General admission bias in favor of male applicants

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing is though that high school and middle school favors girls because they go through puberty earlier and that leads to changes in the brain that are advantageous for doing well in school. Boys do catch up eventually, but the current system does make them look like weaker college applicants (esp now that it is so competitive to get into top colleges).

I’m not disagreeing, but when I was in high school boys were just as competitive academically as the girls. There was not this gender imbalance in the classroom. Boys today are particularly disengaged from academics - so I do believe something additional is going on. Chalking it up to simple brain maturity means you’re leaving other explanations on the table.

As school in general has become more drill and kill with lots of worksheets and less fun and creative work and more teaching to the test, it favors girls and boys disengage. As my 7th grade son said in reference to a friend of his who is very smart but constantly forgets to bring the correct materials to class or finish his homework "there are lots of smart boys, but the smart girls are better at school." Their school doesn't allow kids to carry their backpacks around and they only have a couple times a day to go to their lockers, so even that requires a level of organization I didn't have to have in middle school.

My experience has been completely different— teaching methods used to be more “kill & drill” when we were young. Most schools have moved toward project-based assignments, collaboration, and application of knowledge instead of memorization/drills. Teachers are also more accommodating now! Many allow kids to talk quietly, listen to music on headphones, and have a higher tolerance for noise & movement.

So, again, something else is going on. I’m not sure why boys are faltering, but I think it can be fixed.

+1 Schools are bending over backwards to accommodate boys.

How exactly is that happening? I'm not seeing it. Schools are bending over backwards to make learning and especially reading hateful to boys.

How is reading hateful to boys? Didn't they used to teach boys to read but not girls? Aren't most classical authors men? There is no reason boys can't read at the same level as girls. You have to be able to sit and concentrate in order to read. Boys need to learn how to do that.

You obviously don't have a son. If you did, you would know there are books that boys actively like to read - they will do so voluntarily - and books that boys actively hate to read. Women English teachers (a redundant formulation, I know) are seemingly only capable of assigning the latter as class reading. I suspect it's because they are only assigning books they like without any thought for what boys like. Last year DS said his teacher told the class they could choose from among five books to write a report on - she said "you will really like these books!" - and every single one of them was a book designed to appeal only to girls. Talk about completely oblivious.

PP. I don't have a son your age. From my experiences 20 years ago it was the complete opposite. All of the books were about nature, seafaring, war and other masculine stuff. Most assigned reading bored me to tears but I still had good grades. It was great to read anything a bit modern like 1984, which was still male oriented but at least had psychological themes. I can hardly remember a time that we read anything that would tend to appeal to girls other than some scenes Romeo & Juliet. And it was for precisely the reason you stated: boys will only voluntarily read boy stuff but girls will tolerate boy stuff, so we, girls, had to read stuff like Call of the Wild. However, we survived and did our assignments.

That was back when boys were doing roughly as well as girls in school. Sure that's making the point you think it is? Sounds like we need to go back to that era to me.

If the boys can't adjust to even reading something that's not their favorite type of book, why should they be doing as well in school? What if they decide history, science, and math are boring too? Do they just get to play action figures then?

There is something more deeply flawed on a national basis these days.

Given his druthers my kid would play sports and video games all day and only pick up a book to raise the height of his monitor.

Yet, he is able to pay attention in school, gets straight As with many AP classes and find himself a decent Summer job. He and his friends’ parents set high expectations for their sons.

My guess is that again they live in an UMC two parent household (public school) with parents in professional jobs. They don’t hear many stories of kids borrowing lots of $$$s to go to just random State U…possibly/probably drop out…underemployed after college etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women control k-12 education and now college. They design the experience and set the expectations. When girls do relatively worse on standardized tests, they de-emphasize standardized tests. Everything about education these days is hostile to masculine energy which is of course considered toxic. Look at the books your son has to read in English class. The college application process itself favors girls- cultivating relationships with teachers for recommendations where they divulge all their feelings and dreams, getting involved in all these silly organizations. The system is dominated by women and rigged against boys.

Leadership positions at both k-12 and college level are overwhelmingly male.

"Leadership" at K-12 doesn't even matter. If your kid's school has a male principal, your kid will never even see him. The teachers your kids interact with all day every day are overwhelmingly female. In short, as the PP said, women control K-12 education where it matters - at the pit face - they control the experience from end to end. That female teachers have failed boys is certainly a plausible argument based on the outcome.

My son has done great in public school with almost entirely female teachers. No one’s failed him. Expectations for behavior and academic performance begin at home. So many parents letting their boys play video games and watch YouTube for hours and hours every day and then complaining that the school system is rigged against them. Pathetic.

Your education has failed you if you think muh anecdote means anything. Writ large, the education system has clearly failed boys. And that system is run by women.

Oh yeah, who makes the rules and sets the expectations at home? Also women.

You are fooling yourself. Boys have almost always been educated by women. The system is not failing boys. Rather boys are rejecting education.

Boys are very definitely educated differently now than they were when I was a kid.

And if one accepts the (asinine and false) claim that boys are rejecting education, I guess that means your conclusion is "oh well let's give up on boys then"? One could note that over the past decades, whenever girls are "underrepresented" in any educational area (most notably STEM) there is a huge push to fix this and to encourage girls to study the subject. But when boys fall behind, the reaction from women is shrug, "oh well, what can you do."

Disgusting.

No, exactly opposite. You made a wrong assumption! Perhaps I didn’t string my argument together coherently….we absolutely do need to fix what’s going on with boys, and we need to make adjustments to public education. I suggest we look to private schools as a model bc they’re doing an excellent job educating boys. Public school classrooms are big, noisy and have no rules. We should give them lots of room to goof off and horse around outside of class, but inside the teachers need to hold them accountable, and create an environment where it’s ok to be smart. Someone upthread suggested school is oriented toward females, with the implication being that if we relax the classroom boys will thrive. Earlier I pointed out the classroom environment has been loosened considerably, but boy performance has only gotten worse.

