I HATE the suburbs and have a chance to leave. This is long..more experienced parents help?

[Anonymous]

OP have you ever heard the saying, “no matter where you go, there you are.”

My old therapist also used to say this: “there is no geographic solution.” By this, she meant that thinking that a move will give you happiness you can’t find in your present means you aren’t doing the work to be happy with what you have now.

As someone who lived with 2 kids in a 2BR/2BA 1300 square foot apartment in a city when my partner and I both tried to telework, I think you are nuts. We moved as soon as we got the chance after our second was born, because we knew what was best for our kids was giving up our 15 years in the city apartment to invest in our own home, good schools, a yard, a good neighborhood, and a community for them to grow up in.

A few thoughts you probably have not considered:

Have you thought about doing family laundry in a shared laundry room in the basement of your apartment versus in your own SFH when you own your own washer and dryer? You probably forget what college laundry was like or what it was like to fight for a washer or a dryer for hours but trust me, it’s horrible.

How do you feel about lugging groceries? Do you like walking 4-5 blocks, multiple times, carrying bags while your arms burn to the point of giving out to and from your car? With little kids? In the snow and rain? Hopefully there is covered parking but if not, you’re signing up for a real downgrade.

How do you feel about neighbors who are homeowners of townhouses, row houses, and SFHs judging you and thinking you are poor for being a renter? This was a constant issue for us, the people who owned 2m SFHs did not treat us, their renting apartment neighbors (all professionals paying a lot in rent) as their “real” neighbors since we were renters and not homeowners.

How do you feel about neighbors making noise complaints about your kids? How do you feel about landlords sending you emails documenting complaints about kids crying, or you being up late at night? Happened to us multiple times, even when we carpeted the whole unit - most often when we were up with sick kids barfing at 2 am. (Doing puke laundry at 2 am in a shared laundry room in a
Basement without a utility sink is a special treat).

How do you feel about fighting your husband for space when you both have important meetings or calls and don’t want the other person to be heard in the background?

How do you feel about not being able to host guests, since you won’t have space? Our only option was people sleeping in our living room, not exactly like a spare room.

How do you feel about being stuck inside at night? With a yard my partner and I have a fire pit and do fires in our fire pit or fireplace at night. We sit on the porch outside and drink wine. Or on our patio. It’s amazing. In our city apartment the rooftop deck closed at 9 pm and we would get kicked out by the building manager, so were always stuck inside once the kids went down and we could not enjoy any part of the city unless we had a sitter.

How do the kids feel about losing a yard? Having no space to run around inside and play? Having no space for a play room or kid area that is not part of the family living space?

How do you feel about having limited to no storage for all the crap in your 5 BR house? I promise there won’t be room for it all, even if you get a storage locker.

Do you enjoy having bikes stolen? In 15 years in a city I lost 3, all locked, one from
My garden apartment porch on a second floor, twice from a locked bike room in our building.

Do you want to lose your sense of community? In a neighborhood of homeowners there’s a far greater sense of community than in a building of renters where people come and go constantly.

Personally I think you would be nuts to make all these trade offs, but that’s because I think you are only seeing the good parts of city living and ignoring all the bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP have you ever heard the saying, “no matter where you go, there you are.”

My old therapist also used to say this: “there is no geographic solution.” By this, she meant that thinking that a move will give you happiness you can’t find in your present means you aren’t doing the work to be happy with what you have now.

As someone who lived with 2 kids in a 2BR/2BA 1300 square foot apartment in a city when my partner and I both tried to telework, I think you are nuts. We moved as soon as we got the chance after our second was born, because we knew what was best for our kids was giving up our 15 years in the city apartment to invest in our own home, good schools, a yard, a good neighborhood, and a community for them to grow up in.

A few thoughts you probably have not considered:

Have you thought about doing family laundry in a shared laundry room in the basement of your apartment versus in your own SFH when you own your own washer and dryer? You probably forget what college laundry was like or what it was like to fight for a washer or a dryer for hours but trust me, it’s horrible.

How do you feel about lugging groceries? Do you like walking 4-5 blocks, multiple times, carrying bags while your arms burn to the point of giving out to and from your car? With little kids? In the snow and rain? Hopefully there is covered parking but if not, you’re signing up for a real downgrade.

How do you feel about neighbors who are homeowners of townhouses, row houses, and SFHs judging you and thinking you are poor for being a renter? This was a constant issue for us, the people who owned 2m SFHs did not treat us, their renting apartment neighbors (all professionals paying a lot in rent) as their “real” neighbors since we were renters and not homeowners.

How do you feel about neighbors making noise complaints about your kids? How do you feel about landlords sending you emails documenting complaints about kids crying, or you being up late at night? Happened to us multiple times, even when we carpeted the whole unit - most often when we were up with sick kids barfing at 2 am. (Doing puke laundry at 2 am in a shared laundry room in a
Basement without a utility sink is a special treat).

How do you feel about fighting your husband for space when you both have important meetings or calls and don’t want the other person to be heard in the background?

How do you feel about not being able to host guests, since you won’t have space? Our only option was people sleeping in our living room, not exactly like a spare room.

