The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's all in how you look at it. Like I said earlier, Portia needs to take control of her life. If she doesn't like her job, fine, she needs to move on. Or take control of the job she does have so that she enjoys it more and can push back where it's important to her.

That's fine, but to compare her to Harper in terms of privilege is ridiculous. One is there for work and could never afford the experiences she is having on her own dime, the other is there for pleasure and has wealth that is unimaginable to most people. Portia is young and still finding her way, this bootstrappy attitude that a lot of people seem to have her is puzzling to me. I suppose more people here relate to the rich yet unhappy Harper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd love to get paid to go to Italy and sit on the balcony in my room and charge food. Please take me there.

No you wouldn't. You would chafe because you'd want to be out doing stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love how Mike White randomly drops red pills in this season and last season. The British nephew giving some well needed perspective and context to rebuke Portia’s woke prattling about the world falling apart is a prime example.

Yes telling a woke millennial have the quality and safety of life - for all- is at all time human history highs in 2022 was awesome perspective.

wait i didn't catch this part - what happened / what did he say?

It was the first scene after he took Portia out with his “uncle’s” car so that his “uncle” could get Tanya high at the party. They’re drinking overlooking a gorgeous seaside town and Portia is ranting about how the world is falling apart and it’s the worst it’s ever been. The British kid, rightly, calls what she’s saying BS and asks her if she’d rather live in the Dark Ages when people were cutting each other to bits and points around and says the world is pretty good right now. And he’s right. Someone like Portia would be dead by 35 and live an utterly depressing life centuries ago. Yet she’s complaining about how much the world sucks while drinking a cocktail in a beach in Sicily. She had utterly no sense of appreciation or historical context, like a lot of woke kids these days.

I think the show is definitely mocking people like Portia and Harper who live extremely privileged lives but make statements like "the world is on fire" or "with everything going on in the world" (from Harper's first conversation with Daphne/Cameron) without much sense of history or context.

But I don't think the show is sympathetic to people like Daphne and Tanya and Essex boy who don't think about anything beyond their own day-to-day comfort and wellbeing. More understandable for Essex boy - he has had real struggles and can probably be forgiven for not worrying about climate change or whatever when he's just thankful to know where his next meal is coming from. But being someone like Daphne who just lives her super privileged life without ever thinking about the state of the world or how to improve it is not something to aspire to either.

I don't think you can really talk about Portia and Harper's privilege in the same breath. Harper is a lawyer married to a tech milliionaire at the White Lotus on vacation. Portia is at the hotel as the dogsbody to an odious woman.

True but compared to 95% of people in the world, she has a lot of privilege. Also her job seems kind of easy - she literally does nothing to help Tanya

Well, sure, but then the employees at the hotel have a lot of privilege, if that's the standard. The hookers even have a lot of privilege, as they are not starving refugees.

I mean yes they do. Do you not think they do? Lucia's embrace of s*x work seems very conscious and not something she is humiliated by or upset by. I still do not think the p*mp is real. The Essex boy basically says he knows he has privilege because he at one point was in a deep hole and now he's out of it. And maybe he's a s*x worker but he knows he is now travelling around on Italian yachts with this crew and he's fine. And yeah compared to a lot of the world the employees at the hotel DO have a lot of privilege. There is always someone who has it a lot worse and that is simultaneously not a reason to struggle with your own crap even if you have privilege but also an opportunity to never forget or take for granted what you DO have.

Living life well is in the balance of those principals, not letting hopelessness pull you down and make you selfish and ungrateful, and not allowing what you do have to make you blind to the struggles of others.

Every poster in this thread who I have been turned off by or vehemently disagreed with is a poster that wants someone or something in this story to be simply good or bad, right or wrong, black or white. The world is not broken up into dichotomies, but we wish it was because it feels good to choose something that is 'right' and it is more complicated to realize that every person is a mix of all those things.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd love to get paid to go to Italy and sit on the balcony in my room and charge food. Please take me there.

