Board of Veterans Appeals (Attorney Advisor)

[Anonymous]

I’ve heard that OGC at is not a good place to work, particularly Group VII, which defends the Board’s decisions before the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims. These are not just rumors. If you take a look on Westlaw, you will see a MSPB case involving the firing of a Group VII attorney. One of the cited reasons for firing this attorney was his alleged failure to meet court deadlines. The attorney brought in several witnesses (former supervisory attorneys) who testified that missing court deadlines is very common due to the heavy workload. Another tidbit, the attorneys there regularly use boilerplate briefs. You won’t be performing high level appellate work as a Group VII attorney.

Of course, OGC at VA is huge so experiences may vary in other groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For some reason, reading this thread brings back into the forefront of my mind, this funny memory:

Back in 2017, a rumor began spreading around that management fired a dozen or so probationary employees and forced these employees to board a shuttle to complete their exit paperwork at VA Central Office. Upper management was so alarmed by this rumor that they directed the judges to meet with their teams to explicitly state that management did not force people to get on a bus after firing them.

It was hilarious to see management running around denying the rumor, particularly since the rumor was likely untrue - the Board's in-house HR handles the exit paperwork of terminated employees.

Anyone remember the Board attorney who was forced to resign after getting caught working as an Uber driver on the clock?

I heard the Uber rumor too, was it true?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve heard that OGC at is not a good place to work, particularly Group VII, which defends the Board’s decisions before the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims. These are not just rumors. If you take a look on Westlaw, you will see a MSPB case involving the firing of a Group VII attorney. One of the cited reasons for firing this attorney was his alleged failure to meet court deadlines. The attorney brought in several witnesses (former supervisory attorneys) who testified that missing court deadlines is very common due to the heavy workload. Another tidbit, the attorneys there regularly use boilerplate briefs. You won’t be performing high level appellate work as a Group VII attorney.

Of course, OGC at VA is huge so experiences may vary in other groups.

I bet their caseload is bad since BVA attorneys are forced to pump so many decisions out the door.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For some reason, reading this thread brings back into the forefront of my mind, this funny memory:

Back in 2017, a rumor began spreading around that management fired a dozen or so probationary employees and forced these employees to board a shuttle to complete their exit paperwork at VA Central Office. Upper management was so alarmed by this rumor that they directed the judges to meet with their teams to explicitly state that management did not force people to get on a bus after firing them.

It was hilarious to see management running around denying the rumor, particularly since the rumor was likely untrue - the Board's in-house HR handles the exit paperwork of terminated employees.

Anyone remember the Board attorney who was forced to resign after getting caught working as an Uber driver on the clock?

I heard the Uber rumor too, was it true?

IDK to be honest. The Board is a rumor mill, and there's so many rumors going around that it is difficult to know what is true and what is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve heard that OGC at is not a good place to work, particularly Group VII, which defends the Board’s decisions before the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims. These are not just rumors. If you take a look on Westlaw, you will see a MSPB case involving the firing of a Group VII attorney. One of the cited reasons for firing this attorney was his alleged failure to meet court deadlines. The attorney brought in several witnesses (former supervisory attorneys) who testified that missing court deadlines is very common due to the heavy workload. Another tidbit, the attorneys there regularly use boilerplate briefs. You won’t be performing high level appellate work as a Group VII attorney.

Of course, OGC at VA is huge so experiences may vary in other groups.

I bet their caseload is bad since BVA attorneys are forced to pump so many decisions out the door.

Yup, as seen in the MSPB decision, the workload at OGC is just as heavy as the Board. But, there is a key difference - the work environment isn't as hostile as the Board (comparatively speaking).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For some reason, reading this thread brings back into the forefront of my mind, this funny memory:

Back in 2017, a rumor began spreading around that management fired a dozen or so probationary employees and forced these employees to board a shuttle to complete their exit paperwork at VA Central Office. Upper management was so alarmed by this rumor that they directed the judges to meet with their teams to explicitly state that management did not force people to get on a bus after firing them.

It was hilarious to see management running around denying the rumor, particularly since the rumor was likely untrue - the Board's in-house HR handles the exit paperwork of terminated employees.

Anyone remember the Board attorney who was forced to resign after getting caught working as an Uber driver on the clock?

I heard the Uber rumor too, was it true?

IDK to be honest. The Board is a rumor mill, and there's so many rumors going around that it is difficult to know what is true and what is not.

That is for sure. One of the first things I was told by someone who had been there awhile was to try not to get caught up in the rumor mill, that BVA was like middle school in that regard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For some reason, reading this thread brings back into the forefront of my mind, this funny memory:

Back in 2017, a rumor began spreading around that management fired a dozen or so probationary employees and forced these employees to board a shuttle to complete their exit paperwork at VA Central Office. Upper management was so alarmed by this rumor that they directed the judges to meet with their teams to explicitly state that management did not force people to get on a bus after firing them.

