Any Ivy graduates here? Ivy League graduate son in a funk, humuliated, & remains jobless

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the comments are amusing. People really, greatly, hugely, exaggerate the ability of a mere Ivy degree to get you a great job. An Ivy degree can make recruiters and hiring managers look more closely at your resume but that's it. There are plenty of Ivy grads who get nowhere. There's no quotas set aside for Ivy grads at premier investment firms and IB isn't what it was 20 years ago either. Yes, the bright kids go on to great things but they proactively made it happen rather than waiting for it to happen. The "networking" is nothing like what some people on here might want to believe. It barely exists. If anything, it's better at UVA than Columbia.

Do you have any data to back this up?

This is directly my experience, as a lower middle class Ivy grad. In fact I think there is very little class mingling at an Ivy except for dating and maybe sports (I am not an athlete so don’t know —- it may be exceptional skill not just team membership that gives you an in?). From what I’ve seen most people are using their parents snd elite high school network (deeper relationships with shared history) and don’t need to interact with college network.

Most of the "Ivy networking" people dream of is more a function of the class of the individual than the school. A wealthy kid from NYC whose father is a connected figure in banking is the one who has "networking" access, not the run of mill Ivy student from an anonymous family. That's why a similar kid from a similar family but who went to, say, Colgate, still ends up in the same position as the Ivy peer. And all the Ivies have their quota of rich kids from connected families, whether Hollywood producers, famous DC journalists, NYC billionaires, etc, but they live unto themselves and it's a different reality for them than it is for the rest of the student body.

For the non connected kids, it's those who play sports, typically lacrosse or football, or in certain fraternities who can overcome this barrier. The sports teams or fraternities can have tightly knit networking post graduation and are intense experiences during the Ivy years where you live and spend most of your time with team mates. Which is why quite a few working class kids recruited to play sports at the Ivies end up on Wall Street. Especially lacrosse as it's a sport that recruits both rich and working class kids and has them in close proximity all the time. The working class kids learn from word of mouth and watching their richer teammates and the richer teammates often do proactively help in the networking.

The idea that there is this extended and entrenched pool of alums eager to hire grads from the same school at any time is a bit laughable. But even for the unconnected, a great value of the Ivy environment is simply being around many bright and energetic kids and learning from watching them make decisions re careers or internships or which classes leads to better careers or what their parents do and so forth. That continual exposure can be a great benefit. If you're smart enough to take advantage of it. But you have to do something about it, sitting back and waiting for something to happen to you ain't going to get you anywhere.

Lacrosse? Have you looked at the Harvard lacrosse roster? Pretty much every single one of those kids went to a well known private school and comes from a “richest towns in America” hometown. Football is a lot more egalitarian in terms of background.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the comments are amusing. People really, greatly, hugely, exaggerate the ability of a mere Ivy degree to get you a great job. An Ivy degree can make recruiters and hiring managers look more closely at your resume but that's it. There are plenty of Ivy grads who get nowhere. There's no quotas set aside for Ivy grads at premier investment firms and IB isn't what it was 20 years ago either. Yes, the bright kids go on to great things but they proactively made it happen rather than waiting for it to happen. The "networking" is nothing like what some people on here might want to believe. It barely exists. If anything, it's better at UVA than Columbia.

Do you have any data to back this up?

This is directly my experience, as a lower middle class Ivy grad. In fact I think there is very little class mingling at an Ivy except for dating and maybe sports (I am not an athlete so don’t know —- it may be exceptional skill not just team membership that gives you an in?). From what I’ve seen most people are using their parents snd elite high school network (deeper relationships with shared history) and don’t need to interact with college network.

