District, which ultimately are just facsimiles of what the city offers. Sorry.

Hm. The ratio of 28 yr olds without kids or a mortgage relative to the rest of the adults in DC and the close suburbs is lopsided in favor of the latter. Spoiler alert - the group that doesn’t live in the micro apartments has more disposable income.

But, feel free to push the vision that the younger, carless renters alone can sustain the kind of CRE conversion needed in downtown DC

I don’t even understand what that word salad meant.

The rest of us get that driving to a city center and parking in a surface lot or street for cheap, right in front of the restaurant you want to go to, is not really a thing.

If you chose to live driving distance away from the city core and won’t take metro, it is what it is.

I don’t think turning downtown DC into a stripmall is anyone’s notion of an economic turnaround plan.

What is it with you "Urbanists"?! Talk like a real person, not some AI bot version. "Downtown" will do just fine.

We “urbanists” actually know DC well. The Wharf and Union Market are not “downtown.”.

Neither have significant levels of housing, so why are they doing so well and downtown not so much? Kind of kills that excuse.

Actually there is tons of housing in those neighborhoods. What are you talking about?

“Tons”. LOL.

There is a lot of new housing in Navy Yard. The Wharf has a few hundred multi-million dollar condos complimented by DCHA and Section 8 housing in the adjacent community. There is clearly not enough people that live there that could ever keep that boardwalk of mediocre restaurants viable.

Union Market area similarly just has a few apartment buildings and clearly not enough to make the vendors at La Cosecha viable because it’s at the ground floor of a large building.

Union Market itself has no housing above it (how awful!) and sits next to a good sized surface parking lot and it’s thriving.

Go figure.

Wtf are you talking about? NOMA is crammed with housing, then you have all of the rowhouses/small apartments south of Union Market. Granted SW doesn’t have as much new housing but still absurd. You really need to get out of Barnaby Woods more often.

The fact that you think NOMA is contiguous with Union Market says a lot about how well you know DC. Not much evidently. A lot of the so-called progressives trying to influence DC politics seem to live in Takoma Park and Hyattsville, which probably explains why you don’t know basic geography or neighborhoods.

wtf are you talking about? there is new housing ALL AROUND Union Market, which yes, includes the area known as NOMA. Literally, wtf are you talking about? and of course new buildings right in the Union Market area, and the existing dense residential south of it and Eckington to the North. Some of these areas could be better connected to market itself, but they are working on that with the new NOMA metro exit and Dave Thomas circle and improvements to the Met Branch trail.

Like I’m just scratching my head about this. Are you thinking that the fact that someone has to walk or bike down M St to get from NOMA to Union Markt means they are not contiguous? That’s just really odd. It sounds like you must drive everywhere and can’t fathom walking 10 minutes to get to dinner?

It’s funny how angry you get when confronted with the fact that you don’t know DC neighborhoods. Now NOMA is a 10 minute walk to Union Market.

Guess what. NOMA is also a 10 minute walk to downtown. So why isn’t downtown thriving?

You’re a joke.

Honestly can you show me on a map wtf you mean? Every building in NOMA is close enough to Union Market to walk there. I live in the neighborhood. By what definition is NOMA not next to Union Market?

Now you keep shifting. It’s funny the language change. First it’s the same neighborhood then it’s 10 minutes and now it’s next to. Blah, blah, blah.

I honestly do not know what point you think you are making?

The claim was that the Wharf and Union Market retail are failing because of lack of free street parking and housing.

Many replied to you that the Wharf and Union Market have housing all around, and most people walk and metro there.

Now you’re trying to claim there’s some big “gotcha” about NOMA being next to Union Market and not literally IN Union Market?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:brb going to go check out Union Market rn, which is almost no doubt a zombified empty hellscape for mother’s day brunch due to the lack of free curbside parking.

Why not go the same distance the other direction? Why is that area struggling? You're so smart. Sorry, I meant smug.

