Excellent podcast from Politico from youngkin strategists on how they won — must read/listen

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The case for Youngkin here seems to be long on rage, short on facts. I understand why that’s compelling for some people, but it doesn’t bode well for good governance.

+1

Irrational and/or misinformed.

You misunderstand. I'm not making a case for Youngkin. I'm making a case for why the Democrats got Youngkin elected in part because of their horrible policies on schools. I don't want Youngkin. I want a Democratic party that can stand up for its basic beliefs even if strong special interests within the party oppose them.

Right. Ds have to change tactics because some people tend to vote based on emotion or misinformation.

Oh, please. The ridiculous claim that Youngkin won because "people tend to vote based on emotion or misinformation" simply makes you look even more condescending than usual. Youngkin won because voters had all the FACTUAL information necessary to make an informed decision. Do you realize how you look when you make these idiotic claims?
DP

Exactly. There are very, very few other policy areas where voters can very easily see the facts for themselves -- did you actually think they would not notice that private schools were open, Catholic schools were open, schools in other states were open? It boggles the mind that we somehow were not supposed to notice this, or not care.

Private schools could stay open because they have bigger facilities per student, smaller class sizes, the ability to enforce pretty much whatever rules they want in this regard, and the ability to kick out anyone who refused to comply. Public schools don’t have those luxuries and that’s not something Youngkin can/will change.

Yeah, tell us why there were many, many other schools across the nation and in Europe were open. Did every single last one of them just have more resources? And if the issue was space, why not just open hybrid in Fall 2020?

And moreover, how is that possible an acceptable message for a party supposedly dedicated to equity? "Oh sorry, education is only possible for the rich right now! Too bad, so sad."

Are you saying you support banning private schools because they might be able to offer the wealthy more than a public school could? Interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The case for Youngkin here seems to be long on rage, short on facts. I understand why that’s compelling for some people, but it doesn’t bode well for good governance.

+1

Irrational and/or misinformed.

You misunderstand. I'm not making a case for Youngkin. I'm making a case for why the Democrats got Youngkin elected in part because of their horrible policies on schools. I don't want Youngkin. I want a Democratic party that can stand up for its basic beliefs even if strong special interests within the party oppose them.

Right. Ds have to change tactics because some people tend to vote based on emotion or misinformation.

Oh, please. The ridiculous claim that Youngkin won because "people tend to vote based on emotion or misinformation" simply makes you look even more condescending than usual. Youngkin won because voters had all the FACTUAL information necessary to make an informed decision. Do you realize how you look when you make these idiotic claims?
DP

Exactly. There are very, very few other policy areas where voters can very easily see the facts for themselves -- did you actually think they would not notice that private schools were open, Catholic schools were open, schools in other states were open? It boggles the mind that we somehow were not supposed to notice this, or not care.

Private schools could stay open because they have bigger facilities per student, smaller class sizes, the ability to enforce pretty much whatever rules they want in this regard, and the ability to kick out anyone who refused to comply. Public schools don’t have those luxuries and that’s not something Youngkin can/will change.

Yeah, tell us why there were many, many other schools across the nation and in Europe were open. Did every single last one of them just have more resources? And if the issue was space, why not just open hybrid in Fall 2020?

And moreover, how is that possible an acceptable message for a party supposedly dedicated to equity? "Oh sorry, education is only possible for the rich right now! Too bad, so sad."

Are you saying you support banning private schools because they might be able to offer the wealthy more than a public school could? Interesting.

Oh wow that's so clever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If McAuliffe had won, we'd simply be staring down four more years of exactly the same nonsense: watering down of curriculum, focusing on "anti-bias" training to the exclusion of actually focusing on ACADEMICS, and high taxes. The voters have spoken.

I welcome Governor Youngkin and hopefully the return of common sense.

Youngkin wasn’t running for school board, which is where most of those decisions get made.