How do you feel about being stuck inside at night? With a yard my partner and I have a fire pit and do fires in our fire pit or fireplace at night. We sit on the porch outside and drink wine. Or on our patio. It’s amazing. In our city apartment the rooftop deck closed at 9 pm and we would get kicked out by the building manager, so were always stuck inside once the kids went down and we could not enjoy any part of the city unless we had a sitter.

How do the kids feel about losing a yard? Having no space to run around inside and play? Having no space for a play room or kid area that is not part of the family living space?

How do you feel about having limited to no storage for all the crap in your 5 BR house? I promise there won’t be room for it all, even if you get a storage locker.

Do you enjoy having bikes stolen? In 15 years in a city I lost 3, all locked, one from
My garden apartment porch on a second floor, twice from a locked bike room in our building.

Do you want to lose your sense of community? In a neighborhood of homeowners there’s a far greater sense of community than in a building of renters where people come and go constantly.

Personally I think you would be nuts to make all these trade offs, but that’s because I think you are only seeing the good parts of city living and ignoring all the bad.

NP who lives in DC. OP should go for it. It’s her last chance for her and her kids to spend time with her elderly grandparents before it’s too late. Family trumps everything especially if OP is close to her grandparents.

As to your points above. We don’t own lots of stuff living in 1400 sq feet rowhouse. Less is better and instead of buying stuff, we prioritize using discretionary funds for traveling.

Laundry is NBD. Run a load downstairs. Who cares?

OP has farmers market nearby and from what it sounds like in her post likely neighborhood markets too. She doesn’t need tons of groceries like you do in the burbs. What she can’t get there, just order delivery. Easy. Walk down the block for pizza night weekly or whatever too. So easy.

OP doesn’t need a yard when there are parks nearby. We have a yard and our kid rarely plays there because we are 3 houses from a park. But being in the city, there is just so much to do especially with young kids that you just are not home as much. Today we went to a fun street festival that was a few blocks long with music, kids corner and entertainment, etc…. Tomorrow we are going to a show. OP gets to expose her 3 and 5 year old to so much art, music, culture and all these experiences in the early years are very enriching socially and for brain development.

This is your chance OP to give your young kids not only limited time left with your grandparents but also all the amazing and enriching opportunities that are available in the city. Your kids are the best age for it too. In DC when my kid was 2-7/8, every weekend there were so many family friendly activities from concerts to art events to story time to festivals, museums, theater, etc…. So many that you had to pick and choose. It’s fabulous. Now that my kid is 9 and is involved in more extracurriculars and activities, we do less of above but still try to take advantage of some of it when we can.

Forget the boring burbs. Your kids will love all the adventures they will have in the city, be so enriched by it, and grow and expand their horizons. Also if you get involved with parent groups in your neighborhood and the city, you will have a huge sense of community and village which you are not finding in your current burbs.

Once your grandparents pass away, you then can decide to stay in the city or move back to another suburbs. This is an exciting chance and opportunity for your family. Grab it and live it and don’t let it pass you by with regrets later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP have you ever heard the saying, “no matter where you go, there you are.”

My old therapist also used to say this: “there is no geographic solution.” By this, she meant that thinking that a move will give you happiness you can’t find in your present means you aren’t doing the work to be happy with what you have now.

As someone who lived with 2 kids in a 2BR/2BA 1300 square foot apartment in a city when my partner and I both tried to telework, I think you are nuts. We moved as soon as we got the chance after our second was born, because we knew what was best for our kids was giving up our 15 years in the city apartment to invest in our own home, good schools, a yard, a good neighborhood, and a community for them to grow up in.

A few thoughts you probably have not considered:

Have you thought about doing family laundry in a shared laundry room in the basement of your apartment versus in your own SFH when you own your own washer and dryer? You probably forget what college laundry was like or what it was like to fight for a washer or a dryer for hours but trust me, it’s horrible.

How do you feel about lugging groceries? Do you like walking 4-5 blocks, multiple times, carrying bags while your arms burn to the point of giving out to and from your car? With little kids? In the snow and rain? Hopefully there is covered parking but if not, you’re signing up for a real downgrade.

How do you feel about neighbors who are homeowners of townhouses, row houses, and SFHs judging you and thinking you are poor for being a renter? This was a constant issue for us, the people who owned 2m SFHs did not treat us, their renting apartment neighbors (all professionals paying a lot in rent) as their “real” neighbors since we were renters and not homeowners.

How do you feel about neighbors making noise complaints about your kids? How do you feel about landlords sending you emails documenting complaints about kids crying, or you being up late at night? Happened to us multiple times, even when we carpeted the whole unit - most often when we were up with sick kids barfing at 2 am. (Doing puke laundry at 2 am in a shared laundry room in a
Basement without a utility sink is a special treat).

How do you feel about fighting your husband for space when you both have important meetings or calls and don’t want the other person to be heard in the background?

How do you feel about not being able to host guests, since you won’t have space? Our only option was people sleeping in our living room, not exactly like a spare room.

How do you feel about being stuck inside at night? With a yard my partner and I have a fire pit and do fires in our fire pit or fireplace at night. We sit on the porch outside and drink wine. Or on our patio. It’s amazing. In our city apartment the rooftop deck closed at 9 pm and we would get kicked out by the building manager, so were always stuck inside once the kids went down and we could not enjoy any part of the city unless we had a sitter.

