APS Engage Update Pre-CIP Report

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the Hamm people complaining, what is your proposal to fill Williamsburg then? Who should get bused over there? Not your children. We’ve got that.

Restore the “Rosslyn Island.” The Rosslyn students in high density housing were zoned to Williamsburg up until 2019 or so when the boundaries last changed. No one except APS staff complained about it since it looked “weird.”


It contributed to socio-economic diversity and also helped fill the school since Williamsburg is in an area of low density single family homes.

Rosslyn families complained. But I guess they shouldn’t have a voice.

Rosslyn students would either be bussed to Williamsburg or Hamm. I think homes a block away from Hamm within view of the school itself should be zoned to Hamm over bussing neighborhoods from Rosslyn.

Of course Rosslyn families should have a voice. But their options are limited since there are no middle schools near Rosslyn.

Hamm is near Rosslyn! And yes they did complain about Williamsburg.

What I can’t stand is the self-serving logic that comes out in these conversations. Throwing any talking point at the wall which means my kid doesn’t have to…

Just say what it is. I don’t want to be personally disrupted.

Back in the day, the original idea was to have hamm at the heights (leave the Stratford building the location for hb). Taylor parents pushed for Stratford to be a middle school. Ironic now that they won’t go there.

Taylor parent here. I don’t live a move to WMS b/c Hamm is so close, but Heights was a terrible option for a neighborhood middle school with 300 more students than the current HB program and almost zero green space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What these discussions reveal is that most people have zero clue how anything actually works in local government.

The County cannot just build schools anywhere.

The County does not have endless piles of money to spend to make sure your child is guaranteed to walk to school for life and never changes schools.

There are many other things going on in this County and MOST people in this County don't send kids to APS and don't care about APS at all. Their are many other populations who also pay taxes and want and require services and other competing priorities.

No, they don’t have endless piles of money, but in APS they have a whole lot, and they have not been wise stewards of it in recent years.

For what it’s worth, I have been paying taxes in Arlington for over a decade with no kids in schools, and I will be paying taxes for years after they are done. Funding public education is one of the main responsibilities of county government. I am not unreasonable to expect that my taxpayer money be used wisely and based on sound decisonmaking principles.

The School Board has an obligation to show its work and address public concerns. Given the long history of failure in this regard I’m not taking their word as fact and I’m not assuming their assumptions are sound.

Funny, APS had piles of money for HBW Heights building.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Build new facilities in South Arlington, where the county needs them, already!

Stop messing around with boundaries and whatnot to try to alleviate crowding in the south by moving kids north. Please.

And I live in North Arlington.

Of course you do!
And let's keep the next generation or two of south elementary students jammed into their facilities while we northerners enjoy air and space and calm until that additional school can be built in the south. Duh. It's the simple and logical solution. We'll even offer-up some of our teachers to those crowded schools with hundreds more children.

Well I will add more facts — I live in North Arlington but my children attend Campbell, which is in South Arlington.

Doesn't change my comment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never understood the obsession with walkable schools. My kids have gone to both walkable and non-walkable. Particularly in elementary school, getting bused is awesome. Great community at the bus stop. I built more neighborhood community doing that than being a walker. Very convenient in the mornings in particular if you work. My kids loved the bus. Walkable schools when they're young and need to be accompanied on the walk and you're on the outer part of the walkable area is a pain in the ass.

+1
I'll let you in on a secret, though: it isn't about being able to walk to school. It's about being entitled to whatever you want, where you want it, when you want it, how you want it. And, more critically, what you don't want and what you purposely planned and paid to avoid. It just sounds nicer under the banners of "walkability" and "efficiency."

Transportation costs money, wastes time, and is bad for the environment. “Car free diet”, remember?

Just a few short years ago the county was complaining about a shortage of bus drivers and reducing bus costs. Now they want to force buses and cars all over the county. Specifically, on to hilly roads with poor line of sight, built 70 years ago and not fit for the purpose. People have died on Little Falls Street within sight of Nottingham. We only just got 4 way stops, and only after much complaining. I guess that’s entitlement for you, that we don’t want our community members dying in pedestrian incidents.

It’s a neighborhood area that needs less cut through traffic, not more. And APS hasn’t said boo about that in all 200+ pages of its “analysis”.

I guess that’s entitlement to you. Sorry you have lower standards. Some of us expect better for the money spent.

These issues aren't the job of the school board sweetie. Their job is to educate students. Sorry you don't like the 2002 Honda Civics driving by your house, but that's not a good reason.

