Official Brett Kavanaugh Thread, Part 3

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Y'ALL

This is a pure genius mashup: https://twitter.com/heyitschili/status/1045718359713681408


For some reason it really bugs me that the person who created it tweeted it and got 3k retweets but this other random comedian shares it (doesn't retweet, but downloads it and uploads it again) gets 84k retweets
Anonymous
Weren't Ford's lawyers (the ones recommended by Feinstein) obligated to tell her that the Republicans were willing to fly to California and take her testimony quietly? Exactly whom was Katz working for? Her client....or the Democrats?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:More dirt is coming. It's over. This is why he and repubs were so terrified of an investigation.


Don't call it too soon. It ain't over til it's over.

Ask DJT
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


Why do you assume that people will stop at preventing him from being on the Supreme Court?
There have already been calls to try and remove him from the court of appeals: https://now.org/media-center/press-release/brett-kavanaugh-should-be-removed-from-the-bench/

So no, the "worst that could happen" isn't just not getting to be a Supreme Court Justice.

And, if you think he's guilty, and if you think he knows he's guilty, then this is reasonable. Not just because of what he did - we might be able to excuse a teenager's brutish behavior from way-back-when - but because he lied about it, which indicates a lack of remorse as an adult that makes him unfit to judge others.

But if you think he's guilty, but doesn't know he's guilty because he was black out drunk or whatever your preferred scenario is, then this might not be reasonable. If we start going after all of us middle aged people for the stuff we got away with (remembered or not) in our youth, even if we perform our current functions well and seem like perfectly reasonable people, we're going to have quite a line at the guillotine.

And if you think he's not guilty, then it's not even remotely reasonable.


this, this, this.


If you raped someone in high school, you should be in jail. ( Some states have a SOL on sexual assault for crimes committed when the victim was an adult, some do not. )

This was not drinking or shoplifting, or getting in a fist fight. This wasn't stealing the rival school's mascot. Stop acting like sexual assault isn't a BFD. It is.


+1, what are you suggesting first pp? that sexual assault is "stuff middle aged people got away with in their youth?" Ford said they shut the door and turned the music up loud and that she called out hoping someone would hear her. The boys laughed.


Sexual assault is indeed exactly the kind of thing middle aged people got away with in their youth. But middle aged people also got away with physical assault. Shoplifting. Theft. Breaking and entering. Speeding. Illegal drug use. Drug dealing. Using prostitutes. Being prostitutes. Illegal consumption of alcohol. Name it, some or even many of us in our middle age got away with it. To what extent do we hold us all responsible now?

It doesn't bother me that he did bad things in the distant past. It bothers me that he lied to Congress about it, and even lied about non-crimes like the thing about Renate in his yearbook. Shows he is dishonest. "Lie in a small thing, lie on everything" I think the lawyers say.


So any lie disqualifies a nominee to the Supreme Court?


Trollie, honey, go sleepie, sweetie.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


Why do you assume that people will stop at preventing him from being on the Supreme Court?
There have already been calls to try and remove him from the court of appeals: https://now.org/media-center/press-release/brett-kavanaugh-should-be-removed-from-the-bench/

So no, the "worst that could happen" isn't just not getting to be a Supreme Court Justice.

And, if you think he's guilty, and if you think he knows he's guilty, then this is reasonable. Not just because of what he did - we might be able to excuse a teenager's brutish behavior from way-back-when - but because he lied about it, which indicates a lack of remorse as an adult that makes him unfit to judge others.

But if you think he's guilty, but doesn't know he's guilty because he was black out drunk or whatever your preferred scenario is, then this might not be reasonable. If we start going after all of us middle aged people for the stuff we got away with (remembered or not) in our youth, even if we perform our current functions well and seem like perfectly reasonable people, we're going to have quite a line at the guillotine.

And if you think he's not guilty, then it's not even remotely reasonable.


this, this, this.


If you raped someone in high school, you should be in jail. ( Some states have a SOL on sexual assault for crimes committed when the victim was an adult, some do not. )

This was not drinking or shoplifting, or getting in a fist fight. This wasn't stealing the rival school's mascot. Stop acting like sexual assault isn't a BFD. It is.


+1, what are you suggesting first pp? that sexual assault is "stuff middle aged people got away with in their youth?" Ford said they shut the door and turned the music up loud and that she called out hoping someone would hear her. The boys laughed.


Sexual assault is indeed exactly the kind of thing middle aged people got away with in their youth. But middle aged people also got away with physical assault. Shoplifting. Theft. Breaking and entering. Speeding. Illegal drug use. Drug dealing. Using prostitutes. Being prostitutes. Illegal consumption of alcohol. Name it, some or even many of us in our middle age got away with it. To what extent do we hold us all responsible now?