How do the kids feel about losing a yard? Having no space to run around inside and play? Having no space for a play room or kid area that is not part of the family living space?

How do you feel about having limited to no storage for all the crap in your 5 BR house? I promise there won’t be room for it all, even if you get a storage locker.

Do you enjoy having bikes stolen? In 15 years in a city I lost 3, all locked, one from
My garden apartment porch on a second floor, twice from a locked bike room in our building.

Do you want to lose your sense of community? In a neighborhood of homeowners there’s a far greater sense of community than in a building of renters where people come and go constantly.

Personally I think you would be nuts to make all these trade offs, but that’s because I think you are only seeing the good parts of city living and ignoring all the bad.

Do as I say, not as I do? I seriously don’t get how your/your therapist’s (trite) advice tracks with the rest of your post (which seems to confirm that there absolutely can be a geographic solution as you sound like you were miserable in the city but are now happy in the suburbs).

[Anonymous]

What suburb are you in OP?

Another option is to switch to a less generic suburb. We live in Chicago suburb but our experience has not been like yours, we have almost no chains, lots of mom and pop coffee shops and restaurants, amenities galore, amazing sense of community, beach etc.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think the posters above understand what this 2-flat in Chicago probably is. None of the drawbacks being described are likely to be true. Odds are that it has a yard/s, garage parking, and so no lugging shopping bags. Driving to groceries with attached parking decks is the norm. And it’s a family home, and OP is family, so won’t be viewed as some transient renter. If the building is brick, it probably lends itself to renovation that would make it easily worth $2-3MM, depending on location. Watch a few episodes of Windy City Rehab on HGTV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP have you ever heard the saying, “no matter where you go, there you are.”

My old therapist also used to say this: “there is no geographic solution.” By this, she meant that thinking that a move will give you happiness you can’t find in your present means you aren’t doing the work to be happy with what you have now.

As someone who lived with 2 kids in a 2BR/2BA 1300 square foot apartment in a city when my partner and I both tried to telework, I think you are nuts. We moved as soon as we got the chance after our second was born, because we knew what was best for our kids was giving up our 15 years in the city apartment to invest in our own home, good schools, a yard, a good neighborhood, and a community for them to grow up in.

A few thoughts you probably have not considered:

Have you thought about doing family laundry in a shared laundry room in the basement of your apartment versus in your own SFH when you own your own washer and dryer? You probably forget what college laundry was like or what it was like to fight for a washer or a dryer for hours but trust me, it’s horrible.

How do you feel about lugging groceries? Do you like walking 4-5 blocks, multiple times, carrying bags while your arms burn to the point of giving out to and from your car? With little kids? In the snow and rain? Hopefully there is covered parking but if not, you’re signing up for a real downgrade.

How do you feel about neighbors who are homeowners of townhouses, row houses, and SFHs judging you and thinking you are poor for being a renter? This was a constant issue for us, the people who owned 2m SFHs did not treat us, their renting apartment neighbors (all professionals paying a lot in rent) as their “real” neighbors since we were renters and not homeowners.

How do you feel about neighbors making noise complaints about your kids? How do you feel about landlords sending you emails documenting complaints about kids crying, or you being up late at night? Happened to us multiple times, even when we carpeted the whole unit - most often when we were up with sick kids barfing at 2 am. (Doing puke laundry at 2 am in a shared laundry room in a
Basement without a utility sink is a special treat).

How do you feel about fighting your husband for space when you both have important meetings or calls and don’t want the other person to be heard in the background?

How do you feel about not being able to host guests, since you won’t have space? Our only option was people sleeping in our living room, not exactly like a spare room.

How do you feel about being stuck inside at night? With a yard my partner and I have a fire pit and do fires in our fire pit or fireplace at night. We sit on the porch outside and drink wine. Or on our patio. It’s amazing. In our city apartment the rooftop deck closed at 9 pm and we would get kicked out by the building manager, so were always stuck inside once the kids went down and we could not enjoy any part of the city unless we had a sitter.

How do the kids feel about losing a yard? Having no space to run around inside and play? Having no space for a play room or kid area that is not part of the family living space?

How do you feel about having limited to no storage for all the crap in your 5 BR house? I promise there won’t be room for it all, even if you get a storage locker.

Do you enjoy having bikes stolen? In 15 years in a city I lost 3, all locked, one from
My garden apartment porch on a second floor, twice from a locked bike room in our building.

Do you want to lose your sense of community? In a neighborhood of homeowners there’s a far greater sense of community than in a building of renters where people come and go constantly.

Personally I think you would be nuts to make all these trade offs, but that’s because I think you are only seeing the good parts of city living and ignoring all the bad.

NP who lives in DC. OP should go for it. It’s her last chance for her and her kids to spend time with her elderly grandparents before it’s too late. Family trumps everything especially if OP is close to her grandparents.

As to your points above. We don’t own lots of stuff living in 1400 sq feet rowhouse. Less is better and instead of buying stuff, we prioritize using discretionary funds for traveling.

Laundry is NBD. Run a load downstairs. Who cares?

OP has farmers market nearby and from what it sounds like in her post likely neighborhood markets too. She doesn’t need tons of groceries like you do in the burbs. What she can’t get there, just order delivery. Easy. Walk down the block for pizza night weekly or whatever too. So easy.

