up and coming schools

[Anonymous]

I expect that the top SLACs will continue to be more desirable in the mainstream as they get more attention. I personally think college rankings are overrated and overused beyond being a good grouping tool. There is no denying kids and parents care a lot about rankings now and having Amherst and Swarthmore ranked in the top 25 by both the WSJ and Forbes rankings that include universities and LACs helps their visibility (a few other schools are ranked in the top 25 of one or the other of those too). For better or worse, people who may not have seriously considered a SLAC will probably take a second look at them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I expect that the top SLACs will continue to be more desirable in the mainstream as they get more attention. I personally think college rankings are overrated and overused beyond being a good grouping tool. There is no denying kids and parents care a lot about rankings now and having Amherst and Swarthmore ranked in the top 25 by both the WSJ and Forbes rankings that include universities and LACs helps their visibility (a few other schools are ranked in the top 25 of one or the other of those too). For better or worse, people who may not have seriously considered a SLAC will probably take a second look at them.

I think so too. My Class of 2023 kid chose an LAC over several university options (he'd applied all over the place, but narrowed in on LACs at the end), and so did most of his friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Np
Aren’t there a number of schools between top 15 and Wooster or Lawrence? No experience with them at all just curious.

Okay, looking at LACs currently in the US News range of say 20-50, here are some that seem to be quietly rising even though they're still under the radar for some folks.

Macalester – Its focus on international studies and practical internships mixed with traditional liberal arts is becoming an appealing mix for more students, as well as its location in an actual city. (Occidental is a runner-up with similar qualities.)

Berea – Known for the radical idea of having all students participate in work-study and graduate without debt, its general repuation is steadily rising too, especially in sciences and literature. (Though the Kentucky locale won't appeal to all.)

Skidmore – Historically its strengths have been social sciences, humanities & arts, but in the past 20-ish years it's beefed up its STEM offerings, and has a large new state-of-the-art science building and even more faculty.

Whitman – A Pacific Northwest LAC that'd likely be more highly rated if it were in Connecticut or something, but it's increasingly catching the eyes of kids from the East Coast. (Even if Walla Walla is a journey to get to from other timezones.) Its off-campus "Semester in the West" program is pretty unique and multidisciplinary.

The issue with some in the 20-50 class is that they don't offer merit aid to students who don't have that stats that could get them into the T20 and doesn't have as much reputational difference with the tier below it. So anyone who doesn't want to pay full freight (or take on significant loans if they are determined to have financial need) goes down a tier. Since there's not a huge difference in real world reputation and not likely much difference in quality -- Wooster with a total cost of attendance of 35k/yr with merit aid beats Skidmore at 80k (rough numbers here, but that's the metric that strong MC/UMC kids interested in LACs but who can't easily afford them but don't qualify for much aid make). Berea doesn't really fall into that class--it has long served a very different population.

+1 My DD was mainly interested in LACs and we ran into this issue. We weren't willing to pay $70K+ for LACs in that 20-50 range. Some in the 40-50s could get as low as $50k with merit but that was still a stretch. DD visited schools she really liked in the 60-80 range that would cost more like $35k and there just didn't seem to be any real difference in student experience or name recognition for that difference in cost.

Ita. We focused on the 60-100 schools and DC got into all of them with varying merit offers. On paper they all offer the same things more competitive slacs have... for significantly less money. Actually, a few of them seem more innovative and more responsive than the tier above.

I do think the real cost of education is trending down with the loss of cheap credit. If we have a tranched system that's split between colleges that cost 90k and only take very rich and very poor students vs. colleges that cost 30-45k for the rest, I know what side of the divide I want my kid to be on.

(No, not the with oligarchs. I went to school with those people. They're awful.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Np
Aren’t there a number of schools between top 15 and Wooster or Lawrence? No experience with them at all just curious.

Okay, looking at LACs currently in the US News range of say 20-50, here are some that seem to be quietly rising even though they're still under the radar for some folks.

Macalester – Its focus on international studies and practical internships mixed with traditional liberal arts is becoming an appealing mix for more students, as well as its location in an actual city. (Occidental is a runner-up with similar qualities.)

Berea – Known for the radical idea of having all students participate in work-study and graduate without debt, its general repuation is steadily rising too, especially in sciences and literature. (Though the Kentucky locale won't appeal to all.)

Skidmore – Historically its strengths have been social sciences, humanities & arts, but in the past 20-ish years it's beefed up its STEM offerings, and has a large new state-of-the-art science building and even more faculty.

Whitman – A Pacific Northwest LAC that'd likely be more highly rated if it were in Connecticut or something, but it's increasingly catching the eyes of kids from the East Coast. (Even if Walla Walla is a journey to get to from other timezones.) Its off-campus "Semester in the West" program is pretty unique and multidisciplinary.

