UVA with Jefferson Scholarship vs Harvard

[Anonymous]

In my view, Harvard will top UVA - Jefferson Scholarship for immediate attention and credit. You will just have to assess how much that is worth given the cost differential. The Jefferson Scholarship (and other similar scholarships at other universities) are intended to attract students who would otherwise go to Ivy League types of schools.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is Harvard worth the difference? DC would major in business at UVA and economics at Harvard.

A scholar studies a trade subject such as business? How many Jefferson scholars end up studying business at UVA?

UVA has an exceptionally strong Econ department

No, it doesn't. The Econ department is ranked in the 30s for graduate studies, and in the 40s for research productivity of the professors.

Without looking it up, what are the criteria your cited ranking uses?

This. https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/university-of-virginia-main-campus/academic-life/academic-majors/social-sciences/economics/#rankings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Harvard worth the difference? DC would major in business at UVA and economics at Harvard.

A scholar studies a trade subject such as business? How many Jefferson scholars end up studying business at UVA?

UVA has an exceptionally strong Econ department

No, it doesn't. The Econ department is ranked in the 30s for graduate studies, and in the 40s for research productivity of the professors.

Without looking it up, what are the criteria your cited ranking uses?

This. https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/university-of-virginia-main-campus/academic-life/academic-majors/social-sciences/economics/#rankings

In other words, you don't know. Not a good way to make decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Harvard worth the difference? DC would major in business at UVA and economics at Harvard.

A scholar studies a trade subject such as business? How many Jefferson scholars end up studying business at UVA?

UVA has an exceptionally strong Econ department

No, it doesn't. The Econ department is ranked in the 30s for graduate studies, and in the 40s for research productivity of the professors.

Without looking it up, what are the criteria your cited ranking uses?

This. https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/university-of-virginia-main-campus/academic-life/academic-majors/social-sciences/economics/#rankings

In other words, you don't know. Not a good way to make decisions.

I do know. My DD was an Econ major and went to Wall Street. I gave you the link to the ranking of UVA's Econ program, which is what you asked for

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Harvard worth the difference? DC would major in business at UVA and economics at Harvard.

A scholar studies a trade subject such as business? How many Jefferson scholars end up studying business at UVA?

UVA has an exceptionally strong Econ department

No, it doesn't. The Econ department is ranked in the 30s for graduate studies, and in the 40s for research productivity of the professors.

Without looking it up, what are the criteria your cited ranking uses?

This. https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/university-of-virginia-main-campus/academic-life/academic-majors/social-sciences/economics/#rankings

In other words, you don't know. Not a good way to make decisions.

I do know. My DD was an Econ major and went to Wall Street. I gave you the link to the ranking of UVA's Econ program, which is what you asked for

You need to read more carefully. I asked you to, without looking it up, name the criteria those rankings use. Millions of people (you included apparently) use rankings without even understanding how they were generated. Again, it's a poor way to make decisions.

[Anonymous]

This is a gut decision. Your DC makes it. You have the money. You said either was possible.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different point of view to consider....

Map out a potential 4 yr plan for two programs.

An Economics degree at Harvard will be a different experience than a degree from a Business school program (at any university). Business schools will require pre-professional courses in Accounting, Finance, Operations, Bus Law, Marketing etc and that will include case studies and group project work. A liberal arts economics degree will focus more on topics, theories, applications and can be supplemented with quantitative analyses in econometrics etc. are will likely have more room (freed by not taking business core) for studying other liberal arts, math, or science courses.

Both are useful degrees (even if the intended career is business) but functionally they present themselves differently in the "process" of getting to the final degree.

If the intended career is business, is it better to just go to UVA that actually has a business program? For example, if Wall Street isn't the goal, will an economics degree be as useful as a business degree?

The economics degree may or may not be as useful, but the Harvard name on the resume is definitely going to be more useful in getting interviews and jobs at high-paying companies, whether at Wall Street or outside.

Students who were admissible to Harvard but turned down due to lack of space will have the same opportunities in life as those who were admitted.

No, they won't, and to say so is a feel-good lie.

