How does one prep place account for 25% of TJ Admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is why I think kids who aren't a part of FCPS from at least 5th grade onward should be heavily scrutinized and should have to clear a higher bar to be admitted to TJ. TJ should serve real FCPS students. It shouldn't serve FCPS tourists or private school kids (who are clearly more advantaged than their public school counterparts). TJ shouldn't even be accepting kids who are foreign citizens who move to FCPS in 7th or 8th solely to apply to TJ.

That's not legal, it's a public school.

How is it not legal? The application process is holistic, and they can accept or reject anyone using whatever criteria they use. Students rejected from TJ are still given a spot at their local high school.

How can you reject non-citizens from one or two countries and not all non-citizens? Think about that for a minute. You're saying a kid should have to be a documented US citizen to be able to apply to a public magnet school? The Washington Post would be all over that story.

DP

This says rejecting all foreign students who enter after 7th. WaPo should be all over the story about people moving from another country to attend TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

DP

This says rejecting all foreign students who enter after 7th. WaPo should be all over the story about people moving from another country to attend TJ.

I would love to see the stats for just how many kids accepted to TJ were not in FCPS at all prior to 7th grade. It's a huge problem if an FCPS elementary and middle school education puts you at a significant disadvantage for TJ admission relative to foreign kids and private school kids (who are often ahead in math relative to FCPS kids).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DP

This says rejecting all foreign students who enter after 7th. WaPo should be all over the story about people moving from another country to attend TJ.

I would love to see the stats for just how many kids accepted to TJ were not in FCPS at all prior to 7th grade. It's a huge problem if an FCPS elementary and middle school education puts you at a significant disadvantage for TJ admission relative to foreign kids and private school kids (who are often ahead in math relative to FCPS kids).

I wouldnt be surprised at all to see higher rates of foreign and private students making the cut. The way people are pushing to reduce standards for AAP and TJ to increase enrollment of less qualified students, other jurisdictions and privates will absolutely surpass FCPS elementary kids in math and science

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would people from overseas be planning to go to TJ?
Unacceptable.

This has been happening for decades and became extremely popular when US News and World Report started putting out rankings of the best high schools in America. The massive South Asian immigration to Northern Virginia (not just from India, but also from other parts of the US) happened in part because of these rankings and a false belief that a degree from TJ is a ticket to an Ivy League school (fewer than 10% of TJ graduates attend Ivies).

TJ is a high school, so graduates earn a diploma, not a degree.

Very important distinction. [/s]

Actually, it is an important distinction in the education world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DP

This says rejecting all foreign students who enter after 7th. WaPo should be all over the story about people moving from another country to attend TJ.

I would love to see the stats for just how many kids accepted to TJ were not in FCPS at all prior to 7th grade. It's a huge problem if an FCPS elementary and middle school education puts you at a significant disadvantage for TJ admission relative to foreign kids and private school kids (who are often ahead in math relative to FCPS kids).

I wouldnt be surprised at all to see higher rates of foreign and private students making the cut. The way people are pushing to reduce improve standards for AAP and TJ to increase enrollment of less qualifieddiverse types of students, other jurisdictions and privates will absolutely surpass FCPS elementary kids in math and science test-taking ability

Fixed it for you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DP

This says rejecting all foreign students who enter after 7th. WaPo should be all over the story about people moving from another country to attend TJ.

I would love to see the stats for just how many kids accepted to TJ were not in FCPS at all prior to 7th grade. It's a huge problem if an FCPS elementary and middle school education puts you at a significant disadvantage for TJ admission relative to foreign kids and private school kids (who are often ahead in math relative to FCPS kids).

I wouldnt be surprised at all to see higher rates of foreign and private students making the cut. The way people are pushing to reduce improve standards for AAP and TJ to increase enrollment of less qualifieddiverse types of students, other jurisdictions and privates will absolutely surpass FCPS elementary kids in math and science test-taking ability

Fixed it for you

It was right the first time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I wouldnt be surprised at all to see higher rates of foreign and private students making the cut. The way people are pushing to reduce standards for AAP and TJ to increase enrollment of less qualified students, other jurisdictions and privates will absolutely surpass FCPS elementary kids in math and science

Meh. The best solution, then, is to increase the cutoff levels a little for the TJ tests, and lottery off the TJ slots on a racially representative basis to anyone who makes the semifinalist cut. Everyone would be qualified, there would be more diversity, and no one would be overly advantaged by prep classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I wouldnt be surprised at all to see higher rates of foreign and private students making the cut. The way people are pushing to reduce standards for AAP and TJ to increase enrollment of less qualified students, other jurisdictions and privates will absolutely surpass FCPS elementary kids in math and science

Meh. The best solution, then, is to increase the cutoff levels a little for the TJ tests, and lottery off the TJ slots on a racially representative basis to anyone who makes the semifinalist cut. Everyone would be qualified, there would be more diversity, and no one would be overly advantaged by prep classes.

