The Other VA publics: CNU, GM, JMU, Radford, ODU, UMW, VCU

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Big companies still go to all of these schools

After your first job no one cares where you went to school anyway

I went to JMU 10 years ago and I had a lot of fun

Now I make over 6 figures and I would have done just as well as any of the other colleges on this list

Again, we know that. There's nothing wrong with JMU. I'm just saying that if you're from NOVA and truly are a borderline UVA admit, as was my daughter, it can be a let down to have to go there. Her high school probably sent two or three dozen kids there, including some good friends, none of whom performed as well as she did academically.

2017-2018 Freshman Enrollment from Fairfax County

GMU - 1,031
VT - 959
UVA - 680
JMU - 600

More likely to run into kids from your same high school at UVA than JMU.

I'm not the poster who said JMU is high school 2.0. The point is that our daughter was a better student than the two or three dozen of her classmates who went to JMU, and she wanted something better for her efforts.

You - and your daughter - sound insufferable. It's really a good thing she didn't go to JMU. That school has a reputation as one of the most welcoming, friendly, down-to-earth environments a student could choose. She would really bring things down had she gone there.

[Anonymous]

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Yes, but it's amazing that we have three public schools that cover top-notch flagship, SLAC and tech. And then a whole crop of other schools that are as good as or better than the 1 flagship in another state. I think the one challenging thing is that UVA + W&M in numbers total less than the numbers at another state flagship so it gets very competitive.

We are lucky in VA, but I do think there are better (and still affordable) options for the kids that just miss out on UVA/W&M. I can see why someone would want their kid with maybe a 4.1 and 1460 SAT (who might be rejected from UVA/W&M) to go to an OOS school with a national reputation over JMU or GMU. It wouldn't necessarily have a higher cost than W&M with its $35K price tag.

I'm the poster with the strong student who made clear she'd be very unhappy going below UVA in state. That was exactly her thinking, and fortunately we had the money to pay for her to go anywhere. We weren't willing to pay full freight for a private school (to us, that made no sense for anything lower than top 10-15), so we said we'd pay for a strong OOS flagship. She got into a good one, paid the deposit, and would have been happy to go. But she ended up getting into UVA off the waitlist so it all ended well.

Well, that's the thing, isn't it? Not everyone has the money to pay OOS, and frankly, it's often even harder to get admitted as an OOS. My kid is a very strong student, they technically have the numbers that would put them in range at UVA or WM, but that's not a guarantee with all of the other high achieving students applying. I really hate the attitude that you and you your daughter are fostering that if a bright student doesn't get the golden ticket or possess $$$ they're doomed.

I'm not suggesting that you're "doomed" if you can't get into William & Mary or UVA in state and have to settle for another in state school. There's nothing wrong with JMU, GMU, etc., it's just that the gap between UVA/W&M and the other VA schools in terms of admission is so great -- JMU truly doesn't mean "Just Missed UVA" -- that there are many, many great schools falling somewhere in between. For example, other than Northwestern a borderline UVA admit from in state is a likely admit to every Big 10 school, most of which are great, fun, and have national reputations. If you can afford them, why not? They're certainly less expensive than private schools.

That is absolutely not certain. Many privates are a heckuva lot cheaper than OOS B10 schools.

After merit aid, maybe, but the best privates typically don't offer merit aid. I'm talking about full price for a top ranked private versus full price for OOS Big Ten. Big Ten is always cheaper.

Ugh. I feel like you are being deliberately obtuse.

First off, getting into a top ranked private is probably as difficult to get into as getting into UVA or harder, so it's not worth including them in this example.
Second, even if we go with your assumption that the OOS Big Ten will always be cheaper than the top private... that OOS Big Ten is STILL more expensive than in state VA.
I have found a few exceptions...
University of Missouri: if you have a certain GPA + SAT/ACT score, they will essentially make up the difference in cost for OOS student and will admit the student.
University of Alabama has similar type of offer.
Unless you are talking about the OOS options that bring the level back down to in-state cost, it is frustrating to hear you keep hammering away at OOS option, like it the obvious choice and anyone should automatically do it if they don't get into UVA.
As multiple people on this thread have explained, many solidly middle class people are not going to qualify for need-based aid, and are also not going to be able to afford OOS options.

Um . . . neither Missouri nor Alabama are in the Big Ten -- or as good as virtually any Big Ten school.

I also never said that OOS Big Ten cost the same as UVA in state. I said they're more expensive than in state UVA but less expensive than private but may still be worth the extra money over the other in state VA options because the Big Ten schools are better (generally) than those options.

Not being obtuse, deliberate or otherwise. I understand that some folks don't have the money to go OOS Big Ten and settle instead for JMU etc. That's fine.