The issue with some in the 20-50 class is that they don't offer merit aid to students who don't have that stats that could get them into the T20 and doesn't have as much reputational difference with the tier below it. So anyone who doesn't want to pay full freight (or take on significant loans if they are determined to have financial need) goes down a tier. Since there's not a huge difference in real world reputation and not likely much difference in quality -- Wooster with a total cost of attendance of 35k/yr with merit aid beats Skidmore at 80k (rough numbers here, but that's the metric that strong MC/UMC kids interested in LACs but who can't easily afford them but don't qualify for much aid make). Berea doesn't really fall into that class--it has long served a very different population.

+1 My DD was mainly interested in LACs and we ran into this issue. We weren't willing to pay $70K+ for LACs in that 20-50 range. Some in the 40-50s could get as low as $50k with merit but that was still a stretch. DD visited schools she really liked in the 60-80 range that would cost more like $35k and there just didn't seem to be any real difference in student experience or name recognition for that difference in cost.

Ita. We focused on the 60-100 schools and DC got into all of them with varying merit offers. On paper they all offer the same things more competitive slacs have... for significantly less money. Actually, a few of them seem more innovative and more responsive than the tier above.

I do think the real cost of education is trending down with the loss of cheap credit. If we have a tranched system that's split between colleges that cost 90k and only take very rich and very poor students vs. colleges that cost 30-45k for the rest, I know what side of the divide I want my kid to be on.

(No, not the with oligarchs. I went to school with those people. They're awful.)

PP, you and I are kindred spirits. (So much so that I wondered reading your post if I myself had written it!)

Here’s to the 60-100-ish LACs! I love ‘em!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would Jmu, Gmu, or VT be considered up an coming?

JMU and GMU yes.

Are they, though? They both seem kind of plateaued to me. I mean, they're both great options for what they are, but I don't see either currently evolving into a different-level place. Of the three, I'd say VT actually is the most likely "comer."

https://www.jmu.edu/news/2024/01/23-admitted-students.shtml

George Mason seems to be in more conversations lately but I don't have any numbers to back that up.

VT has been popular for a long time but I know there are plans for big future growth there in the next 20 years.

[Anonymous]

Pitt

[Anonymous]

we were impressed with Colorado State

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My neighbor is staff at a popular, local, private uni.
They just had a “Come to Jesus” mtg about 20% of student body is failing to thrive. In others words, they can’t hack college. It seems to stem from TO admissions and how not everyone is cut out for college.

This seems suss. I teach at a uni with students who struggle. The problem is writing skills, not testing. Your post reads like cheap propaganda.

Yep

[Anonymous]

In Virginia, many students are looking seriously at other state schools besides UVA, VT, and W&M since those 3 are so competitive and admissions are unpredictable - even for top students.

JMU, UMW, VCU, CNU, etc. are all getting more attention and they are all good schools. Some offer good merit aid, too. There are no bad options for VA public colleges and universities.

[Anonymous]

Wisconsin

[Anonymous]

Itty bitty classical colleges, mainly Christian, are doing very well. It's one of the few market segments where the number of colleges is growing. Helps that the primary source of students -- homeschooled & classical schooled high school students -- is experiencing double digit growth.

GMU's going to continue to rise. Not just because their administration has been showing itself both competent and interested in rising, but because the Washington DC area itself has grown so much in population, wealth, and status.

I've been hearing good things about CNU and Longwood but that doesn't go have been reflected in FTE, so who knows.

UMD looks very good.

Combo of test optional and the decline of the state's educational system is going to be badly damaging the reputation of California's public colleges, and that the state itself is in serious trouble is going to make matters worse.

[Anonymous]

Minnesota

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Before starting to really learn about colleges as DC started High School I would have expected GMU to be mentioned as up and coming, given it's location and how dynamic some of their departments seem to be. But rarely do you hear anything to suggest that actually being the case. Academically, NOVA has nothing (or am I missing something, satellites don't count IMO).

George Mason has some great academic programs. But it feels like a commuter school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would Jmu, Gmu, or VT be considered up an coming?

JMU and GMU yes.

Are they, though? They both seem kind of plateaued to me. I mean, they're both great options for what they are, but I don't see either currently evolving into a different-level place. Of the three, I'd say VT actually is the most likely "comer."

https://www.jmu.edu/news/2024/01/23-admitted-students.shtml

George Mason seems to be in more conversations lately but I don't have any numbers to back that up.

VT has been popular for a long time but I know there are plans for big future growth there in the next 20 years.

In my opinion, GMU is really far too young to have "plateaued." It's only a little over 50 years old and educates a huge number of students. As its alumni base grows and ages it will actually start having some funds from more donations to invest. It has just started getting a few larger donations and that's likely to start growing more. So considering what it has achieved in a very short time in terms of institutions and with very little money (I believe it has one of the lowest per pupil expenditure in the state despite being in the highest COLA) I expect it will grow more. VT has been around since 1872 and JMU since 1908 and both are in less expensive locations. I think the GMU approach of supporting great outcomes for a wide variety of students--not just becoming more and more selective, is a very important function for society.

[Anonymous]

All of the small engineering schools.