7 Math teachers are leaving Richard Montgomerry HS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mr. and Mrs. Goetz are the best! The best Math and Physics teachers my kid had. College was a breeze after RMIB, thanks to really amazing teachers.

The new Principal is a bit dim. We knew that he would hate the magnet program because he does not have the intellectual capacity to understand what the program is all about and what these kids need. How is his progeny getting in? Has he managed to sufficiently dumbed down the program or is it nepotism?

Hey, everything in MCPS is being f**cked up so why not this?

Yea, he wants to dumb the program down so that his child fails to get the diploma. Talk about dim wit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mr. and Mrs. Goetz are the best! The best Math and Physics teachers my kid had. College was a breeze after RMIB, thanks to really amazing teachers.

The new Principal is a bit dim. We knew that he would hate the magnet program because he does not have the intellectual capacity to understand what the program is all about and what these kids need. How is his progeny getting in? Has he managed to sufficiently dumbed down the program or is it nepotism?

Hey, everything in MCPS is being f**cked up so why not this?

Does anyone even know if he got in?

Why does it matter? He's been the Principal there for several years, before his child applied.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they are upset with the 50% rule on tests? But this is also MPCS standard so unless they are leaving the county the policy will be the same.

What 50% rule on test? Is it new?

No nothing new. The concept is that if a kid takes a test and fails they will not get a grade lower than 50%. The philosophy is that it gives them an opportunity to recover with other grades rather than taking away all hope of passing so the kids stops going to the class. Controversial but used in other school systems outside of MCPS too.

Thank you.
I found an article about MCPS's 50% rule of test: https://rockvillerampage.com/6513/opinion/grading-system-still-a-problem/
It is not new. So this may not the reason that made the teachers leave RM HS.

It's part of the problem.

actually a BIG part of the problem b/c admin and kids abuse it

It's all BS, folks. all BS . . .

IME, many teachers believe themselves to be good teachers but are actually terrible at the construction of fair tests and providing feedback around tests. Any teacher who opposes the 50% rule desrves to be pushed out IMO. It’s a reflection that they don’t understand the math behind grading practices and basic student motivation. It’s never a good practice to construct quarterly grades in a way that one test can tank a grade and that’s what happens without the 50% rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they are upset with the 50% rule on tests? But this is also MPCS standard so unless they are leaving the county the policy will be the same.

What 50% rule on test? Is it new?

No nothing new. The concept is that if a kid takes a test and fails they will not get a grade lower than 50%. The philosophy is that it gives them an opportunity to recover with other grades rather than taking away all hope of passing so the kids stops going to the class. Controversial but used in other school systems outside of MCPS too.

Thank you.
I found an article about MCPS's 50% rule of test: https://rockvillerampage.com/6513/opinion/grading-system-still-a-problem/
It is not new. So this may not the reason that made the teachers leave RM HS.

It's part of the problem.

actually a BIG part of the problem b/c admin and kids abuse it

It's all BS, folks. all BS . . .

IME, many teachers believe themselves to be good teachers but are actually terrible at the construction of fair tests and providing feedback around tests. Any teacher who opposes the 50% rule desrves to be pushed out IMO. It’s a reflection that they don’t understand the math behind grading practices and basic student motivation. It’s never a good practice to construct quarterly grades in a way that one test can tank a grade and that’s what happens without the 50% rule.

Yes, completely agree. If a math teacher can't function under the 50% rule, there's a more fundamental issue.

[Anonymous]

This exodus is not about the 50% rule folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This exodus is not about the 50% rule folks.

Then what is the reason?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My RM student reports that the 7 teachers are leaving in protest of certain policies. Nothing specific to IB. They teach other classes too. He did not have enough specifics on the issues for me to repeat. One related to the 50% rule but was not like they were taking a stand and not doing it. I am sure what I heard was not complete or totally accurate.

I would normally ignore this type of thread, but there too many partial truths presented in a misleading manner that shouldn't stand.

The primary issue was over the grading and reporting policy https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/grading/0106.18_Grading%20procedures6-12%20(1).pdf and specifically

When using points or percentages, a teacher assigns a grade no lower than 50 percent to the task/assessment. If a student does no work on the task/assessment, the teacher will assign a zero. If a teacher determines that the student did not attempt to meet the basic requirements of the task/assess-ment, the teacher may assign a zero.