DP. You are truly missing the point if you think students "settle" for JMU, etc. Many kids CHOOSE JMU over other, more widely recognized schools. Why? Because it's a great fit for them. JMU offers something for everyone. It's clear you can't imagine someone choosing JMU (or VT, or GMU, etc.) over your "Big Ten" wish list, but that's just ridiculous. My kids wouldn't want anything to do with a Big Ten school. Your first choice (or rather, your CHILD's first choice - hopefully) isn't at all what my kids' would be. Some people go for the right fit, period.

only 29 percent of applicants who were accepted to JMU enrolled. 71 percent went elsewhere. not a first choice for many.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The trashing that invariably happens on these threads is sick. How about some gratitude for the fantastic in-state options Virginia offers?

People always talk about the "fantastic" colleges available in Virginia, but beyond W&M, UVA, Tech, and JMU the other schools are on par with other states' public universitites.

Is JMU fantastic? By what measure? Just trying to be honest (and non-provincial) as ‘great’ and ‘fantastic’ get thrown around a lot. Test and gpa numbers, graduation rate, pretty much any ranking. Are comparably-ranked Stetson and Appy State great schools? In our school the top 10th/25th percentile students shoot for UVA/W&M/VPI(engineering) and the next tier shoot for JMU.

Agree. Our daughter made clear that after working her butt off in her NOVA public high school that it was UVA or out of state. There would be no “settling” for JMU, where kids from her class with a fraction of her AP courseload and GPA and test scores were going. It’s a top 1/3 kind of place. That’s it.

While that might be true, I honestly don't know, it sounds SO incredibly snotty and elitest. Also, new flash - just going to UVA does not automatically translate into EITHER a more successful career or, more importantly, a happy or fulfilled life. GET OVER YOURSELF. And even if your kid is a great fit for UVA, that does NOT make other choices bad or inappropriate for all the kids you clearly look down upon - ya know, the kids who are only in the top 1/3. You're nauseating.

I'm just telling it like it is. I have no doubt you and your kid in the same shoes would feel the same way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Big companies still go to all of these schools

After your first job no one cares where you went to school anyway

I went to JMU 10 years ago and I had a lot of fun

Now I make over 6 figures and I would have done just as well as any of the other colleges on this list

Again, we know that. There's nothing wrong with JMU. I'm just saying that if you're from NOVA and truly are a borderline UVA admit, as was my daughter, it can be a let down to have to go there. Her high school probably sent two or three dozen kids there, including some good friends, none of whom performed as well as she did academically.

2017-2018 Freshman Enrollment from Fairfax County

GMU - 1,031
VT - 959
UVA - 680
JMU - 600

More likely to run into kids from your same high school at UVA than JMU.

I'm not the poster who said JMU is high school 2.0. The point is that our daughter was a better student than the two or three dozen of her classmates who went to JMU, and she wanted something better for her efforts.

Then she should have worked harder to get it. No participation trophies in college admissions. Stop whining and move on. The problem was that she and likely you as well were so hell bent on UVA that everywhere else was a runner up.

She got in

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My DD is a senior applying early action to JMU and CNU. She's undecided/arts/humanities. I'm hopeful she'll be accepted to both (4.2 weighted 1300 SAT), but she may have a tough decision to make. She likes both a lot but for different reasons. I'm reading this thread with interest...

Your daughter should apply to UVA. She'd be in the running.

I feel like it wouldn't be impossible, but it might be tough. Plus, she didn't even want to look at the school. We toured W&M though and she didn't like the vibe or the campus at all. Oh well!

Same with my kids. Similar stats as your DD, but uninterested in either UVA or W&M.

Uninterested, or unwilling to take the risk of applying and being rejected? If the latter, that's too bad. She'd be in the running.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Big companies still go to all of these schools

After your first job no one cares where you went to school anyway

I went to JMU 10 years ago and I had a lot of fun

Now I make over 6 figures and I would have done just as well as any of the other colleges on this list

Again, we know that. There's nothing wrong with JMU. I'm just saying that if you're from NOVA and truly are a borderline UVA admit, as was my daughter, it can be a let down to have to go there. Her high school probably sent two or three dozen kids there, including some good friends, none of whom performed as well as she did academically.

2017-2018 Freshman Enrollment from Fairfax County

GMU - 1,031
VT - 959
UVA - 680
JMU - 600

More likely to run into kids from your same high school at UVA than JMU.

I'm not the poster who said JMU is high school 2.0. The point is that our daughter was a better student than the two or three dozen of her classmates who went to JMU, and she wanted something better for her efforts.

You - and your daughter - sound insufferable. It's really a good thing she didn't go to JMU. That school has a reputation as one of the most welcoming, friendly, down-to-earth environments a student could choose. She would really bring things down had she gone there.

