Metro United

[Anonymous]

I'm going to weigh in a little bit generically because for me it's a conceptual issue, and not about wins, losses or any particular players PER SE. In rec, the goal is to have fun and for everyone to do their best. That's the measure of success.

When a player decides to participate in travel, there is an understanding that not all players are equal and not everyone can and should make the team. This augments with each level of team, so an academy team is really at the top of the pyramid.

For these players, they are expected to be committed and to be held responsible for how they play, including to themselves. College coaches also scout for that, for players who take ownership. They are also supposed to be true students of the game. They should be watching it on tv, watching other teams play, evaluating what they see, and learning from that. The very best players aren't just the best because of technical skill and speed. They also read the game better.

[Anonymous]

Fair enough. I thought you were suggesting to put winning at the top. We agree that all adds to winning.

Here's what I view as the opposite of what I said:

Hey kiddo, you did awesome! Don't worry about the loss because you played really good today, and were clearly the best player on the pitch by far! If your team could just replace players x, y, and z for more players as good as you then you could win more games.

And sometimes the above is also true.

It is absolutely true on every team that ever suffers a loss. The losing team always has a player who played the best. And they would have been more likely to win if they traded out their worst players for better ones. But focusing on how much better you could be if you replaced your weakest player is not helpful in developing a winning culture.

Regardless of whether it's a winning team of a losing team, every single team has a "best" player and a "worst" player. The best players have just as much to work on as the worst players. So, dismissing a loss just because you were the best player on your team is a great way to stagnate.

If your kid is the most skilled player then help them recognize that they have a great opportunity to work on their "intangibles". Grit, team leadership, developing an ability to make those around them better. None of those important life skills are likely to be developed if a player becomes satisfied with losing by rationalizing that they are playing well individually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Fair enough. I thought you were suggesting to put winning at the top. We agree that all adds to winning.

Here's what I view as the opposite of what I said:

Hey kiddo, you did awesome! Don't worry about the loss because you played really good today, and were clearly the best player on the pitch by far! If your team could just replace players x, y, and z for more players as good as you then you could win more games.

And sometimes the above is also true.

It is absolutely true on every team that ever suffers a loss. The losing team always has a player who played the best. And they would have been more likely to win if they traded out their worst players for better ones. But focusing on how much better you could be if you replaced your weakest player is not helpful in developing a winning culture.

Regardless of whether it's a winning team of a losing team, every single team has a "best" player and a "worst" player. The best players have just as much to work on as the worst players. So, dismissing a loss just because you were the best player on your team is a great way to stagnate.

If your kid is the most skilled player then help them recognize that they have a great opportunity to work on their "intangibles". Grit, team leadership, developing an ability to make those around them better. None of those important life skills are likely to be developed if a player becomes satisfied with losing by rationalizing that they are playing well individually.

Agree that there’s room for improvement for any player, on any team, winning or losing. Even Messi and Ronaldo have room for improvement in their game. But that doesn’t mean that there can’t or shouldn’t be recognition of the good parts of a player’s play in a losing effort, even on a team that doesn’t win a single game. Sure, that player and others need to improve their games and work with one another better to move from a losing team to a winning team. That starts by reinforcing the good parts of each player’s game to make them a habit, while gently leading them to improvements in other areas, especially among girls. Girls typically don’t react well to focus on the negative side of their game. As a PP here stated earlier, it will take time for some of these teams to move from their current state to winning, because of the mess Spirit ownership left in terms of reputation for this group of coaches. That doesn’t mean the environment, coaching, program, or even many individual players are bad. It just means there are areas for improvement and with focus and determination, they can transform into teams that play better individually, play better as a team, and make winning more common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Agree that there’s room for improvement for any player, on any team, winning or losing. Even Messi and Ronaldo have room for improvement in their game. But that doesn’t mean that there can’t or shouldn’t be recognition of the good parts of a player’s play in a losing effort, even on a team that doesn’t win a single game. Sure, that player and others need to improve their games and work with one another better to move from a losing team to a winning team. That starts by reinforcing the good parts of each player’s game to make them a habit, while gently leading them to improvements in other areas, especially among girls. Girls typically don’t react well to focus on the negative side of their game. As a PP here stated earlier, it will take time for some of these teams to move from their current state to winning, because of the mess Spirit ownership left in terms of reputation for this group of coaches. That doesn’t mean the environment, coaching, program, or even many individual players are bad. It just means there are areas for improvement and with focus and determination, they can transform into teams that play better individually, play better as a team, and make winning more common.

Agreed.