Why are they seemingly not interested? I think for social reasons. Outside of private school environments, there is not social cache to being smart. At my child’s public school the smart boys are almost entirely kids of immigrants! Which is another interesting dynamic

Private schools don’t have some special magic…they make sure they accept the “right” boys from the start.

They also counsel out many kids…or as you we know it…they expel them.

Public schools basically can’t expel anyone. Charter schools are perhaps a better answer because at least they can’t self-select their students and they can expel kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing is though that high school and middle school favors girls because they go through puberty earlier and that leads to changes in the brain that are advantageous for doing well in school. Boys do catch up eventually, but the current system does make them look like weaker college applicants (esp now that it is so competitive to get into top colleges).

I’m not disagreeing, but when I was in high school boys were just as competitive academically as the girls. There was not this gender imbalance in the classroom. Boys today are particularly disengaged from academics - so I do believe something additional is going on. Chalking it up to simple brain maturity means you’re leaving other explanations on the table.

As school in general has become more drill and kill with lots of worksheets and less fun and creative work and more teaching to the test, it favors girls and boys disengage. As my 7th grade son said in reference to a friend of his who is very smart but constantly forgets to bring the correct materials to class or finish his homework "there are lots of smart boys, but the smart girls are better at school." Their school doesn't allow kids to carry their backpacks around and they only have a couple times a day to go to their lockers, so even that requires a level of organization I didn't have to have in middle school.

My experience has been completely different— teaching methods used to be more “kill & drill” when we were young. Most schools have moved toward project-based assignments, collaboration, and application of knowledge instead of memorization/drills. Teachers are also more accommodating now! Many allow kids to talk quietly, listen to music on headphones, and have a higher tolerance for noise & movement.

So, again, something else is going on. I’m not sure why boys are faltering, but I think it can be fixed.

+1 Schools are bending over backwards to accommodate boys.

How exactly is that happening? I'm not seeing it. Schools are bending over backwards to make learning and especially reading hateful to boys.

How is reading hateful to boys? Didn't they used to teach boys to read but not girls? Aren't most classical authors men? There is no reason boys can't read at the same level as girls. You have to be able to sit and concentrate in order to read. Boys need to learn how to do that.

You obviously don't have a son. If you did, you would know there are books that boys actively like to read - they will do so voluntarily - and books that boys actively hate to read. Women English teachers (a redundant formulation, I know) are seemingly only capable of assigning the latter as class reading. I suspect it's because they are only assigning books they like without any thought for what boys like. Last year DS said his teacher told the class they could choose from among five books to write a report on - she said "you will really like these books!" - and every single one of them was a book designed to appeal only to girls. Talk about completely oblivious.

PP. I don't have a son your age. From my experiences 20 years ago it was the complete opposite. All of the books were about nature, seafaring, war and other masculine stuff. Most assigned reading bored me to tears but I still had good grades. It was great to read anything a bit modern like 1984, which was still male oriented but at least had psychological themes. I can hardly remember a time that we read anything that would tend to appeal to girls other than some scenes Romeo & Juliet. And it was for precisely the reason you stated: boys will only voluntarily read boy stuff but girls will tolerate boy stuff, so we, girls, had to read stuff like Call of the Wild. However, we survived and did our assignments.

That was back when boys were doing roughly as well as girls in school. Sure that's making the point you think it is? Sounds like we need to go back to that era to me.

If the boys can't adjust to even reading something that's not their favorite type of book, why should they be doing as well in school? What if they decide history, science, and math are boring too? Do they just get to play action figures then?

I’m sorry but parsing the emotions of some woman of color after she was allegedly raped just isn’t that interesting

Weren't you going to share your son's reading list?

I forgot the names and he is out with his bros but one had to do with some indigenous girl on a reservation. 3/6 books revolves around a rape. They were almost all written by female POCs. The one interesting book was Gatsby and teacher apologized for including it at open school night but said it was “actually a good book.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women control k-12 education and now college. They design the experience and set the expectations. When girls do relatively worse on standardized tests, they de-emphasize standardized tests. Everything about education these days is hostile to masculine energy which is of course considered toxic. Look at the books your son has to read in English class. The college application process itself favors girls- cultivating relationships with teachers for recommendations where they divulge all their feelings and dreams, getting involved in all these silly organizations. The system is dominated by women and rigged against boys.

Leadership positions at both k-12 and college level are overwhelmingly male.

"Leadership" at K-12 doesn't even matter. If your kid's school has a male principal, your kid will never even see him. The teachers your kids interact with all day every day are overwhelmingly female. In short, as the PP said, women control K-12 education where it matters - at the pit face - they control the experience from end to end. That female teachers have failed boys is certainly a plausible argument based on the outcome.

My son has done great in public school with almost entirely female teachers. No one’s failed him. Expectations for behavior and academic performance begin at home. So many parents letting their boys play video games and watch YouTube for hours and hours every day and then complaining that the school system is rigged against them. Pathetic.

Your education has failed you if you think muh anecdote means anything. Writ large, the education system has clearly failed boys. And that system is run by women.

Oh yeah, who makes the rules and sets the expectations at home? Also women.

You are fooling yourself. Boys have almost always been educated by women. The system is not failing boys. Rather boys are rejecting education.

Boys are very definitely educated differently now than they were when I was a kid.

And if one accepts the (asinine and false) claim that boys are rejecting education, I guess that means your conclusion is "oh well let's give up on boys then"? One could note that over the past decades, whenever girls are "underrepresented" in any educational area (most notably STEM) there is a huge push to fix this and to encourage girls to study the subject. But when boys fall behind, the reaction from women is shrug, "oh well, what can you do."

Disgusting.

No, exactly opposite. You made a wrong assumption! Perhaps I didn’t string my argument together coherently….we absolutely do need to fix what’s going on with boys, and we need to make adjustments to public education. I suggest we look to private schools as a model bc they’re doing an excellent job educating boys. Public school classrooms are big, noisy and have no rules. We should give them lots of room to goof off and horse around outside of class, but inside the teachers need to hold them accountable, and create an environment where it’s ok to be smart. Someone upthread suggested school is oriented toward females, with the implication being that if we relax the classroom boys will thrive. Earlier I pointed out the classroom environment has been loosened considerably, but boy performance has only gotten worse.