Proving the point about “short on facts”

Speaking of "short on facts" - you seem unaware that the VA Dept. of Education reports to the Governor of VA. The Superintendent of Public Instruction is appointed by the Governor. All divisions of the VDOE fall under and report to the Superintendent - and the Governor of VA. Including this one:

Department of Policy, Equity, and Communications – Holly Coy, Assistant Superintendent

The mission of the Department of Policy, Equity, and Communications is to assist the Virginia Board of Education, the governor and the General Assembly in the development of legislation, regulations, and policies that promote student learning and achievement and to provide timely and accurate information about public education in the commonwealth. Department staff serve as liaison to the Board, and support the Board in promoting education reform. The department monitors federal policies and refers them to other divisions for oversight. The department maintains working relationships with the news media, educational organizations, and school divisions to ensure timely distributing of accurate information concerning the Board of Education policies and the Agency actions.

https://doe.virginia.gov/about/index.shtml

Duties

The main duties of the Board of Education include:

Setting statewide curriculum standards;
Establishing high school graduation requirements;
Determining qualifications for classroom teachers, principals, and other education personnel;
Establishing state testing and assessment programs;
Establishing standards for accreditation of local school divisions and preparation programs for teachers and administrators;
Implementing the Every Student Succeeds Act (ESSA) and administering federal assistance programs; and
Developing rules and regulations for the administration of state programs.

The Board of Education consists of nine members appointed by the Governor, subject to confirmation by the General Assembly. Members are appointed to serve a term of four years. No member shall be appointed to more than two consecutive four-year terms.
https://doe.virginia.gov/boe/index.shtml

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The case for Youngkin here seems to be long on rage, short on facts. I understand why that’s compelling for some people, but it doesn’t bode well for good governance.

+1

Irrational and/or misinformed.

You misunderstand. I'm not making a case for Youngkin. I'm making a case for why the Democrats got Youngkin elected in part because of their horrible policies on schools. I don't want Youngkin. I want a Democratic party that can stand up for its basic beliefs even if strong special interests within the party oppose them.

Right. Ds have to change tactics because some people tend to vote based on emotion or misinformation.

Oh, please. The ridiculous claim that Youngkin won because "people tend to vote based on emotion or misinformation" simply makes you look even more condescending than usual. Youngkin won because voters had all the FACTUAL information necessary to make an informed decision. Do you realize how you look when you make these idiotic claims?
DP

Exactly. There are very, very few other policy areas where voters can very easily see the facts for themselves -- did you actually think they would not notice that private schools were open, Catholic schools were open, schools in other states were open? It boggles the mind that we somehow were not supposed to notice this, or not care.

Private schools could stay open because they have bigger facilities per student, smaller class sizes, the ability to enforce pretty much whatever rules they want in this regard, and the ability to kick out anyone who refused to comply. Public schools don’t have those luxuries and that’s not something Youngkin can/will change.

Yeah, tell us why there were many, many other schools across the nation and in Europe were open. Did every single last one of them just have more resources? And if the issue was space, why not just open hybrid in Fall 2020?

And moreover, how is that possible an acceptable message for a party supposedly dedicated to equity? "Oh sorry, education is only possible for the rich right now! Too bad, so sad."

Are you saying you support banning private schools because they might be able to offer the wealthy more than a public school could? Interesting.

That's not how liberals work. They don't want any of their policy stances to effect their own children (beyond lip service), so they continue to send them to private or to public schools far away from FARMs students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some nuances I'm not seeing reflected here - as the working parent of a young child, I definitely was told that by wanting in-person school, I "just wanted free daycare"...but usually that sentiment was expressed by people of conservative political persuasions who probably thought women should be SAHMs anyway ("if you can't/don't want to take care of your own kids you shouldn't have had them!"). From teachers/teacher advocacy groups, I mostly heard a lot of "not [reopening] until it's safe", which seemed to be unclear at best and a constantly moving goalpost at worst. I was incensed by teachers who took full advantage of priority vaccination and then still refused to return to in-person teaching.

All that said...the majority of APS and FCPS parents chose remote learning in the fall of 2020 (not sure about other counties). You can split hairs and say it's because the proposed in-person offerings weren't workable (staggered starts, alternate days), but looking back 15 months ago, we didn't know what we do now, and most people erred on the side of keeping kids home.