OP doesn’t need a yard when there are parks nearby. We have a yard and our kid rarely plays there because we are 3 houses from a park. But being in the city, there is just so much to do especially with young kids that you just are not home as much. Today we went to a fun street festival that was a few blocks long with music, kids corner and entertainment, etc…. Tomorrow we are going to a show. OP gets to expose her 3 and 5 year old to so much art, music, culture and all these experiences in the early years are very enriching socially and for brain development.

This is your chance OP to give your young kids not only limited time left with your grandparents but also all the amazing and enriching opportunities that are available in the city. Your kids are the best age for it too. In DC when my kid was 2-7/8, every weekend there were so many family friendly activities from concerts to art events to story time to festivals, museums, theater, etc…. So many that you had to pick and choose. It’s fabulous. Now that my kid is 9 and is involved in more extracurriculars and activities, we do less of above but still try to take advantage of some of it when we can.

Forget the boring burbs. Your kids will love all the adventures they will have in the city, be so enriched by it, and grow and expand their horizons. Also if you get involved with parent groups in your neighborhood and the city, you will have a huge sense of community and village which you are not finding in your current burbs.

Once your grandparents pass away, you then can decide to stay in the city or move back to another suburbs. This is an exciting chance and opportunity for your family. Grab it and live it and don’t let it pass you by with regrets later.

The problem is that OP has lived in the burbs and has experienced life with a large house, yard and modern conveniences of American suburban life. You haven’t. So you think your 1,400 square foot existence is perfectly fine. You think taking kids to street festivals and “shows” is unique and that you can only expose kids to the arts in a city. You’re clueless.

OP is going to be giving up so much to relocate to a city, and then learn the hard way how much life has changed due to kids. The fact you discount doing laundry for a family in a shared laundry room says everything.

It also sounds like you only have one kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the posters above understand what this 2-flat in Chicago probably is. None of the drawbacks being described are likely to be true. Odds are that it has a yard/s, garage parking, and so no lugging shopping bags. Driving to groceries with attached parking decks is the norm. And it’s a family home, and OP is family, so won’t be viewed as some transient renter. If the building is brick, it probably lends itself to renovation that would make it easily worth $2-3MM, depending on location. Watch a few episodes of Windy City Rehab on HGTV.

But OP wants walkability!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What suburb are you in OP?

Another option is to switch to a less generic suburb. We live in Chicago suburb but our experience has not been like yours, we have almost no chains, lots of mom and pop coffee shops and restaurants, amenities galore, amazing sense of community, beach etc.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the posters above understand what this 2-flat in Chicago probably is. None of the drawbacks being described are likely to be true. Odds are that it has a yard/s, garage parking, and so no lugging shopping bags. Driving to groceries with attached parking decks is the norm. And it’s a family home, and OP is family, so won’t be viewed as some transient renter. If the building is brick, it probably lends itself to renovation that would make it easily worth $2-3MM, depending on location. Watch a few episodes of Windy City Rehab on HGTV.

But OP wants walkability!

She’ll have it in spades! But always with the easy big-shop/bad-weather option of jumping in the car. Neighborhood driving in Chicago is a breeze — this ain’t like trying to drive crosstown in Manhattan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP have you ever heard the saying, “no matter where you go, there you are.”

My old therapist also used to say this: “there is no geographic solution.” By this, she meant that thinking that a move will give you happiness you can’t find in your present means you aren’t doing the work to be happy with what you have now.

As someone who lived with 2 kids in a 2BR/2BA 1300 square foot apartment in a city when my partner and I both tried to telework, I think you are nuts. We moved as soon as we got the chance after our second was born, because we knew what was best for our kids was giving up our 15 years in the city apartment to invest in our own home, good schools, a yard, a good neighborhood, and a community for them to grow up in.

A few thoughts you probably have not considered:

Have you thought about doing family laundry in a shared laundry room in the basement of your apartment versus in your own SFH when you own your own washer and dryer? You probably forget what college laundry was like or what it was like to fight for a washer or a dryer for hours but trust me, it’s horrible.

How do you feel about lugging groceries? Do you like walking 4-5 blocks, multiple times, carrying bags while your arms burn to the point of giving out to and from your car? With little kids? In the snow and rain? Hopefully there is covered parking but if not, you’re signing up for a real downgrade.

How do you feel about neighbors who are homeowners of townhouses, row houses, and SFHs judging you and thinking you are poor for being a renter? This was a constant issue for us, the people who owned 2m SFHs did not treat us, their renting apartment neighbors (all professionals paying a lot in rent) as their “real” neighbors since we were renters and not homeowners.

How do you feel about neighbors making noise complaints about your kids? How do you feel about landlords sending you emails documenting complaints about kids crying, or you being up late at night? Happened to us multiple times, even when we carpeted the whole unit - most often when we were up with sick kids barfing at 2 am. (Doing puke laundry at 2 am in a shared laundry room in a
Basement without a utility sink is a special treat).

How do you feel about fighting your husband for space when you both have important meetings or calls and don’t want the other person to be heard in the background?

How do you feel about not being able to host guests, since you won’t have space? Our only option was people sleeping in our living room, not exactly like a spare room.

