Is it good or bad that MCPS placed Magnet schools in the lowest performing schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:
Why should a taxpayer funded public school provide certain types of education at the expense of one child over another? I don't think anyone on the west side thinks no student from the poorer side should not have access to magnet.

really. have you been on dcum long?

Show me on this forum where someone stated that kids on the eastern side who score as high don't deserve to be in the magnet?

Except its not all about test score -- therein lies the problem with your statement.

Many people on this board think the URM kids should not be there -- they have complained that the curriculum will be "watered down" now that those kids have been accepted.

Test scores are one part, and if they scored well, why isn't MCPS publishing it? What are they hiding?

People think kids who aren't as high achieving should not be there, and they shouldn't since this is a merit based academic public program. It just so happens that URM tend to perform lower academically. That's not racist. Even MCPS agrees with that and that's why they are trying to close the achievement gap.

So the program should be reserved for white and asian high achievers who test well -- got it. I'm out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Why should a taxpayer funded public school provide certain types of education at the expense of one child over another? I don't think anyone on the west side thinks no student from the poorer side should not have access to magnet.

really. have you been on dcum long?

Show me on this forum where someone stated that kids on the eastern side who score as high don't deserve to be in the magnet?

Except its not all about test score -- therein lies the problem with your statement.

Many people on this board think the URM kids should not be there -- they have complained that the curriculum will be "watered down" now that those kids have been accepted.

Test scores are one part, and if they scored well, why isn't MCPS publishing it? What are they hiding?

People think kids who aren't as high achieving should not be there, and they shouldn't since this is a merit based academic public program. It just so happens that URM tend to perform lower academically. That's not racist. Even MCPS agrees with that and that's why they are trying to close the achievement gap.

Clearly, they're not publishing this data because some blithering moron would go on DCUM and whine about how their kid's spot was taken by a URM with a 0.0001 lower test score despite the decision being more nuanced.

[Anonymous]

Let me get this straight, MCPS isn't allowing top scoring students to the magnets' schools because there are too many top scoring students in their home schools? So then what? Those top scoring students just spin their wheels in C2.0 and never get really challenged like they could have in a HGC, CES or magnet program?

And some other parents are happy about this because now their lesser top scoring kid can attend?

But that doesn't solve the problem of what the school district is doing with or for the original top set of kids they now are shutting out of the top programs.

And to top it off they are no longer publishing the median or distribution of admit scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let me get this straight, MCPS isn't allowing top scoring students to the magnets' schools because there are too many top scoring students in their home schools? So then what? Those top scoring students just spin their wheels in C2.0 and never get really challenged like they could have in a HGC, CES or magnet program?

And some other parents are happy about this because now their lesser top scoring kid can attend?

But that doesn't solve the problem of what the school district is doing with or for the original top set of kids they now are shutting out of the top programs.

And to top it off they are no longer publishing the median or distribution of admit scores?

NO. MCPS is allowing the statistical outliers from all of the schools to attend the magnets. The bar for statistical outlier is higher when there is a cohort of high-performing and well-prepared peers. This does not mean that no kids from Cold Spring or North Chevy Chase are attending TMPS and Eastern next year. They are.

It does mean that MCPS recognizes that peer groups matter, and a cohort of high performers with a new dedicated curriculum will do just fine.

Basically, there are 125 seats on the life raft. Some kids a nice schooner that will get them to shore safely no matter what. Some kids are on a sinking ship. MCPS is prioritizing the latter group in the absence of 500 seats on the life raft.

[Anonymous]

Clearly, they're not publishing this data because some blithering moron would go on DCUM and whine about how their kid's spot was taken by a URM with a 0.0001 lower test score despite the decision being more nuanced.

BINGO. The same folks who have been saying for years that East County schools are hellholes are now going to dither over .0002 percentage points between their well-prepared and well-supported kid and a kid who didn't have their child's advantages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let me get this straight, MCPS isn't allowing top scoring students to the magnets' schools because there are too many top scoring students in their home schools? So then what? Those top scoring students just spin their wheels in C2.0 and never get really challenged like they could have in a HGC, CES or magnet program?

And some other parents are happy about this because now their lesser top scoring kid can attend?

But that doesn't solve the problem of what the school district is doing with or for the original top set of kids they now are shutting out of the top programs.

And to top it off they are no longer publishing the median or distribution of admit scores?