No you wouldn't. You would chafe because you'd want to be out doing stuff.

Please try me and take me there now I am begging you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all in how you look at it. Like I said earlier, Portia needs to take control of her life. If she doesn't like her job, fine, she needs to move on. Or take control of the job she does have so that she enjoys it more and can push back where it's important to her.

That's fine, but to compare her to Harper in terms of privilege is ridiculous. One is there for work and could never afford the experiences she is having on her own dime, the other is there for pleasure and has wealth that is unimaginable to most people. Portia is young and still finding her way, this bootstrappy attitude that a lot of people seem to have her is puzzling to me. I suppose more people here relate to the rich yet unhappy Harper.

I think there is a point that there are a LOT of people who don't understand just how hard is for so many people. And how hard it has been for SOOOOO many people in human history. This is just a truth.

I don't relate to rich and unhappy Harper, but Harper is not letting life take the reigns. She has a job and a career and she is having problems with her husband and facing them head on. She isn't tolerating crap she's calling him out. Like maybe not prepared to storm out of the vacation but she is not a doormat.

Portia is like, I mean I don't know you know people who sit around and whine about their lot in life without doing anything about it just aren't attractive. And that isn't just bootstraps. Portia is just...sitting around in the lap of luxury whining. While screwing around with a hot guy and being taken on dates and barely being asked to work. She complains about how her life is artificial and won't look away from her phone. People who sit around and complain constantly are annoying. It is what makes Harper annoying occasionally too, she just does it less and appears to also walk the walk a bit (donating/volunteering/etc). Mia and Lucia are ostensibly in a much less powerful position and yet they are not sitting around woe is me. They are making due with what they have. And even though they have 'worse' lives they are happier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd love to get paid to go to Italy and sit on the balcony in my room and charge food. Please take me there.

No you wouldn't. You would chafe because you'd want to be out doing stuff.

Please try me and take me there now I am begging you!

You would be the help and your room would have no balcony.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all in how you look at it. Like I said earlier, Portia needs to take control of her life. If she doesn't like her job, fine, she needs to move on. Or take control of the job she does have so that she enjoys it more and can push back where it's important to her.

That's fine, but to compare her to Harper in terms of privilege is ridiculous. One is there for work and could never afford the experiences she is having on her own dime, the other is there for pleasure and has wealth that is unimaginable to most people. Portia is young and still finding her way, this bootstrappy attitude that a lot of people seem to have her is puzzling to me. I suppose more people here relate to the rich yet unhappy Harper.

I think there is a point that there are a LOT of people who don't understand just how hard is for so many people. And how hard it has been for SOOOOO many people in human history. This is just a truth.

I don't relate to rich and unhappy Harper, but Harper is not letting life take the reigns. She has a job and a career and she is having problems with her husband and facing them head on. She isn't tolerating crap she's calling him out. Like maybe not prepared to storm out of the vacation but she is not a doormat.

Portia is like, I mean I don't know you know people who sit around and whine about their lot in life without doing anything about it just aren't attractive. And that isn't just bootstraps. Portia is just...sitting around in the lap of luxury whining. While screwing around with a hot guy and being taken on dates and barely being asked to work. She complains about how her life is artificial and won't look away from her phone. People who sit around and complain constantly are annoying. It is what makes Harper annoying occasionally too, she just does it less and appears to also walk the walk a bit (donating/volunteering/etc). Mia and Lucia are ostensibly in a much less powerful position and yet they are not sitting around woe is me. They are making due with what they have. And even though they have 'worse' lives they are happier.

It's "take the reins" and "make do."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all in how you look at it. Like I said earlier, Portia needs to take control of her life. If she doesn't like her job, fine, she needs to move on. Or take control of the job she does have so that she enjoys it more and can push back where it's important to her.