I'm pretty sure I've said everything I can think of for now on the topic of "how important is winning" but I'm concerned about the imminent return to the usual FCV-related pissing match.

I for one would love to see a continuation of the civil approach to the debate that many have demonstrated today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Agree that there’s room for improvement for any player, on any team, winning or losing. Even Messi and Ronaldo have room for improvement in their game. But that doesn’t mean that there can’t or shouldn’t be recognition of the good parts of a player’s play in a losing effort, even on a team that doesn’t win a single game. Sure, that player and others need to improve their games and work with one another better to move from a losing team to a winning team. That starts by reinforcing the good parts of each player’s game to make them a habit, while gently leading them to improvements in other areas, especially among girls. Girls typically don’t react well to focus on the negative side of their game. As a PP here stated earlier, it will take time for some of these teams to move from their current state to winning, because of the mess Spirit ownership left in terms of reputation for this group of coaches. That doesn’t mean the environment, coaching, program, or even many individual players are bad. It just means there are areas for improvement and with focus and determination, they can transform into teams that play better individually, play better as a team, and make winning more common.

Agreed.

I'm pretty sure I've said everything I can think of for now on the topic of "how important is winning" but I'm concerned about the imminent return to the usual FCV-related pissing match.

I for one would love to see a continuation of the civil approach to the debate that many have demonstrated today.

Amen. I like us having a healthy, balanced discussion about our club. I don't report posts because I'm not a hall monitor here, so I don't know why some things get deleted, BUT I don't want us bringing up FCV here because it invites them to come ruin the thread with reactive attacks.

Let's celebrate what's going well, admit what needs to be fixed and work together to supportively life our special someones up.

[Anonymous]

And for my final thought, balanced constructive criticism that leads off with a positive is a good way to support personal responsibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Agree that there’s room for improvement for any player, on any team, winning or losing. Even Messi and Ronaldo have room for improvement in their game. But that doesn’t mean that there can’t or shouldn’t be recognition of the good parts of a player’s play in a losing effort, even on a team that doesn’t win a single game. Sure, that player and others need to improve their games and work with one another better to move from a losing team to a winning team. That starts by reinforcing the good parts of each player’s game to make them a habit, while gently leading them to improvements in other areas, especially among girls. Girls typically don’t react well to focus on the negative side of their game. As a PP here stated earlier, it will take time for some of these teams to move from their current state to winning, because of the mess Spirit ownership left in terms of reputation for this group of coaches. That doesn’t mean the environment, coaching, program, or even many individual players are bad. It just means there are areas for improvement and with focus and determination, they can transform into teams that play better individually, play better as a team, and make winning more common.

Agreed.

I'm pretty sure I've said everything I can think of for now on the topic of "how important is winning" but I'm concerned about the imminent return to the usual FCV-related pissing match.

I for one would love to see a continuation of the civil approach to the debate that many have demonstrated today.

Amen. I like us having a healthy, balanced discussion about our club. I don't report posts because I'm not a hall monitor here, so I don't know why some things get deleted, BUT I don't want us bringing up FCV here because it invites them to come ruin the thread with reactive attacks.

Let's celebrate what's going well, admit what needs to be fixed and work together to supportively life our special someones up.

I know it’s the FCV coaching staff

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you evaluate "doing a great job"?

Generally speaking, when your players want to stay and new players from the outside are fighting to make the team.

Specifically, lots of factors and my factors likely have differences from yours and those of other parents.

But if your team/club is facing mass exodus and no one is clamoring to join, maybe that bag of clues from Amazon would help.

As indicated, different people have different factors. Most in my experience value winning above all else. If you are the persistent troll here, as it seems based on the “mass exodus” comment, I suspect that includes you.

IMO, the win chasers need the bag of clues from Amazon.

Well we agree on something. I find the "win chasers", the GotSoccer ranking quoters, the scoreline reporters and the scrimmage analysts generally clueless. I also, however, find those that become cheerleaders for their club just as foolish. Spinning and rationalizing in a never-ending fashion.

And regarding the mass exodus comment, mass exodus is never good unless you think all the people leaving are not smart enough to know what is good for them. Unfortunately, your comments come off a bit like someone that thinks they know everything and who's job it is to make sure you let everyone else know what is good for them.

Not buying into that. Sorry.

And that's OK; you come off as someone who only looks at results to determine the worth of an environment. If you look at the whole of this thread, there is no spinner singing praises of MU. People acknowledge the challenges along with the positives.