Why are they seemingly not interested? I think for social reasons. Outside of private school environments, there is not social cache to being smart. At my child’s public school the smart boys are almost entirely kids of immigrants! Which is another interesting dynamic

+1

This! Volunteer in any public high school class and you will see that teachers spend 90% of their time on the boys in the class. There is no discipline or expectations. The boys (not all) control the whole classroom environment. The girls (for the most part) sit quietly and do their best to do what they're told. It starts at home. Parents aren't teaching their boys the importance of education and respect. Boys these days play video games and watch porn all day and could care less about anything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing is though that high school and middle school favors girls because they go through puberty earlier and that leads to changes in the brain that are advantageous for doing well in school. Boys do catch up eventually, but the current system does make them look like weaker college applicants (esp now that it is so competitive to get into top colleges).

I’m not disagreeing, but when I was in high school boys were just as competitive academically as the girls. There was not this gender imbalance in the classroom. Boys today are particularly disengaged from academics - so I do believe something additional is going on. Chalking it up to simple brain maturity means you’re leaving other explanations on the table.

As school in general has become more drill and kill with lots of worksheets and less fun and creative work and more teaching to the test, it favors girls and boys disengage. As my 7th grade son said in reference to a friend of his who is very smart but constantly forgets to bring the correct materials to class or finish his homework "there are lots of smart boys, but the smart girls are better at school." Their school doesn't allow kids to carry their backpacks around and they only have a couple times a day to go to their lockers, so even that requires a level of organization I didn't have to have in middle school.

My experience has been completely different— teaching methods used to be more “kill & drill” when we were young. Most schools have moved toward project-based assignments, collaboration, and application of knowledge instead of memorization/drills. Teachers are also more accommodating now! Many allow kids to talk quietly, listen to music on headphones, and have a higher tolerance for noise & movement.

So, again, something else is going on. I’m not sure why boys are faltering, but I think it can be fixed.

+1 Schools are bending over backwards to accommodate boys.

How exactly is that happening? I'm not seeing it. Schools are bending over backwards to make learning and especially reading hateful to boys.

How is reading hateful to boys? Didn't they used to teach boys to read but not girls? Aren't most classical authors men? There is no reason boys can't read at the same level as girls. You have to be able to sit and concentrate in order to read. Boys need to learn how to do that.

You obviously don't have a son. If you did, you would know there are books that boys actively like to read - they will do so voluntarily - and books that boys actively hate to read. Women English teachers (a redundant formulation, I know) are seemingly only capable of assigning the latter as class reading. I suspect it's because they are only assigning books they like without any thought for what boys like. Last year DS said his teacher told the class they could choose from among five books to write a report on - she said "you will really like these books!" - and every single one of them was a book designed to appeal only to girls. Talk about completely oblivious.

PP. I don't have a son your age. From my experiences 20 years ago it was the complete opposite. All of the books were about nature, seafaring, war and other masculine stuff. Most assigned reading bored me to tears but I still had good grades. It was great to read anything a bit modern like 1984, which was still male oriented but at least had psychological themes. I can hardly remember a time that we read anything that would tend to appeal to girls other than some scenes Romeo & Juliet. And it was for precisely the reason you stated: boys will only voluntarily read boy stuff but girls will tolerate boy stuff, so we, girls, had to read stuff like Call of the Wild. However, we survived and did our assignments.

That was back when boys were doing roughly as well as girls in school. Sure that's making the point you think it is? Sounds like we need to go back to that era to me.

If the boys can't adjust to even reading something that's not their favorite type of book, why should they be doing as well in school? What if they decide history, science, and math are boring too? Do they just get to play action figures then?

I’m sorry but parsing the emotions of some woman of color after she was allegedly raped just isn’t that interesting

Weren't you going to share your son's reading list?

I forgot the names and he is out with his bros but one had to do with some indigenous girl on a reservation. 3/6 books revolves around a rape. They were almost all written by female POCs. The one interesting book was Gatsby and teacher apologized for including it at open school night but said it was “actually a good book.”

With all of the stuff going on with school libraries and sex, I'm awfully surprised that parents haven't complained about all these rape books...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing is though that high school and middle school favors girls because they go through puberty earlier and that leads to changes in the brain that are advantageous for doing well in school. Boys do catch up eventually, but the current system does make them look like weaker college applicants (esp now that it is so competitive to get into top colleges).

I’m not disagreeing, but when I was in high school boys were just as competitive academically as the girls. There was not this gender imbalance in the classroom. Boys today are particularly disengaged from academics - so I do believe something additional is going on. Chalking it up to simple brain maturity means you’re leaving other explanations on the table.

As school in general has become more drill and kill with lots of worksheets and less fun and creative work and more teaching to the test, it favors girls and boys disengage. As my 7th grade son said in reference to a friend of his who is very smart but constantly forgets to bring the correct materials to class or finish his homework "there are lots of smart boys, but the smart girls are better at school." Their school doesn't allow kids to carry their backpacks around and they only have a couple times a day to go to their lockers, so even that requires a level of organization I didn't have to have in middle school.

My experience has been completely different— teaching methods used to be more “kill & drill” when we were young. Most schools have moved toward project-based assignments, collaboration, and application of knowledge instead of memorization/drills. Teachers are also more accommodating now! Many allow kids to talk quietly, listen to music on headphones, and have a higher tolerance for noise & movement.

So, again, something else is going on. I’m not sure why boys are faltering, but I think it can be fixed.

+1 Schools are bending over backwards to accommodate boys.

How exactly is that happening? I'm not seeing it. Schools are bending over backwards to make learning and especially reading hateful to boys.

How is reading hateful to boys? Didn't they used to teach boys to read but not girls? Aren't most classical authors men? There is no reason boys can't read at the same level as girls. You have to be able to sit and concentrate in order to read. Boys need to learn how to do that.

