Has your first choice school changed since you started applications?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Having a Latin grandparent and still being white passing is not diversity. That kid doesn’t experience life and adversity as your average brown kid. It’s disingenuous. These schools be advertising 50% POC but it looks more like 20%.

So by this measure is biracial child who “passes” as white is not “diverse”? Do they need to prove they experience adversity due to skin color to be counted?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a Latin grandparent and still being white passing is not diversity. That kid doesn’t experience life and adversity as your average brown kid. It’s disingenuous. These schools be advertising 50% POC but it looks more like 20%.

I’m the PP and I agree. This is not what I meant by White diversity. In the case you present that child would have the option of checking off something other than White if they chose to be disingenuous. Non Spanish speaking White diverse ethnic groups do not.

They can check off whatever they want but schools should show the actual demographics and not lump in all non-white as POC. Show me the the brown students by each category. If I’m looking at the school as a black parent, I would like to know if the school is 5% black and otherwise 30% other non-white. It makes a huge difference. I’m unsure how much I can rely on Niche.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a Latin grandparent and still being white passing is not diversity. That kid doesn’t experience life and adversity as your average brown kid. It’s disingenuous. These schools be advertising 50% POC but it looks more like 20%.

I’m the PP and I agree. This is not what I meant by White diversity. In the case you present that child would have the option of checking off something other than White if they chose to be disingenuous. Non Spanish speaking White diverse ethnic groups do not.

During the 1930 census Mexican’s were recorded as their own race. They fought against it because they wanted to be white and by the 1940 census they where white.

[Anonymous]

This thread has really veered off topic!

[Anonymous]

NP: I'm white, spouse Asian. DS definitely gets asked questions like "so, what are you?" at school sometimes and we've had a number of conversations with him about how to handle those situations constructively. He doesn't seem too phased by it, but at the same time usually when a situation like this comes up he wonders allowed why he has to answer so much or why other kids don't get asked that as much as he does.

It clearly bothers him to some degree, but there is no question he doesn't experience discrimination and adversity the way a more obviously black or brown person would, or even on par with a full Asian person (like my spouse, the difference between the type of service/response/accommodation we receive at stores/restaurants/etc. when I'm the one making the ask is quite stark... and similarly in our professional environments). So saying he's a personal of color does seem a bit disingenous, but he's also not "passing as white" (especially in situations where it might be advantageous if he could) so and it would be similarly disingenuous to equate his experience as those of white kids.

So if you want to reduce things to as simple of a binary metric as a POC vs. white that's fine, but it's going to leave out a lot of information. Even something as simple as reporting the % POC (Black, Indigenous, Latinx) and % white, but not forcing them to add up to 100% is useful... leaves space in the middle for Asian, multiracial, and other people whose experience in our society falls somewhere between the two extremes of white and POC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP: I'm white, spouse Asian. DS definitely gets asked questions like "so, what are you?" at school sometimes and we've had a number of conversations with him about how to handle those situations constructively. He doesn't seem too phased by it, but at the same time usually when a situation like this comes up he wonders allowed why he has to answer so much or why other kids don't get asked that as much as he does.

It clearly bothers him to some degree, but there is no question he doesn't experience discrimination and adversity the way a more obviously black or brown person would, or even on par with a full Asian person (like my spouse, the difference between the type of service/response/accommodation we receive at stores/restaurants/etc. when I'm the one making the ask is quite stark... and similarly in our professional environments). So saying he's a personal of color does seem a bit disingenous, but he's also not "passing as white" (especially in situations where it might be advantageous if he could) so and it would be similarly disingenuous to equate his experience as those of white kids.

So if you want to reduce things to as simple of a binary metric as a POC vs. white that's fine, but it's going to leave out a lot of information. Even something as simple as reporting the % POC (Black, Indigenous, Latinx) and % white, but not forcing them to add up to 100% is useful... leaves space in the middle for Asian, multiracial, and other people whose experience in our society falls somewhere between the two extremes of white and POC.

Exactly. This sums up my sentiment perfectly. Thank you. Both you and your son seem lovely and I’m sure any school is lucky to have you.

-black mom

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP: I'm white, spouse Asian. DS definitely gets asked questions like "so, what are you?" at school sometimes and we've had a number of conversations with him about how to handle those situations constructively. He doesn't seem too phased by it, but at the same time usually when a situation like this comes up he wonders allowed why he has to answer so much or why other kids don't get asked that as much as he does.