The cliques at elite colleges are pretty stratified. Maybe everyone sort of parties with each other, but the rich kids, or more specifically the rich kids' parents, are not sticking their neck out to get the middle class token "friend" some plum job. There was a book a while back about Yale graduates. The lower class guy in a group of Yale friends was invited to be a groomsman at weddings and yet after college he was back to his dumpy hometown. The lower class guy ended up getting murdered in his hometown because he was selling drugs or something low class like this, while his ritzy friends were in Manhattan with plum jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the comments are amusing. People really, greatly, hugely, exaggerate the ability of a mere Ivy degree to get you a great job. An Ivy degree can make recruiters and hiring managers look more closely at your resume but that's it. There are plenty of Ivy grads who get nowhere. There's no quotas set aside for Ivy grads at premier investment firms and IB isn't what it was 20 years ago either. Yes, the bright kids go on to great things but they proactively made it happen rather than waiting for it to happen. The "networking" is nothing like what some people on here might want to believe. It barely exists. If anything, it's better at UVA than Columbia.

Do you have any data to back this up?

It’s true. The boost comes from seeing other privileged high achievers and their friends and family at close range and observing their choices and strategies up close so you can make similar ones. Then once you have a perch there’s more insiders helping insiders like a team of field horses. But you have to get and keep your perch, and you have to stay on trajectory or you lose your privileges and access.

In other words, you have no clue.

Tell me you didn’t go to an elite prep school or an ivy without telling me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why your kid is depressed—he knows others are pulling ahead. It’s also why he has to get off his ass and into a program or grad school or good job.

I didn't go to an Ivy but I remember being in the dumps when the Wall Street banker and computer science geniuses were bragging about their six-figure job offers and other smart classmates started getting into medical school and elite law schools. It really sucks to be on the bottom of the totem pole at any university full of ambitious peers. It seems like they have everything figured out and are playing on a different level, while you feel like an idiot who just wasted the last four years. Truth is, unless you catch a really luck break or marry rich, you never catch up to those classmates.

Speak for yourself. I got my ass in gear and went to professional school four years after graduating with no plan. I quadrupled my salary and earning potential.

[Anonymous]

OP, isn't it impossible he's depressed? If so, something that requires a ton of effort might be nearly impossible right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, isn't it impossible he's depressed? If so, something that requires a ton of effort might be nearly impossible right now.

There are so many entry level fake jobs in tech and finance where you do basically nothing all day and make $75,000 plus fringe. Things have dried up a little from 2020-2022, but still, an Ivy degree opens those doors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the comments are amusing. People really, greatly, hugely, exaggerate the ability of a mere Ivy degree to get you a great job. An Ivy degree can make recruiters and hiring managers look more closely at your resume but that's it. There are plenty of Ivy grads who get nowhere. There's no quotas set aside for Ivy grads at premier investment firms and IB isn't what it was 20 years ago either. Yes, the bright kids go on to great things but they proactively made it happen rather than waiting for it to happen. The "networking" is nothing like what some people on here might want to believe. It barely exists. If anything, it's better at UVA than Columbia.

Do you have any data to back this up?

This is directly my experience, as a lower middle class Ivy grad. In fact I think there is very little class mingling at an Ivy except for dating and maybe sports (I am not an athlete so don’t know —- it may be exceptional skill not just team membership that gives you an in?). From what I’ve seen most people are using their parents snd elite high school network (deeper relationships with shared history) and don’t need to interact with college network.

The cliques at elite colleges are pretty stratified. Maybe everyone sort of parties with each other, but the rich kids, or more specifically the rich kids' parents, are not sticking their neck out to get the middle class token "friend" some plum job. There was a book a while back about Yale graduates. The lower class guy in a group of Yale friends was invited to be a groomsman at weddings and yet after college he was back to his dumpy hometown. The lower class guy ended up getting murdered in his hometown because he was selling drugs or something low class like this, while his ritzy friends were in Manhattan with plum jobs.

I know what store you're talking about. This involved a african american man who went back to his home in NJ to be a science teacher while also selling drugs.