You obviously don't have a son. If you did, you would know there are books that boys actively like to read - they will do so voluntarily - and books that boys actively hate to read. Women English teachers (a redundant formulation, I know) are seemingly only capable of assigning the latter as class reading. I suspect it's because they are only assigning books they like without any thought for what boys like. Last year DS said his teacher told the class they could choose from among five books to write a report on - she said "you will really like these books!" - and every single one of them was a book designed to appeal only to girls. Talk about completely oblivious.

PP. I don't have a son your age. From my experiences 20 years ago it was the complete opposite. All of the books were about nature, seafaring, war and other masculine stuff. Most assigned reading bored me to tears but I still had good grades. It was great to read anything a bit modern like 1984, which was still male oriented but at least had psychological themes. I can hardly remember a time that we read anything that would tend to appeal to girls other than some scenes Romeo & Juliet. And it was for precisely the reason you stated: boys will only voluntarily read boy stuff but girls will tolerate boy stuff, so we, girls, had to read stuff like Call of the Wild. However, we survived and did our assignments.

That was back when boys were doing roughly as well as girls in school. Sure that's making the point you think it is? Sounds like we need to go back to that era to me.

If the boys can't adjust to even reading something that's not their favorite type of book, why should they be doing as well in school? What if they decide history, science, and math are boring too? Do they just get to play action figures then?

I’m sorry but parsing the emotions of some woman of color after she was allegedly raped just isn’t that interesting

Weren't you going to share your son's reading list?

I forgot the names and he is out with his bros but one had to do with some indigenous girl on a reservation. 3/6 books revolves around a rape. They were almost all written by female POCs. The one interesting book was Gatsby and teacher apologized for including it at open school night but said it was “actually a good book.”

With all of the stuff going on with school libraries and sex, I'm awfully surprised that parents haven't complained about all these rape books...

Don’t get me started on the male gay porn books (and they are all male). Shows what the priority of these female librarians is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing is though that high school and middle school favors girls because they go through puberty earlier and that leads to changes in the brain that are advantageous for doing well in school. Boys do catch up eventually, but the current system does make them look like weaker college applicants (esp now that it is so competitive to get into top colleges).

I’m not disagreeing, but when I was in high school boys were just as competitive academically as the girls. There was not this gender imbalance in the classroom. Boys today are particularly disengaged from academics - so I do believe something additional is going on. Chalking it up to simple brain maturity means you’re leaving other explanations on the table.

As school in general has become more drill and kill with lots of worksheets and less fun and creative work and more teaching to the test, it favors girls and boys disengage. As my 7th grade son said in reference to a friend of his who is very smart but constantly forgets to bring the correct materials to class or finish his homework "there are lots of smart boys, but the smart girls are better at school." Their school doesn't allow kids to carry their backpacks around and they only have a couple times a day to go to their lockers, so even that requires a level of organization I didn't have to have in middle school.

My experience has been completely different— teaching methods used to be more “kill & drill” when we were young. Most schools have moved toward project-based assignments, collaboration, and application of knowledge instead of memorization/drills. Teachers are also more accommodating now! Many allow kids to talk quietly, listen to music on headphones, and have a higher tolerance for noise & movement.

So, again, something else is going on. I’m not sure why boys are faltering, but I think it can be fixed.

+1 Schools are bending over backwards to accommodate boys. The bar has gotten lower and lower, but I guess it’s not low enough.

My dad who was educated by nuns, likes to say he's glad he had daughters because boys need to be beaten into submission. Perhaps the removal of corporal punishment is the liberalism PP is bemoaning? None of this is my experience, I have a son and daughter who've both made it to college. DD has graduated with honors, and it's too soon to know if DS will match that, but he is plenty studious. If he's had a beef with some of the classroom management along the way, that's for him to sort. Actually, both had some of the same teachers, and mostly agreed in their gripes. This included male teachers with weird foibles, too.

I'm a man, and when I was a boy I was frequently beaten by teachers and by my parents. I completely disagree that boys need to be beaten. I have never needed to hit my sons. However, it ought to be obvious that boys need a different teaching style than girls, and you motivate boys differently from girls. I guess it's not obvious, though, at least to women, because women teachers invariably use the same teaching style on boys as they use on girls. This doesn't work but women teachers don't care, or just think the problem is the boys and not their teaching.

This sounds like an alt right ChatGPT response. Full of propaganda and completely misses PP's point

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing is though that high school and middle school favors girls because they go through puberty earlier and that leads to changes in the brain that are advantageous for doing well in school. Boys do catch up eventually, but the current system does make them look like weaker college applicants (esp now that it is so competitive to get into top colleges).

I’m not disagreeing, but when I was in high school boys were just as competitive academically as the girls. There was not this gender imbalance in the classroom. Boys today are particularly disengaged from academics - so I do believe something additional is going on. Chalking it up to simple brain maturity means you’re leaving other explanations on the table.

As school in general has become more drill and kill with lots of worksheets and less fun and creative work and more teaching to the test, it favors girls and boys disengage. As my 7th grade son said in reference to a friend of his who is very smart but constantly forgets to bring the correct materials to class or finish his homework "there are lots of smart boys, but the smart girls are better at school." Their school doesn't allow kids to carry their backpacks around and they only have a couple times a day to go to their lockers, so even that requires a level of organization I didn't have to have in middle school.

My experience has been completely different— teaching methods used to be more “kill & drill” when we were young. Most schools have moved toward project-based assignments, collaboration, and application of knowledge instead of memorization/drills. Teachers are also more accommodating now! Many allow kids to talk quietly, listen to music on headphones, and have a higher tolerance for noise & movement.

So, again, something else is going on. I’m not sure why boys are faltering, but I think it can be fixed.

+1 Schools are bending over backwards to accommodate boys.

How exactly is that happening? I'm not seeing it. Schools are bending over backwards to make learning and especially reading hateful to boys.

