I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.
You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"
Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.
Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.
I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?
Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.
That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?
It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.
Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.
Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.
DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?
So what do you think the process should be?
I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.
So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.
That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?
Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?
PP. I don't know, but I find it abhorrent that one person can have that much influence. It sets a bad precedent since, as I said, that one person could file a complaint against literally anything at all.
I'm in the "trust your local librarian" camp, sorry. I don't think they're all in the job to corrupt children. My best friend is an elementary school librarian, and I know several others, and the idea that they are corrupting young minds with filth seems quite the stretch to me.
I want to agree with you. But our kids' school librarian (a far-leftist) convinced the principal to do a school-wide read of Kendi's Stamped and give lessons on Kendi's brand of anti-racism. If you don't know Kendi, he is a horrible racist who says that racial discrimination is a necessary component of anti-racism. The librarian and principal said they would make the entire school anti-racist in this mold. This is insane, illiberal, and racist. So my blank check for schools and librarians was cased that year. I'm now keeping an eye on everyone who teaches my kids. And I support that right for everyone. I suppose the door is open for abuse but that's more on the school administration's inability to deal with removal requests. The alternative you provide leaves the door open for lunatics with an agenda to go unchecked.
OmG you are afraid of your kids reading Stamped? It is a high school AP book.
Certainly not porn. But it does examine racism. And you are afraid of THAT?
The solution to racism isn't more racism but that's exactly what Kendi pushes.
I am not afraid for my kids to hear different viewpoints. That is the essence of America.
You seem to prefer a Russian style government.
I prefer a government (schools) that doesn't try to convince my kids that racism against them is good which is what our kid's middle school did a few years ago.
This topic is about book banning. I'm not sure how the above comment relates. I would venture to guess that it's a confused RWNJ that can't stay on topic.
I'm a liberal Democrat. And if you were more liberal (like me) you would have better critical thinking skills to be able to link these subjects. But since you don't, I'll just tell you. Our kids' school used BOOKS by a known racist to try to indoctrinate then into believing that racism against people who look like them is good. That book, Kendi's Stamped, has no place in schools.
The only people pushing the "Kendi is a racist" line are racists. It's a silly, reductive argument.
You'd be more credible if you could posit a more intelligent critique of the book.
Kendi says that discrimination against whites (and probably Asians) is a necessary component of anti-racism. This is illiberal and racist.
It helps if you actually give quotes from the book. And then give your response to why what he is arguing what he is arguing is wrong.
Am a white person who read Stamped several years ago and did not come away feeling personally attacked as apparently you did. Self-reflective, yes. Which isn’t a bad thing.
Then again I grew up in the 70s and 80s and remember how prevalent causal white racism against non-white people was. All you need to do is what some of the big movies of the era. That’s not all that long ago and many of the people who made made racist comments in my company are still alive. Some of them are my generation and maybe they’ve learned better. Or learned not to make such comments anymore. But ask any of your Black or Latino or Asian friends and relatives what kind of racism they’ve encountered just in the past 5 years and then listen to them.
I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.
You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"
Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.
Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.
I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?
Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.
That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?
It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.
Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.
Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.
DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?
So what do you think the process should be?
I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.
So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.
That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?
Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?
PP. I don't know, but I find it abhorrent that one person can have that much influence. It sets a bad precedent since, as I said, that one person could file a complaint against literally anything at all.
I'm in the "trust your local librarian" camp, sorry. I don't think they're all in the job to corrupt children. My best friend is an elementary school librarian, and I know several others, and the idea that they are corrupting young minds with filth seems quite the stretch to me.
I want to agree with you. But our kids' school librarian (a far-leftist) convinced the principal to do a school-wide read of Kendi's Stamped and give lessons on Kendi's brand of anti-racism. If you don't know Kendi, he is a horrible racist who says that racial discrimination is a necessary component of anti-racism. The librarian and principal said they would make the entire school anti-racist in this mold. This is insane, illiberal, and racist. So my blank check for schools and librarians was cased that year. I'm now keeping an eye on everyone who teaches my kids. And I support that right for everyone. I suppose the door is open for abuse but that's more on the school administration's inability to deal with removal requests. The alternative you provide leaves the door open for lunatics with an agenda to go unchecked.
OmG you are afraid of your kids reading Stamped? It is a high school AP book.
Certainly not porn. But it does examine racism. And you are afraid of THAT?
The solution to racism isn't more racism but that's exactly what Kendi pushes.
I am not afraid for my kids to hear different viewpoints. That is the essence of America.
You seem to prefer a Russian style government.
I prefer a government (schools) that doesn't try to convince my kids that racism against them is good which is what our kid's middle school did a few years ago.