It doesn't bother me that he did bad things in the distant past. It bothers me that he lied to Congress about it, and even lied about non-crimes like the thing about Renate in his yearbook. Shows he is dishonest. "Lie in a small thing, lie on everything" I think the lawyers say.


So any lie disqualifies a nominee to the Supreme Court?


A lie under oath, before SJC, on national television? Hell yeah! Give me a rational reason where that is acceptable for SCOTUS? This position requires extreme levels of public trust to be legitimate.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


Why do you assume that people will stop at preventing him from being on the Supreme Court?
There have already been calls to try and remove him from the court of appeals: https://now.org/media-center/press-release/brett-kavanaugh-should-be-removed-from-the-bench/

So no, the "worst that could happen" isn't just not getting to be a Supreme Court Justice.

And, if you think he's guilty, and if you think he knows he's guilty, then this is reasonable. Not just because of what he did - we might be able to excuse a teenager's brutish behavior from way-back-when - but because he lied about it, which indicates a lack of remorse as an adult that makes him unfit to judge others.

But if you think he's guilty, but doesn't know he's guilty because he was black out drunk or whatever your preferred scenario is, then this might not be reasonable. If we start going after all of us middle aged people for the stuff we got away with (remembered or not) in our youth, even if we perform our current functions well and seem like perfectly reasonable people, we're going to have quite a line at the guillotine.

And if you think he's not guilty, then it's not even remotely reasonable.


this, this, this.


If you raped someone in high school, you should be in jail. ( Some states have a SOL on sexual assault for crimes committed when the victim was an adult, some do not. )

This was not drinking or shoplifting, or getting in a fist fight. This wasn't stealing the rival school's mascot. Stop acting like sexual assault isn't a BFD. It is.


There are all sorts of sexual assaults.
Ford does not say he raped her.

In any case, attempted rape or rape, if he had been charged at the time, even if a judge had thrown the book at him which we all know never would have happened, he'd be out by now.


IF he had been charged. He hasn't been charged. If he is charged and found guilty, he should serve whatever sentence given. The fact that he would be out now is irrelevant.


I heard on the radio that while there is no SOL now, there was then. Can he be charged?


No. You can't abolish the statute of limitations and then charge someone for a crime that took place during the timeframe when statute existed. This violates the Ex Post Facto clause in the Constitution (https://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec9.html). Every now and then, politicians will make a show of passing laws to get around this, knowing full well that they won't hold up in court because they don't want to appear to be "soft on crime."

Even if this somehow wasn't a factor, no prosecutor is going to charge someone with an attempted drunken sexual battery that was alleged to have taken place while he was a minor, 36 years ago. The only cases that get opened from that far back are murder. The only way Kavanaugh is going to prison is if he gets caught lying to the FBI, which is a crime. That's how Hastert got nailed.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:The connection to Ed Whelen and fingering "Squi" as it relates to the July 1, 1982 gathering is, IMO key to unlocking this.

The question is, will the Prep boys close ranks?


Yes, I think they will because they do not want to implicate themselves in crimes.

However, lying to the FBI is a crime, so many of them will refuse to speak to the FBI.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Weren't Ford's lawyers (the ones recommended by Feinstein) obligated to tell her that the Republicans were willing to fly to California and take her testimony quietly? Exactly whom was Katz working for? Her client....or the Democrats?


Why do you think they weren't working for Ford's interests?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


Why do you assume that people will stop at preventing him from being on the Supreme Court?
There have already been calls to try and remove him from the court of appeals: https://now.org/media-center/press-release/brett-kavanaugh-should-be-removed-from-the-bench/

So no, the "worst that could happen" isn't just not getting to be a Supreme Court Justice.

And, if you think he's guilty, and if you think he knows he's guilty, then this is reasonable. Not just because of what he did - we might be able to excuse a teenager's brutish behavior from way-back-when - but because he lied about it, which indicates a lack of remorse as an adult that makes him unfit to judge others.

But if you think he's guilty, but doesn't know he's guilty because he was black out drunk or whatever your preferred scenario is, then this might not be reasonable. If we start going after all of us middle aged people for the stuff we got away with (remembered or not) in our youth, even if we perform our current functions well and seem like perfectly reasonable people, we're going to have quite a line at the guillotine.

And if you think he's not guilty, then it's not even remotely reasonable.


this, this, this.


If you raped someone in high school, you should be in jail. ( Some states have a SOL on sexual assault for crimes committed when the victim was an adult, some do not. )

This was not drinking or shoplifting, or getting in a fist fight. This wasn't stealing the rival school's mascot. Stop acting like sexual assault isn't a BFD. It is.