What point are you trying to make hon? Did you hit the Mother’s Day mimosas a bit hard?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:brb going to go check out Union Market rn, which is almost no doubt a zombified empty hellscape for mother’s day brunch due to the lack of free curbside parking.

Why not go the same distance the other direction? Why is that area struggling? You're so smart. Sorry, I meant smug.

What point are you trying to make hon? Did you hit the Mother’s Day mimosas a bit hard?

What point are you trying to make. You already said a bunch of stuff that’s dumb and nonsensical. Setting aside your confusion about neighborhoods, Union Market is not thriving because you can walk from NOMA. Particularly when H street is even closer to you and going the opposite direction. And you can equally walk to Chinatown at the same distance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was in a meeting today near the Capitol on a higher floor and the entire glass-box modern office building across the street was dead empty.

3 of the floors were empty shells ready for construction, but no activity. Of the floors that had finished office space, I saw exactly ONE PERSON in the office on that side of the building (a receptionist at the front desk for a larger office space).

It's grim.

I wonder if this is my office bldg. 75% of the space is vacant (no tenant). In our part, very few ppl are in on any given day.

This is interesting. For my job, I sometimes hear presentations by RE investors and they’ve indicated that the area around capital hill is considered solid for RE because Congress is always in person and the libbyists are a ready made market that want in person offices close to the Hill. Although I would guess those offices are often not filled with people unless Congress is in session and working on something those lobbyists care about.

The other point that the investors have made is that the “premier” buildings in each city are holding strong because the companies that want in-person space want fancy new or newly renovated buildings with great amenities. It’s the older buildings that are really struggling and cratering. I’m worried about our building, which is a gorgeous building over a hundred years old with original lobby work …. But I don’t think they’ve upgraded the hvac, windows or plumbing since at least 1960. They did a cosmetic renovation about 30 years ago so it looks beautiful but is falling apart on the inside. It would be such a shame if it goes empty and we lose that beautiful lobby and facade. I suspect there’s probably a bunch of DC buildings in that category.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I just wanted to note that La Cosecha has a large parking garage underneath it where you can park for free for the first three hours. It is also used as overflow parking for Union Market.

Every large building being built in the Union Market area has a parking garage, there is zero reason to rely on street parking there. Eventually they'll get rid of the lot at UM to build another building there (with underground parking). Also eventually none of the parking in that neighborhood will be free unless you are shopping at Trader Joe's.

This is how urban development works.

Surface parking lots and then above ground garages are more highly preferred than underground garages from a consumer standpoint. All of the surface lots at Pike and Rose fill first before the garages. In downtown Bethesda, the above ground lots fill before the underground lots which never fill. People will circle the garage in Bethesda Row for 15 minutes and not even consider parking in the underground garage just around the corner that has 700 spaces.

It doesn't matter. Pike and Rose is in the suburbs. Surface lots are incredibly inefficient in the urban core and surface lots don't last. The surface lot at Union Market will be eliminated in the next few years. It's not even well maintained now -- it's nothing like the lots at Pike and Rose which were built to last a long time.

The developers who are building up Union Market are going to force all the parking underground because it allows them to put up buildings with street level retail and then high rise apartments, greatly increasing the value of the lot. Also, since the build up of the neighborhood involves so many apartments, the development is building in a customer base that does not even need a car, on top of the people who live nearby in NoMa. None of those people are going to drive to Union Market. These are people who bought there specifically so they could walk to all the amenities.

Development in the city and in the suburbs operates differently. Eventually it will be close to impossible to park in Union Market, and when you do, it will cost a lot of money, just like in Navy Yard or the Wharf. And suburbanites will complain. And no one will care because the neighborhood will have enough well off residents to sustain business there, and people from outside the city will just have to suck it up and pay a premium for underground parking, or use public transportation. And many of you will, because you actually like these destinations and they offer a lot more than anything you have in the burbs. Even at a place like Pike and Rose or the Mosaic District, which ultimately are just facsimiles of what the city offers. Sorry.

