Can a normal smart kid get into an ivy these days?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, aid tends to be close to a full ride. They do, however, have a few hours a day built into their schedules to hone extracurricular skills.

You could easily prove that poster wrong by providing a link to the financial aid offices at the top boarding schools. But you’re not going to do that, because it’s not true. It’s absolutely not true that half of the students in the top boarding schools in this country are attending for virtually nothing. Absolute bullshit.

In fact, it just took me five seconds to prove myself right. Here is a link to Andover financial aid page. It says that 45% of returning students receive financial aid averaging $43,000 a year. Full cost is just under $70,000 a year. So that means 55% of the class is paying $70,000 a year for school, and 45% are paying on average $27,000 a year. That’s not “close to a full ride” by a long shot. And Andover is among the most generous of boarding schools when it comes to aid.

https://www.andover.edu/admission/tuition-and-financial-aid

Andover is a bad example because they have a large percentage of students who are day (non-boarding ) and who do not pay the full amount but only pay $54.000.

Here is another example: "Thirty-nine percent of Deerfield’s current students receive financial aid. The average boarding grant size is $58,345 and constitutes 82% of the total cost of tuition and fees."

Ok, so 61 percent are full freight and the other 39 percent pay tens of thousands a year. Got it.

That’s not close to half getting a full ride either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This board is so weird. Yes, of course it's possible. I know of a brown, two Yale, one Columbia just off the top of my head from this year. All normal smart. Public schools. Great kids, great grades, scores, activities. But normal smart.

+1
Stanford, Yale, Cornell, Columbia, Duke from my kid's HS last year

Alexandria? Or St Albans?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These schools sound awful. Tracy Flicks on steroids. Blech.

Yeah, honestly, I don't see the appeal of an ivy today. Very rich and very poor all competing to see who can parrot the party line the bestest.

And yet unless your kid is going to MIT or a few other outliers, those Ivy kids are on average smarter than the ones at your kid's school. Hmm.

So was the Unabomber. Hmm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not unless they are first gen, rural, a recruitable athlete, URM, or have famous/powerful connections.

Otherwise they go to Big State U with a ton of merit aid and/or the honors college.

I laughed out loud reading this because it is 100% accurate.

I'm biased but my kid graduated with straight As, 33 credits, a 4.6 GPA on a 4.0 scale, 1580 SAT, top 1% of class, multiple published works, an multi-sport athlete, captain of robotics team and savant like skills in his intended major from a full pay family and he goes in only to safeties. White, unhooked male. Everyone knew who my kid was locally- he is genius IQ smart....and at a state flagship honors with merit. LOL. Oh and he went to a seminar on his essay by college AO and they called it "brilliant" so it wasn't a "bad essay". Aside from now seeing the farce this admissions process is (anyone wonder the logic of 60K a year AO's deciding who's worthy or not?) I have learned to accept it is a game you cannot win, you are either "connected" or URM. On the other hand, my kid is surrounded by similar brilliant rejects at his program so what is happening is these kids are not being cancelled, they are establishing new nexuses. Time will tell of the success of the highly coveted school and their filters, I have a hard time believing they are very fine tuned after seeing the test optional, covid-era, dei, legecy preference, bloodbath my kid went through.

The problem is, there are thousands of kids like yours. How are the AO's supposed to distinguish them without flipping a coin? My kid sounds like your kid. absolutely no difference.

OP here. My kid is like pp’s kid. He has perfect grades and test scores. I’m torn how involved DH and I should be getting something on his resume that stands out. We do have the money and resources but it would be all us, not DS. DS is a well rounded kid in all categories. He is not nationally ranked in anything, just usually best at the school or state. I believe this makes him UVA material, not Harvard or Penn. He loves UPenn as does every other kid.

You are the first to acknowledge that it takes the parents to make it happen. All the kids I know who had non profits, businesses, or juggled multiple leadership positions while being a perfect student and artist all had parents doing the work behind the scenes: from writing speeches to finishing art projects, to running the bulk of the non profit. I know parents who set up non profits that served literally not one person. And others who used connections to get awards for their kids. And this is what kills me about where college competition is now. Don’t dismay if your kids ends up in a “third tier” school, odds are they will be sounded by kids with more integrity than at a top 10.

Agree. The top schools are becoming a joke between the unqualified TO students and the wealthy non-profit creators at the other end.

[Anonymous]

Agree. The top schools are becoming a joke between the unqualified TO students and the wealthy non-profit creators at the other end.

Nah. Stop trying to make fetch happen.