Again, she never considered JMU. I know a lot of kids who went there, though, and they're happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Big companies still go to all of these schools

After your first job no one cares where you went to school anyway

I went to JMU 10 years ago and I had a lot of fun

Now I make over 6 figures and I would have done just as well as any of the other colleges on this list

Again, we know that. There's nothing wrong with JMU. I'm just saying that if you're from NOVA and truly are a borderline UVA admit, as was my daughter, it can be a let down to have to go there. Her high school probably sent two or three dozen kids there, including some good friends, none of whom performed as well as she did academically.

2017-2018 Freshman Enrollment from Fairfax County

GMU - 1,031
VT - 959
UVA - 680
JMU - 600

More likely to run into kids from your same high school at UVA than JMU.

I've never understood that line of thinking. I have three kids, all in VA state universities. They've all confirmed that it's a myth you'll run into people from high school all the time (or ever). Two of them at larger schools have never run into their former high school classmates.

+1
I went to Tech and sure I ran into people for HS from time to time (and why is that such a bad thing?) But it was overwhelmingly unfamiliar faces.

[Anonymous]

FWIW, the most recommended school (based on “If a friend or family member were considering going to university, based on your experience, how likely or unlikely are you to recommend your college or university to them?” Students gave their colleges a score between 0 and 10 with 0 being “not at all likely” and 10 being “extremely likely”) in the U.S. is JMU.

And VA Tech is #3.

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/best-universities/most-recommended-universities-united-states?fbclid=IwAR3suOP9qJvnaHhkgnB5EGSzNoW9PdtGKAc-WHW5C6G_zGGToflHqfkBi58#survey-answer

[Anonymous]

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Yes, but it's amazing that we have three public schools that cover top-notch flagship, SLAC and tech. And then a whole crop of other schools that are as good as or better than the 1 flagship in another state. I think the one challenging thing is that UVA + W&M in numbers total less than the numbers at another state flagship so it gets very competitive.

We are lucky in VA, but I do think there are better (and still affordable) options for the kids that just miss out on UVA/W&M. I can see why someone would want their kid with maybe a 4.1 and 1460 SAT (who might be rejected from UVA/W&M) to go to an OOS school with a national reputation over JMU or GMU. It wouldn't necessarily have a higher cost than W&M with its $35K price tag.

I'm the poster with the strong student who made clear she'd be very unhappy going below UVA in state. That was exactly her thinking, and fortunately we had the money to pay for her to go anywhere. We weren't willing to pay full freight for a private school (to us, that made no sense for anything lower than top 10-15), so we said we'd pay for a strong OOS flagship. She got into a good one, paid the deposit, and would have been happy to go. But she ended up getting into UVA off the waitlist so it all ended well.

Well, that's the thing, isn't it? Not everyone has the money to pay OOS, and frankly, it's often even harder to get admitted as an OOS. My kid is a very strong student, they technically have the numbers that would put them in range at UVA or WM, but that's not a guarantee with all of the other high achieving students applying. I really hate the attitude that you and you your daughter are fostering that if a bright student doesn't get the golden ticket or possess $$$ they're doomed.

I'm not suggesting that you're "doomed" if you can't get into William & Mary or UVA in state and have to settle for another in state school. There's nothing wrong with JMU, GMU, etc., it's just that the gap between UVA/W&M and the other VA schools in terms of admission is so great -- JMU truly doesn't mean "Just Missed UVA" -- that there are many, many great schools falling somewhere in between. For example, other than Northwestern a borderline UVA admit from in state is a likely admit to every Big 10 school, most of which are great, fun, and have national reputations. If you can afford them, why not? They're certainly less expensive than private schools.

That is absolutely not certain. Many privates are a heckuva lot cheaper than OOS B10 schools.

After merit aid, maybe, but the best privates typically don't offer merit aid. I'm talking about full price for a top ranked private versus full price for OOS Big Ten. Big Ten is always cheaper.

Ugh. I feel like you are being deliberately obtuse.

First off, getting into a top ranked private is probably as difficult to get into as getting into UVA or harder, so it's not worth including them in this example.
Second, even if we go with your assumption that the OOS Big Ten will always be cheaper than the top private... that OOS Big Ten is STILL more expensive than in state VA.
I have found a few exceptions...
University of Missouri: if you have a certain GPA + SAT/ACT score, they will essentially make up the difference in cost for OOS student and will admit the student.
University of Alabama has similar type of offer.
Unless you are talking about the OOS options that bring the level back down to in-state cost, it is frustrating to hear you keep hammering away at OOS option, like it the obvious choice and anyone should automatically do it if they don't get into UVA.
As multiple people on this thread have explained, many solidly middle class people are not going to qualify for need-based aid, and are also not going to be able to afford OOS options.

