Thank God I’m an Atheist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

This isn’t an outlier view. It’s well established that Paul was writing pastoral letters to far-flung early churches.

There are more quotes listed than Paul.

The comment stands.

Yes, quotes from the Old Testament, Exodus and Leviticus. Not from Jesus.

Jew here, just stopping by to point out that we aren't textual literalists. We have our own tradition of interpretation that puts the quotes above in a different frame within our theology. Not accusing anyone of saying differently, but don't want this to go that route.

Christian here. I think we agree then that you can’t simply take quotes out of context from anywhere in the Bible and assume you understand things.

Yes, there are centuries of religious interpretation and scholarship involved in modern religious practice (Jewish, Christian, others). Criticisms of religion based on text alone betray a misunderstanding of theology and practice.

DP. I don’t disagree. And if you (or anyone else) wants to live their lives according to these interpretation of an ancient text, that is totally fine and admirable even. The problem of course comes along when you expect others to live according to these precepts and it starts affecting the public square. I do not want nativity scenes at the town hall, or the 10 commandments, or catholic Supreme Court justices telling me I can’t have an abortion, or religious people referring to cherry picked Bible verses to push against gay rights. People make the literal words of the Bible my problem when some of their number insist on their interpretation in the public square.

Jewish PP. Agreed! 100% keep your religion out of other people's lives!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

This isn’t an outlier view. It’s well established that Paul was writing pastoral letters to far-flung early churches.

There are more quotes listed than Paul.

The comment stands.

Yes, quotes from the Old Testament, Exodus and Leviticus. Not from Jesus.

Jew here, just stopping by to point out that we aren't textual literalists. We have our own tradition of interpretation that puts the quotes above in a different frame within our theology. Not accusing anyone of saying differently, but don't want this to go that route.

Christian here. I think we agree then that you can’t simply take quotes out of context from anywhere in the Bible and assume you understand things.

Yes, there are centuries of religious interpretation and scholarship involved in modern religious practice (Jewish, Christian, others). Criticisms of religion based on text alone betray a misunderstanding of theology and practice.

I hope you guys understand how weak an argument that is: that the words don’t mean what they say.

Why can’t that be applied to any passage?

And why would God’s word be so unclear, and his intent so different from the words?

Have you ever taken an English lit course? Context is everything. You stripping something out of its context is going to lead you astray.

Lol. Yes I have taken plenty of literature courses and I don't think you ever have because context starts with the words themselves, always. You can't just say "context" and claim it means something totally opposite of the words themselves.

Hamlet is about a spaceship by that standard. And Mein Kampf about kindness to all men.

Lit teacher here (and not religious)

No, context is about where the words reside in relation to a larger text. This explanation falls very, very flat.

But you are not demonstrating the larger text! Just claiming it does so.

It starts with the words, and then the burden is on showing the “context”.

You can’t just yell “context “! Are you really a lit teacher? Would you accept that from your students? That would shock me.

DP. For the record, a Christian poster pointed out that the anti-women cites were from Paul or the Old Testament, not from Jesus, so they in no way have the same status.

I think part of the problem here is that it others don’t trust you to argue in good faith. A Jewish poster referred to centuries of religious interpretation, but she didn’t give you details, and I don’t blame her given how you ignored the Christian poster.

Jewish PP here. For context regarding Judaism and women, look at Rosh Hodesh, the monthly holiday celebrating the New Moon, which is also known as a women's holiday as a reward for women's loyalty during the Golden Calf incident. Or look up the organization JOFA (Jewish Orthodox Feminist Alliance). Or this Twitter thread about different translations of Hebrew text: https://twitter.com/AriLamm/status/1669690160760356869?t=ZfcsSpA7Q9VCXGIvhQ1ZrA&s=19. Part of that analysis goes into the meanings of the words related to Adam ruling over Eve. Or look at the midrashic stories (oral Torah) of Eve's predecessor, Lilith.

This is not exhaustive. Nor is it to say that there aren't sexist laws in Jewish theology, prayers that belittle women, or oppressive interpretations within certain branches (sects/denominations) of Judaism. My point is that religion is lived and practiced today differently than it was in Biblical times. Judaism in particular developed Rabbinic Judaism after the fall of the Temple so that the religion could continue in diaspora. Our theology today is based not just on the Tanakh, but also on Rabbinic rulings/responsa and writings in texts like Mishnah and Talmud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

This isn’t an outlier view. It’s well established that Paul was writing pastoral letters to far-flung early churches.

There are more quotes listed than Paul.

The comment stands.

Yes, quotes from the Old Testament, Exodus and Leviticus. Not from Jesus.

