Dartmouth Announces Test Scores Required Starting Next Year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My UMC kid said this means she needs to get her 1530 up to 1550. I don't think so .. do you?

No.

It means her 1530 has returned to having value like it did pre-test optional.

Also means that the score will be evaluated in context. The "value" will be based on zip code and HS resources.

A low income kid with a 1400 has just a good a chance at Dartmouth as a UMC kid with a 1530.

Are you OK with that?

Our magnate schools provide SAT prep to all students on free lunch level family income but not to muddle class families. Many middle class students can't afford private prep centers, they are at a disadvantage.

Everyone can afford Kumon prep.

But that is a school issue. If they are offering SAT prep to some, they should offer it to all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My UMC kid said this means she needs to get her 1530 up to 1550. I don't think so .. do you?

No.

It means her 1530 has returned to having value like it did pre-test optional.

Also means that the score will be evaluated in context. The "value" will be based on zip code and HS resources.

A low income kid with a 1400 has just a good a chance at Dartmouth as a UMC kid with a 1530.

Are you OK with that?

Our magnate schools provide SAT prep to all students on free lunch level family income but not to muddle class families. Many middle class students can't afford private prep centers, they are at a disadvantage.

Which magnates fund your schools? This sounds like a great idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My UMC kid said this means she needs to get her 1530 up to 1550. I don't think so .. do you?

No.

It means her 1530 has returned to having value like it did pre-test optional.

Also means that the score will be evaluated in context. The "value" will be based on zip code and HS resources.

A low income kid with a 1400 has just a good a chance at Dartmouth as a UMC kid with a 1530.

Are you OK with that?

Absolutely


A kid from a Baltimore City school where most of their classmates are illiterate who can score a 1400 SAT is clearly wicked brilliant, perhaps even a genius, and probably incredibly focused and driven.

Agree. It makes a lot of sense to do it this way. Much to the chagrin of the wealthy entitled “but we spent 5K on prep to get the 1510 my kid DESERVES the spot!” crowd.

[Anonymous]

ECs depend largely on resources and connections. Middle class students suffering the most as not getting money from parents and not eligible for freebies or special programs depending on income or race.

[Anonymous]

There are plenty of disadvantaged URM kids at expensive private schools. What about them? They always get in anyway.

I know several current seniors that didn't (2 with 4.3 GPAs, bio and chain supply majors, rejected at VT, one rejected at UVA, and others at Yale, Northwestern, Notre Dame and UNC), but by all means, don't let facts get in the way of your racist mindset.

[Anonymous]

Every connected parent's kid does research with professors, shadowing with doctors, interning at fortune 500, assisting directors, mentoring by senators and what not.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A huge blow to the DEI crowd.

And with legacy beginning to be pulled as well at many colleges...hopefully, we can enter a 'merit-based' admissions era.

I feel like people aren’t reading the article.

Dartmouth is basically saying we will take lots of kids with SAT scores in the 1300s and 1400s coming from disadvantaged schools.

I don’t see how that will help the 1580 Asian kid from TJ. Those parents will be crying louder than ever.

That is not at all what the article said.

Ok, what did it say...here is a direct quote:

“We’re looking for the kids who are excelling in their environment. We know society is unequal,” Beilock said. “Kids that are excelling in their environment, we think, are a good bet to excel at Dartmouth and out in the world.” The admissions office will judge an applicant’s environment partly by comparing his or her test score with the score distribution at the applicant’s high schools, Coffin said. In some cases, even an SAT score well below 1,400 can help an application.

No,

You are misreading.

The article said that kids at those lower performing schools (such as a school where most kids graduate at a 3rd grade reading level or no one takes calculus) with scores in that range (1400+/-) are kids who have proven they can succeed at a school like Dartmouth. In contrast, a kid from a wealthy school with every resource at thier disposal who still only has a middling SAT score but high GPA will struggle.

That statement is talking about the potential to resources ratio. It is not a statement about a hard cut off of test scores.

You are completely misreading the entire article.

My comment was in response to someone claiming that now schools will admit purely on merit. Dartmouth's policy will now accept plenty of kids with a 1300 or 1400 from an under-resourced school vs. the TJ kid with a 1580. It's not even about a wealthy school vs. non-wealthy school (at least from the perspective of student-body wealth).

The TJ parents will continue to cry that the world is biased against them because their 1580 kid was rejected by Dartmouth while some 1300 kid from Harlem public schools was admitted.

Eliminating test optional means the 1580 TJ kid has a reasonable shot against all the other 1500+ applicants, instead of hetting shut out by a rich 4.0 kid with a 1200 SAT who went test optional.

This change benefits the brilliant 1500 kids from affluent or middle class backgrounds. It also benefits the poor white trailer park kid from the meth corridor of the midwest, or the Baltimore City Schools minority kid, who achieved a 1350 or 1400 SAT, in spite of attending a school district where 90% of the students are "graduated" functionally illiterate and unable to do more than 2nd grade math.

In all 3 of those cases, the 1580 TJ kid, the meth corridor poor white kid, and the minority Baltimore city schools kid, returning to test required means the system is returning to a merit based system.

The best and brightest will rise to the top in all 3 scenarios.