I see where you're going here, but I think even the percentile cutoffs are a little wacky.

For example, as it stands right now, if a student is in the 99% percentile in math and the 99th percentile in science, but the 74th percentile in English, they will not be a semifinalist. Another student who is in the 75th for all three would be. I just think that's goofy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I wouldnt be surprised at all to see higher rates of foreign and private students making the cut. The way people are pushing to reduce standards for AAP and TJ to increase enrollment of less qualified students, other jurisdictions and privates will absolutely surpass FCPS elementary kids in math and science

Meh. The best solution, then, is to increase the cutoff levels a little for the TJ tests, and lottery off the TJ slots on a racially representative basis to anyone who makes the semifinalist cut. Everyone would be qualified, there would be more diversity, and no one would be overly advantaged by prep classes.

how would this address the fact that not enough kids in the under represented groups are making the cut off?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I wouldnt be surprised at all to see higher rates of foreign and private students making the cut. The way people are pushing to reduce standards for AAP and TJ to increase enrollment of less qualified students, other jurisdictions and privates will absolutely surpass FCPS elementary kids in math and science

Meh. The best solution, then, is to increase the cutoff levels a little for the TJ tests, and lottery off the TJ slots on a racially representative basis to anyone who makes the semifinalist cut. Everyone would be qualified, there would be more diversity, and no one would be overly advantaged by prep classes.

how would this address the fact that not enough kids in the under represented groups are making the cut off?

Have they released a list of semifinalists by race? A few PPs have provided anecdata about how their AA or Hispanic kids made semifinalist with very high scores, but then were not picked for admission. So, it's possible that there are AA and Hispanic kids who are making the cut, but look less good holistically, since they aren't doing prep camps. For the most recent round of admissions, 160 AA students applied, but only 6 were given spots at TJ. I highly doubt that 154/160 AA kids didn't make the semifinalist cutoffs.

Also, it's possible that qualified minorities aren't applying at all, under the assumption that they have no chance of being picked compared to the prepping-since-preschool crowd.

Either way, if TJ can accept 500 kids and should be 10% AA, based on FCPS demographics, but only 30 AA kids make the cutoff, then all 30 should get in. They can then backfill the remaining 20 spots with qualified candidates from over-represented races.

[Anonymous]

Or..... and hear me out.... what if there were no exam? What if we used....

- more robust teacher recommendations that were designed to identify top performers in each class/school, not only on metrics of academic performance, but also improving the recommendations to include areas like grit, determination, response to adversity, concern for others, academic citizenship, integrity, etc?

- SIS questions that give a stronger overall profile of each student and allow an admissions committee to create a balanced class - Do you even want to go to TJ? How would you impact an academic community? What do you want to be when you grow up? What sort of things do you enjoy outside of STEM?

- GPA and SOL scores to establish a baseline of competency in the relevant courses, with no favoritism towards kids who are in Geometry or higher in 8th grade?

- an interview process designed to help determine which kids are genuine in their interest and aptitude for a comprehensive advanced education with a focus on STEM?

A class of students selected in this way would have a MUCH, MUCH higher ceiling than the current classes that walk around TJ right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I wouldnt be surprised at all to see higher rates of foreign and private students making the cut. The way people are pushing to reduce standards for AAP and TJ to increase enrollment of less qualified students, other jurisdictions and privates will absolutely surpass FCPS elementary kids in math and science

Meh. The best solution, then, is to increase the cutoff levels a little for the TJ tests, and lottery off the TJ slots on a racially representative basis to anyone who makes the semifinalist cut. Everyone would be qualified, there would be more diversity, and no one would be overly advantaged by prep classes.

how would this address the fact that not enough kids in the under represented groups are making the cut off?

Have they released a list of semifinalists by race? A few PPs have provided anecdata about how their AA or Hispanic kids made semifinalist with very high scores, but then were not picked for admission. So, it's possible that there are AA and Hispanic kids who are making the cut, but look less good holistically, since they aren't doing prep camps. For the most recent round of admissions, 160 AA students applied, but only 6 were given spots at TJ. I highly doubt that 154/160 AA kids didn't make the semifinalist cutoffs.