Jew here, just stopping by to point out that we aren't textual literalists. We have our own tradition of interpretation that puts the quotes above in a different frame within our theology. Not accusing anyone of saying differently, but don't want this to go that route.

Christian here. I think we agree then that you can’t simply take quotes out of context from anywhere in the Bible and assume you understand things.

Yes, there are centuries of religious interpretation and scholarship involved in modern religious practice (Jewish, Christian, others). Criticisms of religion based on text alone betray a misunderstanding of theology and practice.

DP. I don’t disagree. And if you (or anyone else) wants to live their lives according to these interpretation of an ancient text, that is totally fine and admirable even. The problem of course comes along when you expect others to live according to these precepts and it starts affecting the public square. I do not want nativity scenes at the town hall, or the 10 commandments, or catholic Supreme Court justices telling me I can’t have an abortion, or religious people referring to cherry picked Bible verses to push against gay rights. People make the literal words of the Bible my problem when some of their number insist on their interpretation in the public square.

Jewish PP. Agreed! 100% keep your religion out of other people's lives!

Christian pp. Also agree! Keep your religion out of other peoples' lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

This isn’t an outlier view. It’s well established that Paul was writing pastoral letters to far-flung early churches.

There are more quotes listed than Paul.

The comment stands.

Yes, quotes from the Old Testament, Exodus and Leviticus. Not from Jesus.

Jew here, just stopping by to point out that we aren't textual literalists. We have our own tradition of interpretation that puts the quotes above in a different frame within our theology. Not accusing anyone of saying differently, but don't want this to go that route.

Christian here. I think we agree then that you can’t simply take quotes out of context from anywhere in the Bible and assume you understand things.

Yes, there are centuries of religious interpretation and scholarship involved in modern religious practice (Jewish, Christian, others). Criticisms of religion based on text alone betray a misunderstanding of theology and practice.

DP. I don’t disagree. And if you (or anyone else) wants to live their lives according to these interpretation of an ancient text, that is totally fine and admirable even. The problem of course comes along when you expect others to live according to these precepts and it starts affecting the public square. I do not want nativity scenes at the town hall, or the 10 commandments, or catholic Supreme Court justices telling me I can’t have an abortion, or religious people referring to cherry picked Bible verses to push against gay rights. People make the literal words of the Bible my problem when some of their number insist on their interpretation in the public square.

Jewish PP. Agreed! 100% keep your religion out of other people's lives!

Christian pp. Also agree! Keep your religion out of other peoples' lives.

+1 million. The other problem lies in the fact that there are many fundamentalists with some dangerous and harmful thought processes that infiltrate every area of their lives, and affects people around them even in subtle ways. The mindset of being favored by a god, by feeling morally superior, etc, is something that affects people even when they don't realize it does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

This isn’t an outlier view. It’s well established that Paul was writing pastoral letters to far-flung early churches.

There are more quotes listed than Paul.

The comment stands.

Yes, quotes from the Old Testament, Exodus and Leviticus. Not from Jesus.

Jew here, just stopping by to point out that we aren't textual literalists. We have our own tradition of interpretation that puts the quotes above in a different frame within our theology. Not accusing anyone of saying differently, but don't want this to go that route.

Christian here. I think we agree then that you can’t simply take quotes out of context from anywhere in the Bible and assume you understand things.

Yes, there are centuries of religious interpretation and scholarship involved in modern religious practice (Jewish, Christian, others). Criticisms of religion based on text alone betray a misunderstanding of theology and practice.

DP. I don’t disagree. And if you (or anyone else) wants to live their lives according to these interpretation of an ancient text, that is totally fine and admirable even. The problem of course comes along when you expect others to live according to these precepts and it starts affecting the public square. I do not want nativity scenes at the town hall, or the 10 commandments, or catholic Supreme Court justices telling me I can’t have an abortion, or religious people referring to cherry picked Bible verses to push against gay rights. People make the literal words of the Bible my problem when some of their number insist on their interpretation in the public square.

Jewish PP. Agreed! 100% keep your religion out of other people's lives!

Christian pp. Also agree! Keep your religion out of other peoples' lives.

+1 million. The other problem lies in the fact that there are many fundamentalists with some dangerous and harmful thought processes that infiltrate every area of their lives, and affects people around them even in subtle ways. The mindset of being favored by a god, by feeling morally superior, etc, is something that affects people even when they don't realize it does.

Not sure they feel favored by God, etc. The problem is their beliefs, namely that they take the Bible very literally and obsess about certain passages at the expense of others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Something can be true and at the same time be warped by the human beings interpreting it.

I mean, Charles Darwin was pretty misogynistic. Does that mean that the theory of evolution was created by him and not an actual description of reality?

