Bad Art Friend

[Anonymous]

I increasingly think Helen Rosner winds up looking like one of the dumbest actors in this. So many people, including a lot of writers, first saw BAF linked in the Rosner tweet where she called Dawn a monster. It’s where I first saw the story— she must have read it the second it came out (or even before?). I think that, combined with Kolker’s choice to start the article with a portrait of Dawn that really stuck— need, “extra”, unsuccessful, off. I think even though there is lots of info about Larson in the piece that is unflattering, the choice to start it off with a critical picture of Dawn really hurt her.

And then Rosner, who is generally considered fairly reasonable on Twitter (and is a food writer, so seems sort of outside the gray here) just basically told all her followers “there’s only one way to view this or you are a bad person.” I think Rosner’s take was more damaging than Roxane Gay’s, because Gay often judges people quickly and harshly on Twitter and a lot of us have learned to be cautious with those takes. But Rosner was definitive and I think it colored a lot of people’s initial reaction.

It’s really annoying to me that she can’t just say at this point “you know what, this was a complicated story and I was probably a bit harsh in my assessment. I forgot for a second these are real people.” Because I really do think that’s what happened.

[Anonymous]

The top-rated reader comments on the second NYT piece are critical of Kolker. And there’s also someone giving themselves the handle “Advocate for Justice” trying to insert themselves into those comments and is getting their ass handed to them. Hm.

[Anonymous]

Roster comes across like the self-satisfied little dumbass she’s been on social - just IMO - for some time. No disrespect to the poster here who knows her, she is not impressive at all. I also found the story linked in another writer’s Twitter feed, citing Rosner’s link. I find her more distasteful and whiny than almost anyone in this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The top-rated reader comments on the second NYT piece are critical of Kolker. And there’s also someone giving themselves the handle “Advocate for Justice” trying to insert themselves into those comments and is getting their ass handed to them. Hm.

Is "Advocate for Justice" from Boston?

[Anonymous]

^ nope, NYC actually, but you can set any location in the comments under your user name.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I increasingly think Helen Rosner winds up looking like one of the dumbest actors in this. So many people, including a lot of writers, first saw BAF linked in the Rosner tweet where she called Dawn a monster. It’s where I first saw the story— she must have read it the second it came out (or even before?). I think that, combined with Kolker’s choice to start the article with a portrait of Dawn that really stuck— need, “extra”, unsuccessful, off. I think even though there is lots of info about Larson in the piece that is unflattering, the choice to start it off with a critical picture of Dawn really hurt her.

And then Rosner, who is generally considered fairly reasonable on Twitter (and is a food writer, so seems sort of outside the gray here) just basically told all her followers “there’s only one way to view this or you are a bad person.” I think Rosner’s take was more damaging than Roxane Gay’s, because Gay often judges people quickly and harshly on Twitter and a lot of us have learned to be cautious with those takes. But Rosner was definitive and I think it colored a lot of people’s initial reaction.

It’s really annoying to me that she can’t just say at this point “you know what, this was a complicated story and I was probably a bit harsh in my assessment. I forgot for a second these are real people.” Because I really do think that’s what happened.

Yes, she looks very bad here. It reflects badly on her employer too.

[Anonymous]

Anyone read this take?

https://rottenindenmark.org/2021/10/10/identifying-the-bad-art-friend-is-easy/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone read this take?

https://rottenindenmark.org/2021/10/10/identifying-the-bad-art-friend-is-easy/

This is a week and a half old and has already been discussed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The amazing kidneygate account found a series of Tweets by Helen Rosner where she accused an app that stripped ads from recipe websites as "stealing" from creators. As background, recipes are generally not considered to be copyrightable. So, she's basically objecting to the app on moral grounds, not on any legal grounds.

But she defends Larson? In Rosner's upside-down world, it is evil to make an app that strips annoying ads from a webpage with un-copyrightable recipes but stealing someone's letter wholesale and profiting from it is totally fine? Is this the position of the New Yorker too?

Yeah the fact this person is a New Yorker editor is incredibly depressing

— PP who is also depressed about the NYT

— I do have other things in my life I don’t find depressing just in case this is starting to seem like cause for alarm for me lol

I think losing faith in the NYT in the times that we are living in is pretty damn significant. Who can we trust and if they aren’t getting these human Interest stories right then what about the hard news that shapes our world?

[Anonymous]

It all certainly gives credence to those who believe the NYT is not reliable when it comes to reporting on issues around class, race, or sex/gender.

[Anonymous]

i never looked at the nyt the same way again after their reporting in 2016 pointed toward hillary winning.

and yes, the fatal flaw there was also class and the NYT reporters' own privilege bubble.

i live in a flyover state in the south. it was so clear here, even in the spring of 2016, that trump was going to win. and anyone who spent a lot of time really looking around -- not at the rednecks, but at the regular middle class folk who work at banks and middling fortune 500 companies -- would have seen it too. but the NYT simply refused to see it or believe it, or couldn't see it; they literally weren't capable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The amazing kidneygate account found a series of Tweets by Helen Rosner where she accused an app that stripped ads from recipe websites as "stealing" from creators. As background, recipes are generally not considered to be copyrightable. So, she's basically objecting to the app on moral grounds, not on any legal grounds.

But she defends Larson? In Rosner's upside-down world, it is evil to make an app that strips annoying ads from a webpage with un-copyrightable recipes but stealing someone's letter wholesale and profiting from it is totally fine? Is this the position of the New Yorker too?

Yeah the fact this person is a New Yorker editor is incredibly depressing

— PP who is also depressed about the NYT

— I do have other things in my life I don’t find depressing just in case this is starting to seem like cause for alarm for me lol

I think losing faith in the NYT in the times that we are living in is pretty damn significant. Who can we trust and if they aren’t getting these human Interest stories right then what about the hard news that shapes our world?

This story has soured me on NYT and the New Yorker

[Anonymous]

Same here PP, this story has soured me on the NYT and New Yorker as well. I'm also amazed by how foolishly their staffers behave on social media. The behavior has harmed their employers' reputations.

[Anonymous]

WOW. Summer Brennan has written a complete timeline of what happened based on the court filings. I am still reading it, but it is amazingly detailed. So far I am still strongly on Dorland's side

https://summerbrennan.substack.com/p/bad-discourse-friend-the-unraveling

And the second part:

https://summerbrennan.substack.com/p/bad-discourse-friend-the-unraveling-cae

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The kidneygate Twitter account linked to this article, which is really good:

https://www.bryndonovan.com/2021/10/20/sonya-larson-celeste-ng_and-the-disregard-for-the-ill-and-the-dying/

I’m so glad I read that. Thank you.