There are all sorts of sexual assaults.
Ford does not say he raped her.

In any case, attempted rape or rape, if he had been charged at the time, even if a judge had thrown the book at him which we all know never would have happened, he'd be out by now.


But he wouldn't be a judge, or in a position to be nominated to the Supreme Court.


While I would like that to be the case, I am not confident. If he had been charged and convicted as a minor, do you think it would have prevented him from being accepted to the bar?


It would have adversely affected his ability to be accepted to college, which in turn would adversely impact his acceptance to the bar.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Weren't Ford's lawyers (the ones recommended by Feinstein) obligated to tell her that the Republicans were willing to fly to California and take her testimony quietly? Exactly whom was Katz working for? Her client....or the Democrats?


This is really, really pathetic.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


Why do you assume that people will stop at preventing him from being on the Supreme Court?
There have already been calls to try and remove him from the court of appeals: https://now.org/media-center/press-release/brett-kavanaugh-should-be-removed-from-the-bench/

So no, the "worst that could happen" isn't just not getting to be a Supreme Court Justice.

And, if you think he's guilty, and if you think he knows he's guilty, then this is reasonable. Not just because of what he did - we might be able to excuse a teenager's brutish behavior from way-back-when - but because he lied about it, which indicates a lack of remorse as an adult that makes him unfit to judge others.

But if you think he's guilty, but doesn't know he's guilty because he was black out drunk or whatever your preferred scenario is, then this might not be reasonable. If we start going after all of us middle aged people for the stuff we got away with (remembered or not) in our youth, even if we perform our current functions well and seem like perfectly reasonable people, we're going to have quite a line at the guillotine.

And if you think he's not guilty, then it's not even remotely reasonable.


this, this, this.


If you raped someone in high school, you should be in jail. ( Some states have a SOL on sexual assault for crimes committed when the victim was an adult, some do not. )

This was not drinking or shoplifting, or getting in a fist fight. This wasn't stealing the rival school's mascot. Stop acting like sexual assault isn't a BFD. It is.


+1, what are you suggesting first pp? that sexual assault is "stuff middle aged people got away with in their youth?" Ford said they shut the door and turned the music up loud and that she called out hoping someone would hear her. The boys laughed.


Sexual assault is indeed exactly the kind of thing middle aged people got away with in their youth. But middle aged people also got away with physical assault. Shoplifting. Theft. Breaking and entering. Speeding. Illegal drug use. Drug dealing. Using prostitutes. Being prostitutes. Illegal consumption of alcohol. Name it, some or even many of us in our middle age got away with it. To what extent do we hold us all responsible now?


There are statues of limitations, but sometimes you will not be able to get certain employment, and we find that reasonable in our society. In the past, we held SC nominees to the highest standards of all. I don't think that is a bad thing.


I was a chronic shop lifter when I was a kid. If it wasn't nailed down, I was taking it. I never got caught. I don't steal at all any more. Haven't since I turned 17 and decided I was being an idiot and needed to stop. I am sure there are jobs where if someone actively shop lifts, you wouldn't want them to have that job. Would someone like me, who used to shop lift, but stopped, and yet also never paid for my crimes, also be inappropriate to have in those jobs? What if I'd held those jobs prior to the discovery of my past, and I'd been fine in them? I have a debt that's never been paid. But it's far in my past and I don't appear to be continuing that behavior now. Is that sufficient? Do I need to pay that debt? Because I have this history, am I now too much of a risk to hold those jobs?

Maybe shoplifting's minor and we don't care, right? Lots of us shoplifted when we were young and stupid (and lots of people didn't - so shouldn't they be rewarded for their honesty?). What about assault? Someone who got in fist fights all the time throughout their youth, and managed to never get charged because they were lucky enough never to kill someone, and people were willing to let boys be boys. Or hate crimes. I could not count the number of times I heard boys call other boys f-gg-t. Is it possible that you could accept someone in a sensitive position dealing with gay people, if you discovered in his youth he was a homophobic jerk?

Maybe the answer is we only care this much about Supreme Court nominees. But I'm betting we also care about Presidents. And maybe all judges. And I'd bet we could make a pretty long list where it turns out we kind of do care.


Yes, as a society's values evolve and change, it is natural to want leaders whose lives reflect those values with integrity. The reason this is such an important case is that we're not talking about a positive, additional nice-to-have value here, like it would be nice if he weren't rude to women, it would be nice if he didn't break up with them by text, it would be nice if he didn't make respectful jokes. It is a bare minimum for the leaders and teachers in our society -- those who stand for what we hold to be right and good -- not to assault people.