Actually, that's not it at all. The new system does a better job identifying more qualified students. It also made it harder for parents to game the system by 1) identifying 5X the number of candidates than in prior years 2) looking at a broader range of criteria than one test. This didn't go over well with the people who had been gaming the system.

[Anonymous]

AS students are succeeding because of their home life and their parents. That kind of parenting will never happen in AA and HI households. They have too many social, mental and cultural issues that bring them down, putting energy towards educating their kids is low down on their priorities. They are struggling as family units on very basic issues.

MCPS can give them everything except change their homelife and switch out their parents. They will always be at a disadvantage. It is the effect of historic slavery and breakdown of family units for generations. We cannot understand this level of dysfunction. The difference between AA blacks and African blacks who have immigrated here is of day and night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Why should a taxpayer funded public school provide certain types of education at the expense of one child over another? I don't think anyone on the west side thinks no student from the poorer side should not have access to magnet.

really. have you been on dcum long?

Show me on this forum where someone stated that kids on the eastern side who score as high don't deserve to be in the magnet?

Except its not all about test score -- therein lies the problem with your statement.

Many people on this board think the URM kids should not be there -- they have complained that the curriculum will be "watered down" now that those kids have been accepted.

Test scores are one part, and if they scored well, why isn't MCPS publishing it? What are they hiding?

People think kids who aren't as high achieving should not be there, and they shouldn't since this is a merit based academic public program. It just so happens that URM tend to perform lower academically. That's not racist. Even MCPS agrees with that and that's why they are trying to close the achievement gap.

Clearly, they're not publishing this data because some blithering moron would go on DCUM and whine about how their kid's spot was taken by a URM with a 0.0001 lower test score despite the decision being more nuanced.

Or maybe it would be obvious that they didn't score well at all? Or maybe not. If they published the scores like they used to do then there wouldn't be any question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me get this straight, MCPS isn't allowing top scoring students to the magnets' schools because there are too many top scoring students in their home schools? So then what? Those top scoring students just spin their wheels in C2.0 and never get really challenged like they could have in a HGC, CES or magnet program?

And some other parents are happy about this because now their lesser top scoring kid can attend?

But that doesn't solve the problem of what the school district is doing with or for the original top set of kids they now are shutting out of the top programs.

And to top it off they are no longer publishing the median or distribution of admit scores?

Actually, that's not it at all. The new system does a better job identifying more qualified students. It also made it harder for parents to game the system by 1) identifying 5X the number of candidates than in prior years 2) looking at a broader range of criteria than one test. This didn't go over well with the people who had been gaming the system.

So if test scores aren't a good indicator of being high achieving then why does MCPS use PARCC and MAP scores as the basis for the opposite - identifying low achieving students, and then use this as the basis for closing the achievement gap? Why not look at teacher recommendations, or whatever else criteria they are using to indicate whether a student is "high achieving"?

If it's ok for them to use tests to help them identify low achieving students to give them extra help, why is it not ok for them to use tests to identify very high achieving kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me get this straight, MCPS isn't allowing top scoring students to the magnets' schools because there are too many top scoring students in their home schools? So then what? Those top scoring students just spin their wheels in C2.0 and never get really challenged like they could have in a HGC, CES or magnet program?

And some other parents are happy about this because now their lesser top scoring kid can attend?

But that doesn't solve the problem of what the school district is doing with or for the original top set of kids they now are shutting out of the top programs.

And to top it off they are no longer publishing the median or distribution of admit scores?

Actually, that's not it at all. The new system does a better job identifying more qualified students. It also made it harder for parents to game the system by 1) identifying 5X the number of candidates than in prior years 2) looking at a broader range of criteria than one test. This didn't go over well with the people who had been gaming the system.

So if test scores aren't a good indicator of being high achieving then why does MCPS use PARCC and MAP scores as the basis for the opposite - identifying low achieving students, and then use this as the basis for closing the achievement gap? Why not look at teacher recommendations, or whatever else criteria they are using to indicate whether a student is "high achieving"?

If it's ok for them to use tests to help them identify low achieving students to give them extra help, why is it not ok for them to use tests to identify very high achieving kids?

This has already been expalined 1000 times, and if your reading comprehension is any indication of your child's, it's no wonder they're not in a magnet program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is false. ANYONE could take the test, and it wasn't heavily reliant on teacher/parent rec.