OMG, OMG, what if they PARK it there all day? House values will plummet! /s

NP. I don’t have a dog in this fight because we left APS for private. But, you do nothing for your argument by being condescending/insulting. It’s almost like you can’t respond intelligently so you use ad hominem attacks…why don’t you let the adults discuss this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never understood the obsession with walkable schools. My kids have gone to both walkable and non-walkable. Particularly in elementary school, getting bused is awesome. Great community at the bus stop. I built more neighborhood community doing that than being a walker. Very convenient in the mornings in particular if you work. My kids loved the bus. Walkable schools when they're young and need to be accompanied on the walk and you're on the outer part of the walkable area is a pain in the ass.

+1
I'll let you in on a secret, though: it isn't about being able to walk to school. It's about being entitled to whatever you want, where you want it, when you want it, how you want it. And, more critically, what you don't want and what you purposely planned and paid to avoid. It just sounds nicer under the banners of "walkability" and "efficiency."

Transportation costs money, wastes time, and is bad for the environment. “Car free diet”, remember?

Just a few short years ago the county was complaining about a shortage of bus drivers and reducing bus costs. Now they want to force buses and cars all over the county. Specifically, on to hilly roads with poor line of sight, built 70 years ago and not fit for the purpose. People have died on Little Falls Street within sight of Nottingham. We only just got 4 way stops, and only after much complaining. I guess that’s entitlement for you, that we don’t want our community members dying in pedestrian incidents.

It’s a neighborhood area that needs less cut through traffic, not more. And APS hasn’t said boo about that in all 200+ pages of its “analysis”.

I guess that’s entitlement to you. Sorry you have lower standards. Some of us expect better for the money spent.

This past year several elementary schools were forced to move up their start time to 7:50am due to the bus shortage. A shortage of drivers and reducing bus costs is an ongoing issue and it makes zero sense for APS to exacerbate this problem.

My kids' bus stop has no sidewalks. Most of the kids have to walk home from there along a street with no sidewalks. The street goes up a hill, around a curve, and has signs reminding drivers there is a blind curve and drivers can't see over the top of the hill. But yea, lets sent the elementary school kids down this road every day.

South Arlington already has too much cut through traffic. I'm not saying North Arlington should get bad things to even things out, but a lot of what North Arlington complains about already is reality for South Arlington.

As for posters saying there is no space for new schools, there used to be a time schools would be built on part of the playground one year, and then the kids moved in the next year. There was a North Arlington school (maybe Taylor) I visited this past year. I was shocked by how much green space was around it.
Plenty for another school to be built on. How many other elementary schools have large parks next to them? Probably none in south Arlington, but I have been very surprised how much construction has been happening in south Arlington the past 10 years or so. I'd think if it was a space issue Arlington could have built where all of the new construction is happening in south arlington, any time in the past decade.

Not if they don’t own the land and can’t afford to buy it.

Arlington collects a lot in property taxes and spends a huge amount. This is a planning issue, not a cash issue. There have been several new schools in recent memory (Discovery, Hamm, Cardinal, Fleet). APS planning is short sighted and that costs more in the end. I think this is the third boundary change I've been aware of and my kid isn't even out of elementary school yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a rising 5th grader and we will be rezoned to a different school if this passes. Does that mean she has to switch after 6th grade?

No, unless she is in immersion. It only impacts rising 4th and younger.

The draft recommendation assumes in Fall 2025:

County-wide Immersion grades 6, 7 & 8 move as whole to Kenmore

Two-thirds of Immersion students that live in current Gunston boundary move to Kenmore

Boundary changes apply to grade 6 students, students in grades 7 & 8 will be grandfathered

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never understood the obsession with walkable schools. My kids have gone to both walkable and non-walkable. Particularly in elementary school, getting bused is awesome. Great community at the bus stop. I built more neighborhood community doing that than being a walker. Very convenient in the mornings in particular if you work. My kids loved the bus. Walkable schools when they're young and need to be accompanied on the walk and you're on the outer part of the walkable area is a pain in the ass.

+1
I'll let you in on a secret, though: it isn't about being able to walk to school. It's about being entitled to whatever you want, where you want it, when you want it, how you want it. And, more critically, what you don't want and what you purposely planned and paid to avoid. It just sounds nicer under the banners of "walkability" and "efficiency."

Transportation costs money, wastes time, and is bad for the environment. “Car free diet”, remember?

Just a few short years ago the county was complaining about a shortage of bus drivers and reducing bus costs. Now they want to force buses and cars all over the county. Specifically, on to hilly roads with poor line of sight, built 70 years ago and not fit for the purpose. People have died on Little Falls Street within sight of Nottingham. We only just got 4 way stops, and only after much complaining. I guess that’s entitlement for you, that we don’t want our community members dying in pedestrian incidents.