There is a lot more to the story than you told. smh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the comments are amusing. People really, greatly, hugely, exaggerate the ability of a mere Ivy degree to get you a great job. An Ivy degree can make recruiters and hiring managers look more closely at your resume but that's it. There are plenty of Ivy grads who get nowhere. There's no quotas set aside for Ivy grads at premier investment firms and IB isn't what it was 20 years ago either. Yes, the bright kids go on to great things but they proactively made it happen rather than waiting for it to happen. The "networking" is nothing like what some people on here might want to believe. It barely exists. If anything, it's better at UVA than Columbia.

Do you have any data to back this up?

This is directly my experience, as a lower middle class Ivy grad. In fact I think there is very little class mingling at an Ivy except for dating and maybe sports (I am not an athlete so don’t know —- it may be exceptional skill not just team membership that gives you an in?). From what I’ve seen most people are using their parents snd elite high school network (deeper relationships with shared history) and don’t need to interact with college network.

Most of the "Ivy networking" people dream of is more a function of the class of the individual than the school. A wealthy kid from NYC whose father is a connected figure in banking is the one who has "networking" access, not the run of mill Ivy student from an anonymous family. That's why a similar kid from a similar family but who went to, say, Colgate, still ends up in the same position as the Ivy peer. And all the Ivies have their quota of rich kids from connected families, whether Hollywood producers, famous DC journalists, NYC billionaires, etc, but they live unto themselves and it's a different reality for them than it is for the rest of the student body.

For the non connected kids, it's those who play sports, typically lacrosse or football, or in certain fraternities who can overcome this barrier. The sports teams or fraternities can have tightly knit networking post graduation and are intense experiences during the Ivy years where you live and spend most of your time with team mates. Which is why quite a few working class kids recruited to play sports at the Ivies end up on Wall Street. Especially lacrosse as it's a sport that recruits both rich and working class kids and has them in close proximity all the time. The working class kids learn from word of mouth and watching their richer teammates and the richer teammates often do proactively help in the networking.

The idea that there is this extended and entrenched pool of alums eager to hire grads from the same school at any time is a bit laughable. But even for the unconnected, a great value of the Ivy environment is simply being around many bright and energetic kids and learning from watching them make decisions re careers or internships or which classes leads to better careers or what their parents do and so forth. That continual exposure can be a great benefit. If you're smart enough to take advantage of it. But you have to do something about it, sitting back and waiting for something to happen to you ain't going to get you anywhere.

BOOM!!!!!! This is it!!!

[Anonymous]

There would be an online alumni directory. Log in and cold call people who have their work numbers listed. The reason they have the work number listed is because those are the people who will boost alumni. People who do not want to be called by new graduates do not list their work numbers. Your kid is OK to call people who are putting themselves out there. Often there is a recruiting bonus ($2K-$4k or something) so if possible do the calls first before submitting resume online.

Sorry the friend contacts are not working out, but your kid can still find some people willing to lend a hand (possibly for money, and not your money).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There would be an online alumni directory. Log in and cold call people who have their work numbers listed. The reason they have the work number listed is because those are the people who will boost alumni. People who do not want to be called by new graduates do not list their work numbers. Your kid is OK to call people who are putting themselves out there. Often there is a recruiting bonus ($2K-$4k or something) so if possible do the calls first before submitting resume online.

Sorry the friend contacts are not working out, but your kid can still find some people willing to lend a hand (possibly for money, and not your money).

PP here. Kid calls the contacts, not you calling the contacts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of the comments are amusing. People really, greatly, hugely, exaggerate the ability of a mere Ivy degree to get you a great job. An Ivy degree can make recruiters and hiring managers look more closely at your resume but that's it. There are plenty of Ivy grads who get nowhere. There's no quotas set aside for Ivy grads at premier investment firms and IB isn't what it was 20 years ago either. Yes, the bright kids go on to great things but they proactively made it happen rather than waiting for it to happen. The "networking" is nothing like what some people on here might want to believe. It barely exists. If anything, it's better at UVA than Columbia.

