Is it good or bad that MCPS placed Magnet schools in the lowest performing schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the major complaint here? That you got magnet programming in your home middle school because there were so many prepared kids for it? How is it possible that you are upset by this? The county has basically told you that, yeah, there are a ton of bright kids in your school who can do the magnet curriculum so we are bringing it to you. They have expanded the magnet program to accommodate large cohorts! And all this wailing is that oooh, it isn’t the same because we wanted to bus our kids to a special school to access this programming?

Seriously, this is how the rest of us read this. Would that we all had this problem.

No, they are not bringing the whole curriculum to the other schools, one maybe two classes, and I doubt the curriculum will be the exact same.

So demand more classes to fill the need. But don’t wring your hands about it being end of days because everyone just got more but you didn’t get the most.

bit of a hyperbole. Those parents whose kids didn't get in aren't jumping the MCPS ship. But why is it fine that other kids who are able get "more" of those classes but the rest who are equally able don't? Unless of course MCPS is trying social engineer education.

But this same statement could have been made by a parent of one of the kids in a school in the eastern part of the county. Bottom line -- there are not enough spots for every kid who is able. So should all the able kids come from the western part of the county? How is that fair? Frankly this is no win for MCPS no matter what they do.

? If a student in the eastern side met the cutoff, why wouldn't that child get into magnet before this change was made? Not all of the kids came from western part of the county. Just more. Why? Because they scored higher.

I wasn't aware there was a cutoff.

There used to be.

so admissions was based solely on a test score?

oh my god, people. read the FAQs on this on the MCPS website. they explain the process.

the new admissions process is based on a number of factors, including scores on the magnet admission test, grades, whether you're considered to have a peer cohort at your school (aka how many kids at your school have similarly above-grade-level qualifications), etc.

the reason people are saying people used to be able to work the system is because the criteria used to hinge heavily on parents/teacher recommendations, so parents could push for their kid to be considered and take the test. there was an audit done of the program, which revealed that a huge percentage of the magnet kids were Asian and white. the county responded to that audit by screening many more kids, in an effort to identify all the kids who were qualified to do magnet-level work.

Yes we are all aware of the new criteria but I was challenging someone who indicated that the kids in the lower SES schools were somehow not as talented because they hadn't made the "cut off" before this change in admissions criteria. I was trying to point out that basing the decision on ONE SCORE is ludicrous.

If the test scores aren't as high as others who didn't get in, including MAP, PARCC, then they wouldn't have met the cutoff.

And if they do score as high, then why doesn't MCPS publish the median test scores of the accepted students? Why hide it?

Because admission is based on more than just test score apparently -- which honestly I think it should be. I would assume you disagree.

Not necessarily, but why hide it? The fact that they no longer publish this information makes it appear like they are hiding something.

fair enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the major complaint here? That you got magnet programming in your home middle school because there were so many prepared kids for it? How is it possible that you are upset by this? The county has basically told you that, yeah, there are a ton of bright kids in your school who can do the magnet curriculum so we are bringing it to you. They have expanded the magnet program to accommodate large cohorts! And all this wailing is that oooh, it isn’t the same because we wanted to bus our kids to a special school to access this programming?

Seriously, this is how the rest of us read this. Would that we all had this problem.

No, they are not bringing the whole curriculum to the other schools, one maybe two classes, and I doubt the curriculum will be the exact same.

So demand more classes to fill the need. But don’t wring your hands about it being end of days because everyone just got more but you didn’t get the most.

bit of a hyperbole. Those parents whose kids didn't get in aren't jumping the MCPS ship. But why is it fine that other kids who are able get "more" of those classes but the rest who are equally able don't? Unless of course MCPS is trying social engineer education.

But this same statement could have been made by a parent of one of the kids in a school in the eastern part of the county. Bottom line -- there are not enough spots for every kid who is able. So should all the able kids come from the western part of the county? How is that fair? Frankly this is no win for MCPS no matter what they do.

? If a student in the eastern side met the cutoff, why wouldn't that child get into magnet before this change was made? Not all of the kids came from western part of the county. Just more. Why? Because they scored higher.

I wasn't aware there was a cutoff.

There used to be.

so admissions was based solely on a test score?

oh my god, people. read the FAQs on this on the MCPS website. they explain the process.

the new admissions process is based on a number of factors, including scores on the magnet admission test, grades, whether you're considered to have a peer cohort at your school (aka how many kids at your school have similarly above-grade-level qualifications), etc.

the reason people are saying people used to be able to work the system is because the criteria used to hinge heavily on parents/teacher recommendations, so parents could push for their kid to be considered and take the test. there was an audit done of the program, which revealed that a huge percentage of the magnet kids were Asian and white. the county responded to that audit by screening many more kids, in an effort to identify all the kids who were qualified to do magnet-level work.