Darwin:

“ men attain a higher eminence, in whatever he takes up, than can women whether requiring deep thought, reason, or imagination, or merely the use of the senses and hands.”
“Man is more courageous, pugnacious and energetic than woman, and has a more inventive genius. His brain is absolutely larger . . . .”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

This isn’t an outlier view. It’s well established that Paul was writing pastoral letters to far-flung early churches.

There are more quotes listed than Paul.

The comment stands.

Yes, quotes from the Old Testament, Exodus and Leviticus. Not from Jesus.

Jew here, just stopping by to point out that we aren't textual literalists. We have our own tradition of interpretation that puts the quotes above in a different frame within our theology. Not accusing anyone of saying differently, but don't want this to go that route.

Christian here. I think we agree then that you can’t simply take quotes out of context from anywhere in the Bible and assume you understand things.

Yes, there are centuries of religious interpretation and scholarship involved in modern religious practice (Jewish, Christian, others). Criticisms of religion based on text alone betray a misunderstanding of theology and practice.

DP. I don’t disagree. And if you (or anyone else) wants to live their lives according to these interpretation of an ancient text, that is totally fine and admirable even. The problem of course comes along when you expect others to live according to these precepts and it starts affecting the public square. I do not want nativity scenes at the town hall, or the 10 commandments, or catholic Supreme Court justices telling me I can’t have an abortion, or religious people referring to cherry picked Bible verses to push against gay rights. People make the literal words of the Bible my problem when some of their number insist on their interpretation in the public square.

Jewish PP. Agreed! 100% keep your religion out of other people's lives!

Christian pp. Also agree! Keep your religion out of other peoples' lives.

+1 million. The other problem lies in the fact that there are many fundamentalists with some dangerous and harmful thought processes that infiltrate every area of their lives, and affects people around them even in subtle ways. The mindset of being favored by a god, by feeling morally superior, etc, is something that affects people even when they don't realize it does.

Not sure they feel favored by God, etc. The problem is their beliefs, namely that they take the Bible very literally and obsess about certain passages at the expense of others.

You mean like the Koran?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

This isn’t an outlier view. It’s well established that Paul was writing pastoral letters to far-flung early churches.

There are more quotes listed than Paul.

The comment stands.

Yes, quotes from the Old Testament, Exodus and Leviticus. Not from Jesus.

Jew here, just stopping by to point out that we aren't textual literalists. We have our own tradition of interpretation that puts the quotes above in a different frame within our theology. Not accusing anyone of saying differently, but don't want this to go that route.

Christian here. I think we agree then that you can’t simply take quotes out of context from anywhere in the Bible and assume you understand things.

Yes, there are centuries of religious interpretation and scholarship involved in modern religious practice (Jewish, Christian, others). Criticisms of religion based on text alone betray a misunderstanding of theology and practice.

DP. I don’t disagree. And if you (or anyone else) wants to live their lives according to these interpretation of an ancient text, that is totally fine and admirable even. The problem of course comes along when you expect others to live according to these precepts and it starts affecting the public square. I do not want nativity scenes at the town hall, or the 10 commandments, or catholic Supreme Court justices telling me I can’t have an abortion, or religious people referring to cherry picked Bible verses to push against gay rights. People make the literal words of the Bible my problem when some of their number insist on their interpretation in the public square.

Jewish PP. Agreed! 100% keep your religion out of other people's lives!

Christian pp. Also agree! Keep your religion out of other peoples' lives.

+1 million. The other problem lies in the fact that there are many fundamentalists with some dangerous and harmful thought processes that infiltrate every area of their lives, and affects people around them even in subtle ways. The mindset of being favored by a god, by feeling morally superior, etc, is something that affects people even when they don't realize it does.

Not sure they feel favored by God, etc. The problem is their beliefs, namely that they take the Bible very literally and obsess about certain passages at the expense of others.

Of course they feel "favored". There are many bible literalists that pray about everything, and truly believe that god is blessing them when things go the way they wanted, or anything good happens in their life. They believe their god actually DID THAT for them. What does that say about their attitude towards those less fortunate, or children with cancer then? You can't convince me that is a good mindset to go through life with, nor is it beneficial to society in general.

[Anonymous]

Multiple studies show that people don’t like or trust atheists. I have always wondered why that is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Multiple studies show that people don’t like or trust atheists. I have always wondered why that is?

Probable multiple reasons, and they’re not exclusive.

People are afraid of something that challenges them and some may not have the background to argue back. That’s on believers.

Atheists’ own behavior can be off-putting and unlikable. Some atheists are great. But if we had to judge atheists on the basis of DCUM’s atheists who insist on insulting believers with words like “myth” and “fairy tale,” who impersonate other posters, who always have to have the last word, or who claim to be expert on Aquinas on the basis of what they’ve read on some atheist website, well that isn’t going to go well either.