This topic is about book banning. I'm not sure how the above comment relates. I would venture to guess that it's a confused RWNJ that can't stay on topic.
I'm a liberal Democrat. And if you were more liberal (like me) you would have better critical thinking skills to be able to link these subjects. But since you don't, I'll just tell you. Our kids' school used BOOKS by a known racist to try to indoctrinate then into believing that racism against people who look like them is good. That book, Kendi's Stamped, has no place in schools.
Why are you telling me your bona fides instead of just getting to the point? Sounds more like a RWNJ or AI posing as a "liberal Democrat" - both are incapable of producing original thought. Well, the AI might eventually but not too much hope for the RWNJ.
I agree with what others have said earlier. I'm okay with books that I don't agree with being on shelves. The merits of the book and its idea will come out through CRITICAL THINKING. Your method is to stick your kid's head in the sand.
I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.
You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"
Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.
Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.
I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?
Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.
That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?
It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.
Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.
Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.
DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?
So what do you think the process should be?
I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.
So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.
That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?
Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?
PP. I don't know, but I find it abhorrent that one person can have that much influence. It sets a bad precedent since, as I said, that one person could file a complaint against literally anything at all.
I'm in the "trust your local librarian" camp, sorry. I don't think they're all in the job to corrupt children. My best friend is an elementary school librarian, and I know several others, and the idea that they are corrupting young minds with filth seems quite the stretch to me.
I want to agree with you. But our kids' school librarian (a far-leftist) convinced the principal to do a school-wide read of Kendi's Stamped and give lessons on Kendi's brand of anti-racism. If you don't know Kendi, he is a horrible racist who says that racial discrimination is a necessary component of anti-racism. The librarian and principal said they would make the entire school anti-racist in this mold. This is insane, illiberal, and racist. So my blank check for schools and librarians was cased that year. I'm now keeping an eye on everyone who teaches my kids. And I support that right for everyone. I suppose the door is open for abuse but that's more on the school administration's inability to deal with removal requests. The alternative you provide leaves the door open for lunatics with an agenda to go unchecked.
OmG you are afraid of your kids reading Stamped? It is a high school AP book.
Certainly not porn. But it does examine racism. And you are afraid of THAT?
The solution to racism isn't more racism but that's exactly what Kendi pushes.
I am not afraid for my kids to hear different viewpoints. That is the essence of America.
You seem to prefer a Russian style government.
I prefer a government (schools) that doesn't try to convince my kids that racism against them is good which is what our kid's middle school did a few years ago.
This topic is about book banning. I'm not sure how the above comment relates. I would venture to guess that it's a confused RWNJ that can't stay on topic.
I'm a liberal Democrat. And if you were more liberal (like me) you would have better critical thinking skills to be able to link these subjects. But since you don't, I'll just tell you. Our kids' school used BOOKS by a known racist to try to indoctrinate then into believing that racism against people who look like them is good. That book, Kendi's Stamped, has no place in schools.
The only people pushing the "Kendi is a racist" line are racists. It's a silly, reductive argument.
You'd be more credible if you could posit a more intelligent critique of the book.
Kendi says that discrimination against whites (and probably Asians) is a necessary component of anti-racism. This is illiberal and racist.
It helps if you actually give quotes from the book. And then give your response to why what he is arguing what he is arguing is wrong.
Am a white person who read Stamped several years ago and did not come away feeling personally attacked as apparently you did. Self-reflective, yes. Which isn’t a bad thing.
Then again I grew up in the 70s and 80s and remember how prevalent causal white racism against non-white people was. All you need to do is what some of the big movies of the era. That’s not all that long ago and many of the people who made made racist comments in my company are still alive. Some of them are my generation and maybe they’ve learned better. Or learned not to make such comments anymore. But ask any of your Black or Latino or Asian friends and relatives what kind of racism they’ve encountered just in the past 5 years and then listen to them.
"The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination." And do I have to explain why discrimination is wrong?
As for your next part you are describing individual racism which is bad but exists in every segment of society. Kendi is more concerned with systemic racism which he describes as any law or policy that does not close the gap between blacks and whites. Laws written as Kendi would have them would require discrimination (as he says in his quote above) which is illiberal and insane. It would also destroy western civilization.
I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.
You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"
Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.
Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.
I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?
Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.
That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?
It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.
Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.
Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.
DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?
So what do you think the process should be?
I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.
So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.
That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?
Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?
PP. I don't know, but I find it abhorrent that one person can have that much influence. It sets a bad precedent since, as I said, that one person could file a complaint against literally anything at all.
I'm in the "trust your local librarian" camp, sorry. I don't think they're all in the job to corrupt children. My best friend is an elementary school librarian, and I know several others, and the idea that they are corrupting young minds with filth seems quite the stretch to me.