The "OpenFCPS" crowd was an uneasy alliance of Covid deniers, parents who wanted/needed their kids out of the house, and people with serious concerns about their children's educational needs being met (or not)...while they were loud, they were never able to formulate a cogent "Plan B" that included CDC-compliant risk mitigation measures.

I can understand being mad at local school boards, at teachers, at teachers unions. Some of the stuff that was done (remote school from within school facilities, for a fee?!) was the antithesis of equity. And the fact that working parents got the rawest deal of the pandemic has been broadly documented. All fair points.

But to go from there to...voting in the party that opposes paid family and medical leave, dispenses with public health mitigation measures like masks and vaccinations, and siphons off public school money to private schools and corporate-helmed charters (while simultaneously decreasing overall incoming tax revenue) seems to me to be textbook cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. I won't go so far as to say flipping one's vote to Youngkin was racist, but I absolutely believe that the people who did so en masse (college-educated white women) acted in an effort to preserve their own privilege in shaping public schools to best serve their own interests. Just because Youngkin was smart enough to largely keep his mouth shut during the campaign doesn't mean he's not the policy equivalent of Trump et al.

I disagree with you on some of the specifics here, but I think the key point you are missing isn't that Democrats who care about education voted for Youngkin but instead that Democrats who care about education couldn't bring themselves to vote for McAuliffe. You are framing this as "flipping" to Youngkin, but McAuliffe's bigger problem was the low voter turnout. And that had a lot to do with the positions of the Democratic party on education over the past two years. Meanwhile, the Republican base was energized, probably because Youngkin is an objectively better candidate and possibly because moderate Republicans and independents saw a potential path away from Trumpism through Youngkin. But more significantly for McAuliffe, Democrats stayed away in large numbers and did not vote.

Therefore, I think you are abjectly wrong about the bolded. McAuliffe's problem wasn't really large numbers of voters who switched. Yes, some did. But by far the bigger problem for McAuliffe were the large numbers of Democrats who used to believe in the Democrats as the party of education, and who used to see the Democrats as essentially being a general force for good, but who have become deeply disillusioned because of the school closures and other Democratic actions on education. Those folks aren't voting Republican, but they aren't willing to vote for McAuliffe either. They stayed home. And that's what cost McAuliffe the election.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If McAuliffe had won, we'd simply be staring down four more years of exactly the same nonsense: watering down of curriculum, focusing on "anti-bias" training to the exclusion of actually focusing on ACADEMICS, and high taxes. The voters have spoken.

I welcome Governor Youngkin and hopefully the return of common sense.

Youngkin wasn’t running for school board, which is where most of those decisions get made.

Proving the point about “short on facts”

Speaking of "short on facts" - you seem unaware that the VA Dept. of Education reports to the Governor of VA. The Superintendent of Public Instruction is appointed by the Governor. All divisions of the VDOE fall under and report to the Superintendent - and the Governor of VA. Including this one:

Department of Policy, Equity, and Communications – Holly Coy, Assistant Superintendent

The mission of the Department of Policy, Equity, and Communications is to assist the Virginia Board of Education, the governor and the General Assembly in the development of legislation, regulations, and policies that promote student learning and achievement and to provide timely and accurate information about public education in the commonwealth. Department staff serve as liaison to the Board, and support the Board in promoting education reform. The department monitors federal policies and refers them to other divisions for oversight. The department maintains working relationships with the news media, educational organizations, and school divisions to ensure timely distributing of accurate information concerning the Board of Education policies and the Agency actions.

https://doe.virginia.gov/about/index.shtml

Duties

The main duties of the Board of Education include:

Setting statewide curriculum standards;
Establishing high school graduation requirements;
Determining qualifications for classroom teachers, principals, and other education personnel;
Establishing state testing and assessment programs;
Establishing standards for accreditation of local school divisions and preparation programs for teachers and administrators;
Implementing the Every Student Succeeds Act (ESSA) and administering federal assistance programs; and
Developing rules and regulations for the administration of state programs.