It clearly bothers him to some degree, but there is no question he doesn't experience discrimination and adversity the way a more obviously black or brown person would, or even on par with a full Asian person (like my spouse, the difference between the type of service/response/accommodation we receive at stores/restaurants/etc. when I'm the one making the ask is quite stark... and similarly in our professional environments). So saying he's a personal of color does seem a bit disingenous, but he's also not "passing as white" (especially in situations where it might be advantageous if he could) so and it would be similarly disingenuous to equate his experience as those of white kids.

So if you want to reduce things to as simple of a binary metric as a POC vs. white that's fine, but it's going to leave out a lot of information. Even something as simple as reporting the % POC (Black, Indigenous, Latinx) and % white, but not forcing them to add up to 100% is useful... leaves space in the middle for Asian, multiracial, and other people whose experience in our society falls somewhere between the two extremes of white and POC.

I don't think that's what the Black mom was getting at, if I can chime in here. The newish POC moniker is actually damaging because it lumps the groups in as one and the Black experience, for example, is STARK/DISTINCTIVELY different compared to other POC, in America, hence newer terms like BIPOC. (Black Indegious and People of Color)

The concern is social isolation and children feeling culturally comfortable knowing there are others from similar background and cultural experiences in their classes and on campus.

And know that there is lots of research that says "white passing, mixed and racially ambiguous kids are able to easier fit in, and assimilate in White society because of their proximity to whiteness. They stand out less, are accepted more and deemed less threatening, and there is less "otherness" to them in the eyes of classmates, teachers, administration.

Thus, if a school advertises 20% POC in a class as part of their their diversity numbers and a parent signs up without visiting because of Covid restrictions or distance, for example, to only realize after enrolling that there is 0 obviously black and 0 obviously hispanic kids in that 20%, then that parent might have set up their child to feel culturally isolated.

If anyone questions whether this really is that Big of a deal or concern, ask yourself if you would want to go to school for 4-12 years when you are the only White person or only person for your answer. Or check the Black At Instagram pages to see why it can be an issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread has really veered off topic!

You think so?

Sounds like very VALID issues non-White may choose to change their first choice school. It really hasn't veered at all. Sounds like you're just uncomfortable. Leave, or stay and learn something, become more knowledgeable and aware of life outside your bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP: I'm white, spouse Asian. DS definitely gets asked questions like "so, what are you?" at school sometimes and we've had a number of conversations with him about how to handle those situations constructively. He doesn't seem too phased by it, but at the same time usually when a situation like this comes up he wonders allowed why he has to answer so much or why other kids don't get asked that as much as he does.

It clearly bothers him to some degree, but there is no question he doesn't experience discrimination and adversity the way a more obviously black or brown person would, or even on par with a full Asian person (like my spouse, the difference between the type of service/response/accommodation we receive at stores/restaurants/etc. when I'm the one making the ask is quite stark... and similarly in our professional environments). So saying he's a personal of color does seem a bit disingenous, but he's also not "passing as white" (especially in situations where it might be advantageous if he could) so and it would be similarly disingenuous to equate his experience as those of white kids.

So if you want to reduce things to as simple of a binary metric as a POC vs. white that's fine, but it's going to leave out a lot of information. Even something as simple as reporting the % POC (Black, Indigenous, Latinx) and % white, but not forcing them to add up to 100% is useful... leaves space in the middle for Asian, multiracial, and other people whose experience in our society falls somewhere between the two extremes of white and POC.

I don't think that's what the Black mom was getting at, if I can chime in here. The newish POC moniker is actually damaging because it lumps the groups in as one and the Black experience, for example, is STARK/DISTINCTIVELY different compared to other POC, in America, hence newer terms like BIPOC. (Black Indegious and People of Color)

The concern is social isolation and children feeling culturally comfortable knowing there are others from similar background and cultural experiences in their classes and on campus.

And know that there is lots of research that says "white passing, mixed and racially ambiguous kids are able to easier fit in, and assimilate in White society because of their proximity to whiteness. They stand out less, are accepted more and deemed less threatening, and there is less "otherness" to them in the eyes of classmates, teachers, administration.

Thus, if a school advertises 20% POC in a class as part of their their diversity numbers and a parent signs up without visiting because of Covid restrictions or distance, for example, to only realize after enrolling that there is 0 obviously black and 0 obviously hispanic kids in that 20%, then that parent might have set up their child to feel culturally isolated.

If anyone questions whether this really is that Big of a deal or concern, ask yourself if you would want to go to school for 4-12 years when you are the only White person or only person for your answer. Or check the Black At Instagram pages to see why it can be an issue.