Note that this policy was put in place in 2006, and there have been teachers at RM who have disagreed with it ever since. The process many teachers in the math department were using was to put in actual quiz and test scores, even if lower than 50%, and not change it until the end of the quarter. This meant that students, parents, and administrators had no idea what the student's grade would be, and there have been complaints from parents about teachers not following the grading policy. The issue came to a head at the end of 1st semester and teachers were told directly that they must follow the policy and not enter any grade less than 50% in the gradebook. There were hard feelings about it, needless to say.

While people may be freaking about these math teachers because they are well known, you haven't been paying attention that the math department has steadily been turning over several math teachers every year. This isn't unique this year. Anyway besides Ms. McDonald retiring, Mr. Chase is taking a promotion to department head at WJ, and another teacher is moving to Nevada. And perhaps it was time for some of the other teachers to move on to a different school.

This is absolutely false. I have kids in RM IB since 2012, the last one would graduate in 2020. Chemistry and History department has taken the hit due to administration meddling over the last 3 years, but Math Department has been fairly steady. Mr. Chase is taking a promotion, but he did not chose to move out for that. He was in tears just yesterday, reading farewell letters...he had no intention to leave. Mrs. McDonald is taking early retirement. One of the teachers who is leaving asked the students to talk to parents about how this is not normal.

BTW, RM administrators are in DCUM and write responses to these threads and meddle the pictures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My RM student reports that the 7 teachers are leaving in protest of certain policies. Nothing specific to IB. They teach other classes too. He did not have enough specifics on the issues for me to repeat. One related to the 50% rule but was not like they were taking a stand and not doing it. I am sure what I heard was not complete or totally accurate.

I would normally ignore this type of thread, but there too many partial truths presented in a misleading manner that shouldn't stand.

The primary issue was over the grading and reporting policy https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/grading/0106.18_Grading%20procedures6-12%20(1).pdf and specifically

When using points or percentages, a teacher assigns a grade no lower than 50 percent to the task/assessment. If a student does no work on the task/assessment, the teacher will assign a zero. If a teacher determines that the student did not attempt to meet the basic requirements of the task/assess-ment, the teacher may assign a zero.

Note that this policy was put in place in 2006, and there have been teachers at RM who have disagreed with it ever since. The process many teachers in the math department were using was to put in actual quiz and test scores, even if lower than 50%, and not change it until the end of the quarter. This meant that students, parents, and administrators had no idea what the student's grade would be, and there have been complaints from parents about teachers not following the grading policy. The issue came to a head at the end of 1st semester and teachers were told directly that they must follow the policy and not enter any grade less than 50% in the gradebook. There were hard feelings about it, needless to say.

While people may be freaking about these math teachers because they are well known, you haven't been paying attention that the math department has steadily been turning over several math teachers every year. This isn't unique this year. Anyway besides Ms. McDonald retiring, Mr. Chase is taking a promotion to department head at WJ, and another teacher is moving to Nevada. And perhaps it was time for some of the other teachers to move on to a different school.

This is absolutely false. I have kids in RM IB since 2012, the last one would graduate in 2020. Chemistry and History department has taken the hit due to administration meddling over the last 3 years, but Math Department has been fairly steady. Mr. Chase is taking a promotion, but he did not chose to move out for that. He was in tears just yesterday, reading farewell letters...he had no intention to leave. Mrs. McDonald is taking early retirement. One of the teachers who is leaving asked the students to talk to parents about how this is not normal.

BTW, RM administrators are in DCUM and write responses to these threads and meddle the pictures.

? How do you know this? But even if they are, often times, I find that there are two sides to every story. No.. I'm not an RM admin. I am an RM parent of a rising 9th grader.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My RM student reports that the 7 teachers are leaving in protest of certain policies. Nothing specific to IB. They teach other classes too. He did not have enough specifics on the issues for me to repeat. One related to the 50% rule but was not like they were taking a stand and not doing it. I am sure what I heard was not complete or totally accurate.

I would normally ignore this type of thread, but there too many partial truths presented in a misleading manner that shouldn't stand.

The primary issue was over the grading and reporting policy https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/grading/0106.18_Grading%20procedures6-12%20(1).pdf and specifically

When using points or percentages, a teacher assigns a grade no lower than 50 percent to the task/assessment. If a student does no work on the task/assessment, the teacher will assign a zero. If a teacher determines that the student did not attempt to meet the basic requirements of the task/assess-ment, the teacher may assign a zero.