That's fine, but to compare her to Harper in terms of privilege is ridiculous. One is there for work and could never afford the experiences she is having on her own dime, the other is there for pleasure and has wealth that is unimaginable to most people. Portia is young and still finding her way, this bootstrappy attitude that a lot of people seem to have her is puzzling to me. I suppose more people here relate to the rich yet unhappy Harper.

I think there is a point that there are a LOT of people who don't understand just how hard is for so many people. And how hard it has been for SOOOOO many people in human history. This is just a truth.

I don't relate to rich and unhappy Harper, but Harper is not letting life take the reigns. She has a job and a career and she is having problems with her husband and facing them head on. She isn't tolerating crap she's calling him out. Like maybe not prepared to storm out of the vacation but she is not a doormat.

Portia is like, I mean I don't know you know people who sit around and whine about their lot in life without doing anything about it just aren't attractive. And that isn't just bootstraps. Portia is just...sitting around in the lap of luxury whining. While screwing around with a hot guy and being taken on dates and barely being asked to work. She complains about how her life is artificial and won't look away from her phone. People who sit around and complain constantly are annoying. It is what makes Harper annoying occasionally too, she just does it less and appears to also walk the walk a bit (donating/volunteering/etc). Mia and Lucia are ostensibly in a much less powerful position and yet they are not sitting around woe is me. They are making due with what they have. And even though they have 'worse' lives they are happier.

It's "take the reins" and "make do."

Sometimes I type too quickly and make mistakes You got me on both!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love how Mike White randomly drops red pills in this season and last season. The British nephew giving some well needed perspective and context to rebuke Portia’s woke prattling about the world falling apart is a prime example.

Yes telling a woke millennial have the quality and safety of life - for all- is at all time human history highs in 2022 was awesome perspective.

wait i didn't catch this part - what happened / what did he say?

It was the first scene after he took Portia out with his “uncle’s” car so that his “uncle” could get Tanya high at the party. They’re drinking overlooking a gorgeous seaside town and Portia is ranting about how the world is falling apart and it’s the worst it’s ever been. The British kid, rightly, calls what she’s saying BS and asks her if she’d rather live in the Dark Ages when people were cutting each other to bits and points around and says the world is pretty good right now. And he’s right. Someone like Portia would be dead by 35 and live an utterly depressing life centuries ago. Yet she’s complaining about how much the world sucks while drinking a cocktail in a beach in Sicily. She had utterly no sense of appreciation or historical context, like a lot of woke kids these days.

I think the show is definitely mocking people like Portia and Harper who live extremely privileged lives but make statements like "the world is on fire" or "with everything going on in the world" (from Harper's first conversation with Daphne/Cameron) without much sense of history or context.

But I don't think the show is sympathetic to people like Daphne and Tanya and Essex boy who don't think about anything beyond their own day-to-day comfort and wellbeing. More understandable for Essex boy - he has had real struggles and can probably be forgiven for not worrying about climate change or whatever when he's just thankful to know where his next meal is coming from. But being someone like Daphne who just lives her super privileged life without ever thinking about the state of the world or how to improve it is not something to aspire to either.

I don't think you can really talk about Portia and Harper's privilege in the same breath. Harper is a lawyer married to a tech milliionaire at the White Lotus on vacation. Portia is at the hotel as the dogsbody to an odious woman.

True but compared to 95% of people in the world, she has a lot of privilege. Also her job seems kind of easy - she literally does nothing to help Tanya

Well, sure, but then the employees at the hotel have a lot of privilege, if that's the standard. The hookers even have a lot of privilege, as they are not starving refugees.

Well it's in the context of her conversation with Jack, who has struggled much more than her. Obviously Harper has more privilege, I don't think anyone would contest that, but I think the show wants to make the same point about complaining about the world while in an objectively good situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd love to get paid to go to Italy and sit on the balcony in my room and charge food. Please take me there.

No you wouldn't. You would chafe because you'd want to be out doing stuff.

Please try me and take me there now I am begging you!