This is false. ANYONE could take the test, and it wasn't heavily reliant on teacher/parent rec.

Fine so we agree that admission was mainly based on one test. I think that is flawed methodology and I am glad they are changing it.

so, what should a rigorous academic program base criteria on?

[Anonymous]

I keep hearing that kids from certain schools DESERVE a magnet curriculum because they are ahead of the standard curriculum, but PP admitted those kids are ahead of the curriculum because they attend summer classes to put them there.

Yes, if you can pay for a summer program to teach your child ahead of the curriculum, that doesn't make them gifted. It makes them lucky. Count your blessings.

[Anonymous]

New selection process is part of the same playbook as APs: Pushing URMs to take them.
So now instead of self-selecting to apply to CES for 4th, 6th grade, 1000s more are taking the test.
And instead of a selection process of Transcript grades, CoGAT test, and teacher rec it is something fuzzier.
Now it is CoGAT test and Peer Cohort and they will not be posting test scores of admits. Thus if your kid got high 90s, you will never know what the median or range of test scores of the admitted was...
Instead of stack ranking the kids and their qualitative write-ups, it will be whatever 'cutoff' they choose to get the class diversity they so desire.

Things that make you go Hmmmmm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[b]I keep hearing that kids from certain schools DESERVE a magnet curriculum because they are ahead of the standard curriculum, but PP admitted those kids are ahead of the curriculum because they attend summer classes to put them there. [/b]

Yes, if you can pay for a summer program to teach your child ahead of the curriculum, that doesn't make them gifted. It makes them lucky. Count your blessings.

never heard of this. what "certain schools" are you talking about?
our whole neighborhood is at summer/sports camps, daycare, grandparents' homes, or on vacation all summer. tho they do show up for most wed and saturday community pool swim meets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the major complaint here? That you got magnet programming in your home middle school because there were so many prepared kids for it? How is it possible that you are upset by this? The county has basically told you that, yeah, there are a ton of bright kids in your school who can do the magnet curriculum so we are bringing it to you. They have expanded the magnet program to accommodate large cohorts! And all this wailing is that oooh, it isn’t the same because we wanted to bus our kids to a special school to access this programming?

Seriously, this is how the rest of us read this. Would that we all had this problem.

No, they are not bringing the whole curriculum to the other schools, one maybe two classes, and I doubt the curriculum will be the exact same.

So demand more classes to fill the need. But don’t wring your hands about it being end of days because everyone just got more but you didn’t get the most.

bit of a hyperbole. Those parents whose kids didn't get in aren't jumping the MCPS ship. But why is it fine that other kids who are able get "more" of those classes but the rest who are equally able don't? Unless of course MCPS is trying social engineer education.

But this same statement could have been made by a parent of one of the kids in a school in the eastern part of the county. Bottom line -- there are not enough spots for every kid who is able. So should all the able kids come from the western part of the county? How is that fair? Frankly this is no win for MCPS no matter what they do.

? If a student in the eastern side met the cutoff, why wouldn't that child get into magnet before this change was made? Not all of the kids came from western part of the county. Just more. Why? Because they scored higher.

I wasn't aware there was a cutoff.

There used to be.

so every kid who made the cutoff got in?? I find that hard to believe with the limited number of seats.

what's hard to believe? You have a pool of applicants with x number of seats in the center. For that center, the cutoff would be at the level of however many seats there were. The median test scores of Cold Spring is a lot higher than at Clear Spring. We've seen this in prior years on this forum. People would post the median test scores of each center. You could clearly see where your child was in the pecking order based on the median test scores in the three categories (this is for HGC).

so admissions was based on one test score? that's it?

More or less.., but the new system seems more equitable and comprehensive. It relies on multiple tests for example. There are numerous threads already about this that go into excruciating detail.

You mean more MCPS discretion to get in. Add more to the mix, pick & choose what test scores, apply things inconsistently across students, then have a big wildcard at the end (oh, you have 4 other smart kids in your classroom), and VIOLA. MCPS does it again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
This is false. ANYONE could take the test, and it wasn't heavily reliant on teacher/parent rec.

Only kids whose parents asked for their children to be tested were considered for the program in previous years but now schools identify candidates. Something like five times as many kids were tested than in prior years. This seems far more inclusive and does a better job finding the best candidates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is false. ANYONE could take the test, and it wasn't heavily reliant on teacher/parent rec.