Hm. The ratio of 28 yr olds without kids or a mortgage relative to the rest of the adults in DC and the close suburbs is lopsided in favor of the latter. Spoiler alert - the group that doesn’t live in the micro apartments has more disposable income.

But, feel free to push the vision that the younger, carless renters alone can sustain the kind of CRE conversion needed in downtown DC

I don’t even understand what that word salad meant.

The rest of us get that driving to a city center and parking in a surface lot or street for cheap, right in front of the restaurant you want to go to, is not really a thing.

If you chose to live driving distance away from the city core and won’t take metro, it is what it is.

I don’t think turning downtown DC into a stripmall is anyone’s notion of an economic turnaround plan.

What is it with you "Urbanists"?! Talk like a real person, not some AI bot version. "Downtown" will do just fine.

We “urbanists” actually know DC well. The Wharf and Union Market are not “downtown.”.

Neither have significant levels of housing, so why are they doing so well and downtown not so much? Kind of kills that excuse.

Actually there is tons of housing in those neighborhoods. What are you talking about?

“Tons”. LOL.

There is a lot of new housing in Navy Yard. The Wharf has a few hundred multi-million dollar condos complimented by DCHA and Section 8 housing in the adjacent community. There is clearly not enough people that live there that could ever keep that boardwalk of mediocre restaurants viable.

Union Market area similarly just has a few apartment buildings and clearly not enough to make the vendors at La Cosecha viable because it’s at the ground floor of a large building.

Union Market itself has no housing above it (how awful!) and sits next to a good sized surface parking lot and it’s thriving.

Go figure.

Wtf are you talking about? NOMA is crammed with housing, then you have all of the rowhouses/small apartments south of Union Market. Granted SW doesn’t have as much new housing but still absurd. You really need to get out of Barnaby Woods more often.

The fact that you think NOMA is contiguous with Union Market says a lot about how well you know DC. Not much evidently. A lot of the so-called progressives trying to influence DC politics seem to live in Takoma Park and Hyattsville, which probably explains why you don’t know basic geography or neighborhoods.

wtf are you talking about? there is new housing ALL AROUND Union Market, which yes, includes the area known as NOMA. Literally, wtf are you talking about? and of course new buildings right in the Union Market area, and the existing dense residential south of it and Eckington to the North. Some of these areas could be better connected to market itself, but they are working on that with the new NOMA metro exit and Dave Thomas circle and improvements to the Met Branch trail.

Like I’m just scratching my head about this. Are you thinking that the fact that someone has to walk or bike down M St to get from NOMA to Union Markt means they are not contiguous? That’s just really odd. It sounds like you must drive everywhere and can’t fathom walking 10 minutes to get to dinner?

It’s funny how angry you get when confronted with the fact that you don’t know DC neighborhoods. Now NOMA is a 10 minute walk to Union Market.

Guess what. NOMA is also a 10 minute walk to downtown. So why isn’t downtown thriving?

You’re a joke.

Honestly can you show me on a map wtf you mean? Every building in NOMA is close enough to Union Market to walk there. I live in the neighborhood. By what definition is NOMA not next to Union Market?

Now you keep shifting. It’s funny the language change. First it’s the same neighborhood then it’s 10 minutes and now it’s next to. Blah, blah, blah.

I honestly do not know what point you think you are making?

The claim was that the Wharf and Union Market retail are failing because of lack of free street parking and housing.

Many replied to you that the Wharf and Union Market have housing all around, and most people walk and metro there.

Now you’re trying to claim there’s some big “gotcha” about NOMA being next to Union Market and not literally IN Union Market?

LOL. You don’t know neighborhoods and struggle with reading. The Wharf and Union Market are only thriving because they have parking. But they could use more. All of the neighborhoods struggling in DC lack parking, which furthers reasons for people to avoid. Heck, this entire thread was started by an OP commenting about how much Union Market was thriving judging by how hard of a time they had finding parking.

Let’s turn this around. What point are you trying to make? You clearly have none and further are now just making up untrue things for the purposes of arguing.

