APS/SA boundary redrawing - meeting tonight

[Anonymous]

Fine, force the map to include those Henry PUs south of the Pike. Those families will likely just move or find a way to choice or transfer out. I know I will. I’d happily send my kids to Randolph before I consider Drew (I know several families who love it there). I’ve heard nothing redeeming about Drew. Sorry, but flame away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fine, force the map to include those Henry PUs south of the Pike. Those families will likely just move or find a way to choice or transfer out. I know I will. I’d happily send my kids to Randolph before I consider Drew (I know several families who love it there). I’ve heard nothing redeeming about Drew. Sorry, but flame away.

Lol, where should I start? That your racism makes fine distinctions between African Americans (Drew) and recent immigrants (Randolph)?

[Anonymous]

10:06, would you consider creating a new thread specifically about this issue? I’m sure that there are people throughout the county who would be interested in weighing in on this matter in a timely fashion if they knew more about it. There is so much talk about various boundary issues and far flung neighborhoods that most people end up just focusing on their own little corner. If you invite others in the county to look at this specific issue you may garner more support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain how they arrived at their fr/l calculations for the presentation? Because maybe this isn't so bad for Drew after all. If the calculated fr/l numbers are much higher than the current actual numbers, what can Drew expect? For instance, here are the actual 2017 fr/l percentages by school vs. the calculated % in the presentation:

Abingdon: 47.16% vs. 52%
Barcroft: 59.67% vs. 62%
Henry: 31.59% vs. 29%
Hoffman Boston: 49.16% vs. 70%
Oakridge: 25.28% vs. 28%
Randolph: 73.67% vs. 92%

Do if Drew is calculated to be 85%, what is the actual? Seems like it, too, would be significantly lower? Maybe more like 65%?

Hard to say, but I doubt it'll drop more han 10 points if it does. Hoffman's rate is being cut in half because it's sending a lot of poor kids in Nauck back to Drew, for example, not because of the vagaries of resident vs enrolled students. Randolph appears to be a distinct case; the difference there may be because it sends Spanish speaking kids who are disadvantaged to claremont. The other schools on your list barely change. So I'd say Drew probably won't change much.

But I don't think that's the case. The kids whose parents knew enough a out the system got them into Montessori or or Claremont or Hoffman. If those kids are no longer given guarantees to either option school and are sent out of Hoffman to make way for the newly assigned PUs, won't more of them be at Drew (assuming the don't all get into an option program)?

Anyway, I do think they need to take a few of the adjacent Henry PUs to Drew. According to the table, there are a few that have fewer than 10 students eligible for fr/l, so that's not going to adversely harm diversity at Henry. If they can get Drew to 60% it would be manageable, IMHO. Not ideal, but manageable. I also think APS really needs to look at its model of instruction. Seems not to be working very well in schools where students probably need more explicit and direct instruction.

Last comment: this proves my point that option schools should be strategically located to assist with diversity. Look what moving Montessori to the whiter wealthier neighborhood is doing: making it less accessible for poor families who may not opt to move with the program due to concerns about distance, AND leaving behind a neighborhood school with high poverty. I understand that both the elderly Nauck residents and AMAC wanted this, but it was not a good idea for diversity.

The numbers released yesterday for Drew include those students currently attending Hoffman. The only way hoffman's farms rate could have gone down so much is if some chunk of those Nauck kids are disadvantaged. Just because they are disadvantaged doesn't mean they do t know how to avoid Drew. After all, that's likely what some of the disadvantaged kids in the Randolph zone are doing when they transfer to claremont. I know people don't really want to believe that Drew is going to be as poor as carlin springs, but that is the reality.

And as for the implication that the Nauck Civic Assn didn't want white kids from Henry, that's slander. They simply wanted a neighborhood school that had been denied them since bussing began in the early 1970s. They didn't ask for some segregated enclave, but that is what they are getting.

If that's the case, it bodes well for Drew. The parents are plugged in a looking for "better" for their kids. Those are the families who push their kids to do more and overcome the circumstances of their family of origin. That said,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain how they arrived at their fr/l calculations for the presentation? Because maybe this isn't so bad for Drew after all. If the calculated fr/l numbers are much higher than the current actual numbers, what can Drew expect? For instance, here are the actual 2017 fr/l percentages by school vs. the calculated % in the presentation:

Abingdon: 47.16% vs. 52%
Barcroft: 59.67% vs. 62%
Henry: 31.59% vs. 29%
Hoffman Boston: 49.16% vs. 70%
Oakridge: 25.28% vs. 28%
Randolph: 73.67% vs. 92%

Do if Drew is calculated to be 85%, what is the actual? Seems like it, too, would be significantly lower? Maybe more like 65%?

Hard to say, but I doubt it'll drop more han 10 points if it does. Hoffman's rate is being cut in half because it's sending a lot of poor kids in Nauck back to Drew, for example, not because of the vagaries of resident vs enrolled students. Randolph appears to be a distinct case; the difference there may be because it sends Spanish speaking kids who are disadvantaged to claremont. The other schools on your list barely change. So I'd say Drew probably won't change much.