I want to agree with you. But our kids' school librarian (a far-leftist) convinced the principal to do a school-wide read of Kendi's Stamped and give lessons on Kendi's brand of anti-racism. If you don't know Kendi, he is a horrible racist who says that racial discrimination is a necessary component of anti-racism. The librarian and principal said they would make the entire school anti-racist in this mold. This is insane, illiberal, and racist. So my blank check for schools and librarians was cased that year. I'm now keeping an eye on everyone who teaches my kids. And I support that right for everyone. I suppose the door is open for abuse but that's more on the school administration's inability to deal with removal requests. The alternative you provide leaves the door open for lunatics with an agenda to go unchecked.
OmG you are afraid of your kids reading Stamped? It is a high school AP book.
Certainly not porn. But it does examine racism. And you are afraid of THAT?
The solution to racism isn't more racism but that's exactly what Kendi pushes.
I am not afraid for my kids to hear different viewpoints. That is the essence of America.
You seem to prefer a Russian style government.
I prefer a government (schools) that doesn't try to convince my kids that racism against them is good which is what our kid's middle school did a few years ago.
This topic is about book banning. I'm not sure how the above comment relates. I would venture to guess that it's a confused RWNJ that can't stay on topic.
I'm a liberal Democrat. And if you were more liberal (like me) you would have better critical thinking skills to be able to link these subjects. But since you don't, I'll just tell you. Our kids' school used BOOKS by a known racist to try to indoctrinate then into believing that racism against people who look like them is good. That book, Kendi's Stamped, has no place in schools.
Why are you telling me your bona fides instead of just getting to the point? Sounds more like a RWNJ or AI posing as a "liberal Democrat" - both are incapable of producing original thought. Well, the AI might eventually but not too much hope for the RWNJ.
I agree with what others have said earlier. I'm okay with books that I don't agree with being on shelves. The merits of the book and its idea will come out through CRITICAL THINKING. Your method is to stick your kid's head in the sand.
I was responding to the accusations "I would venture to guess that it's a confused RWNJ that can't stay on topic." If you were not that PP you should read previous comments so you don't make dumb comments like you did here. And would you be OK with a school teaching a book about how black people are lazy and commit a lot of crime? Would the merits of that come out through critical thinking?
I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.
You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"
Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.
Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.
I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?
Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.
That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?
It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.
Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.
Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.
DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?
So what do you think the process should be?
I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.
So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.
That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?
Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?
PP. I don't know, but I find it abhorrent that one person can have that much influence. It sets a bad precedent since, as I said, that one person could file a complaint against literally anything at all.
I'm in the "trust your local librarian" camp, sorry. I don't think they're all in the job to corrupt children. My best friend is an elementary school librarian, and I know several others, and the idea that they are corrupting young minds with filth seems quite the stretch to me.
I want to agree with you. But our kids' school librarian (a far-leftist) convinced the principal to do a school-wide read of Kendi's Stamped and give lessons on Kendi's brand of anti-racism. If you don't know Kendi, he is a horrible racist who says that racial discrimination is a necessary component of anti-racism. The librarian and principal said they would make the entire school anti-racist in this mold. This is insane, illiberal, and racist. So my blank check for schools and librarians was cased that year. I'm now keeping an eye on everyone who teaches my kids. And I support that right for everyone. I suppose the door is open for abuse but that's more on the school administration's inability to deal with removal requests. The alternative you provide leaves the door open for lunatics with an agenda to go unchecked.
OmG you are afraid of your kids reading Stamped? It is a high school AP book.
Certainly not porn. But it does examine racism. And you are afraid of THAT?
The solution to racism isn't more racism but that's exactly what Kendi pushes.
I am not afraid for my kids to hear different viewpoints. That is the essence of America.
You seem to prefer a Russian style government.
I prefer a government (schools) that doesn't try to convince my kids that racism against them is good which is what our kid's middle school did a few years ago.
This topic is about book banning. I'm not sure how the above comment relates. I would venture to guess that it's a confused RWNJ that can't stay on topic.
I'm a liberal Democrat. And if you were more liberal (like me) you would have better critical thinking skills to be able to link these subjects. But since you don't, I'll just tell you. Our kids' school used BOOKS by a known racist to try to indoctrinate then into believing that racism against people who look like them is good. That book, Kendi's Stamped, has no place in schools.
Why are you telling me your bona fides instead of just getting to the point? Sounds more like a RWNJ or AI posing as a "liberal Democrat" - both are incapable of producing original thought. Well, the AI might eventually but not too much hope for the RWNJ.