I think it's completely fair to ask straight out "how many kids will look like my son? How many teachers will my daughter see that are ___."

Also, good things to keep in mind when attending accepted students events.

[Anonymous]

I think it's interesting that the schools get criticized for wanting only "visible" diversity and then schools and families get criticized if their diversity isn't "visible enough."

There are of course real concerns and real DEI needs.

There should be room for both visible diversity and less visible diversity (race/background/socioeconomic/family structure/life experience).

I would hope the schools are looking at the whole picture.

That all being said, I think it's totally appropriate for this to be a contributing factor when considering which school to send your child to.

[Anonymous]

(And know that there is lots of research that says "white passing, mixed and racially ambiguous kids are able to easier fit in, and assimilate in White society because of their proximity to whiteness. They stand out less, are accepted more and deemed less threatening, and there is less "otherness" to them in the eyes of classmates, teachers, administration. )

This from above is disturbing. You really think people find black children at private schools threatening or “other” here in DC? Not being snarky. I find this very upsetting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:(And know that there is lots of research that says "white passing, mixed and racially ambiguous kids are able to easier fit in, and assimilate in White society because of their proximity to whiteness. They stand out less, are accepted more and deemed less threatening, and there is less "otherness" to them in the eyes of classmates, teachers, administration. )

This from above is disturbing. You really think people find black children at private schools threatening or “other” here in DC? Not being snarky. I find this very upsetting.

Not necessarily threatening, violently, more like having the burden of all of the negative stereotypes associated with the race, (thought of as being loud, ghetto, thuggish, promiscious etc) and generally not being given the benefit of the doubt of being honest, forthright,

1) More likely questioned/accused of plagiarizing/cheating
2) not having their version of events accepted during a dispute (see recent NJ mall incident)
3) during heaed debate, seen as aggressive and angry (ABW angry black woman trope) where another student may be deemed simple passionate, heartfelt or ardent
4) not being allowed to get into an honores class despite having gotten a great grade in a precursor class, and having to have a parent have to come in and fight to get you in the class
5) having rules strictly enforced against you while white and white passing peers be given second, third, fourth chances.

All examples you'll see in the Black at IG pages.

Quick anectdote: in grad school at a top tier DC school, I walked into a student office one weekend to work and a student had left her purse there unattended, arguably the entire day and felt secure it would be safe there. She later walked into the office while I was typing, I guess to grab something and she walked out but then came back to grab her purse. As in, she felt more comfortable leaving her purse unattended than leave it in a room with a black student. That left a sting and I still cant shake it all these years later.

White passing can escape those things bc they are less obviously black, I think.,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(And know that there is lots of research that says "white passing, mixed and racially ambiguous kids are able to easier fit in, and assimilate in White society because of their proximity to whiteness. They stand out less, are accepted more and deemed less threatening, and there is less "otherness" to them in the eyes of classmates, teachers, administration. )

This from above is disturbing. You really think people find black children at private schools threatening or “other” here in DC? Not being snarky. I find this very upsetting.

Not necessarily threatening, violently, more like having the burden of all of the negative stereotypes associated with the race, (thought of as being loud, ghetto, thuggish, promiscious etc) and generally not being given the benefit of the doubt of being honest, forthright,

1) More likely questioned/accused of plagiarizing/cheating
2) not having their version of events accepted during a dispute (see recent NJ mall incident)
3) during heaed debate, seen as aggressive and angry (ABW angry black woman trope) where another student may be deemed simple passionate, heartfelt or ardent
4) not being allowed to get into an honores class despite having gotten a great grade in a precursor class, and having to have a parent have to come in and fight to get you in the class
5) having rules strictly enforced against you while white and white passing peers be given second, third, fourth chances.

All examples you'll see in the Black at IG pages.

Quick anectdote: in grad school at a top tier DC school, I walked into a student office one weekend to work and a student had left her purse there unattended, arguably the entire day and felt secure it would be safe there. She later walked into the office while I was typing, I guess to grab something and she walked out but then came back to grab her purse. As in, she felt more comfortable leaving her purse unattended than leave it in a room with a black student. That left a sting and I still cant shake it all these years later.

White passing can escape those things bc they are less obviously black, I think.,

Interesting that you would assume that is how she felt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(And know that there is lots of research that says "white passing, mixed and racially ambiguous kids are able to easier fit in, and assimilate in White society because of their proximity to whiteness. They stand out less, are accepted more and deemed less threatening, and there is less "otherness" to them in the eyes of classmates, teachers, administration. )

This from above is disturbing. You really think people find black children at private schools threatening or “other” here in DC? Not being snarky. I find this very upsetting.