You’re dumb. Enjoy your Mother’s Day.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:brb going to go check out Union Market rn, which is almost no doubt a zombified empty hellscape for mother’s day brunch due to the lack of free curbside parking.

Why not go the same distance the other direction? Why is that area struggling? You're so smart. Sorry, I meant smug.

What point are you trying to make hon? Did you hit the Mother’s Day mimosas a bit hard?

What point are you trying to make. You already said a bunch of stuff that’s dumb and nonsensical. Setting aside your confusion about neighborhoods, Union Market is not thriving because you can walk from NOMA. Particularly when H street is even closer to you and going the opposite direction. And you can equally walk to Chinatown at the same distance.

Now you’re truly making zero sense. But fwiw I do *also* walk to H St and Chinatown (I live on the Hill not NOMA though.)

Can you get back to proving your original assertion that Union Market and the Wharf are failing due to lack of housing and street parking?

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Anonymous wrote:I just wanted to note that La Cosecha has a large parking garage underneath it where you can park for free for the first three hours. It is also used as overflow parking for Union Market.

Every large building being built in the Union Market area has a parking garage, there is zero reason to rely on street parking there. Eventually they'll get rid of the lot at UM to build another building there (with underground parking). Also eventually none of the parking in that neighborhood will be free unless you are shopping at Trader Joe's.

This is how urban development works.

Surface parking lots and then above ground garages are more highly preferred than underground garages from a consumer standpoint. All of the surface lots at Pike and Rose fill first before the garages. In downtown Bethesda, the above ground lots fill before the underground lots which never fill. People will circle the garage in Bethesda Row for 15 minutes and not even consider parking in the underground garage just around the corner that has 700 spaces.

It doesn't matter. Pike and Rose is in the suburbs. Surface lots are incredibly inefficient in the urban core and surface lots don't last. The surface lot at Union Market will be eliminated in the next few years. It's not even well maintained now -- it's nothing like the lots at Pike and Rose which were built to last a long time.

The developers who are building up Union Market are going to force all the parking underground because it allows them to put up buildings with street level retail and then high rise apartments, greatly increasing the value of the lot. Also, since the build up of the neighborhood involves so many apartments, the development is building in a customer base that does not even need a car, on top of the people who live nearby in NoMa. None of those people are going to drive to Union Market. These are people who bought there specifically so they could walk to all the amenities.

Development in the city and in the suburbs operates differently. Eventually it will be close to impossible to park in Union Market, and when you do, it will cost a lot of money, just like in Navy Yard or the Wharf. And suburbanites will complain. And no one will care because the neighborhood will have enough well off residents to sustain business there, and people from outside the city will just have to suck it up and pay a premium for underground parking, or use public transportation. And many of you will, because you actually like these destinations and they offer a lot more than anything you have in the burbs. Even at a place like Pike and Rose or the Mosaic District, which ultimately are just facsimiles of what the city offers. Sorry.

Hm. The ratio of 28 yr olds without kids or a mortgage relative to the rest of the adults in DC and the close suburbs is lopsided in favor of the latter. Spoiler alert - the group that doesn’t live in the micro apartments has more disposable income.

But, feel free to push the vision that the younger, carless renters alone can sustain the kind of CRE conversion needed in downtown DC

I don’t even understand what that word salad meant.

The rest of us get that driving to a city center and parking in a surface lot or street for cheap, right in front of the restaurant you want to go to, is not really a thing.

If you chose to live driving distance away from the city core and won’t take metro, it is what it is.

I don’t think turning downtown DC into a stripmall is anyone’s notion of an economic turnaround plan.

What is it with you "Urbanists"?! Talk like a real person, not some AI bot version. "Downtown" will do just fine.

We “urbanists” actually know DC well. The Wharf and Union Market are not “downtown.”.

Neither have significant levels of housing, so why are they doing so well and downtown not so much? Kind of kills that excuse.

Actually there is tons of housing in those neighborhoods. What are you talking about?

“Tons”. LOL.