Note that this policy was put in place in 2006, and there have been teachers at RM who have disagreed with it ever since. The process many teachers in the math department were using was to put in actual quiz and test scores, even if lower than 50%, and not change it until the end of the quarter. This meant that students, parents, and administrators had no idea what the student's grade would be, and there have been complaints from parents about teachers not following the grading policy. The issue came to a head at the end of 1st semester and teachers were told directly that they must follow the policy and not enter any grade less than 50% in the gradebook. There were hard feelings about it, needless to say.

While people may be freaking about these math teachers because they are well known, you haven't been paying attention that the math department has steadily been turning over several math teachers every year. This isn't unique this year. Anyway besides Ms. McDonald retiring, Mr. Chase is taking a promotion to department head at WJ, and another teacher is moving to Nevada. And perhaps it was time for some of the other teachers to move on to a different school.

This is absolutely false. I have kids in RM IB since 2012, the last one would graduate in 2020. Chemistry and History department has taken the hit due to administration meddling over the last 3 years, but Math Department has been fairly steady. Mr. Chase is taking a promotion, but he did not chose to move out for that. He was in tears just yesterday, reading farewell letters...he had no intention to leave. Mrs. McDonald is taking early retirement. One of the teachers who is leaving asked the students to talk to parents about how this is not normal.

BTW, RM administrators are in DCUM and write responses to these threads and meddle the pictures.

? How do you know this? But even if they are, often times, I find that there are two sides to every story. No.. I'm not an RM admin. I am an RM parent of a rising 9th grader.

Yeah, and with this story no one's presenting either side. I'm not buying that DCUM misinformation, comes from school admins. This site generates muddles without insider assistance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like at least one retired and one moved out of state. Does anyone know where the others are going? (Nearby schools? Heaven knows some schools could use good math teachers!)

One got a promotion to head the math department at WJ. Maybe the other 4 are the ones who are upset with school policies.

The one who took retirement, took an early retirement because she was tired of theRM admin BS. The one took promotion took it after he decided to leave RM. He had been in RM for 17 years, teahing IB kids for that long, and considers the students in magnet IB, as the love of his life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an RM student here who has talked to some of the IB teachers that are leaving. There are 7 total teachers who are leaving and not all of them teach IB but the whole entire IB precalculus department is leaving. This means that 95% of the rising sophomore class will have a teacher who is unfamiliar with teaching IB precalculus according to the HL and SL pathways. One of the teachers confirmed that they along with other IB affiliated teachers were leaving because Ms. Goetz was being pushed down from being the department head. We have heard that Ms. Goetz, a great math teacher with tons of experience in the IB curriculum (like all the precalculus teachers that are leaving) will soon be leaving. Students feel confused and frustrated that we’re not getting any straight answers about WHY they’re leaving and what the future of IB math is going to look like, as well as the fact that we feel unsupported in the school. It feels like the administration doesn’t like IB, and it doesn’t feel too great to go to a school where you feel like the outsiders even though you walk in and out of the same doors that kids zoned for RM do. With the new IB administration, there is much confusion about DP pathways and there is not much support when high achievers try to aim high and take rigorous course loads. I guess this is just an insider’s perspective.

That is not new right? My kid graduated RMIB 4 years ago and spent two years under the current Principal. Even then I remember my kid telling me that kids don't think the current Principal likes the program. I remember criticisms I heard were - no school (RM) spirit, not integrated with main body, hangs by themselves...etc. I sense at the time was that the new guy really didn't understand and didn't appreciate the particular needs of these kids. Hoover did but she got pushed out for protecting the program. My guess is that these teachers' tried to hang on but just couldn't do it any longer. I really feel that the program is dying. Sad story actually...

I am curious to know if the program has suffered since the new Principal took over. I remember when my child was admitted a few years ago 93% of the RMIB program earned an IB diploma. Their website says that in 2017 88% received a diploma. Curious about what happened in 2018

The principal and his crony (who become the coordinator later) successfully schemed together to push the magnet IB coordinator out in 2017!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an RM student here who has talked to some of the IB teachers that are leaving. There are 7 total teachers who are leaving and not all of them teach IB but the whole entire IB precalculus department is leaving. This means that 95% of the rising sophomore class will have a teacher who is unfamiliar with teaching IB precalculus according to the HL and SL pathways. One of the teachers confirmed that they along with other IB affiliated teachers were leaving because Ms. Goetz was being pushed down from being the department head. We have heard that Ms. Goetz, a great math teacher with tons of experience in the IB curriculum (like all the precalculus teachers that are leaving) will soon be leaving. Students feel confused and frustrated that we’re not getting any straight answers about WHY they’re leaving and what the future of IB math is going to look like, as well as the fact that we feel unsupported in the school. It feels like the administration doesn’t like IB, and it doesn’t feel too great to go to a school where you feel like the outsiders even though you walk in and out of the same doors that kids zoned for RM do. With the new IB administration, there is much confusion about DP pathways and there is not much support when high achievers try to aim high and take rigorous course loads. I guess this is just an insider’s perspective.