Not necessarily threatening, violently, more like having the burden of all of the negative stereotypes associated with the race, (thought of as being loud, ghetto, thuggish, promiscious etc) and generally not being given the benefit of the doubt of being honest, forthright,

1) More likely questioned/accused of plagiarizing/cheating
2) not having their version of events accepted during a dispute (see recent NJ mall incident)
3) during heaed debate, seen as aggressive and angry (ABW angry black woman trope) where another student may be deemed simple passionate, heartfelt or ardent
4) not being allowed to get into an honores class despite having gotten a great grade in a precursor class, and having to have a parent have to come in and fight to get you in the class
5) having rules strictly enforced against you while white and white passing peers be given second, third, fourth chances.

All examples you'll see in the Black at IG pages.

Quick anectdote: in grad school at a top tier DC school, I walked into a student office one weekend to work and a student had left her purse there unattended, arguably the entire day and felt secure it would be safe there. She later walked into the office while I was typing, I guess to grab something and she walked out but then came back to grab her purse. As in, she felt more comfortable leaving her purse unattended than leave it in a room with a black student. That left a sting and I still cant shake it all these years later.

White passing can escape those things bc they are less obviously black, I think.,

Interesting that you would assume that is how she felt.

I wasn't there and I don't know the person in question but it may have been she just realized it was stupid of her to leave it unattended AT ALL. Maybe nothing to do with you personally? I think sometimes we forget to give other people the benefit of the doubt too. Although I know nothing of the body language expressed and person involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP: I'm white, spouse Asian. DS definitely gets asked questions like "so, what are you?" at school sometimes and we've had a number of conversations with him about how to handle those situations constructively. He doesn't seem too phased by it, but at the same time usually when a situation like this comes up he wonders allowed why he has to answer so much or why other kids don't get asked that as much as he does.

It clearly bothers him to some degree, but there is no question he doesn't experience discrimination and adversity the way a more obviously black or brown person would, or even on par with a full Asian person (like my spouse, the difference between the type of service/response/accommodation we receive at stores/restaurants/etc. when I'm the one making the ask is quite stark... and similarly in our professional environments). So saying he's a personal of color does seem a bit disingenous, but he's also not "passing as white" (especially in situations where it might be advantageous if he could) so and it would be similarly disingenuous to equate his experience as those of white kids.

So if you want to reduce things to as simple of a binary metric as a POC vs. white that's fine, but it's going to leave out a lot of information. Even something as simple as reporting the % POC (Black, Indigenous, Latinx) and % white, but not forcing them to add up to 100% is useful... leaves space in the middle for Asian, multiracial, and other people whose experience in our society falls somewhere between the two extremes of white and POC.

I don't think that's what the Black mom was getting at, if I can chime in here. The newish POC moniker is actually damaging because it lumps the groups in as one and the Black experience, for example, is STARK/DISTINCTIVELY different compared to other POC, in America, hence newer terms like BIPOC. (Black Indegious and People of Color)

The concern is social isolation and children feeling culturally comfortable knowing there are others from similar background and cultural experiences in their classes and on campus.

And know that there is lots of research that says "white passing, mixed and racially ambiguous kids are able to easier fit in, and assimilate in White society because of their proximity to whiteness. They stand out less, are accepted more and deemed less threatening, and there is less "otherness" to them in the eyes of classmates, teachers, administration.

Thus, if a school advertises 20% POC in a class as part of their their diversity numbers and a parent signs up without visiting because of Covid restrictions or distance, for example, to only realize after enrolling that there is 0 obviously black and 0 obviously hispanic kids in that 20%, then that parent might have set up their child to feel culturally isolated.

If anyone questions whether this really is that Big of a deal or concern, ask yourself if you would want to go to school for 4-12 years when you are the only White person or only person for your answer. Or check the Black At Instagram pages to see why it can be an issue.

Thank you. Exactly. Although I also agree with white mom with Asian spouse above as well. I think schools should be intentional with a student demographics showing each category on it’s own. They should also show a class faculty photo. White parents or white passing parents do not understand and they don’t have to buy we do ask at least let us have our feelings without trying to invalidate them. Yes I’ve seen the Black at Instagram pages and they are very enlightening. Unfortunately, my kid is likely to have similar experiences no matter where they go for high school or college, but at least at Wilson, or USC I know exactly how many other black students there will be with my kid and not exactly a 1/4 Asian kid that is not likely to experience the same adversity that my kid will experience.