Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also find the gaslighting by the administration really frustrating. They are going full-steam ahead with their plan, while dismissing parent concerns. How difficult would it be to share with the parents and teachers the stats on how this has changed GPAs overall. if it hasn’t, I will stop complaining. But I suspect grades have dropped and they are refusing to tell the parents because the goal is to compress the grades at the top and raise the grades at the bottom to artificially improve equity. Everyone loses, but on paper the principal looks great. I also find it hypocritical that they say they care about mental health, but institute a system that increases stress with more tests and harsher grading. The kids who are doing better under this are those who are happy they don’t have to do the homework now. What kind of messed up system are we implementing?

Exactly what equity needs to be improved at Madison?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also find the gaslighting by the administration really frustrating. They are going full-steam ahead with their plan, while dismissing parent concerns. How difficult would it be to share with the parents and teachers the stats on how this has changed GPAs overall. if it hasn’t, I will stop complaining. But I suspect grades have dropped and they are refusing to tell the parents because the goal is to compress the grades at the top and raise the grades at the bottom to artificially improve equity. Everyone loses, but on paper the principal looks great. I also find it hypocritical that they say they care about mental health, but institute a system that increases stress with more tests and harsher grading. The kids who are doing better under this are those who are happy they don’t have to do the homework now. What kind of messed up system are we implementing?

They certainly do not care about mental health. I have a kid there and we are in the process of looking at private schools. It’s late for next year but if anyone has suggestions we are open to any.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also find the gaslighting by the administration really frustrating. They are going full-steam ahead with their plan, while dismissing parent concerns. How difficult would it be to share with the parents and teachers the stats on how this has changed GPAs overall. if it hasn’t, I will stop complaining. But I suspect grades have dropped and they are refusing to tell the parents because the goal is to compress the grades at the top and raise the grades at the bottom to artificially improve equity. Everyone loses, but on paper the principal looks great. I also find it hypocritical that they say they care about mental health, but institute a system that increases stress with more tests and harsher grading. The kids who are doing better under this are those who are happy they don’t have to do the homework now. What kind of messed up system are we implementing?

We are moving to the area and I’m having a hard time understanding this system.

How does it improve equity? Wouldn’t students with lower gpa also have a harder time with this method? What if they were middling by at the beginning of a unit but couldn’t keep up with a comprehensive assessment at the end? Wouldn’t their mediocre grades also suffer?

This is all very confusing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My issue is with the idea that some kids are eligible for retakes while others are not. I bet if kids with lower D/F grades were stuck with what they received, this system would be scrapped.

As it is, kids who do poorly get a retake and kids that do well enough don’t. This is where the gap closure happens and where fewer As happen. As with any equitable system, it’s not about providing the same tools for all, it’s about giving some kids more… mostly to supplement what someone earlier mentioned, a “parenting problem.”

If this is actually true, they would be in HUGE trouble. I doubt it is true, otherwise they'll have a bunch of state lawsuits to deal with in the current political environment.

If they allow retakes on certain assignments, they have to allow it for everyone. They can't selectively discriminate in terms of who they allow to retest.

Hard to say.

Madison states the following:
Teachers will identify in advance which summative assessments are eligible for a retake. For these assessments, at least one new opportunity to demonstrate mastery shall be provided to any student who scores below 3.4 on a 4.0 scale or 90% on the 100 point scale (less than an A-) and completes corrective action determined by the subject team. Assessments not eligible for a retake will be articulated in a teacher’s course syllabi.

Some posts ITT imply that it’s like that as well, but maybe not as decisive as the statement I included.

A-/90% is fine, that seems reasonable to me. But honestly it's easy to just allow everyone to retake the ones that the teacher selects to protect against possible lawsuits. It would not change outcomes at the top as many of the A- students would not think it's worth their time to retake to change from A- to A. Logistically it's also easy, there's no reason to exclude a few A- and above, as even if they retake and get an A, it's only good for the school as their overall grade is a bit higher.

I don’t have a kid at Madison, but have two at other FCPS schools. Few teachers allow re-takes, but if they do, it’s only for those scoring below 80 and the max new score is 80. This really needs to be standardized across FCPS schools. People claim that UVA only compares a student to those within their school, but then they also say that if a student doesn’t have a 4.4 UVA is not happening. It’s a heck of a lot easier to have a 4.4 if your school allows new re-take grades up to 90% than if your school allows re-take grades 10 percentage points higher.

[Anonymous]

We are moving to the area and I’m having a hard time understanding this system.