Only kids whose parents asked for their children to be tested were considered for the program in previous years but now schools identify candidates. Something like five times as many kids were tested than in prior years. This seems far more inclusive and does a better job finding the best candidates.

I totally agree. As long as MCPS provides adequate accelerated classes for the cohorts of kids who are left at their home schools, I think this is actually a really good move towards equity in access to magnet programs.

And that is the $64,000 question. Right now, they are only going to offer one or two of such classes, and I doubt the curriculum of those classes will be the exact same as in the magnet.

Massive eye role

If you are in the wealthier part of the county you are already accelerated. Even the kids in the "regular classes" are lightyears ahead of the average MCPS student.
So instead of having a magnet with kids who already were going to be fine and do well in their base schools. We have switched to a system that identifies smart kids from poorer (and yes more diverse) section of MCPS who could really benefit form having more advanced programming vs the slower normal programming at their base school.

This isn't about whether student A is ahead of student B. This is about equal access to accelerated curriculum for students who are equally, and in some cases, more than able than others, and simply missed out because they are surrounded by more of such students.

you are in the wrong county then
this is about giving poorer and yes generally black/Hispanic minority students exposure to more advanced curriculum
the old model gave more spots to richer and generally white and Asian students who yes had higher test scores but come from high functioning schools that are capable of providing advanced challenging curriculum locally

We're going around in circles. The pilot program to some of the MS will only offer at most one or two more "advanced" classes, and not the exact same magnet curriculum that the MS magnets will have. If that were the case, then of course, it would basically be a magnet without calling it a magnet. But that's not what's happening.

My DC takes "Honors" World History and English, and the Principal and teachers told the incoming parents of HGC students that these kids would be challenged. There is nothing "honors" about it. So, I have very little confidence about the one or two classes with more advanced curriculum.

And MCPS is a public school that should be providing the same access to all high achieving students. You can say it didn't use to, but it's not doing that today either.

Unfortunately this is very hard to achieve. Public school "should" be all things to all different types of students. Alas it is not. We have a child with an IEP and I can tell you we are fighting for access as well. If you want a perfectly tailored education -- home school.

I see, so demanding that MCPS treat students equally is too much. You can fight for your child's IEP, but other parents should shut up about fighting for their high achieving kid to get access to accelerated curriculum? I'm not looking for a perfect tailored education for my child alone. I want MCPS to treat my child and other children equally in terms of access to accelerated curriculum. Is that really asking for too much from a public school, equal access?

You better watch out for what you ask for. Equal access does not guarantee equal results. I have a feeling that many parents asking for the same Magnet curriculum would be the same ones complaining that the class is moving too fast and that it's not fair to leave kids behind. As a parent of a Magnet kid, I can tell you that if your kid falls behind it's a true struggle to recover. These classes and curriculum don't slow down for the struggling or disorganized kid. Of course, I'm not saying that there should be accelerated classes for those kids who need it. Just don't wish for the Magnet curriculum unless you are prepared as a parent to do what it takes to support your child at home academically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You better watch out for what you ask for. Equal access does not guarantee equal results. I have a feeling that many parents asking for the same Magnet curriculum would be the same ones complaining that the class is moving too fast and that it's not fair to leave kids behind. As a parent of a Magnet kid, I can tell you that if your kid falls behind it's a true struggle to recover. These classes and curriculum don't slow down for the struggling or disorganized kid. Of course, I'm not saying that there should be accelerated classes for those kids who need it. Just don't wish for the Magnet curriculum unless you are prepared as a parent to do what it takes to support your child at home academically.

+1
My child is currently in classes where some other magnet students can't keep the pace and, oh woe!, got a B on a test. There have been such vigorous complaints from a small handful of parents that they won't be offering the tailored magnet curriculum anymore, but will revert to the county curriculum "with extensions".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You better watch out for what you ask for. Equal access does not guarantee equal results. I have a feeling that many parents asking for the same Magnet curriculum would be the same ones complaining that the class is moving too fast and that it's not fair to leave kids behind. As a parent of a Magnet kid, I can tell you that if your kid falls behind it's a true struggle to recover. These classes and curriculum don't slow down for the struggling or disorganized kid. Of course, I'm not saying that there should be accelerated classes for those kids who need it. Just don't wish for the Magnet curriculum unless you are prepared as a parent to do what it takes to support your child at home academically.