How is reading hateful to boys? Didn't they used to teach boys to read but not girls? Aren't most classical authors men? There is no reason boys can't read at the same level as girls. You have to be able to sit and concentrate in order to read. Boys need to learn how to do that.

You obviously don't have a son. If you did, you would know there are books that boys actively like to read - they will do so voluntarily - and books that boys actively hate to read. Women English teachers (a redundant formulation, I know) are seemingly only capable of assigning the latter as class reading. I suspect it's because they are only assigning books they like without any thought for what boys like. Last year DS said his teacher told the class they could choose from among five books to write a report on - she said "you will really like these books!" - and every single one of them was a book designed to appeal only to girls. Talk about completely oblivious.

PP. I don't have a son your age. From my experiences 20 years ago it was the complete opposite. All of the books were about nature, seafaring, war and other masculine stuff. Most assigned reading bored me to tears but I still had good grades. It was great to read anything a bit modern like 1984, which was still male oriented but at least had psychological themes. I can hardly remember a time that we read anything that would tend to appeal to girls other than some scenes Romeo & Juliet. And it was for precisely the reason you stated: boys will only voluntarily read boy stuff but girls will tolerate boy stuff, so we, girls, had to read stuff like Call of the Wild. However, we survived and did our assignments.

That was back when boys were doing roughly as well as girls in school. Sure that's making the point you think it is? Sounds like we need to go back to that era to me.

If the boys can't adjust to even reading something that's not their favorite type of book, why should they be doing as well in school? What if they decide history, science, and math are boring too? Do they just get to play action figures then?

I’m sorry but parsing the emotions of some woman of color after she was allegedly raped just isn’t that interesting

Weren't you going to share your son's reading list?

I forgot the names and he is out with his bros but one had to do with some indigenous girl on a reservation. 3/6 books revolves around a rape. They were almost all written by female POCs. The one interesting book was Gatsby and teacher apologized for including it at open school night but said it was “actually a good book.”

With all of the stuff going on with school libraries and sex, I'm awfully surprised that parents haven't complained about all these rape books...

My daughter was also subjected to a lot of books that included rape scenes. These were authored by male POC. Some BIPOC parents asked the school for more upbeat books since they thought it was depressing. The kids prefers Gatsby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing is though that high school and middle school favors girls because they go through puberty earlier and that leads to changes in the brain that are advantageous for doing well in school. Boys do catch up eventually, but the current system does make them look like weaker college applicants (esp now that it is so competitive to get into top colleges).

I’m not disagreeing, but when I was in high school boys were just as competitive academically as the girls. There was not this gender imbalance in the classroom. Boys today are particularly disengaged from academics - so I do believe something additional is going on. Chalking it up to simple brain maturity means you’re leaving other explanations on the table.

As school in general has become more drill and kill with lots of worksheets and less fun and creative work and more teaching to the test, it favors girls and boys disengage. As my 7th grade son said in reference to a friend of his who is very smart but constantly forgets to bring the correct materials to class or finish his homework "there are lots of smart boys, but the smart girls are better at school." Their school doesn't allow kids to carry their backpacks around and they only have a couple times a day to go to their lockers, so even that requires a level of organization I didn't have to have in middle school.

My experience has been completely different— teaching methods used to be more “kill & drill” when we were young. Most schools have moved toward project-based assignments, collaboration, and application of knowledge instead of memorization/drills. Teachers are also more accommodating now! Many allow kids to talk quietly, listen to music on headphones, and have a higher tolerance for noise & movement.

So, again, something else is going on. I’m not sure why boys are faltering, but I think it can be fixed.

+1 Schools are bending over backwards to accommodate boys.

How exactly is that happening? I'm not seeing it. Schools are bending over backwards to make learning and especially reading hateful to boys.

How is reading hateful to boys? Didn't they used to teach boys to read but not girls? Aren't most classical authors men? There is no reason boys can't read at the same level as girls. You have to be able to sit and concentrate in order to read. Boys need to learn how to do that.

You obviously don't have a son. If you did, you would know there are books that boys actively like to read - they will do so voluntarily - and books that boys actively hate to read. Women English teachers (a redundant formulation, I know) are seemingly only capable of assigning the latter as class reading. I suspect it's because they are only assigning books they like without any thought for what boys like. Last year DS said his teacher told the class they could choose from among five books to write a report on - she said "you will really like these books!" - and every single one of them was a book designed to appeal only to girls. Talk about completely oblivious.

PP. I don't have a son your age. From my experiences 20 years ago it was the complete opposite. All of the books were about nature, seafaring, war and other masculine stuff. Most assigned reading bored me to tears but I still had good grades. It was great to read anything a bit modern like 1984, which was still male oriented but at least had psychological themes. I can hardly remember a time that we read anything that would tend to appeal to girls other than some scenes Romeo & Juliet. And it was for precisely the reason you stated: boys will only voluntarily read boy stuff but girls will tolerate boy stuff, so we, girls, had to read stuff like Call of the Wild. However, we survived and did our assignments.

That was back when boys were doing roughly as well as girls in school. Sure that's making the point you think it is? Sounds like we need to go back to that era to me.

If the boys can't adjust to even reading something that's not their favorite type of book, why should they be doing as well in school? What if they decide history, science, and math are boring too? Do they just get to play action figures then?

I’m sorry but parsing the emotions of some woman of color after she was allegedly raped just isn’t that interesting

Weren't you going to share your son's reading list?

I forgot the names and he is out with his bros but one had to do with some indigenous girl on a reservation. 3/6 books revolves around a rape. They were almost all written by female POCs. The one interesting book was Gatsby and teacher apologized for including it at open school night but said it was “actually a good book.”

With all of the stuff going on with school libraries and sex, I'm awfully surprised that parents haven't complained about all these rape books...

My daughter was also subjected to a lot of books that included rape scenes. These were authored by male POC. Some BIPOC parents asked the school for more upbeat books since they thought it was depressing. The kids prefers Gatsby.