[Anonymous]

My kid is a frosh at an Ivy. His suitemates are nerdy, white and Asian MC kids from all over the country. Mostly pursuing STEM. He calls them "cracked," as in some took several years of post calc-math in HS, are competing in national university math contests, have won national writing awards, speak multiple languages, are skilled musicians, or have published something. These are not regular kids, though they are not the types whose parents started non-profits for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not unless they are first gen, rural, a recruitable athlete, URM, or have famous/powerful connections.

Otherwise they go to Big State U with a ton of merit aid and/or the honors college.

I laughed out loud reading this because it is 100% accurate.

I'm biased but my kid graduated with straight As, 33 credits, a 4.6 GPA on a 4.0 scale, 1580 SAT, top 1% of class, multiple published works, an multi-sport athlete, captain of robotics team and savant like skills in his intended major from a full pay family and he goes in only to safeties. White, unhooked male. Everyone knew who my kid was locally- he is genius IQ smart....and at a state flagship honors with merit. LOL. Oh and he went to a seminar on his essay by college AO and they called it "brilliant" so it wasn't a "bad essay". Aside from now seeing the farce this admissions process is (anyone wonder the logic of 60K a year AO's deciding who's worthy or not?) I have learned to accept it is a game you cannot win, you are either "connected" or URM. On the other hand, my kid is surrounded by similar brilliant rejects at his program so what is happening is these kids are not being cancelled, they are establishing new nexuses. Time will tell of the success of the highly coveted school and their filters, I have a hard time believing they are very fine tuned after seeing the test optional, covid-era, dei, legecy preference, bloodbath my kid went through.

The problem is, there are thousands of kids like yours. How are the AO's supposed to distinguish them without flipping a coin? My kid sounds like your kid. absolutely no difference.

OP here. My kid is like pp’s kid. He has perfect grades and test scores. I’m torn how involved DH and I should be getting something on his resume that stands out. We do have the money and resources but it would be all us, not DS. DS is a well rounded kid in all categories. He is not nationally ranked in anything, just usually best at the school or state. I believe this makes him UVA material, not Harvard or Penn. He loves UPenn as does every other kid.

it might be good to spend time outside of this board on Reddit. It’ll be a good idea for you to read the profiles of some of the kids that were admitted into Penn ED or other ivies so you can get a sense for the types of things they have on their résumé.

You can decide how much time or effort you’ll be able to put into manufacturing that type of passion project and frankly if it’s even too late.

There seems to be numerous Reddit groups that are focused on college admissions. Are there any that you can point to specifically that you would recommend?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your kid sounds well rounded, qualified for college and will likely get into a number of good schools. This is not the profile of a student the ivies want to educate these days. Today, Ivies want to educate either (a) students who are so phenomenal at a single thing that they will benefit from being with the best in that field or (b)students who could really benefit from the economic boost an ivy name gives them.

You are not alone. There are thousands of us parents who went to Ivies in the last century as well rounded students and who would not get in today. For the most part, our kids are not the profile of who the Ivies want to educate now and I’m okay with that. My well rounded, smart kids who get good grades - whether they go to a SLAC or a state flagship - will do just fine.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a frosh at an Ivy. His suitemates are nerdy, white and Asian MC kids from all over the country. Mostly pursuing STEM. He calls them "cracked," as in some took several years of post calc-math in HS, are competing in national university math contests, have won national writing awards, speak multiple languages, are skilled musicians, or have published something. These are not regular kids, though they are not the types whose parents started non-profits for them.

It's just bizarre to think that this is what should be expected of very smart 17-year-olds to attend a top-tier university. It's more like the Westminster Dog Show than a normal adolescence. While their parents may not have started or run non-profits for them, it strains credulity to think they weren't planning how their kids would be looking Ivy-ready many years in advance.

It's not exactly a secret as to why this is how things are now - Tiger parents from other countries who did what was required in their countries of origins for their kids to have a shot at success. But it's totally changed the game, in ways that may not be good for kids' mental health. And it's why many others "just say no" to the insanity and are happier their kids end up at UMD or VT than Princeton or Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This board is so weird. Yes, of course it's possible. I know of a brown, two Yale, one Columbia just off the top of my head from this year. All normal smart. Public schools. Great kids, great grades, scores, activities. But normal smart.

+1
Stanford, Yale, Cornell, Columbia, Duke from my kid's HS last year

There are “normal” kids who get into these schools every year from mcps. Look on the Instagram pages for each grad class. The unknowns are if they had hooks or legacy or what have you…
OP the only way they definitely won’t get in is if they don’t apply. But yes it is unlikely as it is that way for every applicant.