How do you feel about being stuck inside at night? With a yard my partner and I have a fire pit and do fires in our fire pit or fireplace at night. We sit on the porch outside and drink wine. Or on our patio. It’s amazing. In our city apartment the rooftop deck closed at 9 pm and we would get kicked out by the building manager, so were always stuck inside once the kids went down and we could not enjoy any part of the city unless we had a sitter.

How do the kids feel about losing a yard? Having no space to run around inside and play? Having no space for a play room or kid area that is not part of the family living space?

How do you feel about having limited to no storage for all the crap in your 5 BR house? I promise there won’t be room for it all, even if you get a storage locker.

Do you enjoy having bikes stolen? In 15 years in a city I lost 3, all locked, one from
My garden apartment porch on a second floor, twice from a locked bike room in our building.

Do you want to lose your sense of community? In a neighborhood of homeowners there’s a far greater sense of community than in a building of renters where people come and go constantly.

Personally I think you would be nuts to make all these trade offs, but that’s because I think you are only seeing the good parts of city living and ignoring all the bad.

NP who lives in DC. OP should go for it. It’s her last chance for her and her kids to spend time with her elderly grandparents before it’s too late. Family trumps everything especially if OP is close to her grandparents.

As to your points above. We don’t own lots of stuff living in 1400 sq feet rowhouse. Less is better and instead of buying stuff, we prioritize using discretionary funds for traveling.

Laundry is NBD. Run a load downstairs. Who cares?

OP has farmers market nearby and from what it sounds like in her post likely neighborhood markets too. She doesn’t need tons of groceries like you do in the burbs. What she can’t get there, just order delivery. Easy. Walk down the block for pizza night weekly or whatever too. So easy.

OP doesn’t need a yard when there are parks nearby. We have a yard and our kid rarely plays there because we are 3 houses from a park. But being in the city, there is just so much to do especially with young kids that you just are not home as much. Today we went to a fun street festival that was a few blocks long with music, kids corner and entertainment, etc…. Tomorrow we are going to a show. OP gets to expose her 3 and 5 year old to so much art, music, culture and all these experiences in the early years are very enriching socially and for brain development.

This is your chance OP to give your young kids not only limited time left with your grandparents but also all the amazing and enriching opportunities that are available in the city. Your kids are the best age for it too. In DC when my kid was 2-7/8, every weekend there were so many family friendly activities from concerts to art events to story time to festivals, museums, theater, etc…. So many that you had to pick and choose. It’s fabulous. Now that my kid is 9 and is involved in more extracurriculars and activities, we do less of above but still try to take advantage of some of it when we can.

Forget the boring burbs. Your kids will love all the adventures they will have in the city, be so enriched by it, and grow and expand their horizons. Also if you get involved with parent groups in your neighborhood and the city, you will have a huge sense of community and village which you are not finding in your current burbs.

Once your grandparents pass away, you then can decide to stay in the city or move back to another suburbs. This is an exciting chance and opportunity for your family. Grab it and live it and don’t let it pass you by with regrets later.

The problem is that OP has lived in the burbs and has experienced life with a large house, yard and modern conveniences of American suburban life. You haven’t. So you think your 1,400 square foot existence is perfectly fine. You think taking kids to street festivals and “shows” is unique and that you can only expose kids to the arts in a city. You’re clueless.

OP is going to be giving up so much to relocate to a city, and then learn the hard way how much life has changed due to kids. The fact you discount doing laundry for a family in a shared laundry room says everything.

It also sounds like you only have one kid.

OP has lived in the very unit that she's considering moving back to.

There are plenty of posters here who have lived in the burbs and articulated why they moved back to the city with kids and are happy. Some of us are ok with the aspects that are harder (shared laundry, walking home with groceries) in exchange for what we perceive to be worthwhile tradeoffs. It's fine if you don't think those tradeoffs are worth it, but plenty of posters here (myself included) have made those tradeoffs and are happy with our decisions! We're not "clueless" about what great suburban living is, but there's still something about cities that are more appealing for raising a family for some people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP have you ever heard the saying, “no matter where you go, there you are.”

My old therapist also used to say this: “there is no geographic solution.” By this, she meant that thinking that a move will give you happiness you can’t find in your present means you aren’t doing the work to be happy with what you have now.

As someone who lived with 2 kids in a 2BR/2BA 1300 square foot apartment in a city when my partner and I both tried to telework, I think you are nuts. We moved as soon as we got the chance after our second was born, because we knew what was best for our kids was giving up our 15 years in the city apartment to invest in our own home, good schools, a yard, a good neighborhood, and a community for them to grow up in.

A few thoughts you probably have not considered:

Have you thought about doing family laundry in a shared laundry room in the basement of your apartment versus in your own SFH when you own your own washer and dryer? You probably forget what college laundry was like or what it was like to fight for a washer or a dryer for hours but trust me, it’s horrible.

How do you feel about lugging groceries? Do you like walking 4-5 blocks, multiple times, carrying bags while your arms burn to the point of giving out to and from your car? With little kids? In the snow and rain? Hopefully there is covered parking but if not, you’re signing up for a real downgrade.