Test optional cuts those 3 brilliant kids from a fair shot, in favor of average kids with inflated grades and expensive extracurriculars, raised in wealth, stability and privilege.

I am sorry...you are giving those parents way too much credit. That's not how they define merit. They define merit fairly simplistically...1580 > 1350 period. They don't care about circumstances or potential. To them, the kid that showed more merit was rejected over a kid that showed far less merit.

Sure, they also are happy the rich TO kid is no longer a factor...but literally the way they would run college acceptances is send SAT scores and just go down the list from highest to lowest and that is the first cut of applicants (because there will be thousands with the same scores). So, basically only kids with probably a 1550+ would remain, and now you look at their application.

They don't care about potential.

I think this post shows that the ones freaking out about test optional going away are the rich dc moms demographic parents whose kids are average intelligence (roughly 65 to 85 stanines) with inflated grades.

The parents of kids with very high test scores are thrilled because they understand that this levels the playing field and makes admissions more fair, including for very smart kids from underserved communities.

It will be two groups...the group you mention above and the groups that believe that a high SAT score/high stats = guaranteed admission to a top school (which is also a large group).

You clearly do not have a kid in the top SAT tier.

I have 2, and one below in the mid 80s stanine.

Parents of kids in that range are perfectly understanding of their kids losing slots to kids also in that range.

They understand slots going to a kid from a school such as a Baltimore public high school, who demonstrated their brilliance with a 1400 score range, in spite of goi g to such a horrible incompetent school system.

They are not okay with their rich classmate who cheats in class to get a high GPA, but submitted test optional because of their 1200 SAT, getting spots over the 2 brilliant kids described above.

My kid is currently at a Top 5 school and had a 1580 test score (white, not Asian). I am in that group and I also don't care why or how some kids got accepted TO. I also, don't care if the Baltimore public high school kid with a 1300 gets accepted.

However, our circle for the most part doesn't believe this (mainly Asian and white). So, quit making outlandish statements that represent only your perspective.

There is a significant number of parents that believe college should be a completely stats-driven process. They don't care why that Baltimore public school kid only scored 1300...they still don't believe that kid deserves acceptance over anyone with a higher score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My UMC kid said this means she needs to get her 1530 up to 1550. I don't think so .. do you?

No.

It means her 1530 has returned to having value like it did pre-test optional.

Also means that the score will be evaluated in context. The "value" will be based on zip code and HS resources.

A low income kid with a 1400 has just a good a chance at Dartmouth as a UMC kid with a 1530.

Are you OK with that?

Absolutely


A kid from a Baltimore City school where most of their classmates are illiterate who can score a 1400 SAT is clearly wicked brilliant, perhaps even a genius, and probably incredibly focused and driven.

Agree. It makes a lot of sense to do it this way. Much to the chagrin of the wealthy entitled “but we spent 5K on prep to get the 1510 my kid DESERVES the spot!” crowd.

You really aren't getting it.

The parents of kids in the above 1500 range are perfectly fine with the hypothetical scenario above.

It is those of you with lower scoring rich kids who are emotionally attached to the idea of test optional.

You keep posting as if you want those of us with high scoring kids to get upset along with you.

Psst.

We are not joining your team.

We are thrilled about the schools ditching test optional, even if it means some genuis kid from a poor failing school with a 1400 SAT gets in, and out kid gets overlooked for some other 1510 SAT kid at our upper middle class NoVa school.

That is a far better situation and much easier to accept, than our 1500 kid getting rejected while.the classmate with a 1240 who applied test optional gets accepted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There are plenty of disadvantaged URM kids at expensive private schools. What about them? They always get in anyway.

I know several current seniors that didn't (2 with 4.3 GPAs, bio and chain supply majors, rejected at VT, one rejected at UVA, and others at Yale, Northwestern, Notre Dame and UNC), but by all means, don't let facts get in the way of your racist mindset.

This is SC ruling. They are now getting rejected with those stats just like the whites and Asians always have.

[Anonymous]

So many amazing candidates with perfect scores and high grades in rigorous courses, volunteering and dedicated extracurriculars don't get admitted so no guarantees there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A huge blow to the DEI crowd.

And with legacy beginning to be pulled as well at many colleges...hopefully, we can enter a 'merit-based' admissions era.

I feel like people aren’t reading the article.

Dartmouth is basically saying we will take lots of kids with SAT scores in the 1300s and 1400s coming from disadvantaged schools.

I don’t see how that will help the 1580 Asian kid from TJ. Those parents will be crying louder than ever.

What about the 1580 white kid from TJ? Or the 1580 black kid from TJ? You like them, though, right? Your prejudice is so glaringly obvious. Take your jealousy and racism, and shove it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So many amazing candidates with perfect scores and high grades in rigorous courses, volunteering and dedicated extracurriculars don't get admitted so no guarantees there.

It’s always been that way, even when scores were required. We have holistic admissions in the US and class composition balancing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Respect.
More and more selective schools will join.

Many have already

[Anonymous]

Academics don't have as much value as people paint them to be.

[Anonymous]

This will stop the madness. The kid with an overinflated GPA and a test of 1310 from UMC/affluent zip code is not going to apply anymore, whereas they likely did in these recent years because 'why not' I have a chance.