The Board of Education consists of nine members appointed by the Governor, subject to confirmation by the General Assembly. Members are appointed to serve a term of four years. No member shall be appointed to more than two consecutive four-year terms.
https://doe.virginia.gov/boe/index.shtml

Yes. We all knew this. ??

It sounds like it was news to you though. Glad you are catching up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The case for Youngkin here seems to be long on rage, short on facts. I understand why that’s compelling for some people, but it doesn’t bode well for good governance.

+1

Irrational and/or misinformed.

You misunderstand. I'm not making a case for Youngkin. I'm making a case for why the Democrats got Youngkin elected in part because of their horrible policies on schools. I don't want Youngkin. I want a Democratic party that can stand up for its basic beliefs even if strong special interests within the party oppose them.

Right. Ds have to change tactics because some people tend to vote based on emotion or misinformation.

Oh, please. The ridiculous claim that Youngkin won because "people tend to vote based on emotion or misinformation" simply makes you look even more condescending than usual. Youngkin won because voters had all the FACTUAL information necessary to make an informed decision. Do you realize how you look when you make these idiotic claims?
DP

Exactly. There are very, very few other policy areas where voters can very easily see the facts for themselves -- did you actually think they would not notice that private schools were open, Catholic schools were open, schools in other states were open? It boggles the mind that we somehow were not supposed to notice this, or not care.

Private schools could stay open because they have bigger facilities per student, smaller class sizes, the ability to enforce pretty much whatever rules they want in this regard, and the ability to kick out anyone who refused to comply. Public schools don’t have those luxuries and that’s not something Youngkin can/will change.

Yeah, tell us why there were many, many other schools across the nation and in Europe were open. Did every single last one of them just have more resources? And if the issue was space, why not just open hybrid in Fall 2020?

Actually, European public schools tend to be significantly better funded than US public schools. Europeans also generally did much better than Americans with complying with public health guidelines like masking.

And they took lockdowns seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come on now, you aren't seeing alllllllll of the sexism inherent in deriding women who were 1) disproportionately hurt in terms of employment and well-being by school closures, 2) pushing for faster school reopening because they felt their children were being hurt by the closures?

So you voted for the candidate and party who is for defunding public schools (go charters, let’s ramp up that graft like you have in DC), and opposed universal day care and parental leave? What a shell game.

Actually, Youngkin is for fully funding public schools, including revamping and investing in special education. Funding charter schools doesn't equal defunding public schools. But keep on lying! It's worked so well for you so far.
DP

I take it you aren’t familiar with how charter schools get funded.

Especially after tax cuts…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The case for Youngkin here seems to be long on rage, short on facts. I understand why that’s compelling for some people, but it doesn’t bode well for good governance.

+1

Irrational and/or misinformed.

You misunderstand. I'm not making a case for Youngkin. I'm making a case for why the Democrats got Youngkin elected in part because of their horrible policies on schools. I don't want Youngkin. I want a Democratic party that can stand up for its basic beliefs even if strong special interests within the party oppose them.

Right. Ds have to change tactics because some people tend to vote based on emotion or misinformation.

Oh, please. The ridiculous claim that Youngkin won because "people tend to vote based on emotion or misinformation" simply makes you look even more condescending than usual. Youngkin won because voters had all the FACTUAL information necessary to make an informed decision. Do you realize how you look when you make these idiotic claims?
DP

Exactly. There are very, very few other policy areas where voters can very easily see the facts for themselves -- did you actually think they would not notice that private schools were open, Catholic schools were open, schools in other states were open? It boggles the mind that we somehow were not supposed to notice this, or not care.

Private schools could stay open because they have bigger facilities per student, smaller class sizes, the ability to enforce pretty much whatever rules they want in this regard, and the ability to kick out anyone who refused to comply. Public schools don’t have those luxuries and that’s not something Youngkin can/will change.

Yeah, tell us why there were many, many other schools across the nation and in Europe were open. Did every single last one of them just have more resources? And if the issue was space, why not just open hybrid in Fall 2020?

Actually, European public schools tend to be significantly better funded than US public schools. Europeans also generally did much better than Americans with complying with public health guidelines like masking.