You would be the help and your room would have no balcony.

But I can have sex with a vacation fling multiple times while on the clock right? Including on an amazing yacht? And never even open a computer or make a single call or appointment?

I'm still in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very interesting interview with Aubrey Plaza on the Still Watching podcast today.

She says that Harper is not attracted to Cameron at all, he represents pretty much everything she hates, and the more she learns about him the more she dislikes him.

She says that a lot of Harper’s anger at Ethan about the night with Cameron is about how he is behaving so differently with Cameron than he does around her. Like with her he is withdrawn, unadventurous. He won’t even break his routines to have sex with her, he seems so disinterested in her. But with Cameron he’s doing molly and staying up all night? Contrast this with Harper’s night in Noto where, despite taking an edible she remains 100% the same person and is focused on getting home and communicating with Ethan.

Also says she thinks of the show like a 7 hour movie because of how she read the scripts (all at once) and that she is “scared” of the finale.

I agree I think she does see him flirting with her and it just disgusts her further. I think what other people have read as 'flirting back' is more like incredulity that he's giving her eyes in front of Daphne. I see no version of events where they hooked up. But it is telling that in Noto Harper says that Ethan won't cheat on her and is right and even when faced with evidence he did she is skeptical and does seek out his version and I think does believe him although she's angry about the general events that DID happen. In contrast Ethan is faced with this minor moment of her absence and goes full paranoid psycho even though it would be ENTIRELY out of her character to get with Cameron on multiple levels. It just confirms what Harper is already mad about, that Ethan is all about Cameron. He is viewing the entire trip through Cameron's viewpoint not Harper. She is an incidental character in his vacation story. Something she has picked up on but he has not.

The preview for next week makes it seem like something definitely happened.

It's so infuriating that Ethan denies Harper physical affection of any kind yet gets insanely jealous of a hint of Cameron flirting. Harper is the pawn and it's about time she made a move.

Their relationship is dead, do not resuscitate. In the end, the contrast with Daphne and Cameron's highly problematic but also affectionate and loving relationship is instructive and will help her make the necessary break. If he doesn't end up dead first.

She won’t, remember last season when that wife just decided to sacrifice all her happiness and fulfillment and stay with the jerk? Yep.

I don't think that relationship is comparable to Harper and Ethan, if for no other reasons than

1) Harper is gainfully employed and can walk away and maintain a good life
2) Ethan is complicated and has darkness but he is not the petulant man child that Shane is/was
3) Harper is both more comfortable in and simultaneously a lot less attached to opulent wealth than Rachel was

H/E are a lot more adult than S/R for whatever that is worth.

I think a lot of this comes from the fact that Harper was already married to Ethan when the wealth arrived. She wasn't in it for the money, and if anything she sees it causing problems for them.

So, I don't think Harper decides to suck it up for the comfortable lifestyle. I think they either reconcile (maybe as they try to hide Cameron's body after Ethan kills him semi-accidentally) or Harper leaves him.

I am kind of finding myself rooting for Ethan and Harper to make it now

I think Ethan accidentally drowns next week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very interesting interview with Aubrey Plaza on the Still Watching podcast today.

She says that Harper is not attracted to Cameron at all, he represents pretty much everything she hates, and the more she learns about him the more she dislikes him.

She says that a lot of Harper’s anger at Ethan about the night with Cameron is about how he is behaving so differently with Cameron than he does around her. Like with her he is withdrawn, unadventurous. He won’t even break his routines to have sex with her, he seems so disinterested in her. But with Cameron he’s doing molly and staying up all night? Contrast this with Harper’s night in Noto where, despite taking an edible she remains 100% the same person and is focused on getting home and communicating with Ethan.

Also says she thinks of the show like a 7 hour movie because of how she read the scripts (all at once) and that she is “scared” of the finale.