OP, the good news is that your son has a few years to figure out his life. The bad news is that he only has a few years. The next few years really are critical to his long term success. The risk is that he squanders those years ambling around without discipline. He needs to think long and hard about what he'd like to do with his life, study career options and think about which ones appeal to him. A decent way forward may be for him to get one of those BUNAC visas and work in the UK for a year, even in a pub, just to get out of the house into a different country. He can think of it as a delayed gap year. Then during the year he reviews all sorts of graduate programs and figure out what kind of generic master's he'd like that gets him into the industry appealing to him. There's solid jobs in accounting and data management that may not be sexy but with competence and being reliable and smart at it, will get him to six figure incomes quickly and even up to 200k+ as senior managers by his early 30s if he's disciplined and strategic with job hopping.

I've noticed that kids coming out of fancy colleges who aren't already on the law/medicine/STEM phD track or recruited for investment banking or consulting are often afraid of the "dullness" of 40-50 hour week corporate jobs. They sound boring, they're not "interesting," and after being a student for so long the prospect of being chained to a desk for 40-50 hours a week can be scary. But that's adulthood. Don't delay adulthood. And working in a pub for a year is a good way to quickly develop an appreciation for the dull and boring desk job!

The bolded is something that is not discussed enough. Wall Street for the most part is in secular decline. Especially post 2008.

Private Equity, Quant Finance, and Mergers & Acquisition are the only financial sector to pay BIG $$$$. But you need to make managing director.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the comments are amusing. People really, greatly, hugely, exaggerate the ability of a mere Ivy degree to get you a great job. An Ivy degree can make recruiters and hiring managers look more closely at your resume but that's it. There are plenty of Ivy grads who get nowhere. There's no quotas set aside for Ivy grads at premier investment firms and IB isn't what it was 20 years ago either. Yes, the bright kids go on to great things but they proactively made it happen rather than waiting for it to happen. The "networking" is nothing like what some people on here might want to believe. It barely exists. If anything, it's better at UVA than Columbia.

Do you have any data to back this up?

This is directly my experience, as a lower middle class Ivy grad. In fact I think there is very little class mingling at an Ivy except for dating and maybe sports (I am not an athlete so don’t know —- it may be exceptional skill not just team membership that gives you an in?). From what I’ve seen most people are using their parents snd elite high school network (deeper relationships with shared history) and don’t need to interact with college network.

Most of the "Ivy networking" people dream of is more a function of the class of the individual than the school. A wealthy kid from NYC whose father is a connected figure in banking is the one who has "networking" access, not the run of mill Ivy student from an anonymous family. That's why a similar kid from a similar family but who went to, say, Colgate, still ends up in the same position as the Ivy peer. And all the Ivies have their quota of rich kids from connected families, whether Hollywood producers, famous DC journalists, NYC billionaires, etc, but they live unto themselves and it's a different reality for them than it is for the rest of the student body.

For the non connected kids, it's those who play sports, typically lacrosse or football, or in certain fraternities who can overcome this barrier. The sports teams or fraternities can have tightly knit networking post graduation and are intense experiences during the Ivy years where you live and spend most of your time with team mates. Which is why quite a few working class kids recruited to play sports at the Ivies end up on Wall Street. Especially lacrosse as it's a sport that recruits both rich and working class kids and has them in close proximity all the time. The working class kids learn from word of mouth and watching their richer teammates and the richer teammates often do proactively help in the networking.

The idea that there is this extended and entrenched pool of alums eager to hire grads from the same school at any time is a bit laughable. But even for the unconnected, a great value of the Ivy environment is simply being around many bright and energetic kids and learning from watching them make decisions re careers or internships or which classes leads to better careers or what their parents do and so forth. That continual exposure can be a great benefit. If you're smart enough to take advantage of it. But you have to do something about it, sitting back and waiting for something to happen to you ain't going to get you anywhere.