I agree with what others have said earlier. I'm okay with books that I don't agree with being on shelves. The merits of the book and its idea will come out through CRITICAL THINKING. Your method is to stick your kid's head in the sand.
I was responding to the accusations "I would venture to guess that it's a confused RWNJ that can't stay on topic." If you were not that PP you should read previous comments so you don't make dumb comments like you did here. And would you be OK with a school teaching a book about how black people are lazy and commit a lot of crime? Would the merits of that come out through critical thinking?
I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.
You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"
Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.
Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.
I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?
Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.
That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?
It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.
Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.
Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.
DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?
So what do you think the process should be?
I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.
So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.
That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?
Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?
PP. I don't know, but I find it abhorrent that one person can have that much influence. It sets a bad precedent since, as I said, that one person could file a complaint against literally anything at all.
I'm in the "trust your local librarian" camp, sorry. I don't think they're all in the job to corrupt children. My best friend is an elementary school librarian, and I know several others, and the idea that they are corrupting young minds with filth seems quite the stretch to me.
I want to agree with you. But our kids' school librarian (a far-leftist) convinced the principal to do a school-wide read of Kendi's Stamped and give lessons on Kendi's brand of anti-racism. If you don't know Kendi, he is a horrible racist who says that racial discrimination is a necessary component of anti-racism. The librarian and principal said they would make the entire school anti-racist in this mold. This is insane, illiberal, and racist. So my blank check for schools and librarians was cased that year. I'm now keeping an eye on everyone who teaches my kids. And I support that right for everyone. I suppose the door is open for abuse but that's more on the school administration's inability to deal with removal requests. The alternative you provide leaves the door open for lunatics with an agenda to go unchecked.
OmG you are afraid of your kids reading Stamped? It is a high school AP book.
Certainly not porn. But it does examine racism. And you are afraid of THAT?
The solution to racism isn't more racism but that's exactly what Kendi pushes.
I am not afraid for my kids to hear different viewpoints. That is the essence of America.
You seem to prefer a Russian style government.
I prefer a government (schools) that doesn't try to convince my kids that racism against them is good which is what our kid's middle school did a few years ago.
This topic is about book banning. I'm not sure how the above comment relates. I would venture to guess that it's a confused RWNJ that can't stay on topic.
I'm a liberal Democrat. And if you were more liberal (like me) you would have better critical thinking skills to be able to link these subjects. But since you don't, I'll just tell you. Our kids' school used BOOKS by a known racist to try to indoctrinate then into believing that racism against people who look like them is good. That book, Kendi's Stamped, has no place in schools.
Why are you telling me your bona fides instead of just getting to the point? Sounds more like a RWNJ or AI posing as a "liberal Democrat" - both are incapable of producing original thought. Well, the AI might eventually but not too much hope for the RWNJ.
I agree with what others have said earlier. I'm okay with books that I don't agree with being on shelves. The merits of the book and its idea will come out through CRITICAL THINKING. Your method is to stick your kid's head in the sand.
I was responding to the accusations "I would venture to guess that it's a confused RWNJ that can't stay on topic." If you were not that PP you should read previous comments so you don't make dumb comments like you did here. And would you be OK with a school teaching a book about how black people are lazy and commit a lot of crime? Would the merits of that come out through critical thinking?
Books on shelves DOES NOT EQUAL school teaching.
Oh sure. I was just relating how our kids' middle school used a book to promote racism in the classroom. But again, would you like books like I described above school bookshelves?
I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.
You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"
Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.
Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.
I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?
Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.
That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?
It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.
Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.
Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.
DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?
So what do you think the process should be?
I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.
So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.
That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?
Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?
PP. I don't know, but I find it abhorrent that one person can have that much influence. It sets a bad precedent since, as I said, that one person could file a complaint against literally anything at all.
I'm in the "trust your local librarian" camp, sorry. I don't think they're all in the job to corrupt children. My best friend is an elementary school librarian, and I know several others, and the idea that they are corrupting young minds with filth seems quite the stretch to me.
I want to agree with you. But our kids' school librarian (a far-leftist) convinced the principal to do a school-wide read of Kendi's Stamped and give lessons on Kendi's brand of anti-racism. If you don't know Kendi, he is a horrible racist who says that racial discrimination is a necessary component of anti-racism. The librarian and principal said they would make the entire school anti-racist in this mold. This is insane, illiberal, and racist. So my blank check for schools and librarians was cased that year. I'm now keeping an eye on everyone who teaches my kids. And I support that right for everyone. I suppose the door is open for abuse but that's more on the school administration's inability to deal with removal requests. The alternative you provide leaves the door open for lunatics with an agenda to go unchecked.
OmG you are afraid of your kids reading Stamped? It is a high school AP book.