[Anonymous]

Among all the religious groups asked about, only Jews universally receive net positive ratings from all other groups. While 81% of Jews rate their own group favorably, Christians across various subgroups also rate Jews much more favorably than unfavorably. For example, 45% of Protestants who describe themselves as born-again or evangelical view Jews favorably, compared with 6% who have an unfavorable view toward Jews.

Jews are the only religious group who receive a positive rating, on balance, from atheists (+13 percentage points), aside from atheists’ ratings of their own group. Jews also are more likely to express positive than negative views toward atheists. By contrast, atheists feel overwhelmingly negative toward evangelical Christians (79% express unfavorable views, compared with 3% who express positive views). Atheists also are more negative than positive toward Catholics, mainline Protestants, Mormons and Muslims. The negative feelings are mutual when it comes to Protestants and Catholics, who give atheists net negative ratings.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2023/03/15/americans-feel-more-positive-than-negative-about-jews-mainline-protestants-catholics/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple studies show that people don’t like or trust atheists. I have always wondered why that is?

Probable multiple reasons, and they’re not exclusive.

People are afraid of something that challenges them and some may not have the background to argue back. That’s on believers.

Atheists’ own behavior can be off-putting and unlikable. Some atheists are great. But if we had to judge atheists on the basis of DCUM’s atheists who insist on insulting believers with words like “myth” and “fairy tale,” who impersonate other posters, who always have to have the last word, or who claim to be expert on Aquinas on the basis of what they’ve read on some atheist website, well that isn’t going to go well either.

You type all of these words saying how you don’t like atheists. Over and over and over again you say it. Over and over and over again you use ad hominem. But atheists never say they don’t like you. The atheists never resort to ad hominem.

Why do you think that is?

I’ll tell you why I think it is if you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple studies show that people don’t like or trust atheists. I have always wondered why that is?

Probable multiple reasons, and they’re not exclusive.

People are afraid of something that challenges them and some may not have the background to argue back. That’s on believers.

Atheists’ own behavior can be off-putting and unlikable. Some atheists are great. But if we had to judge atheists on the basis of DCUM’s atheists who insist on insulting believers with words like “myth” and “fairy tale,” who impersonate other posters, who always have to have the last word, or who claim to be expert on Aquinas on the basis of what they’ve read on some atheist website, well that isn’t going to go well either.

You type all of these words saying how you don’t like atheists. Over and over and over again you say it. Over and over and over again you use ad hominem. But atheists never say they don’t like you. The atheists never resort to ad hominem.

Why do you think that is?

I’ll tell you why I think it is if you want.

With due respect, I'm an atheist and I really don't like her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple studies show that people don’t like or trust atheists. I have always wondered why that is?

Probable multiple reasons, and they’re not exclusive.

People are afraid of something that challenges them and some may not have the background to argue back. That’s on believers.

Atheists’ own behavior can be off-putting and unlikable. Some atheists are great. But if we had to judge atheists on the basis of DCUM’s atheists who insist on insulting believers with words like “myth” and “fairy tale,” who impersonate other posters, who always have to have the last word, or who claim to be expert on Aquinas on the basis of what they’ve read on some atheist website, well that isn’t going to go well either.

You type all of these words saying how you don’t like atheists. Over and over and over again you say it. Over and over and over again you use ad hominem. But atheists never say they don’t like you. The atheists never resort to ad hominem.

Why do you think that is?

I’ll tell you why I think it is if you want.

It’s actually Pew that says it. I don’t run Pew.

Pew shows that atheists overwhelmingly are negative about religious people.

That’s what their research shows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple studies show that people don’t like or trust atheists. I have always wondered why that is?

Probable multiple reasons, and they’re not exclusive.

People are afraid of something that challenges them and some may not have the background to argue back. That’s on believers.

Atheists’ own behavior can be off-putting and unlikable. Some atheists are great. But if we had to judge atheists on the basis of DCUM’s atheists who insist on insulting believers with words like “myth” and “fairy tale,” who impersonate other posters, who always have to have the last word, or who claim to be expert on Aquinas on the basis of what they’ve read on some atheist website, well that isn’t going to go well either.

You type all of these words saying how you don’t like atheists. Over and over and over again you say it. Over and over and over again you use ad hominem. But atheists never say they don’t like you. The atheists never resort to ad hominem.

Why do you think that is?

I’ll tell you why I think it is if you want.

With due respect, I'm an atheist and I really don't like her.

Which lines up with Pew research.

Atheists don’t like religious people by a large percentage.