How do you feel about neighbors who are homeowners of townhouses, row houses, and SFHs judging you and thinking you are poor for being a renter? This was a constant issue for us, the people who owned 2m SFHs did not treat us, their renting apartment neighbors (all professionals paying a lot in rent) as their “real” neighbors since we were renters and not homeowners.

How do you feel about neighbors making noise complaints about your kids? How do you feel about landlords sending you emails documenting complaints about kids crying, or you being up late at night? Happened to us multiple times, even when we carpeted the whole unit - most often when we were up with sick kids barfing at 2 am. (Doing puke laundry at 2 am in a shared laundry room in a
Basement without a utility sink is a special treat).

How do you feel about fighting your husband for space when you both have important meetings or calls and don’t want the other person to be heard in the background?

How do you feel about not being able to host guests, since you won’t have space? Our only option was people sleeping in our living room, not exactly like a spare room.

How do you feel about being stuck inside at night? With a yard my partner and I have a fire pit and do fires in our fire pit or fireplace at night. We sit on the porch outside and drink wine. Or on our patio. It’s amazing. In our city apartment the rooftop deck closed at 9 pm and we would get kicked out by the building manager, so were always stuck inside once the kids went down and we could not enjoy any part of the city unless we had a sitter.

How do the kids feel about losing a yard? Having no space to run around inside and play? Having no space for a play room or kid area that is not part of the family living space?

How do you feel about having limited to no storage for all the crap in your 5 BR house? I promise there won’t be room for it all, even if you get a storage locker.

Do you enjoy having bikes stolen? In 15 years in a city I lost 3, all locked, one from
My garden apartment porch on a second floor, twice from a locked bike room in our building.

Do you want to lose your sense of community? In a neighborhood of homeowners there’s a far greater sense of community than in a building of renters where people come and go constantly.

Personally I think you would be nuts to make all these trade offs, but that’s because I think you are only seeing the good parts of city living and ignoring all the bad.

NP who lives in DC. OP should go for it. It’s her last chance for her and her kids to spend time with her elderly grandparents before it’s too late. Family trumps everything especially if OP is close to her grandparents.

As to your points above. We don’t own lots of stuff living in 1400 sq feet rowhouse. Less is better and instead of buying stuff, we prioritize using discretionary funds for traveling.

Laundry is NBD. Run a load downstairs. Who cares?

OP has farmers market nearby and from what it sounds like in her post likely neighborhood markets too. She doesn’t need tons of groceries like you do in the burbs. What she can’t get there, just order delivery. Easy. Walk down the block for pizza night weekly or whatever too. So easy.

OP doesn’t need a yard when there are parks nearby. We have a yard and our kid rarely plays there because we are 3 houses from a park. But being in the city, there is just so much to do especially with young kids that you just are not home as much. Today we went to a fun street festival that was a few blocks long with music, kids corner and entertainment, etc…. Tomorrow we are going to a show. OP gets to expose her 3 and 5 year old to so much art, music, culture and all these experiences in the early years are very enriching socially and for brain development.

This is your chance OP to give your young kids not only limited time left with your grandparents but also all the amazing and enriching opportunities that are available in the city. Your kids are the best age for it too. In DC when my kid was 2-7/8, every weekend there were so many family friendly activities from concerts to art events to story time to festivals, museums, theater, etc…. So many that you had to pick and choose. It’s fabulous. Now that my kid is 9 and is involved in more extracurriculars and activities, we do less of above but still try to take advantage of some of it when we can.

Forget the boring burbs. Your kids will love all the adventures they will have in the city, be so enriched by it, and grow and expand their horizons. Also if you get involved with parent groups in your neighborhood and the city, you will have a huge sense of community and village which you are not finding in your current burbs.

Once your grandparents pass away, you then can decide to stay in the city or move back to another suburbs. This is an exciting chance and opportunity for your family. Grab it and live it and don’t let it pass you by with regrets later.

The problem is that OP has lived in the burbs and has experienced life with a large house, yard and modern conveniences of American suburban life. You haven’t. So you think your 1,400 square foot existence is perfectly fine. You think taking kids to street festivals and “shows” is unique and that you can only expose kids to the arts in a city. You’re clueless.

OP is going to be giving up so much to relocate to a city, and then learn the hard way how much life has changed due to kids. The fact you discount doing laundry for a family in a shared laundry room says everything.

It also sounds like you only have one kid.

OP has lived in the very unit that she's considering moving back to.

There are plenty of posters here who have lived in the burbs and articulated why they moved back to the city with kids and are happy. Some of us are ok with the aspects that are harder (shared laundry, walking home with groceries) in exchange for what we perceive to be worthwhile tradeoffs. It's fine if you don't think those tradeoffs are worth it, but plenty of posters here (myself included) have made those tradeoffs and are happy with our decisions! We're not "clueless" about what great suburban living is, but there's still something about cities that are more appealing for raising a family for some people.

You’re clueless if you’ve never lived in the burbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP have you ever heard the saying, “no matter where you go, there you are.”

My old therapist also used to say this: “there is no geographic solution.” By this, she meant that thinking that a move will give you happiness you can’t find in your present means you aren’t doing the work to be happy with what you have now.