This is not comparing UVA to Vanderbilt or even Duke. This is comparing UVA to a school that is widely considered the most prestigious university in the world.

Look at the number of presidents and Supreme Court justices with degrees from Harvard, whether undergrad, graduate or professional. Compare that with UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different point of view to consider....

Map out a potential 4 yr plan for two programs.

An Economics degree at Harvard will be a different experience than a degree from a Business school program (at any university). Business schools will require pre-professional courses in Accounting, Finance, Operations, Bus Law, Marketing etc and that will include case studies and group project work. A liberal arts economics degree will focus more on topics, theories, applications and can be supplemented with quantitative analyses in econometrics etc. are will likely have more room (freed by not taking business core) for studying other liberal arts, math, or science courses.

Both are useful degrees (even if the intended career is business) but functionally they present themselves differently in the "process" of getting to the final degree.

If the intended career is business, is it better to just go to UVA that actually has a business program? For example, if Wall Street isn't the goal, will an economics degree be as useful as a business degree?

The economics degree may or may not be as useful, but the Harvard name on the resume is definitely going to be more useful in getting interviews and jobs at high-paying companies, whether at Wall Street or outside.

Students who were admissible to Harvard but turned down due to lack of space will have the same opportunities in life as those who were admitted.

HHI contribute more to society than the average middle income, whether in taxes or donations. Let's not act like everyone making middle-income is a nurse, fire fighter, or school teacher. The vast majority of them are corporate grunts, low level managers or low-level government bureaucrats.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:UVA Business is not guranteed

For a Jefferson Scholar it is all but guaranteed. Being a Jefferson Scholar is a very big deal at UVA

McIntire is not going to accept an applicant with C's in their transcript and a 3.0 because of their high school performance, which is what the Jefferson Scholar is based on.

um show me a Jefferson Scholar with Cs on their transcript or a 3.0...they aren't just some scrub kids who party and don't study. They are literally the cream of the crop UVA student. Pretty sure something very dramatic will have to happen for them to suddenly not be able to perform in college. And yes, if that happens, they likely won't get into McIntire. It would be a tremendous fall from grace for a Jefferson Scholar to fall flat.

Something dramatic could happen. Students need to excel at UVA to get into McIntire. Doing well is not good enough.

Meanwhile getting a passing grade at Harvard is sufficient.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:How much is the different? 300k?

If you have it saved up for college, yes Harvard is worth the difference given your kid is a go-getter and takes advantage of the opportunities presented by Harvard.

If its loans, how much loan? $100k may be reasonable if your child is majoring in CS, but not reasonable at all if wanting to go to graduate school or majoring in the humanities with no interest in consulting or finance.

And by opportunities presented at Harvard, I don't mean networking with future politicians or titans of industry. Those doors are generally entirely closed to anyone other than the wealthy and already well-connected. I'm talking about practical benefits like recruitment from elite finance/consulting/tech firms. Tech is more meritocratic but Harvard brand still holds quite a sway, especially in algorithmic trading firms.

A student at Harvard with a 3.0 in History with no impressive extracurriculars would get invited for elite consulting/finance firms while the same student at UVA would need a 3.8+ GPA from McIntire to even get a preliminary interview. Many elite firms don't even recruit at UVA.

This is so, so true. All the finance guys I know from Harvard studied Government, History, and even Art History. One was busted cheating on a test and Harvard put him on probation for a year and made him graduate one year late. All of them went on to very well-paid careers in finance, no need to take a break for an MBA. They made partner at Goldman, became lead traders, went into buy-side, or private equity. They are now starting to retire in their mid-40s.

It's a f#cking racket.

The saying that the college does not matter or that it only matters for the first job is such a lie.

Yeah, it does not matter if you want an average life with a 9-5 making $70k a year and a mountain of mortgage, bills and future college tuition to worry about.

If you want to be wealthy, work at elite firms, work in upper management or comfortably retire in your early 40s or even 30s, certain colleges make those doors wide open for you. With most colleges, you have a better chance of winning the lottery than achieving such outcomes.

C'mon, man. You can't just make stuff up and expect people to believe you.