Certainly not porn. But it does examine racism. And you are afraid of THAT?
The solution to racism isn't more racism but that's exactly what Kendi pushes.
I am not afraid for my kids to hear different viewpoints. That is the essence of America.
You seem to prefer a Russian style government.
I prefer a government (schools) that doesn't try to convince my kids that racism against them is good which is what our kid's middle school did a few years ago.
This topic is about book banning. I'm not sure how the above comment relates. I would venture to guess that it's a confused RWNJ that can't stay on topic.
I'm a liberal Democrat. And if you were more liberal (like me) you would have better critical thinking skills to be able to link these subjects. But since you don't, I'll just tell you. Our kids' school used BOOKS by a known racist to try to indoctrinate then into believing that racism against people who look like them is good. That book, Kendi's Stamped, has no place in schools.
Why are you telling me your bona fides instead of just getting to the point? Sounds more like a RWNJ or AI posing as a "liberal Democrat" - both are incapable of producing original thought. Well, the AI might eventually but not too much hope for the RWNJ.
I agree with what others have said earlier. I'm okay with books that I don't agree with being on shelves. The merits of the book and its idea will come out through CRITICAL THINKING. Your method is to stick your kid's head in the sand.
I was responding to the accusations "I would venture to guess that it's a confused RWNJ that can't stay on topic." If you were not that PP you should read previous comments so you don't make dumb comments like you did here. And would you be OK with a school teaching a book about how black people are lazy and commit a lot of crime? Would the merits of that come out through critical thinking?
Books on shelves DOES NOT EQUAL school teaching.
Oh sure. I was just relating how our kids' middle school used a book to promote racism in the classroom. But again, would you like books like I described above school bookshelves?
Yes. I would. Knowledge is power. Even if you disagree with the premise.
Tons of books have depictions of Jews and Blacks being discriminated against so people can understand our history.
I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.
You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"
Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.
Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.
I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?
Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.
That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?
It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.
Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.
Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.
DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?
So what do you think the process should be?
I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.
So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.
That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?
Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?
PP. I don't know, but I find it abhorrent that one person can have that much influence. It sets a bad precedent since, as I said, that one person could file a complaint against literally anything at all.
I'm in the "trust your local librarian" camp, sorry. I don't think they're all in the job to corrupt children. My best friend is an elementary school librarian, and I know several others, and the idea that they are corrupting young minds with filth seems quite the stretch to me.
I want to agree with you. But our kids' school librarian (a far-leftist) convinced the principal to do a school-wide read of Kendi's Stamped and give lessons on Kendi's brand of anti-racism. If you don't know Kendi, he is a horrible racist who says that racial discrimination is a necessary component of anti-racism. The librarian and principal said they would make the entire school anti-racist in this mold. This is insane, illiberal, and racist. So my blank check for schools and librarians was cased that year. I'm now keeping an eye on everyone who teaches my kids. And I support that right for everyone. I suppose the door is open for abuse but that's more on the school administration's inability to deal with removal requests. The alternative you provide leaves the door open for lunatics with an agenda to go unchecked.
OmG you are afraid of your kids reading Stamped? It is a high school AP book.
Certainly not porn. But it does examine racism. And you are afraid of THAT?
The solution to racism isn't more racism but that's exactly what Kendi pushes.
I am not afraid for my kids to hear different viewpoints. That is the essence of America.
You seem to prefer a Russian style government.
I prefer a government (schools) that doesn't try to convince my kids that racism against them is good which is what our kid's middle school did a few years ago.
This topic is about book banning. I'm not sure how the above comment relates. I would venture to guess that it's a confused RWNJ that can't stay on topic.
I'm a liberal Democrat. And if you were more liberal (like me) you would have better critical thinking skills to be able to link these subjects. But since you don't, I'll just tell you. Our kids' school used BOOKS by a known racist to try to indoctrinate then into believing that racism against people who look like them is good. That book, Kendi's Stamped, has no place in schools.
Why are you telling me your bona fides instead of just getting to the point? Sounds more like a RWNJ or AI posing as a "liberal Democrat" - both are incapable of producing original thought. Well, the AI might eventually but not too much hope for the RWNJ.
I agree with what others have said earlier. I'm okay with books that I don't agree with being on shelves. The merits of the book and its idea will come out through CRITICAL THINKING. Your method is to stick your kid's head in the sand.
I was responding to the accusations "I would venture to guess that it's a confused RWNJ that can't stay on topic." If you were not that PP you should read previous comments so you don't make dumb comments like you did here. And would you be OK with a school teaching a book about how black people are lazy and commit a lot of crime? Would the merits of that come out through critical thinking?
