Board of Veterans Appeals (Attorney Advisor)

[Anonymous]

Final offer came in today via email after 4 weeks (16 business days).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Final offer came in today via email after 4 weeks (16 business days).

Good luck! You will need it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Final offer came in today via email after 4 weeks (16 business days).

Good luck! You will need it.

nahhhh. most people survive the first six months just fine.

The open hostility and terrible working environment isnt really in full effect until that time.

The fact that so many people are still applying and accepting jobs at the Board when all of this information is readily available tells me how desperate people are for work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what got me to not apply - 90+ government attorneys publicly signed their name to a "loss of confidence" letter sent to the VA Secretary. https://www.afge.org/contentassets/a91c998d3be44362a75c5c67c60852f7/loss-of-confidence-statement.pdf

Only idiots would sign such a letter so that tells you what you need to know

Why would you say that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Final offer came in today via email after 4 weeks (16 business days).

Good luck! You will need it.

nahhhh. most people survive the first six months just fine.

The open hostility and terrible working environment isnt really in full effect until that time.

The fact that so many people are still applying and accepting jobs at the Board when all of this information is readily available tells me how desperate people are for work.

Maybe change can come from within. Lawyers unite!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Final offer came in today via email after 4 weeks (16 business days).

Good luck! You will need it.

nahhhh. most people survive the first six months just fine.

The open hostility and terrible working environment isnt really in full effect until that time.

The fact that so many people are still applying and accepting jobs at the Board when all of this information is readily available tells me how desperate people are for work.

You’re right, the first six months are generally fine because attorneys aren’t on production. However, things can and do go downhill quickly, as management prefers to get rid of attorneys at the 10 month mark. That four month period between production and termination can be nightmare because management generally treats attorneys they don’t like terribly to get them to quit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Final offer came in today via email after 4 weeks (16 business days).

Good luck! You will need it.

nahhhh. most people survive the first six months just fine.

The open hostility and terrible working environment isnt really in full effect until that time.

The fact that so many people are still applying and accepting jobs at the Board when all of this information is readily available tells me how desperate people are for work.

Maybe change can come from within. Lawyers unite!

Lol... you obviously haven’t worked in a place like the Board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Final offer came in today via email after 4 weeks (16 business days).

Good luck! You will need it.

nahhhh. most people survive the first six months just fine.

The open hostility and terrible working environment isnt really in full effect until that time.

The fact that so many people are still applying and accepting jobs at the Board when all of this information is readily available tells me how desperate people are for work.

You’re right, the first six months are generally fine because attorneys aren’t on production. However, things can and do go downhill quickly, as management prefers to get rid of attorneys at the 10 month mark. That four month period between production and termination can be nightmare because management generally treats attorneys they don’t like terribly to get them to quit.

Maybe you are just a shitty employee and would fail anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Final offer came in today via email after 4 weeks (16 business days).

Good luck! You will need it.

nahhhh. most people survive the first six months just fine.

The open hostility and terrible working environment isnt really in full effect until that time.

The fact that so many people are still applying and accepting jobs at the Board when all of this information is readily available tells me how desperate people are for work.

You’re right, the first six months are generally fine because attorneys aren’t on production. However, things can and do go downhill quickly, as management prefers to get rid of attorneys at the 10 month mark. That four month period between production and termination can be nightmare because management generally treats attorneys they don’t like terribly to get them to quit.

Maybe you are just a shitty employee and would fail anywhere.

Hmm... well, you may have a point if it’s just me complaining. But, when 400 attorneys have expressed the same concerns, there’s a good chance that the probably isn’t me.

Care to take a look at what 400 attorneys have said?

https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track/?uri=urn%3Aaaid%3Ascds%3AUS%3A4dc55b1b-80ed-4b2c-9e0a-155be961d998&pageNum=1#pageNum=1

[Anonymous]

RE: Maybe you are just a shitty employee and would fail anywhere.