Here's where the CEOs of 100 recognizable US companies went to college.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/business/

Here's the upper management at top biotech firms.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/biotech-pharma/

And top tech firms.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/lists/tech/

This doesn’t seem to say what you think is says. For tech companies,

“Over all 10 companies, 23% of those who did complete their undergraduate studies in the US attended MC25 colleges, which is a bit lower than the percentage in most of the fields listed.”

I would say that having nearly a quarter of your management coming from 25 colleges is impressive from a numbers standpoint. It’s possible to get there from a non t25 school but it is far more helpful to have gone to a t25 school. And tech is the field where it is least helpful.

But it's not because they went to the 't25' school' that they got where they are. It's because of who they are as a person. Why are successful people so willing to ascribe their success to something other than their own awesomeness, which can be nurtured at hundreds of schools rather than just the few so many seem to think are critical to future success? The top students at lower-ranked colleges, those who are just as capable as the few who were admitted to the 't25', achieve just as highly despite the 'handicap' you seem to think they have.

There's likely not much difference between most T25 and the better state flagships.

But HYPSM are in a different tier to the rest of the T25. I'd argue the rest of the Ivies are also in a different tier compared to the rest of the T25 regardless of rankings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different point of view to consider....

Map out a potential 4 yr plan for two programs.

An Economics degree at Harvard will be a different experience than a degree from a Business school program (at any university). Business schools will require pre-professional courses in Accounting, Finance, Operations, Bus Law, Marketing etc and that will include case studies and group project work. A liberal arts economics degree will focus more on topics, theories, applications and can be supplemented with quantitative analyses in econometrics etc. are will likely have more room (freed by not taking business core) for studying other liberal arts, math, or science courses.

Both are useful degrees (even if the intended career is business) but functionally they present themselves differently in the "process" of getting to the final degree.

If the intended career is business, is it better to just go to UVA that actually has a business program? For example, if Wall Street isn't the goal, will an economics degree be as useful as a business degree?

The economics degree may or may not be as useful, but the Harvard name on the resume is definitely going to be more useful in getting interviews and jobs at high-paying companies, whether at Wall Street or outside.

Students who were admissible to Harvard but turned down due to lack of space will have the same opportunities in life as those who were admitted.

No, they won't, and to say so is a feel-good lie.

This is not comparing UVA to Vanderbilt or even Duke. This is comparing UVA to a school that is widely considered the most prestigious university in the world.

Look at the number of presidents and Supreme Court justices with degrees from Harvard, whether undergrad, graduate or professional. Compare that with UVA.

Not a good example. POTUS is hired by an HR team (we, the people) that's significantly less well-informed about what it takes to be successful in the job than any professional HR team. And SCOTUS is selected by folks who are trying to please that same HR team.

Regardless, I'm not saying there aren't a ridiculous number of Harvard grads who are highly qualified for the top jobs in the country. Harvard gets first pick of the smartest, most ambitious high school students in the country, so of course they're going to have more than their fair share of high achievers. But the levels of attainment of their grads is due to who those individuals already were when they arrived in Cambridge, not to any superiority of the education they received while there to that received by those in Charlottesville.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different point of view to consider....

Map out a potential 4 yr plan for two programs.

An Economics degree at Harvard will be a different experience than a degree from a Business school program (at any university). Business schools will require pre-professional courses in Accounting, Finance, Operations, Bus Law, Marketing etc and that will include case studies and group project work. A liberal arts economics degree will focus more on topics, theories, applications and can be supplemented with quantitative analyses in econometrics etc. are will likely have more room (freed by not taking business core) for studying other liberal arts, math, or science courses.

Both are useful degrees (even if the intended career is business) but functionally they present themselves differently in the "process" of getting to the final degree.

If the intended career is business, is it better to just go to UVA that actually has a business program? For example, if Wall Street isn't the goal, will an economics degree be as useful as a business degree?

The economics degree may or may not be as useful, but the Harvard name on the resume is definitely going to be more useful in getting interviews and jobs at high-paying companies, whether at Wall Street or outside.

Students who were admissible to Harvard but turned down due to lack of space will have the same opportunities in life as those who were admitted.

No, they won't, and to say so is a feel-good lie.