Only kids whose parents asked for their children to be tested were considered for the program in previous years but now schools identify candidates. Something like five times as many kids were tested than in prior years. This seems far more inclusive and does a better job finding the best candidates.

I have no problem with that, but I was correcting a PP who stated that parents were gaming the system by pushing their kids to be allowed to take the tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is false. ANYONE could take the test, and it wasn't heavily reliant on teacher/parent rec.

Only kids whose parents asked for their children to be tested were considered for the program in previous years but now schools identify candidates. Something like five times as many kids were tested than in prior years. This seems far more inclusive and does a better job finding the best candidates.

I totally agree. As long as MCPS provides adequate accelerated classes for the cohorts of kids who are left at their home schools, I think this is actually a really good move towards equity in access to magnet programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[b]I keep hearing that kids from certain schools DESERVE a magnet curriculum because they are ahead of the standard curriculum, but PP admitted those kids are ahead of the curriculum because they attend summer classes to put them there. [/b]

Yes, if you can pay for a summer program to teach your child ahead of the curriculum, that doesn't make them gifted. It makes them lucky. Count your blessings.

never heard of this. what "certain schools" are you talking about?
our whole neighborhood is at summer/sports camps, daycare, grandparents' homes, or on vacation all summer. tho they do show up for most wed and saturday community pool swim meets.

Check out 12:14. She writes:

"He preps kids by convincing their parents to send him their every summer for many summers in a row. While there, he provides them instruction that they are not getting in public school. These kids are being taught math concepts far more than 1 grade level ahead. They are explicitly being taught reading, writing, vocabulary building strategies, again, far above grade level."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is false. ANYONE could take the test, and it wasn't heavily reliant on teacher/parent rec.

Only kids whose parents asked for their children to be tested were considered for the program in previous years but now schools identify candidates. Something like five times as many kids were tested than in prior years. This seems far more inclusive and does a better job finding the best candidates.

I totally agree. As long as MCPS provides adequate accelerated classes for the cohorts of kids who are left at their home schools, I think this is actually a really good move towards equity in access to magnet programs.

And that is the $64,000 question. Right now, they are only going to offer one or two of such classes, and I doubt the curriculum of those classes will be the exact same as in the magnet.

[Anonymous]

Although these changes sound like an improvement, the funny thing that occurs to me is my kid is zoned for TPMS. So whether they get into a magnet someday or not there is no special program at their home school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[b]I keep hearing that kids from certain schools DESERVE a magnet curriculum because they are ahead of the standard curriculum, but PP admitted those kids are ahead of the curriculum because they attend summer classes to put them there. [/b]

Yes, if you can pay for a summer program to teach your child ahead of the curriculum, that doesn't make them gifted. It makes them lucky. Count your blessings.

never heard of this. what "certain schools" are you talking about?
our whole neighborhood is at summer/sports camps, daycare, grandparents' homes, or on vacation all summer. tho they do show up for most wed and saturday community pool swim meets.

Check out 12:14. She writes:

"He preps kids by convincing their parents to send him their every summer for many summers in a row. While there, he provides them instruction that they are not getting in public school. These kids are being taught math concepts far more than 1 grade level ahead. They are explicitly being taught reading, writing, vocabulary building strategies, again, far above grade level."

This is super great for those kids. But it doesn't make them gifted. It makes them well-prepared.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is false. ANYONE could take the test, and it wasn't heavily reliant on teacher/parent rec.

Only kids whose parents asked for their children to be tested were considered for the program in previous years but now schools identify candidates. Something like five times as many kids were tested than in prior years. This seems far more inclusive and does a better job finding the best candidates.

right.. so *anyone*. The student could be getting bad grades, and if the parent wanted their kid to take the test, then that student could. Again, I have no problem with widening the net. But the admit criteria should be transparent, ie, they should publish the test scores like they used to do. Why did they stop doing that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing that kids from certain schools DESERVE a magnet curriculum because they are ahead of the standard curriculum, but PP admitted those kids are ahead of the curriculum because they attend summer classes to put them there.

Yes, if you can pay for a summer program to teach your child ahead of the curriculum, that doesn't make them gifted. It makes them lucky. Count your blessings.

Ummm... see, I think this is kind of the flip side of thinking that leads to similar accusations that URM’s aren’t actually as qualified for these programs. As far as I can tell, MCPS is not looking for kids who have completed accelerated curriculum so much as kids who thrive doing so. Whether a child is scoring high on the Cogat and showing potential for high performance could be the result of nature or nurture, I guess, but in the end, the school is faced with educating a child capable of creative and rigorous thinking who really does deserve to go to school and learn something new. They don’t deserve an enriched curriculum because they are lucky or have earned it - they deserve it because it is the right match for them.