+1
My child is currently in classes where some other magnet students can't keep the pace and, oh woe!, got a B on a test. There have been such vigorous complaints from a small handful of parents that they won't be offering the tailored magnet curriculum anymore, but will revert to the county curriculum "with extensions".

I can't speak for others, but for myself, nope, I wouldn't complain. My DC went to HGC, and I would've pulled DC out if DC was really struggling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me get this straight, MCPS isn't allowing top scoring students to the magnets' schools because there are too many top scoring students in their home schools? So then what? Those top scoring students just spin their wheels in C2.0 and never get really challenged like they could have in a HGC, CES or magnet program?

And some other parents are happy about this because now their lesser top scoring kid can attend?

But that doesn't solve the problem of what the school district is doing with or for the original top set of kids they now are shutting out of the top programs.

And to top it off they are no longer publishing the median or distribution of admit scores?

Actually, that's not it at all. The new system does a better job identifying more qualified students. It also made it harder for parents to game the system by 1) identifying 5X the number of candidates than in prior years 2) looking at a broader range of criteria than one test. This didn't go over well with the people who had been gaming the system.

So if test scores aren't a good indicator of being high achieving then why does MCPS use PARCC and MAP scores as the basis for the opposite - identifying low achieving students, and then use this as the basis for closing the achievement gap? Why not look at teacher recommendations, or whatever else criteria they are using to indicate whether a student is "high achieving"?

If it's ok for them to use tests to help them identify low achieving students to give them extra help, why is it not ok for them to use tests to identify very high achieving kids?

This has already been expalined 1000 times, and if your reading comprehension is any indication of your child's, it's no wonder they're not in a magnet program.

Well, my DC didn't bother applying to MS magnet because it was too far, but I have a younger one coming up, and this isn't about just my child. It's about how MCPS treats all the high achieving students.

So, ok, if I'm that stupid, explain to me why it's ok for MCPS to use test scores to gauge the achievement gap, but it's not ok for them to use the same test scores to gauge who is really high achieving? If it's good for one side, why not the other?

You say one test doesn't reflect high achieving. Then one test shouldn't reflect low achieving either, right? That actually seems logical to my simple mind, but ok, I'm too simple to grasp this convoluted logic you are using, so then explain it to me like I'm a non magnet 6th grader.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me get this straight, MCPS isn't allowing top scoring students to the magnets' schools because there are too many top scoring students in their home schools? So then what? Those top scoring students just spin their wheels in C2.0 and never get really challenged like they could have in a HGC, CES or magnet program?

And some other parents are happy about this because now their lesser top scoring kid can attend?

But that doesn't solve the problem of what the school district is doing with or for the original top set of kids they now are shutting out of the top programs.

And to top it off they are no longer publishing the median or distribution of admit scores?

Actually, that's not it at all. The new system does a better job identifying more qualified students. It also made it harder for parents to game the system by 1) identifying 5X the number of candidates than in prior years 2) looking at a broader range of criteria than one test. This didn't go over well with the people who had been gaming the system.

So if test scores aren't a good indicator of being high achieving then why does MCPS use PARCC and MAP scores as the basis for the opposite - identifying low achieving students, and then use this as the basis for closing the achievement gap? Why not look at teacher recommendations, or whatever else criteria they are using to indicate whether a student is "high achieving"?

If it's ok for them to use tests to help them identify low achieving students to give them extra help, why is it not ok for them to use tests to identify very high achieving kids?

This has already been expalined 1000 times, and if your reading comprehension is any indication of your child's, it's no wonder they're not in a magnet program.

Well, my DC didn't bother applying to MS magnet because it was too far, but I have a younger one coming up, and this isn't about just my child. It's about how MCPS treats all the high achieving students.

So, ok, if I'm that stupid, explain to me why it's ok for MCPS to use test scores to gauge the achievement gap, but it's not ok for them to use the same test scores to gauge who is really high achieving? If it's good for one side, why not the other?

You say one test doesn't reflect high achieving. Then one test shouldn't reflect low achieving either, right? That actually seems logical to my simple mind, but ok, I'm too simple to grasp this convoluted logic you are using, so then explain it to me like I'm a non magnet 6th grader.

The exact criteria were laid out a few pages back and were taken directly from the MCPS website. You need to do your own legwork because I don't care enough to reread through 5+ pages to get you the exact info, but It isn't what you're saying and is pretty reasonable stuff.