Books on shelves DOES NOT EQUAL school teaching.
Oh sure. I was just relating how our kids' middle school used a book to promote racism in the classroom. But again, would you like books like I described above school bookshelves?
Yes. I would. Knowledge is power. Even if you disagree with the premise.
Tons of books have depictions of Jews and Blacks being discriminated against so people can understand our history.
At least you're consistent. I OTOH do not believe we should encourage kids to read books with messages and themes that encourage racism by including them on school bookshelves.
I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.
You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"
Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.
Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.
I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?
Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.
That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?
It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.
Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.
Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.
DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?
So what do you think the process should be?
I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.
So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.
That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?
Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?
PP. I don't know, but I find it abhorrent that one person can have that much influence. It sets a bad precedent since, as I said, that one person could file a complaint against literally anything at all.
I'm in the "trust your local librarian" camp, sorry. I don't think they're all in the job to corrupt children. My best friend is an elementary school librarian, and I know several others, and the idea that they are corrupting young minds with filth seems quite the stretch to me.
I want to agree with you. But our kids' school librarian (a far-leftist) convinced the principal to do a school-wide read of Kendi's Stamped and give lessons on Kendi's brand of anti-racism. If you don't know Kendi, he is a horrible racist who says that racial discrimination is a necessary component of anti-racism. The librarian and principal said they would make the entire school anti-racist in this mold. This is insane, illiberal, and racist. So my blank check for schools and librarians was cased that year. I'm now keeping an eye on everyone who teaches my kids. And I support that right for everyone. I suppose the door is open for abuse but that's more on the school administration's inability to deal with removal requests. The alternative you provide leaves the door open for lunatics with an agenda to go unchecked.
OmG you are afraid of your kids reading Stamped? It is a high school AP book.
Certainly not porn. But it does examine racism. And you are afraid of THAT?
The solution to racism isn't more racism but that's exactly what Kendi pushes.
I am not afraid for my kids to hear different viewpoints. That is the essence of America.
You seem to prefer a Russian style government.
I prefer a government (schools) that doesn't try to convince my kids that racism against them is good which is what our kid's middle school did a few years ago.
This topic is about book banning. I'm not sure how the above comment relates. I would venture to guess that it's a confused RWNJ that can't stay on topic.
I'm a liberal Democrat. And if you were more liberal (like me) you would have better critical thinking skills to be able to link these subjects. But since you don't, I'll just tell you. Our kids' school used BOOKS by a known racist to try to indoctrinate then into believing that racism against people who look like them is good. That book, Kendi's Stamped, has no place in schools.
Why are you telling me your bona fides instead of just getting to the point? Sounds more like a RWNJ or AI posing as a "liberal Democrat" - both are incapable of producing original thought. Well, the AI might eventually but not too much hope for the RWNJ.
I agree with what others have said earlier. I'm okay with books that I don't agree with being on shelves. The merits of the book and its idea will come out through CRITICAL THINKING. Your method is to stick your kid's head in the sand.
I was responding to the accusations "I would venture to guess that it's a confused RWNJ that can't stay on topic." If you were not that PP you should read previous comments so you don't make dumb comments like you did here. And would you be OK with a school teaching a book about how black people are lazy and commit a lot of crime? Would the merits of that come out through critical thinking?
Books on shelves DOES NOT EQUAL school teaching.
Oh sure. I was just relating how our kids' middle school used a book to promote racism in the classroom. But again, would you like books like I described above school bookshelves?
Yes. I would. Knowledge is power. Even if you disagree with the premise.
Tons of books have depictions of Jews and Blacks being discriminated against so people can understand our history.
At least you're consistent. I OTOH do not believe we should encourage kids to read books with messages and themes that encourage racism by including them on school bookshelves.
Reading difficult subjects makes an intelligent mind.
I want differing perspectives on the school library shelves for my children to read. Your children don't have to.
I trust the librarian to curate the collection.
Anonymous wrote:I want differing perspectives on the school library shelves for my children to read. Your children don't have to.
I trust the librarian to curate the collection.
I used to trust school librarians as well until I discovered that ours is a delusional racist. Now I don't trust them.
I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.
You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"
Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.
Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.
I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?
Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.
That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?
It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.
Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.
Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.
DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?
So what do you think the process should be?
I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.
So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.
That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?
Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?
PP. I don't know, but I find it abhorrent that one person can have that much influence. It sets a bad precedent since, as I said, that one person could file a complaint against literally anything at all.
I'm in the "trust your local librarian" camp, sorry. I don't think they're all in the job to corrupt children. My best friend is an elementary school librarian, and I know several others, and the idea that they are corrupting young minds with filth seems quite the stretch to me.