As schools in general have taken on the progressive value system and the ideology and therapeutic language of victimization, boys likely lose interest and find the whole thing lame, if not nauseating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing is though that high school and middle school favors girls because they go through puberty earlier and that leads to changes in the brain that are advantageous for doing well in school. Boys do catch up eventually, but the current system does make them look like weaker college applicants (esp now that it is so competitive to get into top colleges).

I’m not disagreeing, but when I was in high school boys were just as competitive academically as the girls. There was not this gender imbalance in the classroom. Boys today are particularly disengaged from academics - so I do believe something additional is going on. Chalking it up to simple brain maturity means you’re leaving other explanations on the table.

As school in general has become more drill and kill with lots of worksheets and less fun and creative work and more teaching to the test, it favors girls and boys disengage. As my 7th grade son said in reference to a friend of his who is very smart but constantly forgets to bring the correct materials to class or finish his homework "there are lots of smart boys, but the smart girls are better at school." Their school doesn't allow kids to carry their backpacks around and they only have a couple times a day to go to their lockers, so even that requires a level of organization I didn't have to have in middle school.

My experience has been completely different— teaching methods used to be more “kill & drill” when we were young. Most schools have moved toward project-based assignments, collaboration, and application of knowledge instead of memorization/drills. Teachers are also more accommodating now! Many allow kids to talk quietly, listen to music on headphones, and have a higher tolerance for noise & movement.

So, again, something else is going on. I’m not sure why boys are faltering, but I think it can be fixed.

+1 Schools are bending over backwards to accommodate boys.

How exactly is that happening? I'm not seeing it. Schools are bending over backwards to make learning and especially reading hateful to boys.

How is reading hateful to boys? Didn't they used to teach boys to read but not girls? Aren't most classical authors men? There is no reason boys can't read at the same level as girls. You have to be able to sit and concentrate in order to read. Boys need to learn how to do that.

You obviously don't have a son. If you did, you would know there are books that boys actively like to read - they will do so voluntarily - and books that boys actively hate to read. Women English teachers (a redundant formulation, I know) are seemingly only capable of assigning the latter as class reading. I suspect it's because they are only assigning books they like without any thought for what boys like. Last year DS said his teacher told the class they could choose from among five books to write a report on - she said "you will really like these books!" - and every single one of them was a book designed to appeal only to girls. Talk about completely oblivious.

PP. I don't have a son your age. From my experiences 20 years ago it was the complete opposite. All of the books were about nature, seafaring, war and other masculine stuff. Most assigned reading bored me to tears but I still had good grades. It was great to read anything a bit modern like 1984, which was still male oriented but at least had psychological themes. I can hardly remember a time that we read anything that would tend to appeal to girls other than some scenes Romeo & Juliet. And it was for precisely the reason you stated: boys will only voluntarily read boy stuff but girls will tolerate boy stuff, so we, girls, had to read stuff like Call of the Wild. However, we survived and did our assignments.

That was back when boys were doing roughly as well as girls in school. Sure that's making the point you think it is? Sounds like we need to go back to that era to me.

If the boys can't adjust to even reading something that's not their favorite type of book, why should they be doing as well in school? What if they decide history, science, and math are boring too? Do they just get to play action figures then?

I’m sorry but parsing the emotions of some woman of color after she was allegedly raped just isn’t that interesting

Weren't you going to share your son's reading list?

I forgot the names and he is out with his bros but one had to do with some indigenous girl on a reservation. 3/6 books revolves around a rape. They were almost all written by female POCs. The one interesting book was Gatsby and teacher apologized for including it at open school night but said it was “actually a good book.”

With all of the stuff going on with school libraries and sex, I'm awfully surprised that parents haven't complained about all these rape books...

My daughter was also subjected to a lot of books that included rape scenes. These were authored by male POC. Some BIPOC parents asked the school for more upbeat books since they thought it was depressing. The kids prefers Gatsby.

Gatsby is super upbeat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing is though that high school and middle school favors girls because they go through puberty earlier and that leads to changes in the brain that are advantageous for doing well in school. Boys do catch up eventually, but the current system does make them look like weaker college applicants (esp now that it is so competitive to get into top colleges).

I’m not disagreeing, but when I was in high school boys were just as competitive academically as the girls. There was not this gender imbalance in the classroom. Boys today are particularly disengaged from academics - so I do believe something additional is going on. Chalking it up to simple brain maturity means you’re leaving other explanations on the table.

As school in general has become more drill and kill with lots of worksheets and less fun and creative work and more teaching to the test, it favors girls and boys disengage. As my 7th grade son said in reference to a friend of his who is very smart but constantly forgets to bring the correct materials to class or finish his homework "there are lots of smart boys, but the smart girls are better at school." Their school doesn't allow kids to carry their backpacks around and they only have a couple times a day to go to their lockers, so even that requires a level of organization I didn't have to have in middle school.

My experience has been completely different— teaching methods used to be more “kill & drill” when we were young. Most schools have moved toward project-based assignments, collaboration, and application of knowledge instead of memorization/drills. Teachers are also more accommodating now! Many allow kids to talk quietly, listen to music on headphones, and have a higher tolerance for noise & movement.

So, again, something else is going on. I’m not sure why boys are faltering, but I think it can be fixed.

+1 Schools are bending over backwards to accommodate boys.

How exactly is that happening? I'm not seeing it. Schools are bending over backwards to make learning and especially reading hateful to boys.

How is reading hateful to boys? Didn't they used to teach boys to read but not girls? Aren't most classical authors men? There is no reason boys can't read at the same level as girls. You have to be able to sit and concentrate in order to read. Boys need to learn how to do that.

You obviously don't have a son. If you did, you would know there are books that boys actively like to read - they will do so voluntarily - and books that boys actively hate to read. Women English teachers (a redundant formulation, I know) are seemingly only capable of assigning the latter as class reading. I suspect it's because they are only assigning books they like without any thought for what boys like. Last year DS said his teacher told the class they could choose from among five books to write a report on - she said "you will really like these books!" - and every single one of them was a book designed to appeal only to girls. Talk about completely oblivious.