Yes, that's generally how management at the Board views employees who voice concerns. Take for example, the case of Doug Massey, the president of the union - from ProPublica:

Doug Massey, a union official who works at the Board of Veterans Appeals, complained about a supervisor to Peter O’Rourke, the head of the accountability office. An investigation was launched, Massey said — but it focused on Massey, not the supervisor, and was conducted by an aide to the supervisor Massey had complained about.

https://titan.propublica.org/article/veterans-affairs-the-trump-administration-campaign-to-weaken-civil-service-ramps-up

This is a common occurrence at the Board. Those who complain about harassment and discrimination are either: set up to fail and fired for poor performance; and/or treated so badly that they resign.

Fortunately for Doug, he's a union official so BVA management can't use "poor performance" as pretext - Doug does not draft decisions. My colleagues who have complained about harassment/discrimination have not been as lucky. They were all canned (either forced to resign or fired).

Check out Glassdoor and Indeed for more reviews about the Board - they aren't pretty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Final offer came in today via email after 4 weeks (16 business days).

Good luck! You will need it.

nahhhh. most people survive the first six months just fine.

The open hostility and terrible working environment isnt really in full effect until that time.

The fact that so many people are still applying and accepting jobs at the Board when all of this information is readily available tells me how desperate people are for work.

Maybe change can come from within. Lawyers unite!

What everyone has said on here is true. Its a truly awful place. no amount of uniting is going to change that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Final offer came in today via email after 4 weeks (16 business days).

Good luck! You will need it.

nahhhh. most people survive the first six months just fine.

The open hostility and terrible working environment isnt really in full effect until that time.

The fact that so many people are still applying and accepting jobs at the Board when all of this information is readily available tells me how desperate people are for work.

Maybe change can come from within. Lawyers unite!

What everyone has said on here is true. Its a truly awful place. no amount of uniting is going to change that.

I agree. The toxic work environment and high production rate adversely affects not only the employees, but also veterans. As seen in a study conducted by Stanford University, approximately 75 percent of BVA decisions that are appealed to the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims (CAVC) contain serious errors necessitating remand. This means that for every 100 cases appealed to CAVC, 75 of them contain reversible errors. See https://siepr.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/publications/19-005.pdf

I can't say that I'm surprised. Board attorneys are required to draft one decision every 8-10 hours. In that 8-10 hour period, each Board attorney has to read several hundred, even thousands of pages, and draft a 10-20 page decision. Most people can't do that. But, Board attorneys have to do that each and every day or face termination. So what do most Board attorneys do? Easy answer, most Board attorneys don't read through the entire case file. In other words, if a veteran submits 2,000 pages of evidence, the average attorney at the Board reads at most 100-200 pages of the case file. Unfortunately, this means that BVA decisions contain major errors both in fact and law that CAVC must address and remand. The system ultimately fails veterans because their cases are delayed by the endless cycle of remands.

[Anonymous]

Here's the press release from Stanford University:

https://news.stanford.edu/2019/03/06/new-research-finds-flaws-veterans-claims-system/

[Anonymous]

Contrast this study with the testimony of the Chairman of the Board of Veterans' Appeals, who told Congress that Board attorneys read tens of thousands of pages of evidence and draft a decision within 8-10 hours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6148&v=AACgoVzBKKg&feature=emb_logo

From: 1:44:00 - 1:45:10

Something seems off. If Board attorneys thoroughly review every page of evidence, why is CAVC remanding 75 percent of BVA decisions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard there is remote work at the Board. That sounds like a great perk. It might be worth the abuse for the flexibility.

I can speak from personal experience that my colleagues and I worry about our jobs on a weekly basis due to the high production quotas and mistreatment/abuse. Sure, you get the flexibility to telework full time, but there's a lot of stress that goes along with the flexibility. There's also no guarantee that you will be able to telework, as that decision is dependent on approval from both your supervisor and judge. In fact, some of my colleagues who joined the Board specifically for the flexibility of remote work, ended up unemployed within 10 months of starting their employment at VA because they could not meet the high production quotas and/or sustained mental breakdowns due to the mistreatment.

Also, don’t forget the extreme isolation that comes from teleworking 50 plus hours a week. The only people you can talk to are coworkers you met during your first six months (if they keep their jobs). Most of the people I started with have left by now so it’s an extremely isolating existence. That helps management with their constant gaslighting and abuse since you don’t know what’s going on with most of your colleagues.

+1, so true.