Replicating ATS success — what are exact differences

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:One big difference is parents who are involved and motivated enough to seek a slot at ATS. Your principal can’t do anything about that one.

Sure but that can’t be only factor?

It’s the largest contributing factor. Like 90% of the pie.

OK. Clearly the ATS parents want the credit for their kids' and their school's success. So, yes, absolutely, it is entirely due to the parents who put in for the lottery and accept the slots. Entirely. Not 90%. Because without these specific fabulous parents being involved, the administration might implement instructional changes that they make the other neighborhood schools do. So, KUDOS to you parents!!!

Are you reading the same thread? ATS parents are saying other schools could do more of what ATS is doing. Parental involvement matters but parents are choosing ATS because what they are doing works. ATS deserves the credit and I don't blame parents for lining up to go to ATS. PP is right that parents put in what the school expects of them. It harder than ever in APS to know how your kid is doing. Schoolwork rarely sent home, homework packets depend on the school, grading is usually a cut and paste affair and you're not sure if the comments about "johnny" apply to your "Jenny". At least APS is finally figuring out how to teach kids to read but ATS was doing that for decades.

They claim ATS' success is 90% due to the self-selection by parents. That makes the parents responsible for the success.
I fully agree that APS should be making all of our ES more like ATS. But I'm tired of people crediting the bulk of its success on parents' selection. ATS works well for most students. Period. Not because their parents chose the program.

Does ATS have kids with a lot of unexcused absences?

Does ATS have parents who don’t EVER show up to parent-teacher conferences?

When a child is combative at ATS, what happens when that child’s parents shrug their shoulders?

What happens at any APS school when a child is combative and parents shrug their shoulders?

It’s pretty obvious what happens. They keep harassing the parents and then they decide to switch to neighborhood school, who may or may not harass them because they likely have bigger fish to fry, and at that point they can’t switch. If you get the rare shoulder shrug parent who a) registered at right time for lottery and then b) jumped on the ticking time bomb e-mail to accept option placement and then c) decided to wash their hands of parenting, they still have this get out jail card to reset if their kid isn’t doing well and a principal keeps calling.

This is my point. ATS doesn’t have shoulder shrugging parents, but a lot of neighborhood schools do. And it doesn’t take many to drag down the entire class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One big difference is parents who are involved and motivated enough to seek a slot at ATS. Your principal can’t do anything about that one.

Sure but that can’t be only factor?

It’s the largest contributing factor. Like 90% of the pie.

OK. Clearly the ATS parents want the credit for their kids' and their school's success. So, yes, absolutely, it is entirely due to the parents who put in for the lottery and accept the slots. Entirely. Not 90%. Because without these specific fabulous parents being involved, the administration might implement instructional changes that they make the other neighborhood schools do. So, KUDOS to you parents!!!

Are you reading the same thread? ATS parents are saying other schools could do more of what ATS is doing. Parental involvement matters but parents are choosing ATS because what they are doing works. ATS deserves the credit and I don't blame parents for lining up to go to ATS. PP is right that parents put in what the school expects of them. It harder than ever in APS to know how your kid is doing. Schoolwork rarely sent home, homework packets depend on the school, grading is usually a cut and paste affair and you're not sure if the comments about "johnny" apply to your "Jenny". At least APS is finally figuring out how to teach kids to read but ATS was doing that for decades.

They claim ATS' success is 90% due to the self-selection by parents. That makes the parents responsible for the success.
I fully agree that APS should be making all of our ES more like ATS. But I'm tired of people crediting the bulk of its success on parents' selection. ATS works well for most students. Period. Not because their parents chose the program.

Does ATS have kids with a lot of unexcused absences?

Does ATS have parents who don’t EVER show up to parent-teacher conferences?

When a child is combative at ATS, what happens when that child’s parents shrug their shoulders?

What happens at any APS school when a child is combative and parents shrug their shoulders?

It’s pretty obvious what happens. They keep harassing the parents and then they decide to switch to neighborhood school, who may or may not harass them because they likely have bigger fish to fry, and at that point they can’t switch. If you get the rare shoulder shrug parent who a) registered at right time for lottery and then b) jumped on the ticking time bomb e-mail to accept option placement and then c) decided to wash their hands of parenting, they still have this get out jail card to reset if their kid isn’t doing well and a principal keeps calling.

This is my point. ATS doesn’t have shoulder shrugging parents, but a lot of neighborhood schools do. And it doesn’t take many to drag down the entire class.

You're basing this assertion on what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One big difference is parents who are involved and motivated enough to seek a slot at ATS. Your principal can’t do anything about that one.

There are plenty of people trying to get in, there are not enough slots. We shouldn't have to be motivated to enter the lottery, this is how all the elementary schools should be ran.

What about those of us who are happy at our school, don’t agree with how ATS is run or don’t think it’s a good fit for our kid? I don’t want my Arlington elementary school to become ATS!