I think the double standard is that it's always been acceptable for men to be aggressive towards women and use them as objects. Everyone laughs and normalizes it. That's why the laughter is the key thing that stuck in her mind. They were having fun. This wasn't two people assaulting someone knowing that it was a wrong thing they were doing. They were doing something wrong as if there were nothing wrong about it. And that is a real problem.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


Why do you assume that people will stop at preventing him from being on the Supreme Court?
There have already been calls to try and remove him from the court of appeals: https://now.org/media-center/press-release/brett-kavanaugh-should-be-removed-from-the-bench/

So no, the "worst that could happen" isn't just not getting to be a Supreme Court Justice.

And, if you think he's guilty, and if you think he knows he's guilty, then this is reasonable. Not just because of what he did - we might be able to excuse a teenager's brutish behavior from way-back-when - but because he lied about it, which indicates a lack of remorse as an adult that makes him unfit to judge others.

But if you think he's guilty, but doesn't know he's guilty because he was black out drunk or whatever your preferred scenario is, then this might not be reasonable. If we start going after all of us middle aged people for the stuff we got away with (remembered or not) in our youth, even if we perform our current functions well and seem like perfectly reasonable people, we're going to have quite a line at the guillotine.

And if you think he's not guilty, then it's not even remotely reasonable.


this, this, this.


If you raped someone in high school, you should be in jail. ( Some states have a SOL on sexual assault for crimes committed when the victim was an adult, some do not. )

This was not drinking or shoplifting, or getting in a fist fight. This wasn't stealing the rival school's mascot. Stop acting like sexual assault isn't a BFD. It is.


+1, what are you suggesting first pp? that sexual assault is "stuff middle aged people got away with in their youth?" Ford said they shut the door and turned the music up loud and that she called out hoping someone would hear her. The boys laughed.


Sexual assault is indeed exactly the kind of thing middle aged people got away with in their youth. But middle aged people also got away with physical assault. Shoplifting. Theft. Breaking and entering. Speeding. Illegal drug use. Drug dealing. Using prostitutes. Being prostitutes. Illegal consumption of alcohol. Name it, some or even many of us in our middle age got away with it. To what extent do we hold us all responsible now?

It doesn't bother me that he did bad things in the distant past. It bothers me that he lied to Congress about it, and even lied about non-crimes like the thing about Renate in his yearbook. Shows he is dishonest. "Lie in a small thing, lie on everything" I think the lawyers say.


So any lie disqualifies a nominee to the Supreme Court?


I think that this, right here, is the actual debate. At the time that Brett Kavanaugh was committing these crimes, they were somewhat tolerated or at least put lower on the list of crimes than things like grand theft or whatever. Have we come far enough as a society that they are actually disqualifying today? I don’t know. I hope so, but others may disagree.

Imagine the time when the country was slowly changing its collective mind on slavery. Even after slavery was broadly accepted as not ok, you didn’t disqualify previous slave owners from being respected members of society (and enshrined their rights in things like Jim Crow). Our inability to look those people in the eye and say “not ok” and “you were on the wrong side of history” is part of why the race issue roils under the surface of all of American life even today. Because nobody really thought it was “that bad” and nobody had to pay a price. We are watching what the price is for men who assault women even during a climate that tolerated this stuff. Because if we are honest, everyone knows something went down short of rape and that he was involved. Where we are divided is what price he should pay for that sin.
Anonymous
Ford reached out proactively BEFORE Kavanaugh was the nominee to let them know of her existence - to essentially warn not to let Kavanaugh be the pick.

McConnell likely knew this (among other things) and warned Trump. But Trump wanted the one conservative Judge who also favored consolidated presidential power.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Weren't Ford's lawyers (the ones recommended by Feinstein) obligated to tell her that the Republicans were willing to fly to California and take her testimony quietly? Exactly whom was Katz working for? Her client....or the Democrats?


Why do you think they weren't working for Ford's interests?

Because she wanted as little publicity as possible and likely would have taken the Rs up on their offer to come to CA and take her testimony quietly. She seemed surprised to learn of that offer, and actually said thank you.

The lawyers definitely should have told her of her option. They clearly had a conflict of interest.....to do what's best for their client, or what's best for the Democrats who recommended their legal services. They do not necessarily align.
Anonymous
No one is arguing that Brett is not a smart, hardworking man. He is both. But he can be both and be guilty of sexual assault. The fact that he's been lying under oath should disqualify him from the SCOTUS, no matter what he did 36 years ago.

And his completely partisan temper tantrum yesterday at the SJC hearing should ban him forevermore from being a judge on any court.
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