I agree I think she does see him flirting with her and it just disgusts her further. I think what other people have read as 'flirting back' is more like incredulity that he's giving her eyes in front of Daphne. I see no version of events where they hooked up. But it is telling that in Noto Harper says that Ethan won't cheat on her and is right and even when faced with evidence he did she is skeptical and does seek out his version and I think does believe him although she's angry about the general events that DID happen. In contrast Ethan is faced with this minor moment of her absence and goes full paranoid psycho even though it would be ENTIRELY out of her character to get with Cameron on multiple levels. It just confirms what Harper is already mad about, that Ethan is all about Cameron. He is viewing the entire trip through Cameron's viewpoint not Harper. She is an incidental character in his vacation story. Something she has picked up on but he has not.

The preview for next week makes it seem like something definitely happened.

It's so infuriating that Ethan denies Harper physical affection of any kind yet gets insanely jealous of a hint of Cameron flirting. Harper is the pawn and it's about time she made a move.

Their relationship is dead, do not resuscitate. In the end, the contrast with Daphne and Cameron's highly problematic but also affectionate and loving relationship is instructive and will help her make the necessary break. If he doesn't end up dead first.

She won’t, remember last season when that wife just decided to sacrifice all her happiness and fulfillment and stay with the jerk? Yep.

I don't think that relationship is comparable to Harper and Ethan, if for no other reasons than

1) Harper is gainfully employed and can walk away and maintain a good life
2) Ethan is complicated and has darkness but he is not the petulant man child that Shane is/was
3) Harper is both more comfortable in and simultaneously a lot less attached to opulent wealth than Rachel was

H/E are a lot more adult than S/R for whatever that is worth.

I think a lot of this comes from the fact that Harper was already married to Ethan when the wealth arrived. She wasn't in it for the money, and if anything she sees it causing problems for them.

So, I don't think Harper decides to suck it up for the comfortable lifestyle. I think they either reconcile (maybe as they try to hide Cameron's body after Ethan kills him semi-accidentally) or Harper leaves him.

I am kind of finding myself rooting for Ethan and Harper to make it now

I think Ethan accidentally drowns next week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very interesting interview with Aubrey Plaza on the Still Watching podcast today.

She says that Harper is not attracted to Cameron at all, he represents pretty much everything she hates, and the more she learns about him the more she dislikes him.

She says that a lot of Harper’s anger at Ethan about the night with Cameron is about how he is behaving so differently with Cameron than he does around her. Like with her he is withdrawn, unadventurous. He won’t even break his routines to have sex with her, he seems so disinterested in her. But with Cameron he’s doing molly and staying up all night? Contrast this with Harper’s night in Noto where, despite taking an edible she remains 100% the same person and is focused on getting home and communicating with Ethan.

Also says she thinks of the show like a 7 hour movie because of how she read the scripts (all at once) and that she is “scared” of the finale.

I agree I think she does see him flirting with her and it just disgusts her further. I think what other people have read as 'flirting back' is more like incredulity that he's giving her eyes in front of Daphne. I see no version of events where they hooked up. But it is telling that in Noto Harper says that Ethan won't cheat on her and is right and even when faced with evidence he did she is skeptical and does seek out his version and I think does believe him although she's angry about the general events that DID happen. In contrast Ethan is faced with this minor moment of her absence and goes full paranoid psycho even though it would be ENTIRELY out of her character to get with Cameron on multiple levels. It just confirms what Harper is already mad about, that Ethan is all about Cameron. He is viewing the entire trip through Cameron's viewpoint not Harper. She is an incidental character in his vacation story. Something she has picked up on but he has not.

The preview for next week makes it seem like something definitely happened.

It's so infuriating that Ethan denies Harper physical affection of any kind yet gets insanely jealous of a hint of Cameron flirting. Harper is the pawn and it's about time she made a move.

Their relationship is dead, do not resuscitate. In the end, the contrast with Daphne and Cameron's highly problematic but also affectionate and loving relationship is instructive and will help her make the necessary break. If he doesn't end up dead first.