That is not new right? My kid graduated RMIB 4 years ago and spent two years under the current Principal. Even then I remember my kid telling me that kids don't think the current Principal likes the program. I remember criticisms I heard were - no school (RM) spirit, not integrated with main body, hangs by themselves...etc. I sense at the time was that the new guy really didn't understand and didn't appreciate the particular needs of these kids. Hoover did but she got pushed out for protecting the program. My guess is that these teachers' tried to hang on but just couldn't do it any longer. I really feel that the program is dying. Sad story actually...

I am curious to know if the program has suffered since the new Principal took over. I remember when my child was admitted a few years ago 93% of the RMIB program earned an IB diploma. Their website says that in 2017 88% received a diploma. Curious about what happened in 2018

I'm a parent of a current IB student. Despite bashing RMIB being a favorite pastime of several DCUM posters, from my viewpoint, the program seems fine. Why kids don't earn diplomas was discussed at a PAC meeting. Sometimes kids don't complete some very specific things required by IB, such as finishing their extended essay, or sitting one of their exams. Once they have gotten into college, some don't see the need to actually get their IB diploma. Steps are being taken to address some of that. Students that don't meet certain milestones in their Junior year will have to meet with parents and magnet administrators and may be "counseled out" of the program.

Also - a PP said current magnet coordinators were confused about math pathways. Actually sounds like PP is confused - IB just rolled out changes to the math courses and testing, so RM had to respond by adjusting their various courses and pathways for the magnet (9th & 10th) program and the diploma program. This also was presented to parents at a PAC meeting.

https://www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/mathematics/

Four courses are currently available in mathematics and these courses will have their last assessment in November 2020:

mathematical studies standard level
mathematics standard level
mathematics higher level
further mathematics higher level

From August 2019 the following courses, with first assessment in May 2021, will be available:

Mathematics: analysis and approaches SL
Mathematics: analysis and approaches HL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation SL
Mathematics: applications and interpretation HL

I bet my pretty dollars that this is a particular RM administrator, who also happens to be a IB parent!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This exodus is not about the 50% rule folks.

Then what is the reason?

School administration (A.K.A. the principal).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coming from a cluster ES of RM, I am extremely nervous. There used to be so many complaints of JW and now it seems like RM has had so many issues. Fights, sex in halls, fired teachers, teachers leaving, scores going down, and they are consistently going down in the rankings every year.

Is it the principle or the program? Is the program a bandaid on a bad school? Or is the program getting too much attention and leading to a bad school. I don't know, but a lot of parents seem to be complaining. Old teachers. Teachers that don't communicate. Principal issues, and now staffing issues.

We almost chose a house in QO district and I thought this would be the better school. Thinking we made the wrong decision.

If I were to guess from what I'm reading here, it's the principal's unwillingness to embrace and foster this program that is harming the school more than anything.

Again, the Principal's own child applied to the program. Let's put the parent hat on for a minute and not the Principal hat. Would I want my child to apply to a program that I personally don't like and want to foster? I'm thinking not.

The Principal cares about the tag more than the quality of the program. His kid will get the tag based on his influence to get him admitted to the magnet IB and the principal get recognition from MCPS by furthering MCPS agenda to increase access even at the expense of the kids who the program suppose to serve. He has the cake and ate it too!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just FYI as it's a bit related to this topic: I noticed this testimony from last night's board meeting. In a quick glance thru looks like the cluster rep is trying to help but is up against a push to 'fix' the IB program by making it available in more locations.
https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/BCPP9E62BAA6/$file/Rodney%20Peele.pdf

I think it will weaken RM. They will no longer be choosing from the whole county. While it might be good for the county over all, it is not good for RM IB...unless they are zoned for all the W schools.

The panic in RM cluster is exactly for this reason. You can hear it in the Cluster Coordinator's testimony above. Where was he when the RM Principal was assaulting the integrity of magnet program by admitting more and more cluster students every year to RM IB without any screening?