PP. I don't have a son your age. From my experiences 20 years ago it was the complete opposite. All of the books were about nature, seafaring, war and other masculine stuff. Most assigned reading bored me to tears but I still had good grades. It was great to read anything a bit modern like 1984, which was still male oriented but at least had psychological themes. I can hardly remember a time that we read anything that would tend to appeal to girls other than some scenes Romeo & Juliet. And it was for precisely the reason you stated: boys will only voluntarily read boy stuff but girls will tolerate boy stuff, so we, girls, had to read stuff like Call of the Wild. However, we survived and did our assignments.

That was back when boys were doing roughly as well as girls in school. Sure that's making the point you think it is? Sounds like we need to go back to that era to me.

If the boys can't adjust to even reading something that's not their favorite type of book, why should they be doing as well in school? What if they decide history, science, and math are boring too? Do they just get to play action figures then?

Girls didn’t get to play with dolls back in the day. Everyone should be able to adapt to a balance of both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women control k-12 education and now college. They design the experience and set the expectations. When girls do relatively worse on standardized tests, they de-emphasize standardized tests. Everything about education these days is hostile to masculine energy which is of course considered toxic. Look at the books your son has to read in English class. The college application process itself favors girls- cultivating relationships with teachers for recommendations where they divulge all their feelings and dreams, getting involved in all these silly organizations. The system is dominated by women and rigged against boys.

Leadership positions at both k-12 and college level are overwhelmingly male.

"Leadership" at K-12 doesn't even matter. If your kid's school has a male principal, your kid will never even see him. The teachers your kids interact with all day every day are overwhelmingly female. In short, as the PP said, women control K-12 education where it matters - at the pit face - they control the experience from end to end. That female teachers have failed boys is certainly a plausible argument based on the outcome.

My son has done great in public school with almost entirely female teachers. No one’s failed him. Expectations for behavior and academic performance begin at home. So many parents letting their boys play video games and watch YouTube for hours and hours every day and then complaining that the school system is rigged against them. Pathetic.

Your education has failed you if you think muh anecdote means anything. Writ large, the education system has clearly failed boys. And that system is run by women.

Oh yeah, who makes the rules and sets the expectations at home? Also women.

You are fooling yourself. Boys have almost always been educated by women. The system is not failing boys. Rather boys are rejecting education.

Boys are very definitely educated differently now than they were when I was a kid.

And if one accepts the (asinine and false) claim that boys are rejecting education, I guess that means your conclusion is "oh well let's give up on boys then"? One could note that over the past decades, whenever girls are "underrepresented" in any educational area (most notably STEM) there is a huge push to fix this and to encourage girls to study the subject. But when boys fall behind, the reaction from women is shrug, "oh well, what can you do."

Disgusting.

No, exactly opposite. You made a wrong assumption! Perhaps I didn’t string my argument together coherently….we absolutely do need to fix what’s going on with boys, and we need to make adjustments to public education. I suggest we look to private schools as a model bc they’re doing an excellent job educating boys. Public school classrooms are big, noisy and have no rules. We should give them lots of room to goof off and horse around outside of class, but inside the teachers need to hold them accountable, and create an environment where it’s ok to be smart. Someone upthread suggested school is oriented toward females, with the implication being that if we relax the classroom boys will thrive. Earlier I pointed out the classroom environment has been loosened considerably, but boy performance has only gotten worse.

Why are they seemingly not interested? I think for social reasons. Outside of private school environments, there is not social cache to being smart. At my child’s public school the smart boys are almost entirely kids of immigrants! Which is another interesting dynamic

+1

This! Volunteer in any public high school class and you will see that teachers spend 90% of their time on the boys in the class. There is no discipline or expectations. The boys (not all) control the whole classroom environment. The girls (for the most part) sit quietly and do their best to do what they're told. It starts at home. Parents aren't teaching their boys the importance of education and respect. Boys these days play video games and watch porn all day and could care less about anything else.

So, you either have no sons and therefore don’t know anything about which you speak or you have sons that you have parented so horribly that all
they do is play video games or watch porn. Either way, you don’t have a right to generalize about average boys. Because your generalizations couldn’t be farther from the truth.

Could you imagine the outrage if someone said that all girls care about is makeup, eating disorders, and catching a husband? You crazies would be going ballistic because it’s not a fair generalization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women control k-12 education and now college. They design the experience and set the expectations. When girls do relatively worse on standardized tests, they de-emphasize standardized tests. Everything about education these days is hostile to masculine energy which is of course considered toxic. Look at the books your son has to read in English class. The college application process itself favors girls- cultivating relationships with teachers for recommendations where they divulge all their feelings and dreams, getting involved in all these silly organizations. The system is dominated by women and rigged against boys.

Leadership positions at both k-12 and college level are overwhelmingly male.

"Leadership" at K-12 doesn't even matter. If your kid's school has a male principal, your kid will never even see him. The teachers your kids interact with all day every day are overwhelmingly female. In short, as the PP said, women control K-12 education where it matters - at the pit face - they control the experience from end to end. That female teachers have failed boys is certainly a plausible argument based on the outcome.

My son has done great in public school with almost entirely female teachers. No one’s failed him. Expectations for behavior and academic performance begin at home. So many parents letting their boys play video games and watch YouTube for hours and hours every day and then complaining that the school system is rigged against them. Pathetic.

Your education has failed you if you think muh anecdote means anything. Writ large, the education system has clearly failed boys. And that system is run by women.

Oh yeah, who makes the rules and sets the expectations at home? Also women.

You are fooling yourself. Boys have almost always been educated by women. The system is not failing boys. Rather boys are rejecting education.

Boys are very definitely educated differently now than they were when I was a kid.

And if one accepts the (asinine and false) claim that boys are rejecting education, I guess that means your conclusion is "oh well let's give up on boys then"? One could note that over the past decades, whenever girls are "underrepresented" in any educational area (most notably STEM) there is a huge push to fix this and to encourage girls to study the subject. But when boys fall behind, the reaction from women is shrug, "oh well, what can you do."

Disgusting.