This is the best comment I’ve ever read on this topic. I’m a middle class Ivy grad and hated every second there. My “network” never materialized. I’ve done well for myself but it never had anything to do with where I went to school. I like my job now but many of my coworkers who are just as successful as me went to public universities and I envy them. They ended up in the same place as me with half the debt and without having to deal with pretentious douches for 4 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the comments are amusing. People really, greatly, hugely, exaggerate the ability of a mere Ivy degree to get you a great job. An Ivy degree can make recruiters and hiring managers look more closely at your resume but that's it. There are plenty of Ivy grads who get nowhere. There's no quotas set aside for Ivy grads at premier investment firms and IB isn't what it was 20 years ago either. Yes, the bright kids go on to great things but they proactively made it happen rather than waiting for it to happen. The "networking" is nothing like what some people on here might want to believe. It barely exists. If anything, it's better at UVA than Columbia.

Do you have any data to back this up?

This is directly my experience, as a lower middle class Ivy grad. In fact I think there is very little class mingling at an Ivy except for dating and maybe sports (I am not an athlete so don’t know —- it may be exceptional skill not just team membership that gives you an in?). From what I’ve seen most people are using their parents snd elite high school network (deeper relationships with shared history) and don’t need to interact with college network.

The cliques at elite colleges are pretty stratified. Maybe everyone sort of parties with each other, but the rich kids, or more specifically the rich kids' parents, are not sticking their neck out to get the middle class token "friend" some plum job. There was a book a while back about Yale graduates. The lower class guy in a group of Yale friends was invited to be a groomsman at weddings and yet after college he was back to his dumpy hometown. The lower class guy ended up getting murdered in his hometown because he was selling drugs or something low class like this, while his ritzy friends were in Manhattan with plum jobs.

Meh. All the middle class HYPS athletes we know are crushing it professionally. No one has to stick their neck out much to get the Yale rower a job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the comments are amusing. People really, greatly, hugely, exaggerate the ability of a mere Ivy degree to get you a great job. An Ivy degree can make recruiters and hiring managers look more closely at your resume but that's it. There are plenty of Ivy grads who get nowhere. There's no quotas set aside for Ivy grads at premier investment firms and IB isn't what it was 20 years ago either. Yes, the bright kids go on to great things but they proactively made it happen rather than waiting for it to happen. The "networking" is nothing like what some people on here might want to believe. It barely exists. If anything, it's better at UVA than Columbia.

Do you have any data to back this up?

This is directly my experience, as a lower middle class Ivy grad. In fact I think there is very little class mingling at an Ivy except for dating and maybe sports (I am not an athlete so don’t know —- it may be exceptional skill not just team membership that gives you an in?). From what I’ve seen most people are using their parents snd elite high school network (deeper relationships with shared history) and don’t need to interact with college network.

The cliques at elite colleges are pretty stratified. Maybe everyone sort of parties with each other, but the rich kids, or more specifically the rich kids' parents, are not sticking their neck out to get the middle class token "friend" some plum job. There was a book a while back about Yale graduates. The lower class guy in a group of Yale friends was invited to be a groomsman at weddings and yet after college he was back to his dumpy hometown. The lower class guy ended up getting murdered in his hometown because he was selling drugs or something low class like this, while his ritzy friends were in Manhattan with plum jobs.

Meh. All the middle class HYPS athletes we know are crushing it professionally. No one has to stick their neck out much to get the Yale rower a job.

Rowing isn’t a middle class sport

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Meh. All the middle class HYPS athletes we know are crushing it professionally. No one has to stick their neck out much to get the Yale rower a job.

Completely delusional. It is like saying that you belong to Westwood Country Club and play golf there, live in McLean but yet you're middle class. Did you know that crew/rowing is not paid by FCPS and that parents have to pay around at least 1K (I think 2K at McLean or Langley HS) for the kid to participate? You need to get out of your own bubble.