We have older elementary neighbors and friends whose kids go to APS, so I am not just basing my opinion off of DCUM threads and website copy.

Genuinely curious:
What would you have done if all APS schools were "run like ATS?"
What specifically do you not like about how ATS is run?

Not the poster you're asking, but our kids attended a school where the principal was a "principles not rules" type, and one kid had a teacher who would have loved being at ATS. And I responded with polite, cheerful noncompliance. Which was OK with the principal.

You can't make parents back you up on homework every night in every grade or tucking in shirts or playing an instrument. All my kids were reading by the end of K, but I would not have agreed with holding any of them back for lack of "academic achievement" in K

What was the teacher asking them/you to do that made you respond with cheerful noncompliance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is enrolled in any Arlington County elementary school and you are on this thread, your kid is going to be just fine. End of story.

Oh.. honey, you're even naive or dismissive. So many kids are so not fine. You don't know what you don't know.

Try getting out of your privileged little bubble.

[Anonymous]

Not sure if this is current since principal has switched by friend with kid at ATS reported they didn't allow little kids to have snacks. That would not have worked for my kids, and I never say the rationale for letting littles go hungry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if this is current since principal has switched by friend with kid at ATS reported they didn't allow little kids to have snacks. That would not have worked for my kids, and I never say the rationale for letting littles go hungry.

Both my littles are at ATS one is in 5th and one in 1st and both have a snack time in class and have each year. You have to provide the snack in their backpack but all their teachers give the opportunity to the class if they want to have a snack break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if this is current since principal has switched by friend with kid at ATS reported they didn't allow little kids to have snacks. That would not have worked for my kids, and I never say the rationale for letting littles go hungry.

Many APS schools don’t have snack except for the youngest kids and/or sometimes if you have the earliest or latest lunch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One big difference is parents who are involved and motivated enough to seek a slot at ATS. Your principal can’t do anything about that one.

There are plenty of people trying to get in, there are not enough slots. We shouldn't have to be motivated to enter the lottery, this is how all the elementary schools should be ran.

What about those of us who are happy at our school, don’t agree with how ATS is run or don’t think it’s a good fit for our kid? I don’t want my Arlington elementary school to become ATS!

We have older elementary neighbors and friends whose kids go to APS, so I am not just basing my opinion off of DCUM threads and website copy.

Genuinely curious:
What would you have done if all APS schools were "run like ATS?"
What specifically do you not like about how ATS is run?

Not the poster you're asking, but our kids attended a school where the principal was a "principles not rules" type, and one kid had a teacher who would have loved being at ATS. And I responded with polite, cheerful noncompliance. Which was OK with the principal.

You can't make parents back you up on homework every night in every grade or tucking in shirts or playing an instrument. All my kids were reading by the end of K, but I would not have agreed with holding any of them back for lack of "academic achievement" in K

What was the teacher asking them/you to do that made you respond with cheerful noncompliance?

Does it matter? Kid was well-behaved in class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if this is current since principal has switched by friend with kid at ATS reported they didn't allow little kids to have snacks. That would not have worked for my kids, and I never say the rationale for letting littles go hungry.

Both my littles are at ATS one is in 5th and one in 1st and both have a snack time in class and have each year. You have to provide the snack in their backpack but all their teachers give the opportunity to the class if they want to have a snack break.

Glad that changed because that was just so strangely rigid and not in line with little kids' needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if this is current since principal has switched by friend with kid at ATS reported they didn't allow little kids to have snacks. That would not have worked for my kids, and I never say the rationale for letting littles go hungry.

Many APS schools don’t have snack except for the youngest kids and/or sometimes if you have the earliest or latest lunch.

Really? Which APS schools don't allow snacks? That seems misguided.

My kids' APS elem allowed snack all the way through 5th grade. The older kids were the ones who usually were given the really late lunchtime so they needed that snack. The littles needed that snack just because.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Our neighbors left ATS because they said it was not a good school for their kid who had special needs.

Neighborhood schools ( not all, but many) do a better job with that.

Right. Because ATS is a choice school.

Because it's a self selecting group, that's about 75% of the success right there.

More than 75% I think. Probably 90%. There are some things that can be replicated, but you aren’t going to be able to fix the main ingredient for ATS’s success in narrowing the achievement gap.

If self-selection is the achievement gap fixer, why don't the other choice programs have the same effect?

Yes, and not just other choice programs. The highly educated wealthy parents self selected, too, by buying into the elementary schools in northernmost Arlington.

Yet, I believe all those schools do have an achievement gap for their very few kids who do not fall into the well resourced parent category. There are also gaps for SN kids when I last checked, and ethnic ones as well.
They should have zero problems closing their gaps for those few students, why don't they or can't they?