But I don't think that's the case. The kids whose parents knew enough a out the system got them into Montessori or or Claremont or Hoffman. If those kids are no longer given guarantees to either option school and are sent out of Hoffman to make way for the newly assigned PUs, won't more of them be at Drew (assuming the don't all get into an option program)?

Anyway, I do think they need to take a few of the adjacent Henry PUs to Drew. According to the table, there are a few that have fewer than 10 students eligible for fr/l, so that's not going to adversely harm diversity at Henry. If they can get Drew to 60% it would be manageable, IMHO. Not ideal, but manageable. I also think APS really needs to look at its model of instruction. Seems not to be working very well in schools where students probably need more explicit and direct instruction.

Last comment: this proves my point that option schools should be strategically located to assist with diversity. Look what moving Montessori to the whiter wealthier neighborhood is doing: making it less accessible for poor families who may not opt to move with the program due to concerns about distance, AND leaving behind a neighborhood school with high poverty. I understand that both the elderly Nauck residents and AMAC wanted this, but it was not a good idea for diversity.

The numbers released yesterday for Drew include those students currently attending Hoffman. The only way hoffman's farms rate could have gone down so much is if some chunk of those Nauck kids are disadvantaged. Just because they are disadvantaged doesn't mean they do t know how to avoid Drew. After all, that's likely what some of the disadvantaged kids in the Randolph zone are doing when they transfer to claremont. I know people don't really want to believe that Drew is going to be as poor as carlin springs, but that is the reality.

And as for the implication that the Nauck Civic Assn didn't want white kids from Henry, that's slander. They simply wanted a neighborhood school that had been denied them since bussing began in the early 1970s. They didn't ask for some segregated enclave, but that is what they are getting.

If that's the case, it bodes well for Drew. The parents are plugged in a looking for "better" for their kids. Those are the families who push their kids to do more and overcome the circumstances of their family of origin. That said,

Oops, hit submit too soon. That said, it's really irresponsible of APS to send kids who are considered "at-risk" into a very high poverty school, while ignoring the other criteria of proximity and (previous definition of) efficiency, and alignment, and contiguity. On its face it looks like they are ignoring every single objective criteria in order to gerrymander Fleet and keep them "together." Send the adjacent PUs from Fleet to Drew.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:10:06, would you consider creating a new thread specifically about this issue? I’m sure that there are people throughout the county who would be interested in weighing in on this matter in a timely fashion if they knew more about it. There is so much talk about various boundary issues and far flung neighborhoods that most people end up just focusing on their own little corner. If you invite others in the county to look at this specific issue you may garner more support.

Happy to try, thanks for the suggestion. I wish I had more thoughts on the Randolph situation. Trying to work within the parameters APS has set, with walking as first and foremost, it is hard to know what can be done. Drew has more flexibility because it has a smaller walk zone.

[Anonymous]

Please stop blaming Henry for the concentration of poverty in S Arlington. This is exactly what N Arlington wants. Fleet is not going to take N Arlington PUs and the PUs south of the Pike are not all expensive homes. Some are apartments, some are condos, some are duplexes, and many of the single family homes are rentals. Yes there are some MC homes with kids but let’s not pretend it’s all lily white and UMC SFHs with kids. The area is very diverse economically and it has its share of FARMS and homelessness. Henry did not pull the ladder up. It just wants to keep its school.

It’s the entire counties job to balance diversity that is where the blame lies. A handful of MC kids will not balance a 90% plus poverty rate at Drew.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please stop blaming Henry for the concentration of poverty in S Arlington. This is exactly what N Arlington wants. Fleet is not going to take N Arlington PUs and the PUs south of the Pike are not all expensive homes. Some are apartments, some are condos, some are duplexes, and many of the single family homes are rentals. Yes there are some MC homes with kids but let’s not pretend it’s all lily white and UMC SFHs with kids. The area is very diverse economically and it has its share of FARMS and homelessness. Henry did not pull the ladder up. It just wants to keep its school.

It’s the entire counties job to balance diversity that is where the blame lies. A handful of MC kids will not balance a 90% plus poverty rate at Drew.

I tried to point some of this out earlier also, as someone who actually lives in that neighborhood. It’s strange that we are suddenly THE thing that is going to take Drew out of high FARMs. I don’t get it, to be honest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please stop blaming Henry for the concentration of poverty in S Arlington. This is exactly what N Arlington wants. Fleet is not going to take N Arlington PUs and the PUs south of the Pike are not all expensive homes. Some are apartments, some are condos, some are duplexes, and many of the single family homes are rentals. Yes there are some MC homes with kids but let’s not pretend it’s all lily white and UMC SFHs with kids. The area is very diverse economically and it has its share of FARMS and homelessness. Henry did not pull the ladder up. It just wants to keep its school.

It’s the entire counties job to balance diversity that is where the blame lies. A handful of MC kids will not balance a 90% plus poverty rate at Drew.

I tried to point some of this out earlier also, as someone who actually lives in that neighborhood. It’s strange that we are suddenly THE thing that is going to take Drew out of high FARMs. I don’t get it, to be honest.