Um . . . neither Missouri nor Alabama are in the Big Ten -- or as good as virtually any Big Ten school.

I also never said that OOS Big Ten cost the same as UVA in state. I said they're more expensive than in state UVA but less expensive than private but may still be worth the extra money over the other in state VA options because the Big Ten schools are better (generally) than those options.

Not being obtuse, deliberate or otherwise. I understand that some folks don't have the money to go OOS Big Ten and settle instead for JMU etc. That's fine.

DP. You are truly missing the point if you think students "settle" for JMU, etc. Many kids CHOOSE JMU over other, more widely recognized schools. Why? Because it's a great fit for them. JMU offers something for everyone. It's clear you can't imagine someone choosing JMU (or VT, or GMU, etc.) over your "Big Ten" wish list, but that's just ridiculous. My kids wouldn't want anything to do with a Big Ten school. Your first choice (or rather, your CHILD's first choice - hopefully) isn't at all what my kids' would be. Some people go for the right fit, period.

only 29 percent of applicants who were accepted to JMU enrolled. 71 percent went elsewhere. not a first choice for many.

Not a very telling stat.

William & Mary has the same percentages (29% enrolled and 71% went elsewhere)
UVA (38% enrolled and 62% went elsewhere)
GMU (22% enrolled and 78% went elsewhere)

[Anonymous]

PP, was the UVA enrollment figure from Class of 2022? That means they must have taken more than a few students from the waitlist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, the most recommended school (based on “If a friend or family member were considering going to university, based on your experience, how likely or unlikely are you to recommend your college or university to them?” Students gave their colleges a score between 0 and 10 with 0 being “not at all likely” and 10 being “extremely likely”) in the U.S. is JMU.

And VA Tech is #3.

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/best-universities/most-recommended-universities-united-states?fbclid=IwAR3suOP9qJvnaHhkgnB5EGSzNoW9PdtGKAc-WHW5C6G_zGGToflHqfkBi58#survey-answer

Covenant College is #5, so...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, was the UVA enrollment figure from Class of 2022? That means they must have taken more than a few students from the waitlist.

All figures are from the 2017-2018 CDS. The 2018-2019 numbers are not out yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, the most recommended school (based on “If a friend or family member were considering going to university, based on your experience, how likely or unlikely are you to recommend your college or university to them?” Students gave their colleges a score between 0 and 10 with 0 being “not at all likely” and 10 being “extremely likely”) in the U.S. is JMU.

And VA Tech is #3.

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/best-universities/most-recommended-universities-united-states?fbclid=IwAR3suOP9qJvnaHhkgnB5EGSzNoW9PdtGKAc-WHW5C6G_zGGToflHqfkBi58#survey-answer

Covenant College is #5, so...

And Stanford is #2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, the most recommended school (based on “If a friend or family member were considering going to university, based on your experience, how likely or unlikely are you to recommend your college or university to them?” Students gave their colleges a score between 0 and 10 with 0 being “not at all likely” and 10 being “extremely likely”) in the U.S. is JMU.

And VA Tech is #3.

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/best-universities/most-recommended-universities-united-states?fbclid=IwAR3suOP9qJvnaHhkgnB5EGSzNoW9PdtGKAc-WHW5C6G_zGGToflHqfkBi58#survey-answer

Covenant College is #5, so...

And Stanford is #2.

Right but Covenant College. Let me illustrate. List of great men: Lincoln, Ghandi, King, Hitler. Being on this list doesn’t say anything about JMU other than the kids like it. Great. Cool. They also love it at Covenant and Stanford and West Texas A&M and Montevallo and Yale. So what point are you trying to make?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, the most recommended school (based on “If a friend or family member were considering going to university, based on your experience, how likely or unlikely are you to recommend your college or university to them?” Students gave their colleges a score between 0 and 10 with 0 being “not at all likely” and 10 being “extremely likely”) in the U.S. is JMU.

And VA Tech is #3.

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/best-universities/most-recommended-universities-united-states?fbclid=IwAR3suOP9qJvnaHhkgnB5EGSzNoW9PdtGKAc-WHW5C6G_zGGToflHqfkBi58#survey-answer

Covenant College is #5, so...

And Stanford is #2.

Right but Covenant College. Let me illustrate. List of great men: Lincoln, Ghandi, King, Hitler. Being on this list doesn’t say anything about JMU other than the kids like it. Great. Cool. They also love it at Covenant and Stanford and West Texas A&M and Montevallo and Yale. So what point are you trying to make?

Not the poster you are addressing, but I think the point she is trying to make is that JMU (as well as Stanford, and Covenant College) have environments that students seem to enjoy. Obviously Covenant College wouldn't appeal to most students, but if someone is looking for a religious college, knowing that most kids who go there liked it, would be valuable information to have.