This is not comparing UVA to Vanderbilt or even Duke. This is comparing UVA to a school that is widely considered the most prestigious university in the world.

Look at the number of presidents and Supreme Court justices with degrees from Harvard, whether undergrad, graduate or professional. Compare that with UVA.

Not a good example. POTUS is hired by an HR team (we, the people) that's significantly less well-informed about what it takes to be successful in the job than any professional HR team. And SCOTUS is selected by folks who are trying to please that same HR team.

Regardless, I'm not saying there aren't a ridiculous number of Harvard grads who are highly qualified for the top jobs in the country. Harvard gets first pick of the smartest, most ambitious high school students in the country, so of course they're going to have more than their fair share of high achievers. But the levels of attainment of their grads is due to who those individuals already were when they arrived in Cambridge, not to any superiority of the education they received while there to that received by those in Charlottesville.

It's not due to some superiority of education at Harvard, although the education at Harvard is likely superior to UVA.

It's because of the cachet that comes with the Harvard degree. That's simply how it is. People view Harvard grads as qualified, intelligent and credible. That's simply how it is, regardless of whether that's true or not. There's nothing you can do to change that, so take advantage of it when the door to Harvard is wide open.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Harvard worth the difference? DC would major in business at UVA and economics at Harvard.

A scholar studies a trade subject such as business? How many Jefferson scholars end up studying business at UVA?

UVA has an exceptionally strong Econ department

No, it doesn't. The Econ department is ranked in the 30s for graduate studies, and in the 40s for research productivity of the professors.

Without looking it up, what are the criteria your cited ranking uses?

This. https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/university-of-virginia-main-campus/academic-life/academic-majors/social-sciences/economics/#rankings

In other words, you don't know. Not a good way to make decisions.

I do know. My DD was an Econ major and went to Wall Street. I gave you the link to the ranking of UVA's Econ program, which is what you asked for

You need to read more carefully. I asked you to, without looking it up, name the criteria those rankings use. Millions of people (you included apparently) use rankings without even understanding how they were generated. Again, it's a poor way to make decisions.

You aren’t worth the time to respond to. Go take your need to split hairs and argue somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Harvard worth the difference? DC would major in business at UVA and economics at Harvard.

A scholar studies a trade subject such as business? How many Jefferson scholars end up studying business at UVA?

UVA has an exceptionally strong Econ department

No, it doesn't. The Econ department is ranked in the 30s for graduate studies, and in the 40s for research productivity of the professors.

Without looking it up, what are the criteria your cited ranking uses?

This. https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/university-of-virginia-main-campus/academic-life/academic-majors/social-sciences/economics/#rankings

In other words, you don't know. Not a good way to make decisions.

I do know. My DD was an Econ major and went to Wall Street. I gave you the link to the ranking of UVA's Econ program, which is what you asked for

You need to read more carefully. I asked you to, without looking it up, name the criteria those rankings use. Millions of people (you included apparently) use rankings without even understanding how they were generated. Again, it's a poor way to make decisions.

You aren’t worth the time to respond to. Go take your need to split hairs and argue somewhere else.

Just trying to help. But okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Harvard worth the difference? DC would major in business at UVA and economics at Harvard.

A scholar studies a trade subject such as business? How many Jefferson scholars end up studying business at UVA?

UVA has an exceptionally strong Econ department

No, it doesn't. The Econ department is ranked in the 30s for graduate studies, and in the 40s for research productivity of the professors.

Without looking it up, what are the criteria your cited ranking uses?

This. https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/university-of-virginia-main-campus/academic-life/academic-majors/social-sciences/economics/#rankings

In other words, you don't know. Not a good way to make decisions.

I do know. My DD was an Econ major and went to Wall Street. I gave you the link to the ranking of UVA's Econ program, which is what you asked for

You need to read more carefully. I asked you to, without looking it up, name the criteria those rankings use. Millions of people (you included apparently) use rankings without even understanding how they were generated. Again, it's a poor way to make decisions.

You aren’t worth the time to respond to. Go take your need to split hairs and argue somewhere else.

Just trying to help. But okay.

Please. You’re not trying to help anyone.