Creating a perception that all MU players aren't worthwhile just because of the W-L records and scorelines is way off the mark. This shows in the recruiting patterns. People on this board (and I'm sure in their interpersonal lives) seem to be doing what they can to scare others away from MU. The Spirit and their handling/mismanagement of their DA program surely didn't help. But all of that says nothing about the environment and coaching the current players are receiving, nor their quality as players.

This seems to be the second time you have not read what I wrote before responding. I believe I clearly typed that I find the win-chasers clueless. You may have missed that portion but just to be clear, winning is not, itself, indicative of much to me.

MU could be a place I would take my DD to if they were doing enough things well. In my opinion, they are below a top-level environment in SEVERAL areas no matter how many times parents say "they are developing so well". It simply isn't enough for me to just SAY things are just as good there as other places. I don't make decisions like that.

This is not to say they won't become a top-level environment someday. And if that happens and if that happens before my DD graduates HS and there are deficiencies in the environment she is in then maybe she will see if it is a good fit for her. Just like she would at any other club. It really is that simple. No cheerleading for me.

Actually no, I haven't misread you. As you are not in the program, I don't believe you are qualified to make those judgments.

Please share why you feel as such "In my opinion, they are below a top-level environment" given you aren't in the program and, other than scorelines and records, have not seen the current programming first hand?

I have watched more than a handful of training sessions and games. That is how I formed my opinion. What I saw is not the level of environment that I would consider top level. That includes the talent, the intensity and the staff. All to me are not top level.

[Anonymous]

There is no way someone not part of MU has watched more than a handful of practices and games. Shoot my DD plays for the club and I cannot make that claim. So the opinion is based on how Spirit ran things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no way someone not part of MU has watched more than a handful of practices and games. Shoot my DD plays for the club and I cannot make that claim. So the opinion is based on how Spirit ran things.

It’s amazing you know what I have watched better than I do. But, sure, whatever you say.

How things are run is more difficult to know from the outside.

[Anonymous]

Oh, brother, we’ve got a live one here. Reminds me of the mom from last year who was so upset about the same kinds things (playing up, field sizes, etc) but so unwilling to leave. If the environment isn’t right for you, you need to go elsewhere. That doesn’t make your opinion the word of absolute truth, even if you are scrutinizing every minute of every practice. At the end of the day, you are just a soccer parent, not an expert, and other MU parents have given accounts that challenge yours, other than on the general level of talent. In that point you are right, today it’s lower on average than that of a few other clubs and it shows in the results. And this has been stated a number of times in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no way someone not part of MU has watched more than a handful of practices and games. Shoot my DD plays for the club and I cannot make that claim. So the opinion is based on how Spirit ran things.

That's an important distinction. They are working on shifting the club culture, but have to correct a year or more of some bad habits and practices that have built up. It's an adjustment. There are more corrections needed, but it won't all happen overnight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no way someone not part of MU has watched more than a handful of practices and games. Shoot my DD plays for the club and I cannot make that claim. So the opinion is based on how Spirit ran things.

That's an important distinction. They are working on shifting the club culture, but have to correct a year or more of some bad habits and practices that have built up. It's an adjustment. There are more corrections needed, but it won't all happen overnight.

This sounds more like the coaches sales pitch to stay at MU or join MU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no way someone not part of MU has watched more than a handful of practices and games. Shoot my DD plays for the club and I cannot make that claim. So the opinion is based on how Spirit ran things.

That's an important distinction. They are working on shifting the club culture, but have to correct a year or more of some bad habits and practices that have built up. It's an adjustment. There are more corrections needed, but it won't all happen overnight.

This sounds more like the coaches sales pitch to stay at MU or join MU.

No, it's my opinion as a parent. I can tell things our different. My DD has also said that. We decided to give it one more year. If they show they are working towards being competitive, it's worth staying. That was something missing before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no way someone not part of MU has watched more than a handful of practices and games. Shoot my DD plays for the club and I cannot make that claim. So the opinion is based on how Spirit ran things.

If you are trying to assess the quality of the training and the environment ESPECIALLY at a club like MU that, at best, has soccer development as it's claimed primary focus, how can you not be watching the practices and games to make that assessment?

That is a serious question. You have a DD in the club and you don't know FIRSTHAND the quality of the training or watch the games to see HOW the team is playing (not the results)? And then you have an opinion as to how they are developing as players? Seriously?

It would be more honest for you to say, I have no firsthand idea how much development these girls are getting RELATIVE to the other options out there but my DD likes it so we are staying. That would be honest. How a club is run is a factor but at the elite level the quality of the training and the pace and quality of the development is much more important.