And they took lockdowns seriously.

so closed schools were a punishment by the government for people going to bars (when bars were legally open)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The case for Youngkin here seems to be long on rage, short on facts. I understand why that’s compelling for some people, but it doesn’t bode well for good governance.

+1

Irrational and/or misinformed.

You misunderstand. I'm not making a case for Youngkin. I'm making a case for why the Democrats got Youngkin elected in part because of their horrible policies on schools. I don't want Youngkin. I want a Democratic party that can stand up for its basic beliefs even if strong special interests within the party oppose them.

Right. Ds have to change tactics because some people tend to vote based on emotion or misinformation.

Oh, please. The ridiculous claim that Youngkin won because "people tend to vote based on emotion or misinformation" simply makes you look even more condescending than usual. Youngkin won because voters had all the FACTUAL information necessary to make an informed decision. Do you realize how you look when you make these idiotic claims?
DP

Exactly. There are very, very few other policy areas where voters can very easily see the facts for themselves -- did you actually think they would not notice that private schools were open, Catholic schools were open, schools in other states were open? It boggles the mind that we somehow were not supposed to notice this, or not care.

Private schools could stay open because they have bigger facilities per student, smaller class sizes, the ability to enforce pretty much whatever rules they want in this regard, and the ability to kick out anyone who refused to comply. Public schools don’t have those luxuries and that’s not something Youngkin can/will change.

Yeah, tell us why there were many, many other schools across the nation and in Europe were open. Did every single last one of them just have more resources? And if the issue was space, why not just open hybrid in Fall 2020?

Actually, European public schools tend to be significantly better funded than US public schools. Europeans also generally did much better than Americans with complying with public health guidelines like masking.

And they took lockdowns seriously.

so closed schools were a punishment by the government for people going to bars (when bars were legally open)?

Not “punishment”, but certainly lower prioritization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The case for Youngkin here seems to be long on rage, short on facts. I understand why that’s compelling for some people, but it doesn’t bode well for good governance.

+1

Irrational and/or misinformed.

You misunderstand. I'm not making a case for Youngkin. I'm making a case for why the Democrats got Youngkin elected in part because of their horrible policies on schools. I don't want Youngkin. I want a Democratic party that can stand up for its basic beliefs even if strong special interests within the party oppose them.

Right. Ds have to change tactics because some people tend to vote based on emotion or misinformation.

Oh, please. The ridiculous claim that Youngkin won because "people tend to vote based on emotion or misinformation" simply makes you look even more condescending than usual. Youngkin won because voters had all the FACTUAL information necessary to make an informed decision. Do you realize how you look when you make these idiotic claims?
DP

Exactly. There are very, very few other policy areas where voters can very easily see the facts for themselves -- did you actually think they would not notice that private schools were open, Catholic schools were open, schools in other states were open? It boggles the mind that we somehow were not supposed to notice this, or not care.

Private schools could stay open because they have bigger facilities per student, smaller class sizes, the ability to enforce pretty much whatever rules they want in this regard, and the ability to kick out anyone who refused to comply. Public schools don’t have those luxuries and that’s not something Youngkin can/will change.

Yeah, tell us why there were many, many other schools across the nation and in Europe were open. Did every single last one of them just have more resources? And if the issue was space, why not just open hybrid in Fall 2020?

Actually, European public schools tend to be significantly better funded than US public schools. Europeans also generally did much better than Americans with complying with public health guidelines like masking.

And they took lockdowns seriously.

so closed schools were a punishment by the government for people going to bars (when bars were legally open)?

Not “punishment”, but certainly lower prioritization.

and that’s supposed to make me support Dems? just trying to follow along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some nuances I'm not seeing reflected here - as the working parent of a young child, I definitely was told that by wanting in-person school, I "just wanted free daycare"...but usually that sentiment was expressed by people of conservative political persuasions who probably thought women should be SAHMs anyway ("if you can't/don't want to take care of your own kids you shouldn't have had them!"). From teachers/teacher advocacy groups, I mostly heard a lot of "not [reopening] until it's safe", which seemed to be unclear at best and a constantly moving goalpost at worst. I was incensed by teachers who took full advantage of priority vaccination and then still refused to return to in-person teaching.