How does it improve equity? Wouldn’t students with lower gpa also have a harder time with this method? What if they were middling by at the beginning of a unit but couldn’t keep up with a comprehensive assessment at the end? Wouldn’t their mediocre grades also suffer?

This is all very confusing.

It's not really about addressing equity. It's about hiding the disparity by making it look like there is not an achievement gap. Less Ds and Fs make it look like the school is succeeding in addressing failing disadvantaged students which makes the school administration look good by FCPS standards.

My kids' grades are going up now by a letter grade. The grades for 4th quarter are being replaced with better grades to show upward trend. Many parents are telling me this is happening with their kids' grades. So year started off normal, 2nd/3rd quarter looked like grade deflation - kids confused, upset, depressed, didn't understand why they had grades they did, then grades improving by letter grade for 4th quarter as other grades are dropped, kids relieved, happy.

Would rather just have no grades than this farce. I hear about cheat sheets allowed for exams and tests suddenly becoming easier at end of year. What are we doing? Where are we headed? Test optional and fake grades. I'm scared of what this country is going to be like in 20 years if we stay on this path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also find the gaslighting by the administration really frustrating. They are going full-steam ahead with their plan, while dismissing parent concerns. How difficult would it be to share with the parents and teachers the stats on how this has changed GPAs overall. if it hasn’t, I will stop complaining. But I suspect grades have dropped and they are refusing to tell the parents because the goal is to compress the grades at the top and raise the grades at the bottom to artificially improve equity. Everyone loses, but on paper the principal looks great. I also find it hypocritical that they say they care about mental health, but institute a system that increases stress with more tests and harsher grading. The kids who are doing better under this are those who are happy they don’t have to do the homework now. What kind of messed up system are we implementing?

We are moving to the area and I’m having a hard time understanding this system.

How does it improve equity? Wouldn’t students with lower gpa also have a harder time with this method? What if they were middling by at the beginning of a unit but couldn’t keep up with a comprehensive assessment at the end? Wouldn’t their mediocre grades also suffer?

This is all very confusing.

Yes. It’s confusing for all of us. In the PP looking at private schools and my DC has one of the lower GPAs and an IEP. It’s not about equity unless it’s about confusion and stress for all.

[Anonymous]

Yes. It’s confusing for all of us. In the PP looking at private schools and my DC has one of the lower GPAs and an IEP. It’s not about equity unless it’s about confusion and stress for all.

I feel like pulling my kids too, but I'm going to try to do what I can to push back on this. Contact your SB member, Meren is aware of this issue. Contact instructional services - [e-mail]. Ask about this high school assessment & grading survey. FCPA has had meetings with Reid on lack of consistency in grading across FCPS and "equity grading." Reid has mentioned starting a committee to look into it. Consider emailing Reid directly. Show up at PTSA meetings and ask questions. I feel like giving up and going private too, but this is my community, my kids were happy here, I'm going to try to do what I can.

But I hear you. It was really hard for me to hear Calvert say this year was a disaster at principal chat because it's 25% of my kids' high school education. Another year and that's half. It's unbelievable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My issue is with the idea that some kids are eligible for retakes while others are not. I bet if kids with lower D/F grades were stuck with what they received, this system would be scrapped.

As it is, kids who do poorly get a retake and kids that do well enough don’t. This is where the gap closure happens and where fewer As happen. As with any equitable system, it’s not about providing the same tools for all, it’s about giving some kids more… mostly to supplement what someone earlier mentioned, a “parenting problem.”

If this is actually true, they would be in HUGE trouble. I doubt it is true, otherwise they'll have a bunch of state lawsuits to deal with in the current political environment.

If they allow retakes on certain assignments, they have to allow it for everyone. They can't selectively discriminate in terms of who they allow to retest.

Hard to say.

Madison states the following:
Teachers will identify in advance which summative assessments are eligible for a retake. For these assessments, at least one new opportunity to demonstrate mastery shall be provided to any student who scores below 3.4 on a 4.0 scale or 90% on the 100 point scale (less than an A-) and completes corrective action determined by the subject team. Assessments not eligible for a retake will be articulated in a teacher’s course syllabi.

Some posts ITT imply that it’s like that as well, but maybe not as decisive as the statement I included.

A-/90% is fine, that seems reasonable to me. But honestly it's easy to just allow everyone to retake the ones that the teacher selects to protect against possible lawsuits. It would not change outcomes at the top as many of the A- students would not think it's worth their time to retake to change from A- to A. Logistically it's also easy, there's no reason to exclude a few A- and above, as even if they retake and get an A, it's only good for the school as their overall grade is a bit higher.