I want to agree with you. But our kids' school librarian (a far-leftist) convinced the principal to do a school-wide read of Kendi's Stamped and give lessons on Kendi's brand of anti-racism. If you don't know Kendi, he is a horrible racist who says that racial discrimination is a necessary component of anti-racism. The librarian and principal said they would make the entire school anti-racist in this mold. This is insane, illiberal, and racist. So my blank check for schools and librarians was cased that year. I'm now keeping an eye on everyone who teaches my kids. And I support that right for everyone. I suppose the door is open for abuse but that's more on the school administration's inability to deal with removal requests. The alternative you provide leaves the door open for lunatics with an agenda to go unchecked.
OmG you are afraid of your kids reading Stamped? It is a high school AP book.
Certainly not porn. But it does examine racism. And you are afraid of THAT?
The solution to racism isn't more racism but that's exactly what Kendi pushes.
I am not afraid for my kids to hear different viewpoints. That is the essence of America.
You seem to prefer a Russian style government.
I prefer a government (schools) that doesn't try to convince my kids that racism against them is good which is what our kid's middle school did a few years ago.
This topic is about book banning. I'm not sure how the above comment relates. I would venture to guess that it's a confused RWNJ that can't stay on topic.
I'm a liberal Democrat. And if you were more liberal (like me) you would have better critical thinking skills to be able to link these subjects. But since you don't, I'll just tell you. Our kids' school used BOOKS by a known racist to try to indoctrinate then into believing that racism against people who look like them is good. That book, Kendi's Stamped, has no place in schools.
The only people pushing the "Kendi is a racist" line are racists. It's a silly, reductive argument.
You'd be more credible if you could posit a more intelligent critique of the book.
Kendi says that discrimination against whites (and probably Asians) is a necessary component of anti-racism. This is illiberal and racist.
It helps if you actually give quotes from the book. And then give your response to why what he is arguing what he is arguing is wrong.
Am a white person who read Stamped several years ago and did not come away feeling personally attacked as apparently you did. Self-reflective, yes. Which isn’t a bad thing.
Then again I grew up in the 70s and 80s and remember how prevalent causal white racism against non-white people was. All you need to do is what some of the big movies of the era. That’s not all that long ago and many of the people who made made racist comments in my company are still alive. Some of them are my generation and maybe they’ve learned better. Or learned not to make such comments anymore. But ask any of your Black or Latino or Asian friends and relatives what kind of racism they’ve encountered just in the past 5 years and then listen to them.
"The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination." And do I have to explain why discrimination is wrong?
As for your next part you are describing individual racism which is bad but exists in every segment of society. Kendi is more concerned with systemic racism which he describes as any law or policy that does not close the gap between blacks and whites. Laws written as Kendi would have them would require discrimination (as he says in his quote above) which is illiberal and insane. It would also destroy western civilization.
Now why do I suspect that you haven’t actually read the book…
Anonymous wrote:I want differing perspectives on the school library shelves for my children to read. Your children don't have to.
I trust the librarian to curate the collection.
I used to trust school librarians as well until I discovered that ours is a delusional racist. Now I don't trust them.
Your solution is to punish students and their families.
Anonymous wrote:I want differing perspectives on the school library shelves for my children to read. Your children don't have to.
I trust the librarian to curate the collection.
I used to trust school librarians as well until I discovered that ours is a delusional racist. Now I don't trust them.
I’m so sick of people misrepresenting arguments and pretending to take the high road.
You mean the way leftists misrepresent the curation of school library collections as "book bans?"
Curation should be done librarians for the benefit of the schoolchildren - not Fox News addled nincompoops who've never read a book on their own.
Can you vote a single example of a parent walking into a school and unilaterally taking books out of a library? If not, your simply spouting nonsense. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm a Democrat. As such, I don't watch much Fox News.
I don't know of anyplace in the US where someone other then the superintendent can unilaterally remove a book from school circulation. Was that the case here?
Stop embarrassing yourself. States like Florida have written laws that say any person can object to a book and have it removed from schools.
That sounds false. Can you quote the statute?
It sounds false because it's utterly preposterous, yet it's true. And easily found.
HB 1069. Specifically:
Any material that is subject to an objection on the basis of sub-sub-subparagraph b.(I) or sub-sub-subparagraph b.(II) must be removed within 5 school days of receipt of the objection and remain unavailable to students of that school until the objection is resolved.
Spoiler alert - they aren't exactly going lickety split to resolve these objections. And yes, any objection. By anyone. Using their website and filling out a form, which is the other part of the bill.
Ah, thank you. So the removal is temporary until reviewed by the school district. Sounds good. The way to prevent this would be for the school district to review all books before putting them in the shelves.