As someone who lived with 2 kids in a 2BR/2BA 1300 square foot apartment in a city when my partner and I both tried to telework, I think you are nuts. We moved as soon as we got the chance after our second was born, because we knew what was best for our kids was giving up our 15 years in the city apartment to invest in our own home, good schools, a yard, a good neighborhood, and a community for them to grow up in.

A few thoughts you probably have not considered:

Have you thought about doing family laundry in a shared laundry room in the basement of your apartment versus in your own SFH when you own your own washer and dryer? You probably forget what college laundry was like or what it was like to fight for a washer or a dryer for hours but trust me, it’s horrible.

How do you feel about lugging groceries? Do you like walking 4-5 blocks, multiple times, carrying bags while your arms burn to the point of giving out to and from your car? With little kids? In the snow and rain? Hopefully there is covered parking but if not, you’re signing up for a real downgrade.

How do you feel about neighbors who are homeowners of townhouses, row houses, and SFHs judging you and thinking you are poor for being a renter? This was a constant issue for us, the people who owned 2m SFHs did not treat us, their renting apartment neighbors (all professionals paying a lot in rent) as their “real” neighbors since we were renters and not homeowners.

How do you feel about neighbors making noise complaints about your kids? How do you feel about landlords sending you emails documenting complaints about kids crying, or you being up late at night? Happened to us multiple times, even when we carpeted the whole unit - most often when we were up with sick kids barfing at 2 am. (Doing puke laundry at 2 am in a shared laundry room in a
Basement without a utility sink is a special treat).

How do you feel about fighting your husband for space when you both have important meetings or calls and don’t want the other person to be heard in the background?

How do you feel about not being able to host guests, since you won’t have space? Our only option was people sleeping in our living room, not exactly like a spare room.

How do you feel about being stuck inside at night? With a yard my partner and I have a fire pit and do fires in our fire pit or fireplace at night. We sit on the porch outside and drink wine. Or on our patio. It’s amazing. In our city apartment the rooftop deck closed at 9 pm and we would get kicked out by the building manager, so were always stuck inside once the kids went down and we could not enjoy any part of the city unless we had a sitter.

How do the kids feel about losing a yard? Having no space to run around inside and play? Having no space for a play room or kid area that is not part of the family living space?

How do you feel about having limited to no storage for all the crap in your 5 BR house? I promise there won’t be room for it all, even if you get a storage locker.

Do you enjoy having bikes stolen? In 15 years in a city I lost 3, all locked, one from
My garden apartment porch on a second floor, twice from a locked bike room in our building.

Do you want to lose your sense of community? In a neighborhood of homeowners there’s a far greater sense of community than in a building of renters where people come and go constantly.

Personally I think you would be nuts to make all these trade offs, but that’s because I think you are only seeing the good parts of city living and ignoring all the bad.

NP who lives in DC. OP should go for it. It’s her last chance for her and her kids to spend time with her elderly grandparents before it’s too late. Family trumps everything especially if OP is close to her grandparents.

As to your points above. We don’t own lots of stuff living in 1400 sq feet rowhouse. Less is better and instead of buying stuff, we prioritize using discretionary funds for traveling.

Laundry is NBD. Run a load downstairs. Who cares?

OP has farmers market nearby and from what it sounds like in her post likely neighborhood markets too. She doesn’t need tons of groceries like you do in the burbs. What she can’t get there, just order delivery. Easy. Walk down the block for pizza night weekly or whatever too. So easy.

OP doesn’t need a yard when there are parks nearby. We have a yard and our kid rarely plays there because we are 3 houses from a park. But being in the city, there is just so much to do especially with young kids that you just are not home as much. Today we went to a fun street festival that was a few blocks long with music, kids corner and entertainment, etc…. Tomorrow we are going to a show. OP gets to expose her 3 and 5 year old to so much art, music, culture and all these experiences in the early years are very enriching socially and for brain development.

This is your chance OP to give your young kids not only limited time left with your grandparents but also all the amazing and enriching opportunities that are available in the city. Your kids are the best age for it too. In DC when my kid was 2-7/8, every weekend there were so many family friendly activities from concerts to art events to story time to festivals, museums, theater, etc…. So many that you had to pick and choose. It’s fabulous. Now that my kid is 9 and is involved in more extracurriculars and activities, we do less of above but still try to take advantage of some of it when we can.

Forget the boring burbs. Your kids will love all the adventures they will have in the city, be so enriched by it, and grow and expand their horizons. Also if you get involved with parent groups in your neighborhood and the city, you will have a huge sense of community and village which you are not finding in your current burbs.

Once your grandparents pass away, you then can decide to stay in the city or move back to another suburbs. This is an exciting chance and opportunity for your family. Grab it and live it and don’t let it pass you by with regrets later.

The problem is that OP has lived in the burbs and has experienced life with a large house, yard and modern conveniences of American suburban life. You haven’t. So you think your 1,400 square foot existence is perfectly fine. You think taking kids to street festivals and “shows” is unique and that you can only expose kids to the arts in a city. You’re clueless.

OP is going to be giving up so much to relocate to a city, and then learn the hard way how much life has changed due to kids. The fact you discount doing laundry for a family in a shared laundry room says everything.

It also sounds like you only have one kid.

OP has lived in the very unit that she's considering moving back to.