I don’t have a kid at Madison, but have two at other FCPS schools. Few teachers allow re-takes, but if they do, it’s only for those scoring below 80 and the max new score is 80. This really needs to be standardized across FCPS schools. People claim that UVA only compares a student to those within their school, but then they also say that if a student doesn’t have a 4.4 UVA is not happening. It’s a heck of a lot easier to have a 4.4 if your school allows new re-take grades up to 90% than if your school allows re-take grades 10 percentage points higher.

Our FCPS high school imposed retakes up to 100% this year.
I have C students who memorize the patterns in the test and retake and end up with an A. And they are still C students despite that A in the class, because I have to again and again reexplain concepts to them that we learned earlier in the year and they never fully understood or retained. But they think they're in great shape for the hardest level up from my class because of that A.
I have lots of students who blow off the test, literally saying "I'm not really prepared but I'll just do the retake." And then I have the kids who got an A- but want an A who retake for an extra 3%.

[Anonymous]

Equity in action. Create confusion so you get the predetermined outcome that everyone is the same - average.

FCPS is trying to find the “best” and “fastest” way to this outcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

We are moving to the area and I’m having a hard time understanding this system.

How does it improve equity? Wouldn’t students with lower gpa also have a harder time with this method? What if they were middling by at the beginning of a unit but couldn’t keep up with a comprehensive assessment at the end? Wouldn’t their mediocre grades also suffer?

This is all very confusing.

It's not really about addressing equity. It's about hiding the disparity by making it look like there is not an achievement gap. Less Ds and Fs make it look like the school is succeeding in addressing failing disadvantaged students which makes the school administration look good by FCPS standards.

My kids' grades are going up now by a letter grade. The grades for 4th quarter are being replaced with better grades to show upward trend. Many parents are telling me this is happening with their kids' grades. So year started off normal, 2nd/3rd quarter looked like grade deflation - kids confused, upset, depressed, didn't understand why they had grades they did, then grades improving by letter grade for 4th quarter as other grades are dropped, kids relieved, happy.

Would rather just have no grades than this farce. I hear about cheat sheets allowed for exams and tests suddenly becoming easier at end of year. What are we doing? Where are we headed? Test optional and fake grades. I'm scared of what this country is going to be like in 20 years if we stay on this path.

I know you are making a different point, but in and of themselves there is nothing wrong with cheat sheets. I have used them for incredibly difficult exams in both HS and college. If you handwrite your own it helps you absorb the material. And the test can still be made challenging

[Anonymous]

This thread makes zero sense. One person says their kid gets A's and then is forced to retake tests and gets a lower grade and the A is replaced or dropped. Another person says kids can just keep taking re-tests until they memorize enough to get an A. How can both things be true?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread makes zero sense. One person says their kid gets A's and then is forced to retake tests and gets a lower grade and the A is replaced or dropped. Another person says kids can just keep taking re-tests until they memorize enough to get an A. How can both things be true?

As others have said, implementation has been very uneven. This is the first year of the new system, so it will take time to work out the kinks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread makes zero sense. One person says their kid gets A's and then is forced to retake tests and gets a lower grade and the A is replaced or dropped. Another person says kids can just keep taking re-tests until they memorize enough to get an A. How can both things be true?

The test retake policy isn’t the same across FCPS schools and is a separate issue from skills-based grading. One school may only allow retake if student scores 80 or below, another 90 or below and another anything below 100. But retake policy/late work policy can also vary by teacher within a school. The skills-based grading is separate issue from that and involves testing skills/dropping & replacing grades. But that’s not done consistently either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread makes zero sense. One person says their kid gets A's and then is forced to retake tests and gets a lower grade and the A is replaced or dropped. Another person says kids can just keep taking re-tests until they memorize enough to get an A. How can both things be true?

The test retake policy isn’t the same across FCPS schools and is a separate issue from skills-based grading. One school may only allow retake if student scores 80 or below, another 90 or below and another anything below 100. But retake policy/late work policy can also vary by teacher within a school. The skills-based grading is separate issue from that and involves testing skills/dropping & replacing grades. But that’s not done consistently either.

And other schools or even classes at Madison allow zero retakes. It's all teacher dependent which is ridiculous for a high school level where these grades get sent to colleges. I can't for the life of me understand why FCPS can't just have an across the board policy at all schools for grading.

[Anonymous]

Ideally a method shared by the rest of the state although I'd settle for just FCPS.