It’s a neighborhood area that needs less cut through traffic, not more. And APS hasn’t said boo about that in all 200+ pages of its “analysis”.

I guess that’s entitlement to you. Sorry you have lower standards. Some of us expect better for the money spent.

This past year several elementary schools were forced to move up their start time to 7:50am due to the bus shortage. A shortage of drivers and reducing bus costs is an ongoing issue and it makes zero sense for APS to exacerbate this problem.

My kids' bus stop has no sidewalks. Most of the kids have to walk home from there along a street with no sidewalks. The street goes up a hill, around a curve, and has signs reminding drivers there is a blind curve and drivers can't see over the top of the hill. But yea, lets sent the elementary school kids down this road every day.

South Arlington already has too much cut through traffic. I'm not saying North Arlington should get bad things to even things out, but a lot of what North Arlington complains about already is reality for South Arlington.

As for posters saying there is no space for new schools, there used to be a time schools would be built on part of the playground one year, and then the kids moved in the next year. There was a North Arlington school (maybe Taylor) I visited this past year. I was shocked by how much green space was around it.
Plenty for another school to be built on. How many other elementary schools have large parks next to them? Probably none in south Arlington, but I have been very surprised how much construction has been happening in south Arlington the past 10 years or so. I'd think if it was a space issue Arlington could have built where all of the new construction is happening in south arlington, any time in the past decade.

Not if they don’t own the land and can’t afford to buy it.

Arlington collects a lot in property taxes and spends a huge amount. This is a planning issue, not a cash issue. There have been several new schools in recent memory (Discovery, Hamm, Cardinal, Fleet). APS planning is short sighted and that costs more in the end. I think this is the third boundary change I've been aware of and my kid isn't even out of elementary school yet.

Arlington County, not APS,collects taxes. There’s a set percentage that they give to APS and not a penny more, regardless of the circumstances. When enrollment declined in the 1970s-1990s, APS sold school sites to the County, and they’re now used for other community purposes, such as Community centers or the Arts center. Arlington will not consider returning any properties to APS and the cost of land is so high that APS has been forced to build only on land it already owns. All the projects you’ve mentioned were built on APS land, and sometimes that’s not in the ideal location for where the growth is, or it’s within the walk zone(s) of already existing schools. You should be angry with the COUNTY, not APS. APS is not their priority. The board members are pretty clear about that and they win anyway, so the majority of Arlingtonians disagree that APS needs anything more that it gets right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never understood the obsession with walkable schools. My kids have gone to both walkable and non-walkable. Particularly in elementary school, getting bused is awesome. Great community at the bus stop. I built more neighborhood community doing that than being a walker. Very convenient in the mornings in particular if you work. My kids loved the bus. Walkable schools when they're young and need to be accompanied on the walk and you're on the outer part of the walkable area is a pain in the ass.

+1
I'll let you in on a secret, though: it isn't about being able to walk to school. It's about being entitled to whatever you want, where you want it, when you want it, how you want it. And, more critically, what you don't want and what you purposely planned and paid to avoid. It just sounds nicer under the banners of "walkability" and "efficiency."

Transportation costs money, wastes time, and is bad for the environment. “Car free diet”, remember?

Just a few short years ago the county was complaining about a shortage of bus drivers and reducing bus costs. Now they want to force buses and cars all over the county. Specifically, on to hilly roads with poor line of sight, built 70 years ago and not fit for the purpose. People have died on Little Falls Street within sight of Nottingham. We only just got 4 way stops, and only after much complaining. I guess that’s entitlement for you, that we don’t want our community members dying in pedestrian incidents.

It’s a neighborhood area that needs less cut through traffic, not more. And APS hasn’t said boo about that in all 200+ pages of its “analysis”.

I guess that’s entitlement to you. Sorry you have lower standards. Some of us expect better for the money spent.

This past year several elementary schools were forced to move up their start time to 7:50am due to the bus shortage. A shortage of drivers and reducing bus costs is an ongoing issue and it makes zero sense for APS to exacerbate this problem.

My kids' bus stop has no sidewalks. Most of the kids have to walk home from there along a street with no sidewalks. The street goes up a hill, around a curve, and has signs reminding drivers there is a blind curve and drivers can't see over the top of the hill. But yea, lets sent the elementary school kids down this road every day.

South Arlington already has too much cut through traffic. I'm not saying North Arlington should get bad things to even things out, but a lot of what North Arlington complains about already is reality for South Arlington.