Alexandria? Or St Albans?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not if he’s white or Asian.

The ivies are OVERRUN with Asians. So the above is patent bullshit, as is this fantasy that Asians are discriminated against in admissions. What a load of horse shit. If anything, there are far too MANY Asians in ivy league schools and schools should strive to reduce their numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wanted my kid to apply for the ROTC scholarships…he didn’t.

I understand a ton of these top-tier, private college counselors are encouraging, wealthy, applicants to apply for ROTC at ivies as a way in. It works.

Ex BF’s sibling attended an Ivy that way. He wanted an Ivy and his parents couldn’t afford it as there were three other kids to send to college. He applied for both the Ivy and ROTC, accepted, etc. Served on a ship in first Gulf War.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing about these high stat kids getting rejected. On social media, I have seen posts about ridiculous students with extremely long crazy impressive extracurriculars.

Can a normal smart kid get into an ivy?

My kid has the scores and grades. He plays 3 sports and is on several academic teams. He is not nationally ranked in anything but good at everything. DH and I both attended T25 colleges and ivy grad schools. Our kid is better than DH and me in every single category.

Receiving an ROTC scholarship can help with admissions into top schools.

Interesting. How and why would that matter ? Several top schools are pretty hostile to the military generally and ROTC in particular (e.g., banned ROTC).

It’s a huge hook. Because Ivy League schools don’t get many ROTC applications but they have the programs and need to fill the slots.

This, plus guaranteed tuition from the government

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not unless they are first gen, rural, a recruitable athlete, URM, or have famous/powerful connections.

Otherwise they go to Big State U with a ton of merit aid and/or the honors college.

I laughed out loud reading this because it is 100% accurate.

I'm biased but my kid graduated with straight As, 33 credits, a 4.6 GPA on a 4.0 scale, 1580 SAT, top 1% of class, multiple published works, an multi-sport athlete, captain of robotics team and savant like skills in his intended major from a full pay family and he goes in only to safeties. White, unhooked male. Everyone knew who my kid was locally- he is genius IQ smart....and at a state flagship honors with merit. LOL. Oh and he went to a seminar on his essay by college AO and they called it "brilliant" so it wasn't a "bad essay". Aside from now seeing the farce this admissions process is (anyone wonder the logic of 60K a year AO's deciding who's worthy or not?) I have learned to accept it is a game you cannot win, you are either "connected" or URM. On the other hand, my kid is surrounded by similar brilliant rejects at his program so what is happening is these kids are not being cancelled, they are establishing new nexuses. Time will tell of the success of the highly coveted school and their filters, I have a hard time believing they are very fine tuned after seeing the test optional, covid-era, dei, legecy preference, bloodbath my kid went through.

The problem is, there are thousands of kids like yours. How are the AO's supposed to distinguish them without flipping a coin? My kid sounds like your kid. absolutely no difference.

OP here. My kid is like pp’s kid. He has perfect grades and test scores. I’m torn how involved DH and I should be getting something on his resume that stands out. We do have the money and resources but it would be all us, not DS. DS is a well rounded kid in all categories. He is not nationally ranked in anything, just usually best at the school or state. I believe this makes him UVA material, not Harvard or Penn. He loves UPenn as does every other kid.

You are the first to acknowledge that it takes the parents to make it happen. All the kids I know who had non profits, businesses, or juggled multiple leadership positions while being a perfect student and artist all had parents doing the work behind the scenes: from writing speeches to finishing art projects, to running the bulk of the non profit. I know parents who set up non profits that served literally not one person. And others who used connections to get awards for their kids. And this is what kills me about where college competition is now. Don’t dismay if your kids ends up in a “third tier” school, odds are they will be sounded by kids with more integrity than at a top 10.

Agree. The top schools are becoming a joke between the unqualified TO students and the wealthy non-profit creators at the other end.

How did you make that leap?

The top schools pick qualified applicants. You're putting too much emphasis on one standardized test. Move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not if he’s white or Asian.

The ivies are OVERRUN with Asians. So the above is patent bullshit, as is this fantasy that Asians are discriminated against in admissions. What a load of horse shit. If anything, there are far too MANY Asians in ivy league schools and schools should strive to reduce their numbers.

I am not Asian, but judging from my kid's high school if unis admitted just on merit, the top schools would be almost all Asian. Asians are overrepresented proportionally and also discriminated against. Next year there will be even more Asian sat the top unis, now that the SC has ruled it illegal to discriminate based on race.