I live in the neighborhood too. I'm afraid it's a function of geography. You are THE thing to help Drew because it's really the only option. And it's not perfect and doesn't "fix" Drew. I understand the value of a school community, it's just that there are other values in play here and trade-offs have to be made. Equity is equity, for HS or MS or ES.

[Anonymous]

I live in that neighborhood too. It is AV which is filled with toddlers that move away when school starts and a mix of middle class and AH. I haven't looked at the numbers but the poverty rate is probably equal if not more to the MC families with kids that actually attend APS. If it comes down to it we will move, choice out, or go private. Its that simple, and my neighbors will too.

[Anonymous]

Just seeing this. The PUs from Alcova being zoned to Fleet are the densest - they have condos and rowhomes, and make up half the kids in the zone, according to the maps. The same as all of the houses, not counting Gilliam. I guess that takes middle income working families from Barcroft to Fleet.

And this map is crazy - but seemingly preserves some of the old zones for some people. Is this going to change again in the next round? I know some of these schools are up for consideration again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please stop blaming Henry for the concentration of poverty in S Arlington. This is exactly what N Arlington wants. Fleet is not going to take N Arlington PUs and the PUs south of the Pike are not all expensive homes. Some are apartments, some are condos, some are duplexes, and many of the single family homes are rentals. Yes there are some MC homes with kids but let’s not pretend it’s all lily white and UMC SFHs with kids. The area is very diverse economically and it has its share of FARMS and homelessness. Henry did not pull the ladder up. It just wants to keep its school.

It’s the entire counties job to balance diversity that is where the blame lies. A handful of MC kids will not balance a 90% plus poverty rate at Drew.

I tried to point some of this out earlier also, as someone who actually lives in that neighborhood. It’s strange that we are suddenly THE thing that is going to take Drew out of high FARMs. I don’t get it, to be honest.

But here's the thing: if you do t go to Drew some other neighborhood has to. In this case, it's Columbia Forest. You can run the numbers yourself: both the pu at Henry south of the pike and Columbia Forest have about 200 students. The farms rate for those Henry units south of the pike is about 50% so yes, diverse. Also about half white/Asian.

What about Columbia Forest planning units? It's over 80% disadvantaged. The math here is difficult because in many units, aps says there are more disadvantaged students than there are total students. Likewise, APS figures show Columbia Forest has more black and Hispanic students than total students so it's safe to say it's more racially segregated than the Henry PUs as well.

Basically, when Henry said no, we won't go to Drew aps found a poorer, more minority neighborhood to go to Drew instead, one that definitely worsens Drew's farms rate by its inclusion. And does the students in Columbia Forest no favor either- busing them past two closer schools to attend what will likely be the poorest school in the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please stop blaming Henry for the concentration of poverty in S Arlington. This is exactly what N Arlington wants. Fleet is not going to take N Arlington PUs and the PUs south of the Pike are not all expensive homes. Some are apartments, some are condos, some are duplexes, and many of the single family homes are rentals. Yes there are some MC homes with kids but let’s not pretend it’s all lily white and UMC SFHs with kids. The area is very diverse economically and it has its share of FARMS and homelessness. Henry did not pull the ladder up. It just wants to keep its school.

It’s the entire counties job to balance diversity that is where the blame lies. A handful of MC kids will not balance a 90% plus poverty rate at Drew.

I tried to point some of this out earlier also, as someone who actually lives in that neighborhood. It’s strange that we are suddenly THE thing that is going to take Drew out of high FARMs. I don’t get it, to be honest.

The tee shirts didn’t help... we ALL want to keep our community it doesn’t make you special.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please stop blaming Henry for the concentration of poverty in S Arlington. This is exactly what N Arlington wants. Fleet is not going to take N Arlington PUs and the PUs south of the Pike are not all expensive homes. Some are apartments, some are condos, some are duplexes, and many of the single family homes are rentals. Yes there are some MC homes with kids but let’s not pretend it’s all lily white and UMC SFHs with kids. The area is very diverse economically and it has its share of FARMS and homelessness. Henry did not pull the ladder up. It just wants to keep its school.

It’s the entire counties job to balance diversity that is where the blame lies. A handful of MC kids will not balance a 90% plus poverty rate at Drew.

I tried to point some of this out earlier also, as someone who actually lives in that neighborhood. It’s strange that we are suddenly THE thing that is going to take Drew out of high FARMs. I don’t get it, to be honest.

You won't make it worse and it makes more sense than busing kids from the other side of the park and passed two other schools. Nobody thinks those PUs are rich, but they aren't poor either. Look at the data in the table. Here are four adjacent PUs to Drew, currently zoned Henry, which are a no-brainer to move:

46132: 15 fr/l students
46133: between 1-9 fr/l students
46011: between 1-9 fr/l students
46131: between 1-9 fr/l students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in that neighborhood too. It is AV which is filled with toddlers that move away when school starts and a mix of middle class and AH. I haven't looked at the numbers but the poverty rate is probably equal if not more to the MC families with kids that actually attend APS. If it comes down to it we will move, choice out, or go private. Its that simple, and my neighbors will too.

That's your choice, but we're not going to put kids on longer bus rides to gerrymander the school zone you "bought."