All that said...the majority of APS and FCPS parents chose remote learning in the fall of 2020 (not sure about other counties). You can split hairs and say it's because the proposed in-person offerings weren't workable (staggered starts, alternate days), but looking back 15 months ago, we didn't know what we do now, and most people erred on the side of keeping kids home.

The "OpenFCPS" crowd was an uneasy alliance of Covid deniers, parents who wanted/needed their kids out of the house, and people with serious concerns about their children's educational needs being met (or not)...while they were loud, they were never able to formulate a cogent "Plan B" that included CDC-compliant risk mitigation measures.

I can understand being mad at local school boards, at teachers, at teachers unions. Some of the stuff that was done (remote school from within school facilities, for a fee?!) was the antithesis of equity. And the fact that working parents got the rawest deal of the pandemic has been broadly documented. All fair points.

But to go from there to...voting in the party that opposes paid family and medical leave, dispenses with public health mitigation measures like masks and vaccinations, and siphons off public school money to private schools and corporate-helmed charters (while simultaneously decreasing overall incoming tax revenue) seems to me to be textbook cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. I won't go so far as to say flipping one's vote to Youngkin was racist, but I absolutely believe that the people who did so en masse (college-educated white women) acted in an effort to preserve their own privilege in shaping public schools to best serve their own interests. Just because Youngkin was smart enough to largely keep his mouth shut during the campaign doesn't mean he's not the policy equivalent of Trump et al.

So your point is, that it’s a white college-educated woman’s responsibility to shut up, pay taxes, and not expect a thing for them?

Wait...what?! That's quite a leap. If high-quality, safe, continuously open public schools are your goal, don't you think it's a bit short-sighted to think you'll get that from the party that consistently denigrates public health measures and either directly or indirectly defunds public education? Seems rather like expecting Rs to do something about gun control because Democrats moved too slowly on the issue for your taste...

given that Democrats literally closed schools for 1.5 years, you don’t have much credibility. That’s the whole problem.

DP. Virginia schools closed in March 2020. They were ordered to reopen in March 2021. That’s one year, not 1.5. I understand some people were dissatisfied with 3 months of hybrid at that point (as was I), but school was not closed at that point.

Fcps special ed kids wwre kept out of school through the summer of 2021

This is not believable. Citation?

Definitely happened.

Visit the special ed threads from this summer. Fcps cancelled their summer classes days before, sometimes the night before.

The school hoard was busy with TJ admissions and did not have time to hire or schedule teachers.

Lies.

Kids with highest needs were brought back in-person 4 days/wk back in NOVEMBER 2020.
https://www.fcps. https://www.fcps.edu/blog/return-school-news-november-9-2020/blog/return-school-news-november-9-2020

The rest were back - if they selected in-person by March 2020.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The case for Youngkin here seems to be long on rage, short on facts. I understand why that’s compelling for some people, but it doesn’t bode well for good governance.

+1

Irrational and/or misinformed.

You misunderstand. I'm not making a case for Youngkin. I'm making a case for why the Democrats got Youngkin elected in part because of their horrible policies on schools. I don't want Youngkin. I want a Democratic party that can stand up for its basic beliefs even if strong special interests within the party oppose them.

Right. Ds have to change tactics because some people tend to vote based on emotion or misinformation.

Oh, please. The ridiculous claim that Youngkin won because "people tend to vote based on emotion or misinformation" simply makes you look even more condescending than usual. Youngkin won because voters had all the FACTUAL information necessary to make an informed decision. Do you realize how you look when you make these idiotic claims?
DP

Exactly. There are very, very few other policy areas where voters can very easily see the facts for themselves -- did you actually think they would not notice that private schools were open, Catholic schools were open, schools in other states were open? It boggles the mind that we somehow were not supposed to notice this, or not care.