Just because you’re wealthy doesn’t mean you’re involved. The number of parents in NA schools who didn’t know their child was struggling with reading or math till the later grades is shocking. Like HOW DIDN’T YOU KNOW?

You don’t need a teacher’s written report to know if your child is struggling. Do you not read with your child at home? Or talk about math concepts?

We were one of those families. We thought something was wrong. But we were told to wait and see, then everyone was behind because of the pandemic, then she was making progress. We asked but couldn’t get summer school. Finally got a private diagnosis and tutor. That’s HOW WE DIDN’T KNOW . We trusted APS to do its job and they didn’t.

Sorry for you but we had opposite experience. In the midst of pandemic, at its worst with school at home, our APS teachers and support identified our child's reading issues and pushed for gEtting support. We'd have waited it out on own because we have another children who is GT and read really early - so we just thought other child was average. But thanks to APS we caught it super early. Cool story, I know, and true.

[Anonymous]

I think that ATS has some good things going for it. But a HUGE part of their success is that it’s a self selecting group that starts in K and stays through 5th.


Neighborhood schools have way more transient students that move around often. So you have kids (and often it’s low income kids) who are at their 3rd school in two years.

Also in neighborhood schools class sizes fluctuate and because of that staffing fluctuates. (A lot more teacher turn over and teacher teaching different grades).


These are things you just can’t replicate in a neighborhood school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if this is current since principal has switched by friend with kid at ATS reported they didn't allow little kids to have snacks. That would not have worked for my kids, and I never say the rationale for letting littles go hungry.

Both my littles are at ATS one is in 5th and one in 1st and both have a snack time in class and have each year. You have to provide the snack in their backpack but all their teachers give the opportunity to the class if they want to have a snack break.

Glad that changed because that was just so strangely rigid and not in line with little kids' needs.

Agreed! That is crazy especially for kids with a 10am lunch. Sorry it wasn’t that way for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighbors left ATS because they said it was not a good school for their kid who had special needs.

Neighborhood schools ( not all, but many) do a better job with that.

Right. Because ATS is a choice school.

Because it's a self selecting group, that's about 75% of the success right there.

More than 75% I think. Probably 90%. There are some things that can be replicated, but you aren’t going to be able to fix the main ingredient for ATS’s success in narrowing the achievement gap.

If self-selection is the achievement gap fixer, why don't the other choice programs have the same effect?

Yes, and not just other choice programs. The highly educated wealthy parents self selected, too, by buying into the elementary schools in northernmost Arlington.

Yet, I believe all those schools do have an achievement gap for their very few kids who do not fall into the well resourced parent category. There are also gaps for SN kids when I last checked, and ethnic ones as well.
They should have zero problems closing their gaps for those few students, why don't they or can't they?

Just because you’re wealthy doesn’t mean you’re involved. The number of parents in NA schools who didn’t know their child was struggling with reading or math till the later grades is shocking. Like HOW DIDN’T YOU KNOW?

You don’t need a teacher’s written report to know if your child is struggling. Do you not read with your child at home? Or talk about math concepts?

We were one of those families. We thought something was wrong. But we were told to wait and see, then everyone was behind because of the pandemic, then she was making progress. We asked but couldn’t get summer school. Finally got a private diagnosis and tutor. That’s HOW WE DIDN’T KNOW . We trusted APS to do its job and they didn’t.

Sorry for you but we had opposite experience. In the midst of pandemic, at its worst with school at home, our APS teachers and support identified our child's reading issues and pushed for gEtting support. We'd have waited it out on own because we have another children who is GT and read really early - so we just thought other child was average. But thanks to APS we caught it super early. Cool story, I know, and true.

What school were you at when this happened? We had a similar experience as the previous poster. We’re still paying for tutoring trying to catch up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One big difference is parents who are involved and motivated enough to seek a slot at ATS. Your principal can’t do anything about that one.

There are plenty of people trying to get in, there are not enough slots. We shouldn't have to be motivated to enter the lottery, this is how all the elementary schools should be ran.

What about those of us who are happy at our school, don’t agree with how ATS is run or don’t think it’s a good fit for our kid? I don’t want my Arlington elementary school to become ATS!

We have older elementary neighbors and friends whose kids go to APS, so I am not just basing my opinion off of DCUM threads and website copy.

Genuinely curious:
What would you have done if all APS schools were "run like ATS?"
What specifically do you not like about how ATS is run?

Not the poster you're asking, but our kids attended a school where the principal was a "principles not rules" type, and one kid had a teacher who would have loved being at ATS. And I responded with polite, cheerful noncompliance. Which was OK with the principal.

You can't make parents back you up on homework every night in every grade or tucking in shirts or playing an instrument. All my kids were reading by the end of K, but I would not have agreed with holding any of them back for lack of "academic achievement" in K

What was the teacher asking them/you to do that made you respond with cheerful noncompliance?

Does it matter? Kid was well-behaved in class

Yes, it does matter.