There are plenty of posters here who have lived in the burbs and articulated why they moved back to the city with kids and are happy. Some of us are ok with the aspects that are harder (shared laundry, walking home with groceries) in exchange for what we perceive to be worthwhile tradeoffs. It's fine if you don't think those tradeoffs are worth it, but plenty of posters here (myself included) have made those tradeoffs and are happy with our decisions! We're not "clueless" about what great suburban living is, but there's still something about cities that are more appealing for raising a family for some people.

You’re clueless if you’ve never lived in the burbs.

Right. But I have. And I know several other families that left the city and returned. It's not the common flow, but it's not totally unheard of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP have you ever heard the saying, “no matter where you go, there you are.”

My old therapist also used to say this: “there is no geographic solution.” By this, she meant that thinking that a move will give you happiness you can’t find in your present means you aren’t doing the work to be happy with what you have now.

As someone who lived with 2 kids in a 2BR/2BA 1300 square foot apartment in a city when my partner and I both tried to telework, I think you are nuts. We moved as soon as we got the chance after our second was born, because we knew what was best for our kids was giving up our 15 years in the city apartment to invest in our own home, good schools, a yard, a good neighborhood, and a community for them to grow up in.

A few thoughts you probably have not considered:

Have you thought about doing family laundry in a shared laundry room in the basement of your apartment versus in your own SFH when you own your own washer and dryer? You probably forget what college laundry was like or what it was like to fight for a washer or a dryer for hours but trust me, it’s horrible.

How do you feel about lugging groceries? Do you like walking 4-5 blocks, multiple times, carrying bags while your arms burn to the point of giving out to and from your car? With little kids? In the snow and rain? Hopefully there is covered parking but if not, you’re signing up for a real downgrade.

How do you feel about neighbors who are homeowners of townhouses, row houses, and SFHs judging you and thinking you are poor for being a renter? This was a constant issue for us, the people who owned 2m SFHs did not treat us, their renting apartment neighbors (all professionals paying a lot in rent) as their “real” neighbors since we were renters and not homeowners.

How do you feel about neighbors making noise complaints about your kids? How do you feel about landlords sending you emails documenting complaints about kids crying, or you being up late at night? Happened to us multiple times, even when we carpeted the whole unit - most often when we were up with sick kids barfing at 2 am. (Doing puke laundry at 2 am in a shared laundry room in a
Basement without a utility sink is a special treat).

How do you feel about fighting your husband for space when you both have important meetings or calls and don’t want the other person to be heard in the background?

How do you feel about not being able to host guests, since you won’t have space? Our only option was people sleeping in our living room, not exactly like a spare room.

How do you feel about being stuck inside at night? With a yard my partner and I have a fire pit and do fires in our fire pit or fireplace at night. We sit on the porch outside and drink wine. Or on our patio. It’s amazing. In our city apartment the rooftop deck closed at 9 pm and we would get kicked out by the building manager, so were always stuck inside once the kids went down and we could not enjoy any part of the city unless we had a sitter.

How do the kids feel about losing a yard? Having no space to run around inside and play? Having no space for a play room or kid area that is not part of the family living space?

How do you feel about having limited to no storage for all the crap in your 5 BR house? I promise there won’t be room for it all, even if you get a storage locker.

Do you enjoy having bikes stolen? In 15 years in a city I lost 3, all locked, one from
My garden apartment porch on a second floor, twice from a locked bike room in our building.

Do you want to lose your sense of community? In a neighborhood of homeowners there’s a far greater sense of community than in a building of renters where people come and go constantly.

Personally I think you would be nuts to make all these trade offs, but that’s because I think you are only seeing the good parts of city living and ignoring all the bad.

Sometimes it really is the place. We moved in our neighborhood from a small, crummy house that needed constant maintenance and had frequent basement flooding, to a slightly larger house of the same vintage that needs less maintenance and doesn't flood. We are so, so, so much happier. So much less stress. Better layout. Everyone much happier.

If OP is truly miserable, and she sounds like she is, she might as well go for it. It's not just the physical space, it's the whole neighborhood and way of living. I am sure in the new city, if the space is too small or she uses city amenities less as kids get older, she can do the suburban thing again in the future - near the new city. And she'll have the satisfaction of having given it a go.

[Anonymous]

I'm from the Chicago burbs. I think your problem is you live in Mt. Prospect. That's as boring as it gets. It's very vanilla, very suburban. Why don't you look into closer in burbs like Oak Park, Evanston or even Park Ridge. It would solve a lot of what you're complaining about. Much nicer restaurants and shops and it's easy to get to the city for cultural stuff. There's no way I'd sign up for dealing with CPS and the teacher's union nightmare with two small kids. It's just more stressful than it's worth when you have other options available to you.

[Anonymous]

GO 100000x!

I am from Chicago and I hate DC the way you hate your hood LOL. I can't uproot my kids as they are in MS and have set activities they love. I also wouldn't know where to go but if I had your option I would run.

There's absolutely no reason to hang where you hate esp as your kids are so young. If you stay you will hate your life like me on most days!

It's a no brainer to go. I would prob move back to Chicago the city if I could but as the market is, even if it was doable with school, it doesn't make sense to move.

There's something to be said about city life and I as well am a city girl. Either you love it or hate it but if you live it it's so hard to not have that no matter how old your kids are.