Private schools could stay open because they have bigger facilities per student, smaller class sizes, the ability to enforce pretty much whatever rules they want in this regard, and the ability to kick out anyone who refused to comply. Public schools don’t have those luxuries and that’s not something Youngkin can/will change.

Yeah, tell us why there were many, many other schools across the nation and in Europe were open. Did every single last one of them just have more resources? And if the issue was space, why not just open hybrid in Fall 2020?

Actually, European public schools tend to be significantly better funded than US public schools. Europeans also generally did much better than Americans with complying with public health guidelines like masking.

And they took lockdowns seriously.

so closed schools were a punishment by the government for people going to bars (when bars were legally open)?

Not “punishment”, but certainly lower prioritization.

and that’s supposed to make me support Dems? just trying to follow along.

Was that a partisan thing?

Were the Rs closing down bars to open schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some nuances I'm not seeing reflected here - as the working parent of a young child, I definitely was told that by wanting in-person school, I "just wanted free daycare"...but usually that sentiment was expressed by people of conservative political persuasions who probably thought women should be SAHMs anyway ("if you can't/don't want to take care of your own kids you shouldn't have had them!"). From teachers/teacher advocacy groups, I mostly heard a lot of "not [reopening] until it's safe", which seemed to be unclear at best and a constantly moving goalpost at worst. I was incensed by teachers who took full advantage of priority vaccination and then still refused to return to in-person teaching.

All that said...the majority of APS and FCPS parents chose remote learning in the fall of 2020 (not sure about other counties). You can split hairs and say it's because the proposed in-person offerings weren't workable (staggered starts, alternate days), but looking back 15 months ago, we didn't know what we do now, and most people erred on the side of keeping kids home.

The "OpenFCPS" crowd was an uneasy alliance of Covid deniers, parents who wanted/needed their kids out of the house, and people with serious concerns about their children's educational needs being met (or not)...while they were loud, they were never able to formulate a cogent "Plan B" that included CDC-compliant risk mitigation measures.

I can understand being mad at local school boards, at teachers, at teachers unions. Some of the stuff that was done (remote school from within school facilities, for a fee?!) was the antithesis of equity. And the fact that working parents got the rawest deal of the pandemic has been broadly documented. All fair points.

But to go from there to...voting in the party that opposes paid family and medical leave, dispenses with public health mitigation measures like masks and vaccinations, and siphons off public school money to private schools and corporate-helmed charters (while simultaneously decreasing overall incoming tax revenue) seems to me to be textbook cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. I won't go so far as to say flipping one's vote to Youngkin was racist, but I absolutely believe that the people who did so en masse (college-educated white women) acted in an effort to preserve their own privilege in shaping public schools to best serve their own interests. Just because Youngkin was smart enough to largely keep his mouth shut during the campaign doesn't mean he's not the policy equivalent of Trump et al.

So your point is, that it’s a white college-educated woman’s responsibility to shut up, pay taxes, and not expect a thing for them?

Wait...what?! That's quite a leap. If high-quality, safe, continuously open public schools are your goal, don't you think it's a bit short-sighted to think you'll get that from the party that consistently denigrates public health measures and either directly or indirectly defunds public education? Seems rather like expecting Rs to do something about gun control because Democrats moved too slowly on the issue for your taste...

given that Democrats literally closed schools for 1.5 years, you don’t have much credibility. That’s the whole problem.

DP. Virginia schools closed in March 2020. They were ordered to reopen in March 2021. That’s one year, not 1.5. I understand some people were dissatisfied with 3 months of hybrid at that point (as was I), but school was not closed at that point.

Fcps special ed kids wwre kept out of school through the summer of 2021

This is not believable. Citation?

Definitely happened.

Visit the special ed threads from this summer. Fcps cancelled their summer classes days before, sometimes the night before.

The school hoard was busy with TJ admissions and did not have time to hire or schedule teachers.

Lies.

Kids with highest needs were brought back in-person 4 days/wk back in NOVEMBER 2020.
https://www.fcps. https://www.fcps.edu/blog/return-school-news-november-9-2020/blog/return-school-news-november-9-2020

The rest were back - if they selected in-person by March 2020.