There is a lot of new housing in Navy Yard. The Wharf has a few hundred multi-million dollar condos complimented by DCHA and Section 8 housing in the adjacent community. There is clearly not enough people that live there that could ever keep that boardwalk of mediocre restaurants viable.

Union Market area similarly just has a few apartment buildings and clearly not enough to make the vendors at La Cosecha viable because it’s at the ground floor of a large building.

Union Market itself has no housing above it (how awful!) and sits next to a good sized surface parking lot and it’s thriving.

Go figure.

Wtf are you talking about? NOMA is crammed with housing, then you have all of the rowhouses/small apartments south of Union Market. Granted SW doesn’t have as much new housing but still absurd. You really need to get out of Barnaby Woods more often.

The fact that you think NOMA is contiguous with Union Market says a lot about how well you know DC. Not much evidently. A lot of the so-called progressives trying to influence DC politics seem to live in Takoma Park and Hyattsville, which probably explains why you don’t know basic geography or neighborhoods.

wtf are you talking about? there is new housing ALL AROUND Union Market, which yes, includes the area known as NOMA. Literally, wtf are you talking about? and of course new buildings right in the Union Market area, and the existing dense residential south of it and Eckington to the North. Some of these areas could be better connected to market itself, but they are working on that with the new NOMA metro exit and Dave Thomas circle and improvements to the Met Branch trail.

Like I’m just scratching my head about this. Are you thinking that the fact that someone has to walk or bike down M St to get from NOMA to Union Markt means they are not contiguous? That’s just really odd. It sounds like you must drive everywhere and can’t fathom walking 10 minutes to get to dinner?

It’s funny how angry you get when confronted with the fact that you don’t know DC neighborhoods. Now NOMA is a 10 minute walk to Union Market.

Guess what. NOMA is also a 10 minute walk to downtown. So why isn’t downtown thriving?

You’re a joke.

Honestly can you show me on a map wtf you mean? Every building in NOMA is close enough to Union Market to walk there. I live in the neighborhood. By what definition is NOMA not next to Union Market?

Now you keep shifting. It’s funny the language change. First it’s the same neighborhood then it’s 10 minutes and now it’s next to. Blah, blah, blah.

I honestly do not know what point you think you are making?

The claim was that the Wharf and Union Market retail are failing because of lack of free street parking and housing.

Many replied to you that the Wharf and Union Market have housing all around, and most people walk and metro there.

Now you’re trying to claim there’s some big “gotcha” about NOMA being next to Union Market and not literally IN Union Market?

LOL. You don’t know neighborhoods and struggle with reading. The Wharf and Union Market are only thriving because they have parking. But they could use more. All of the neighborhoods struggling in DC lack parking, which furthers reasons for people to avoid. Heck, this entire thread was started by an OP commenting about how much Union Market was thriving judging by how hard of a time they had finding parking.

Let’s turn this around. What point are you trying to make? You clearly have none and further are now just making up untrue things for the purposes of arguing.

You’re dumb. Enjoy your Mother’s Day.

I’m very confused because the initial argument (maybe it was a different PP) was in fact that the Wharf and La Cosecha are failing due to LACK of parking and housing.

My point is that the Wharf and Union Market are in fact thriving because they are pedestrian-friendly and in dense urban areas surrounded by housing, and are accessible by transit. Therefore, the assertion that downtown can only be rescued by catering to drivers by providing free parking is untrue. The PP’s example of struggling to find street parking in a busy urban area is literally just describing living in a city.

The reason areas like Gallery Place and H St have gone downhill has zero to do with parking. Notably the part of H St that is denser with less parking (between Union Station and 8th more or less) is doing much better than H St in the higher blocks. If you think free surface parking is all it takes, I invite you to enjoy all the amenities of Hechinger Mall.

[Anonymous]

There’s nowhere to park downtown anymore. Easier to just go to the suburbs if I need something

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There’s nowhere to park downtown anymore. Easier to just go to the suburbs if I need something

When was the time you could just cruise up to wherever you wanted to go downtown and park in front of it?