No, exactly opposite. You made a wrong assumption! Perhaps I didn’t string my argument together coherently….we absolutely do need to fix what’s going on with boys, and we need to make adjustments to public education. I suggest we look to private schools as a model bc they’re doing an excellent job educating boys. Public school classrooms are big, noisy and have no rules. We should give them lots of room to goof off and horse around outside of class, but inside the teachers need to hold them accountable, and create an environment where it’s ok to be smart. Someone upthread suggested school is oriented toward females, with the implication being that if we relax the classroom boys will thrive. Earlier I pointed out the classroom environment has been loosened considerably, but boy performance has only gotten worse.

Why are they seemingly not interested? I think for social reasons. Outside of private school environments, there is not social cache to being smart. At my child’s public school the smart boys are almost entirely kids of immigrants! Which is another interesting dynamic

+1

This! Volunteer in any public high school class and you will see that teachers spend 90% of their time on the boys in the class. There is no discipline or expectations. The boys (not all) control the whole classroom environment. The girls (for the most part) sit quietly and do their best to do what they're told. It starts at home. Parents aren't teaching their boys the importance of education and respect. Boys these days play video games and watch porn all day and could care less about anything else.

So, you either have no sons and therefore don’t know anything about which you speak or you have sons that you have parented so horribly that all
they do is play video games or watch porn. Either way, you don’t have a right to generalize about average boys. Because your generalizations couldn’t be farther from the truth.

Could you imagine the outrage if someone said that all girls care about is makeup, eating disorders, and catching a husband? You crazies would be going ballistic because it’s not a fair generalization.

I’m not the PP and I have a boy and I have to say the struggle against gaming addiction for boys is real. It is a frequent topic of conversation among other parents of boys. I found mention of a study that says 19 percent of teen boys may have a gaming disorder (compared to 8 percent of girls). So while not common to all boys, could be a significant enough phenomenon to account for at least some of the difference in educational outcomes.

[Anonymous]

I know many schools have higher male than female acceptance rates, but for the top STEM-focused schools, it's the opposite by nearly 2 to 1.

https://ir.mit.edu/cds-2023

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing is though that high school and middle school favors girls because they go through puberty earlier and that leads to changes in the brain that are advantageous for doing well in school. Boys do catch up eventually, but the current system does make them look like weaker college applicants (esp now that it is so competitive to get into top colleges).

I’m not disagreeing, but when I was in high school boys were just as competitive academically as the girls. There was not this gender imbalance in the classroom. Boys today are particularly disengaged from academics - so I do believe something additional is going on. Chalking it up to simple brain maturity means you’re leaving other explanations on the table.

As school in general has become more drill and kill with lots of worksheets and less fun and creative work and more teaching to the test, it favors girls and boys disengage. As my 7th grade son said in reference to a friend of his who is very smart but constantly forgets to bring the correct materials to class or finish his homework "there are lots of smart boys, but the smart girls are better at school." Their school doesn't allow kids to carry their backpacks around and they only have a couple times a day to go to their lockers, so even that requires a level of organization I didn't have to have in middle school.

My experience has been completely different— teaching methods used to be more “kill & drill” when we were young. Most schools have moved toward project-based assignments, collaboration, and application of knowledge instead of memorization/drills. Teachers are also more accommodating now! Many allow kids to talk quietly, listen to music on headphones, and have a higher tolerance for noise & movement.

So, again, something else is going on. I’m not sure why boys are faltering, but I think it can be fixed.

+1 Schools are bending over backwards to accommodate boys.

How exactly is that happening? I'm not seeing it. Schools are bending over backwards to make learning and especially reading hateful to boys.

How is reading hateful to boys? Didn't they used to teach boys to read but not girls? Aren't most classical authors men? There is no reason boys can't read at the same level as girls. You have to be able to sit and concentrate in order to read. Boys need to learn how to do that.

You obviously don't have a son. If you did, you would know there are books that boys actively like to read - they will do so voluntarily - and books that boys actively hate to read. Women English teachers (a redundant formulation, I know) are seemingly only capable of assigning the latter as class reading. I suspect it's because they are only assigning books they like without any thought for what boys like. Last year DS said his teacher told the class they could choose from among five books to write a report on - she said "you will really like these books!" - and every single one of them was a book designed to appeal only to girls. Talk about completely oblivious.

PP. I don't have a son your age. From my experiences 20 years ago it was the complete opposite. All of the books were about nature, seafaring, war and other masculine stuff. Most assigned reading bored me to tears but I still had good grades. It was great to read anything a bit modern like 1984, which was still male oriented but at least had psychological themes. I can hardly remember a time that we read anything that would tend to appeal to girls other than some scenes Romeo & Juliet. And it was for precisely the reason you stated: boys will only voluntarily read boy stuff but girls will tolerate boy stuff, so we, girls, had to read stuff like Call of the Wild. However, we survived and did our assignments.

That was back when boys were doing roughly as well as girls in school. Sure that's making the point you think it is? Sounds like we need to go back to that era to me.

If the boys can't adjust to even reading something that's not their favorite type of book, why should they be doing as well in school? What if they decide history, science, and math are boring too? Do they just get to play action figures then?

I’m sorry but parsing the emotions of some woman of color after she was allegedly raped just isn’t that interesting

Weren't you going to share your son's reading list?

I forgot the names and he is out with his bros but one had to do with some indigenous girl on a reservation. 3/6 books revolves around a rape. They were almost all written by female POCs. The one interesting book was Gatsby and teacher apologized for including it at open school night but said it was “actually a good book.”

With all of the stuff going on with school libraries and sex, I'm awfully surprised that parents haven't complained about all these rape books...

My daughter was also subjected to a lot of books that included rape scenes. These were authored by male POC. Some BIPOC parents asked the school for more upbeat books since they thought it was depressing. The kids prefers Gatsby.

Any of these books on the list?

https://jocolibrary.bibliocommons.com/list/share/186066773/1069795477

I have a son in a MD public school and he has never read any books on rape, sexual/ gender identity, etc.