Link:
https://www.fcps.edu/blog/return-school-news-november-9-2020

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Some nuances I'm not seeing reflected here - as the working parent of a young child, I definitely was told that by wanting in-person school, I "just wanted free daycare"...but usually that sentiment was expressed by people of conservative political persuasions who probably thought women should be SAHMs anyway ("if you can't/don't want to take care of your own kids you shouldn't have had them!"). From teachers/teacher advocacy groups, I mostly heard a lot of "not [reopening] until it's safe", which seemed to be unclear at best and a constantly moving goalpost at worst. I was incensed by teachers who took full advantage of priority vaccination and then still refused to return to in-person teaching.

All that said...the majority of APS and FCPS parents chose remote learning in the fall of 2020 (not sure about other counties). You can split hairs and say it's because the proposed in-person offerings weren't workable (staggered starts, alternate days), but looking back 15 months ago, we didn't know what we do now, and most people erred on the side of keeping kids home.

The "OpenFCPS" crowd was an uneasy alliance of Covid deniers, parents who wanted/needed their kids out of the house, and people with serious concerns about their children's educational needs being met (or not)...while they were loud, they were never able to formulate a cogent "Plan B" that included CDC-compliant risk mitigation measures.

I can understand being mad at local school boards, at teachers, at teachers unions. Some of the stuff that was done (remote school from within school facilities, for a fee?!) was the antithesis of equity. And the fact that working parents got the rawest deal of the pandemic has been broadly documented. All fair points.

But to go from there to...voting in the party that opposes paid family and medical leave, dispenses with public health mitigation measures like masks and vaccinations, and siphons off public school money to private schools and corporate-helmed charters (while simultaneously decreasing overall incoming tax revenue) seems to me to be textbook cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. I won't go so far as to say flipping one's vote to Youngkin was racist, but I absolutely believe that the people who did so en masse (college-educated white women) acted in an effort to preserve their own privilege in shaping public schools to best serve their own interests. Just because Youngkin was smart enough to largely keep his mouth shut during the campaign doesn't mean he's not the policy equivalent of Trump et al.

So your point is, that it’s a white college-educated woman’s responsibility to shut up, pay taxes, and not expect a thing for them?

Wait...what?! That's quite a leap. If high-quality, safe, continuously open public schools are your goal, don't you think it's a bit short-sighted to think you'll get that from the party that consistently denigrates public health measures and either directly or indirectly defunds public education? Seems rather like expecting Rs to do something about gun control because Democrats moved too slowly on the issue for your taste...

given that Democrats literally closed schools for 1.5 years, you don’t have much credibility. That’s the whole problem.

DP. Virginia schools closed in March 2020. They were ordered to reopen in March 2021. That’s one year, not 1.5. I understand some people were dissatisfied with 3 months of hybrid at that point (as was I), but school was not closed at that point.

Fcps special ed kids wwre kept out of school through the summer of 2021

This is not believable. Citation?

Definitely happened.

Visit the special ed threads from this summer. Fcps cancelled their summer classes days before, sometimes the night before.

The school hoard was busy with TJ admissions and did not have time to hire or schedule teachers.

Lies.

Kids with highest needs were brought back in-person 4 days/wk back in NOVEMBER 2020.
https://www.fcps. https://www.fcps.edu/blog/return-school-news-november-9-2020/blog/return-school-news-november-9-2020

The rest were back - if they selected in-person by March 2020.

I think they brought the highest needs kids back in November (of course not full time) and then went back all virtual pretty quickly even for the highest needs kids - I think mid by December. At the time of a school board meeting on December 11, 2020 - they were planning to stop educating in person the highest needs of the highest needs in part, because the highest need special education students allegedly had trouble keeping masks on - but indoor sports winter sports were allowed to start then including cheerleaders and wrestlers, for example, who didn't need to wear masks & the school board did not have a problem with that!! I was so annoyed by that at the time. I support sports - but I support education first - and it was so dumb that the FCPS school board needed medical professionals and the state to subsequently point out that you had to put education first over sports when planning to return to school.