She won’t, remember last season when that wife just decided to sacrifice all her happiness and fulfillment and stay with the jerk? Yep.

I don't think that relationship is comparable to Harper and Ethan, if for no other reasons than

1) Harper is gainfully employed and can walk away and maintain a good life
2) Ethan is complicated and has darkness but he is not the petulant man child that Shane is/was
3) Harper is both more comfortable in and simultaneously a lot less attached to opulent wealth than Rachel was

H/E are a lot more adult than S/R for whatever that is worth.

I think a lot of this comes from the fact that Harper was already married to Ethan when the wealth arrived. She wasn't in it for the money, and if anything she sees it causing problems for them.

So, I don't think Harper decides to suck it up for the comfortable lifestyle. I think they either reconcile (maybe as they try to hide Cameron's body after Ethan kills him semi-accidentally) or Harper leaves him.

I am kind of finding myself rooting for Ethan and Harper to make it now

I think Ethan accidentally drowns next week.

Ugh I was so nervous when he went running solo/swimming. That'd kind of be a less satisfying death though? We're expecting a big fight between Harper/Cameron and it's a pure accident on his own?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd love to get paid to go to Italy and sit on the balcony in my room and charge food. Please take me there.

No you wouldn't. You would chafe because you'd want to be out doing stuff.

Please try me and take me there now I am begging you!

You would be the help and your room would have no balcony.

But I can have sex with a vacation fling multiple times while on the clock right? Including on an amazing yacht? And never even open a computer or make a single call or appointment?

I'm still in.

It sounds like you could really use a vacation! I can usually tell when I really need a break, when I stare at my cats sleeping and wish I could trade places with them.

Portia just isn't in a good mental space. We don't know if she is capable of being in a good mental space, but for a variety of reasons right now she isn't in one. So while someone else might be able to take this sort of trip - with all its luxuries and strangenesses - in stride, and even enjoy it, that's not where she is. It could certainly be worse - and she knows that, which is why she's not just quitting, even while her Tanya was making her pretend that she wasn't there and getting angry every time she caught her leaving the room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love how Mike White randomly drops red pills in this season and last season. The British nephew giving some well needed perspective and context to rebuke Portia’s woke prattling about the world falling apart is a prime example.

Yes telling a woke millennial that the quality and safety of life - for all- is at all-time human history highs in 2022 was awesome perspective.

wait i didn't catch this part - what happened / what did he say?

I think they’re outside and he’s drunk and suddenly says this. He’s talking about Roman ages, nailing people to crosses to fry in the sun, Barbarians, burning witches— how far humans have come. And her she is complaining that the world is ending because of people.

Yes, the old "things were worse in the past, so therefore you can't complain about or try to change anything about the present!" A close cousin of "you think there's sexism in the West? Why don't you go live in Saudi Arabia then! Women have it great!"

Exactly this.

It is very en vogue to think the world is going to hell when in reality this is truly the best time to have ever been born. I’m not sure why people think acknowledging this means they think there’s no problems worth solving. But acting like this is a horrible time to be alive is a lot like Portia, sitting in a picture of Italian idyllic bliss eating ice cream focusing on how everything sucks. You don’t betray the problems by being grateful for what you have.

When people say everything is falling apart (Portia's actual words), I assume they're talking about the environment/climate change. We're currently experiencing the largest mass extinction since the dinosaurs, and the fact that Essex & Portia are enjoying Peronis in a coastal setting doesn't negate that. There's a Maslow's hierarchy element to the conversation: Essex is thrilled with his life because he sees it in contrast to what he escaped. From basic safety and sustenance to now hanging out with a pretty girl in Italy, what could be better? Portia has not had Essex's personal struggles but that's what frees her up to take a broader view: she's miserable because she has no focus, no goals, nothing to look forward to. She's always been safe and fed, so she's focused on the next-level concerns.

This.