up and coming schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would Jmu, Gmu, or VT be considered up an coming?

JMU and GMU yes.

Are they, though? They both seem kind of plateaued to me. I mean, they're both great options for what they are, but I don't see either currently evolving into a different-level place. Of the three, I'd say VT actually is the most likely "comer."

Agree with PP. JMU peaked in the early-mid 90's (acceptance rate was low 30%) and Tech was considered a safety in-state. The tide has turned and JMU is now considered the safety.

In my view:
VT has clearly been on a traditional rise--riding the popularity of tech majors as well as aligning its admissions practices with USNWR so gaming that a bit too. Not sure it's going to rise any further though so up-and-coming might not be the right title.

GMU is on the rise in more non-traditional ways--highest ROI in multiple majors, growing number of partnerships with companies and govt orgs, R1 status with faculty involved in major projects, achieving equal graduation rates across races and economic levels of students--not trying to be more selective for admissions, not trying to transition to a traditional football/fully residential university (though it has a sizable residential population). I think it's just a different model of a university, but I think it's an up-and-coming kind of model.

JMU seems to be holding steady after dipping a bit. I think there was a perception that it was less tech-oriented, which they have been trying to change. The switch to being a national university rather than a top regional might give them a boost or they may struggle in the wider field. Hard to say at this point. I think it still plays a really important role in the VA public ecosystem, because it's one of the few national universities outside of the very competitive UVA/WM/VT (in multiple majors) that is perceived as a fun traditional residential university where you get a good education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would Jmu, Gmu, or VT be considered up an coming?

JMU and GMU yes.

Are they, though? They both seem kind of plateaued to me. I mean, they're both great options for what they are, but I don't see either currently evolving into a different-level place. Of the three, I'd say VT actually is the most likely "comer."

Agree with PP. JMU peaked in the early-mid 90's (acceptance rate was low 30%) and Tech was considered a safety in-state. The tide has turned and JMU is now considered the safety.

In my view:
VT has clearly been on a traditional rise--riding the popularity of tech majors as well as aligning its admissions practices with USNWR so gaming that a bit too. Not sure it's going to rise any further though so up-and-coming might not be the right title.

GMU is on the rise in more non-traditional ways--highest ROI in multiple majors, growing number of partnerships with companies and govt orgs, R1 status with faculty involved in major projects, achieving equal graduation rates across races and economic levels of students--not trying to be more selective for admissions, not trying to transition to a traditional football/fully residential university (though it has a sizable residential population). I think it's just a different model of a university, but I think it's an up-and-coming kind of model.

JMU seems to be holding steady after dipping a bit. I think there was a perception that it was less tech-oriented, which they have been trying to change. The switch to being a national university rather than a top regional might give them a boost or they may struggle in the wider field. Hard to say at this point. I think it still plays a really important role in the VA public ecosystem, because it's one of the few national universities outside of the very competitive UVA/WM/VT (in multiple majors) that is perceived as a fun traditional residential university where you get a good education.

GMU became a primarily residential college in 2011 when Carnegie changed its classification. https://www.insidenova.com/news/fairfax/changes-at-gmu-lead-to-designation-as-primarily-residential-institution/article_5acea37e-98d7-5091-9796-90f3ac439160.html. My DD lived all four years in the dorms and had a wonderful experience (plus paid internships and hired in her field before graduation)

[Anonymous]

Didn’t go through all 12 pages so not sure if UMBC was mentioned. In fact I know kids who have chosen Towson and UMBC over UMD for various reasons.

[Anonymous]

I do believe GMU is on the rise as well. They are getting some big donors (50 million was the largest and millions from other donors here and there) I think they are doing a lot in many different areas as well as international. I think we are going to see it rise in the ranks.

[Anonymous]

Np
Aren’t there a number of schools between top 15 and Wooster or Lawrence? No experience with them at all just curious.

Okay, looking at LACs currently in the US News range of say 20-50, here are some that seem to be quietly rising even though they're still under the radar for some folks.

Macalester – Its focus on international studies and practical internships mixed with traditional liberal arts is becoming an appealing mix for more students, as well as its location in an actual city. (Occidental is a runner-up with similar qualities.)

Berea – Known for the radical idea of having all students participate in work-study and graduate without debt, its general repuation is steadily rising too, especially in sciences and literature. (Though the Kentucky locale won't appeal to all.)

Skidmore – Historically its strengths have been social sciences, humanities & arts, but in the past 20-ish years it's beefed up its STEM offerings, and has a large new state-of-the-art science building and even more faculty.

Whitman – A Pacific Northwest LAC that'd likely be more highly rated if it were in Connecticut or something, but it's increasingly catching the eyes of kids from the East Coast. (Even if Walla Walla is a journey to get to from other timezones.) Its off-campus "Semester in the West" program is pretty unique and multidisciplinary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not hearing as much about Northeastern this year. Did it peak?

It's a competitive and selective school.
Doesn't belong in the 'up and coming' category.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Flagships in general seem to be doing well with getting more applicants.

Literally EVERY college in America is getting more applicants because of test optional on the SAT. EVERY college. It's not any reflection on the college or what kind of educational experience they are offering.

This is not even remotely true. The top 100 - 150 schools have higher applications and the rest are seeing significant declines. There are 3 MM fewer college students today vs 10 years ago. There are many schools that are 30-40% smaller today…WVU is a relatively local example.

A lot of colleges are receiving more applications--even ones below 150--some are just not getting their enrollment because students apply to so many more schools via the Common App and test optional has increased the range of schools most kids are applying to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Np
Aren’t there a number of schools between top 15 and Wooster or Lawrence? No experience with them at all just curious.