DP. Temporary until they get around to reviewing it. And they can put that effort off as long as they want. Particularly when they are inundated with thousands of requests, often by just a handful of people.
Please do tell me what is objectionable about poetry by Maya Angelou (her poetry was a staple in my high school forensics competitions in the '90), or books by Judy Blume, or biographies of Harriett Tubman, Malala Yousafzai, various civil rights leaders, etc. How about Anne Frank?
So what do you think the process should be?
I'm the PP. I do NOT think that the process should give way to a very small handful of people (in some states, hundreds of complaints have been filed by only 2 or 3 people, who clearly have far too much time on their hands) who are then allowed to essentially hold books hostage for an indeterminate amount of time.
And, again, please instruct me as to the issues with the topics/authors I mentioned in my previous post. I'd guarantee that books about Malala or Ruby Bridges have nothing to do with porn. And Judy Blume has been in school libraries for decades. As have Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou.
So you don't want anyone to be able to question a book ina school library. Got it. And I don't have a problem with any of the books you mentioned. There are some authors that promote racism like Kendi and Jewell, so their books probably don't belong in schools either but I have less of an issue with those.
That isn't what I said. Reading comprehension matters. But the process in some places right now is such that, if I file a complaint against something like "The Little Engine that Could" in X county, that title is automatically pulled from all shelves in X County Public Schools until some entity associated with the school system gets around to performing a full review of the book. That review could be tomorrow, or it could be months from now...or longer. Who knows.
One person has the power to file a complaint against absolutely any book in a school library, and that book is pulled automatically for an indeterminate amount of time, no questions asked. You...don't see a problem with that? Or are you OK with it, provided titles you prefer aren't targeted?
Again, what do you want the process to be? Do you want 4 or 5 people to have to file the same complaint against the same book?
PP. I don't know, but I find it abhorrent that one person can have that much influence. It sets a bad precedent since, as I said, that one person could file a complaint against literally anything at all.
I'm in the "trust your local librarian" camp, sorry. I don't think they're all in the job to corrupt children. My best friend is an elementary school librarian, and I know several others, and the idea that they are corrupting young minds with filth seems quite the stretch to me.
I want to agree with you. But our kids' school librarian (a far-leftist) convinced the principal to do a school-wide read of Kendi's Stamped and give lessons on Kendi's brand of anti-racism. If you don't know Kendi, he is a horrible racist who says that racial discrimination is a necessary component of anti-racism. The librarian and principal said they would make the entire school anti-racist in this mold. This is insane, illiberal, and racist. So my blank check for schools and librarians was cased that year. I'm now keeping an eye on everyone who teaches my kids. And I support that right for everyone. I suppose the door is open for abuse but that's more on the school administration's inability to deal with removal requests. The alternative you provide leaves the door open for lunatics with an agenda to go unchecked.
OmG you are afraid of your kids reading Stamped? It is a high school AP book.
Certainly not porn. But it does examine racism. And you are afraid of THAT?
The solution to racism isn't more racism but that's exactly what Kendi pushes.
I am not afraid for my kids to hear different viewpoints. That is the essence of America.
You seem to prefer a Russian style government.
I prefer a government (schools) that doesn't try to convince my kids that racism against them is good which is what our kid's middle school did a few years ago.
This topic is about book banning. I'm not sure how the above comment relates. I would venture to guess that it's a confused RWNJ that can't stay on topic.
I'm a liberal Democrat. And if you were more liberal (like me) you would have better critical thinking skills to be able to link these subjects. But since you don't, I'll just tell you. Our kids' school used BOOKS by a known racist to try to indoctrinate then into believing that racism against people who look like them is good. That book, Kendi's Stamped, has no place in schools.
The only people pushing the "Kendi is a racist" line are racists. It's a silly, reductive argument.
You'd be more credible if you could posit a more intelligent critique of the book.
Kendi says that discrimination against whites (and probably Asians) is a necessary component of anti-racism. This is illiberal and racist.
It helps if you actually give quotes from the book. And then give your response to why what he is arguing what he is arguing is wrong.
Am a white person who read Stamped several years ago and did not come away feeling personally attacked as apparently you did. Self-reflective, yes. Which isn’t a bad thing.
Then again I grew up in the 70s and 80s and remember how prevalent causal white racism against non-white people was. All you need to do is what some of the big movies of the era. That’s not all that long ago and many of the people who made made racist comments in my company are still alive. Some of them are my generation and maybe they’ve learned better. Or learned not to make such comments anymore. But ask any of your Black or Latino or Asian friends and relatives what kind of racism they’ve encountered just in the past 5 years and then listen to them.
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