As for posters saying there is no space for new schools, there used to be a time schools would be built on part of the playground one year, and then the kids moved in the next year. There was a North Arlington school (maybe Taylor) I visited this past year. I was shocked by how much green space was around it.
Plenty for another school to be built on. How many other elementary schools have large parks next to them? Probably none in south Arlington, but I have been very surprised how much construction has been happening in south Arlington the past 10 years or so. I'd think if it was a space issue Arlington could have built where all of the new construction is happening in south arlington, any time in the past decade.

Not if they don’t own the land and can’t afford to buy it.

Arlington collects a lot in property taxes and spends a huge amount. This is a planning issue, not a cash issue. There have been several new schools in recent memory (Discovery, Hamm, Cardinal, Fleet). APS planning is short sighted and that costs more in the end. I think this is the third boundary change I've been aware of and my kid isn't even out of elementary school yet.

Arlington County, not APS,collects taxes. There’s a set percentage that they give to APS and not a penny more, regardless of the circumstances. When enrollment declined in the 1970s-1990s, APS sold school sites to the County, and they’re now used for other community purposes, such as Community centers or the Arts center. Arlington will not consider returning any properties to APS and the cost of land is so high that APS has been forced to build only on land it already owns. All the projects you’ve mentioned were built on APS land, and sometimes that’s not in the ideal location for where the growth is, or it’s within the walk zone(s) of already existing schools. You should be angry with the COUNTY, not APS. APS is not their priority. The board members are pretty clear about that and they win anyway, so the majority of Arlingtonians disagree that APS needs anything more that it gets right now.

Fair points. I'll clarify. APS, and APS parents, need to advocate more effectively to the county to provide or sell county land to APS. Arlington county has a lot of money. There is a long standing history of the Arlington county entities NOT communicating and instead working as if one doesn't impact the other. That is likely part of the problem here too.

However, I'll also say that APS crying "poor" doesn't hold water because I've seen APS bonds on the ballot so clearly they don't have to rely on just whatever the county gives them. APS should create a holistic, logical boundary proposal for elementary, middle, and high school based on solid data, show where the one or two new schools need to be built, how much they would get from selling land from schools that are no longer needed (prime missing middle development opportunity), and the shortfall needed? Then compare that with the cost of inadequate short term adjustments they keep making and see which one costs less? Put that before the community. I'd bet the longer term plan that actually solves problems would be more cost effective vs the adjustments they keep making that don't solve problems and ignore population growth.

[Anonymous]

Oh when APS is done using Nottingham has a seinf school they can sell it and the county can build a affordable housing complex!

[Anonymous]

Oh when APS is done using Nottingham has a seinf school they can sell it and the county can build a affordable housing complex!

Wow I can't type. Seinf= swing school
Has=as.

[Anonymous]

Is this all going to become an issue in the school board election?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this all going to become an issue in the school board election?

No because it already happened. The primary is the election and that’s done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this all going to become an issue in the school board election?

No because it already happened. The primary is the election and that’s done.

So, why can't it become an issue?

If I were a Nottingham parent, I would sure be asking the candidates for their positions on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this all going to become an issue in the school board election?

No because it already happened. The primary is the election and that’s done.

So, why can't it become an issue?

If I were a Nottingham parent, I would sure be asking the candidates for their positions on it.

Same for the people who don't want to leave Hamm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the Hamm people complaining, what is your proposal to fill Williamsburg then? Who should get bused over there? Not your children. We’ve got that.

Restore the “Rosslyn Island.” The Rosslyn students in high density housing were zoned to Williamsburg up until 2019 or so when the boundaries last changed. No one except APS staff complained about it since it looked “weird.”

It contributed to socio-economic diversity and also helped fill the school since Williamsburg is in an area of low density single family homes.

Rosslyn families complained. But I guess they shouldn’t have a voice.

Rosslyn students would either be bussed to Williamsburg or Hamm. I think homes a block away from Hamm within view of the school itself should be zoned to Hamm over bussing neighborhoods from Rosslyn.

Of course Rosslyn families should have a voice. But their options are limited since there are no middle schools near Rosslyn.

Because the Taylor families complained having about a Rosslyn middle school.

There’s no sense in dredging up the past. A number of factors came into play which the school board voted on. We have to work with the schools we have now.

The families at the affordable Woodbury Park apartments near the Clarendon Whole Foods did publicly complain about the boundary island and being bussed to Williamsburg and Yorktown instead of Hamm and W-L. Unfortunately they ended up being bussed to TJ instead of Hamm, while still going to Yorktown. So Woodbury Park kids are now more isolated than ever. They should probably be zoned to Hamm and W-L with the Science Focus families, while the Innovation neighborhoods in Rosslyn and Lyon Village should be zoned to Williamsburg and Yorktown.

+1000. Your last sentence is and has always been the answer.