Also, it's possible that qualified minorities aren't applying at all, under the assumption that they have no chance of being picked compared to the prepping-since-preschool crowd.

Either way, if TJ can accept 500 kids and should be 10% AA, based on FCPS demographics, but only 30 AA kids make the cutoff, then all 30 should get in. They can then backfill the remaining 20 spots with qualified candidates from over-represented races.

This is really smart. And no, FCPS has never released demographic breakdowns of semifinalists by race. I think once they might have released the SF numbers by middle school, but there were so many TSes on there for schools that aren't the biggies that it wasn't terribly useful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Or..... and hear me out.... what if there were no exam? What if we used....

- more robust teacher recommendations that were designed to identify top performers in each class/school, not only on metrics of academic performance, but also improving the recommendations to include areas like grit, determination, response to adversity, concern for others, academic citizenship, integrity, etc?

- SIS questions that give a stronger overall profile of each student and allow an admissions committee to create a balanced class - Do you even want to go to TJ? How would you impact an academic community? What do you want to be when you grow up? What sort of things do you enjoy outside of STEM?

- GPA and SOL scores to establish a baseline of competency in the relevant courses, with no favoritism towards kids who are in Geometry or higher in 8th grade?

- an interview process designed to help determine which kids are genuine in their interest and aptitude for a comprehensive advanced education with a focus on STEM?

A class of students selected in this way would have a MUCH, MUCH higher ceiling than the current classes that walk around TJ right now.

woe to the poor teachers if their recommendations become make or break from TJ- they'll be a level of flattery and intimidation that none of them will want to deal with

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or..... and hear me out.... what if there were no exam? What if we used....

- more robust teacher recommendations that were designed to identify top performers in each class/school, not only on metrics of academic performance, but also improving the recommendations to include areas like grit, determination, response to adversity, concern for others, academic citizenship, integrity, etc?

- SIS questions that give a stronger overall profile of each student and allow an admissions committee to create a balanced class - Do you even want to go to TJ? How would you impact an academic community? What do you want to be when you grow up? What sort of things do you enjoy outside of STEM?

- GPA and SOL scores to establish a baseline of competency in the relevant courses, with no favoritism towards kids who are in Geometry or higher in 8th grade?

- an interview process designed to help determine which kids are genuine in their interest and aptitude for a comprehensive advanced education with a focus on STEM?

A class of students selected in this way would have a MUCH, MUCH higher ceiling than the current classes that walk around TJ right now.

woe to the poor teachers if their recommendations become make or break from TJ- they'll be a level of flattery and intimidation that none of them will want to deal with

I think in any realistic scenario, they wouldn't be make or break, but they would be weighted fairly heavily and designed to distinguish students from one another. And if private, which they are currently, there's no way for parents of unsuccessful applicants to know that that's the reason why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or..... and hear me out.... what if there were no exam? What if we used....

- more robust teacher recommendations that were designed to identify top performers in each class/school, not only on metrics of academic performance, but also improving the recommendations to include areas like grit, determination, response to adversity, concern for others, academic citizenship, integrity, etc?

- SIS questions that give a stronger overall profile of each student and allow an admissions committee to create a balanced class - Do you even want to go to TJ? How would you impact an academic community? What do you want to be when you grow up? What sort of things do you enjoy outside of STEM?

- GPA and SOL scores to establish a baseline of competency in the relevant courses, with no favoritism towards kids who are in Geometry or higher in 8th grade?

- an interview process designed to help determine which kids are genuine in their interest and aptitude for a comprehensive advanced education with a focus on STEM?

A class of students selected in this way would have a MUCH, MUCH higher ceiling than the current classes that walk around TJ right now.

woe to the poor teachers if their recommendations become make or break from TJ- they'll be a level of flattery and intimidation that none of them will want to deal with

I think in any realistic scenario, they wouldn't be make or break, but they would be weighted fairly heavily and designed to distinguish students from one another. And if private, which they are currently, there's no way for parents of unsuccessful applicants to know that that's the reason why.

And by the way....intimidation would probably result in poor reviews. But all of the other areas... I think teachers would rather enjoy a classroom of students who had a desire to display all of the qualities mentioned. It might even make them into better students. But the teacher recommendation form has never been public in its current form and I don't imagine that a new one would be either.