Okay, looking at LACs currently in the US News range of say 20-50, here are some that seem to be quietly rising even though they're still under the radar for some folks.

Macalester – Its focus on international studies and practical internships mixed with traditional liberal arts is becoming an appealing mix for more students, as well as its location in an actual city. (Occidental is a runner-up with similar qualities.)

Berea – Known for the radical idea of having all students participate in work-study and graduate without debt, its general repuation is steadily rising too, especially in sciences and literature. (Though the Kentucky locale won't appeal to all.)

Skidmore – Historically its strengths have been social sciences, humanities & arts, but in the past 20-ish years it's beefed up its STEM offerings, and has a large new state-of-the-art science building and even more faculty.

Whitman – A Pacific Northwest LAC that'd likely be more highly rated if it were in Connecticut or something, but it's increasingly catching the eyes of kids from the East Coast. (Even if Walla Walla is a journey to get to from other timezones.) Its off-campus "Semester in the West" program is pretty unique and multidisciplinary.

The issue with some in the 20-50 class is that they don't offer merit aid to students who don't have that stats that could get them into the T20 and doesn't have as much reputational difference with the tier below it. So anyone who doesn't want to pay full freight (or take on significant loans if they are determined to have financial need) goes down a tier. Since there's not a huge difference in real world reputation and not likely much difference in quality -- Wooster with a total cost of attendance of 35k/yr with merit aid beats Skidmore at 80k (rough numbers here, but that's the metric that strong MC/UMC kids interested in LACs but who can't easily afford them but don't qualify for much aid make). Berea doesn't really fall into that class--it has long served a very different population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Np
Aren’t there a number of schools between top 15 and Wooster or Lawrence? No experience with them at all just curious.

Okay, looking at LACs currently in the US News range of say 20-50, here are some that seem to be quietly rising even though they're still under the radar for some folks.

Macalester – Its focus on international studies and practical internships mixed with traditional liberal arts is becoming an appealing mix for more students, as well as its location in an actual city. (Occidental is a runner-up with similar qualities.)

Berea – Known for the radical idea of having all students participate in work-study and graduate without debt, its general repuation is steadily rising too, especially in sciences and literature. (Though the Kentucky locale won't appeal to all.)

Skidmore – Historically its strengths have been social sciences, humanities & arts, but in the past 20-ish years it's beefed up its STEM offerings, and has a large new state-of-the-art science building and even more faculty.

Whitman – A Pacific Northwest LAC that'd likely be more highly rated if it were in Connecticut or something, but it's increasingly catching the eyes of kids from the East Coast. (Even if Walla Walla is a journey to get to from other timezones.) Its off-campus "Semester in the West" program is pretty unique and multidisciplinary.

The issue with some in the 20-50 class is that they don't offer merit aid to students who don't have that stats that could get them into the T20 and doesn't have as much reputational difference with the tier below it. So anyone who doesn't want to pay full freight (or take on significant loans if they are determined to have financial need) goes down a tier. Since there's not a huge difference in real world reputation and not likely much difference in quality -- Wooster with a total cost of attendance of 35k/yr with merit aid beats Skidmore at 80k (rough numbers here, but that's the metric that strong MC/UMC kids interested in LACs but who can't easily afford them but don't qualify for much aid make). Berea doesn't really fall into that class--it has long served a very different population.

+1 My DD was mainly interested in LACs and we ran into this issue. We weren't willing to pay $70K+ for LACs in that 20-50 range. Some in the 40-50s could get as low as $50k with merit but that was still a stretch. DD visited schools she really liked in the 60-80 range that would cost more like $35k and there just didn't seem to be any real difference in student experience or name recognition for that difference in cost.

[Anonymous]

University of Arkansas - Waltons are pumping in a ton of money into the campus, plus, Texas kids are applying in mass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not hearing as much about Northeastern this year. Did it peak?

It's a competitive and selective school.
Doesn't belong in the 'up and coming' category.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My neighbor is staff at a popular, local, private uni.
They just had a “Come to Jesus” mtg about 20% of student body is failing to thrive. In others words, they can’t hack college. It seems to stem from TO admissions and how not everyone is cut out for college.

I just had this same conversation!
That they need to bring back standardized tests b/c they have found that there is so much grade inflation that students really have not mastered basic aspects of academics for them to be successful in college.

No, they need research and writing skills preliminary courses. Testing doesn't measure that.

So tired of the testing lobby on this board. Test well? Great. Submit that. You do you, but don't try to force everyone else on your narrow track. Testing, while it may give some insight, doesn't measure student potential.

I have a kid with great test scores who failed to thrive in college. I'm tired of "some kids just aren't cut out for college" or TO being offered as the reason college students are struggling. I wish I understood it completely, but some kids just changed during the pandemic. Kids are less connected and more anxious, which makes them less motivated. I don't think this is about test optional or kids not being cut out for college. I wish I knew how to fix the problem.

Both can be true. A lot of kids came out of the COVID “remote learning” experience woefully unprepared academically *and* TO has made it harder to figure out who is ready.

[Anonymous]

Giving this a bump to see if there are new opinions after so many decisions have come out.

[Anonymous]

The southern schools have definitely been on the rise over the past few years. A lot of kids want warm weather schools. Schools with big football have also become popular with a lot of students, especially those from the northern areas.

Schools that are showing up on matriculation lists for well known mid-Atlantic schools that would not have been on the list 5-10 years ago are:

College of Charleston (30% increase in applications this year alone)
Elon
SMU
TCU
Richmond
Santa Clara
Ole Miss
Auburn
University of South Carolina
Clemson (no longer a safety)
Tennessee
LSU
Alabama

[Anonymous]

UC Boulder