It was hilarious to see management running around denying the rumor, particularly since the rumor was likely untrue - the Board's in-house HR handles the exit paperwork of terminated employees.

Anyone remember the Board attorney who was forced to resign after getting caught working as an Uber driver on the clock?

I heard the Uber rumor too, was it true?

IDK to be honest. The Board is a rumor mill, and there's so many rumors going around that it is difficult to know what is true and what is not.

That is for sure. One of the first things I was told by someone who had been there awhile was to try not to get caught up in the rumor mill, that BVA was like middle school in that regard.

Does anyone know if the work/life balance is any better at another agency like SSA or OMHA at HHS?

[Anonymous]

OMHA has the best quality of life - workload is reasonable and can be completed within a regular 40 hour work week.

SSA is a far second - work can be completed within a 40 hour week, but there's significantly more pressure to produce, and you have to account for your time. Work environment varies, depending on your office. Some offices are downright terrible, while others are okay.

BVA is the worst of the three and arguably the worst or one of the worst jobs for an attorney in the D.C. area. Workload is not reasonable and generally requires attorneys to work more than 40 hours a week. Some judges allow attorneys to shortcuts, such as not reviewing evidence that a claimant submitted. The attorneys who are assigned to these judges have an easier time completing work without having to do unpaid overtime. The quota is not the worst part of the job - the worst part is that management routinely fires anyone who complains about mistreatment or harassment. If you get assigned to a toxic judge, think twice before complaining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMHA has the best quality of life - workload is reasonable and can be completed within a regular 40 hour work week.

SSA is a far second - work can be completed within a 40 hour week, but there's significantly more pressure to produce, and you have to account for your time. Work environment varies, depending on your office. Some offices are downright terrible, while others are okay.

BVA is the worst of the three and arguably the worst or one of the worst jobs for an attorney in the D.C. area. Workload is not reasonable and generally requires attorneys to work more than 40 hours a week. Some judges allow attorneys to shortcuts, such as not reviewing evidence that a claimant submitted. The attorneys who are assigned to these judges have an easier time completing work without having to do unpaid overtime. The quota is not the worst part of the job - the worst part is that management routinely fires anyone who complains about mistreatment or harassment. If you get assigned to a toxic judge, think twice before complaining.

I once spoke to a person who was a lawyer for a federal union (NOT the union that represents BVA attorneys, they don't bother to outsource their legal work). He's done thousands of arbitration hearings against the federal government on employment issues in his lengthy career, some over minor issues, some over removals. I told him I worked at BVA. His comment to me was "well, I feel bad for you. you've managed to find the worst legal job in the entire federal government. good luck." I do not disagree with him.

[Anonymous]

Going on my fourth week since submitting all of my eqip paperwork. I am starting to worry. Everyone else seems to have gotten a final offer in 3 weeks or less. Anyone else having a similar wait time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Going on my fourth week since submitting all of my eqip paperwork. I am starting to worry. Everyone else seems to have gotten a final offer in 3 weeks or less. Anyone else having a similar wait time?

Dang, if the Board won’t take you, I’m not sure who will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is what got me to not apply - 90+ government attorneys publicly signed their name to a "loss of confidence" letter sent to the VA Secretary. https://www.afge.org/contentassets/a91c998d3be44362a75c5c67c60852f7/loss-of-confidence-statement.pdf

Only idiots would sign such a letter so that tells you what you need to know

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what got me to not apply - 90+ government attorneys publicly signed their name to a "loss of confidence" letter sent to the VA Secretary. https://www.afge.org/contentassets/a91c998d3be44362a75c5c67c60852f7/loss-of-confidence-statement.pdf

Only idiots would sign such a letter so that tells you what you need to know

Perhaps they're idiots. Or, they may just be so desperate for better working conditions that they're willing to risk their careers for the prospect of change. Who knows? Regardless of the reason, having 90+ attorneys openly dissent with management reveals a lot about the work environment at the Board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Going on my fourth week since submitting all of my eqip paperwork. I am starting to worry. Everyone else seems to have gotten a final offer in 3 weeks or less. Anyone else having a similar wait time?

Yes. As of last week my background check was still pending and mine has zero issues. I wouldn't worry about it. I submitted all of the paper work and sf-85p around the last week of June.

Who is everyone else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Going on my fourth week since submitting all of my eqip paperwork. I am starting to worry. Everyone else seems to have gotten a final offer in 3 weeks or less. Anyone else having a similar wait time?

Yes. As of last week my background check was still pending and mine has zero issues. I wouldn't worry about it. I submitted all of the paper work and sf-85p around the last week of June.

Who is everyone else?

Thanks for chiming in. Good to know I am not alone in this exhaustive process. Please keep us updated on your status as I will do the same. I am going to be optimistic and chalk up the delay to Covid and the July 4th holiday.