Is being bi-gender a "thing" at your kid's school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, how does everyone feel about having gay, lesbian, transgender, etc preteens in gender-specific camp cabins?

We already do -- unless there are camps that have coed cabins for ages 12 and under? Maybe there are, I don't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid says she's a lesbian and has for a while now. Recently she also indicated she's gender non conforming.
I think it's important for me to let my kid know I love her and I accept her whether she's GNC, bi, gay, whatever. Frankly her sexuality is not important to me. Her sexual HEALTH is, and I don't want her having sex yet with anybody of whatever gender. But what she grows up to prefer sexually is not important to me. As long as she's healthy, happy, and not hurting anyone.

Now my kid (daughter) is about as feminine as a person can be. In my heart I don't really believe she is GNC. But I take her to a therapist (started for other reasons) and I'll respect her right to go by whatever name or pronouns or wear whatever clothes.... that's all trivial to me. I'm more concerned with her grades, diet, exercise, and rewarding social life.

I think this is another form of teenage pushing the envelope and testing the waters. I think it's important not to make this an issue around which the kid can rebel. If she wanted to get surgery or take hormones, that would be a different situation. Much more serious. As it involves her long term health. But right now she wants to label herself as a (whatever) sexual with her gaggle of girlfriends? I really couldn't care less about labels. As long as she is kind, respectful, well-behaved, studious, etc. etc.

Wow. Frankly, I think you're nuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I have noticed this in my 14 YO and her peer group. No one wants to be boring vanilla anymore.

14? We have an 8-year-old girl in my child's camp who's obviously pulling the gender-queer crap, and she doesn't seem to be transgender. So DD's coming home and announcing that, from now on, she wouldn't come near any clothing that have the smallest sliver of pink and purple in it so she'll look just like her friend who wouldn't be caught dead in a pink shirt (or, God forbid, a dress!) It's all nice and dandy except DD doesn't have a lot of dark colors in her wardrobe just because it was never an issue until now. So this week my child's been wearing black T-shirts in 90-degree weather just to be as 'cool' as her friend.

We'll be going to the beach soon so I'm starting to pack and I'm showing DD her old favorite T-shirt with a bunny on it. The shirt is unapologetically pink. "Should we pack it"? "Yes, we should," says DD, "no one will know me at the beach."

Ugh. I'm scared to think what happens in middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I have noticed this in my 14 YO and her peer group. No one wants to be boring vanilla anymore.

14? We have an 8-year-old girl in my child's camp who's obviously pulling the gender-queer crap, and she doesn't seem to be transgender. So DD's coming home and announcing that, from now on, she wouldn't come near any clothing that have the smallest sliver of pink and purple in it so she'll look just like her friend who wouldn't be caught dead in a pink shirt (or, God forbid, a dress!) It's all nice and dandy except DD doesn't have a lot of dark colors in her wardrobe just because it was never an issue until now. So this week my child's been wearing black T-shirts in 90-degree weather just to be as 'cool' as her friend.

We'll be going to the beach soon so I'm starting to pack and I'm showing DD her old favorite T-shirt with a bunny on it. The shirt is unapologetically pink. "Should we pack it"? "Yes, we should," says DD, "no one will know me at the beach."

Ugh. I'm scared to think what happens in middle school.

PP, you know what? In my experience with two daughters, the whole pink tsunami is over around age 8, even if every single girl the girls know are girls born as girls with girl parts identifying as girls. Get your daughter some clothes that aren't pink, now that she's 8.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid says she's a lesbian and has for a while now. Recently she also indicated she's gender non conforming.
I think it's important for me to let my kid know I love her and I accept her whether she's GNC, bi, gay, whatever. Frankly her sexuality is not important to me. Her sexual HEALTH is, and I don't want her having sex yet with anybody of whatever gender. But what she grows up to prefer sexually is not important to me. As long as she's healthy, happy, and not hurting anyone.

Now my kid (daughter) is about as feminine as a person can be. In my heart I don't really believe she is GNC. But I take her to a therapist (started for other reasons) and I'll respect her right to go by whatever name or pronouns or wear whatever clothes.... that's all trivial to me. I'm more concerned with her grades, diet, exercise, and rewarding social life.

I think this is another form of teenage pushing the envelope and testing the waters. I think it's important not to make this an issue around which the kid can rebel. If she wanted to get surgery or take hormones, that would be a different situation. Much more serious. As it involves her long term health. But right now she wants to label herself as a (whatever) sexual with her gaggle of girlfriends? I really couldn't care less about labels. As long as she is kind, respectful, well-behaved, studious, etc. etc.

Wow. Frankly, I think you're nuts.

Fortunately the opinion of some anonymous poster on an Internet message board is irrelevant to the lives of both the PP and the PP's child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are only 3 genders...male, female, and mental illness.

If you want to live your life like that, then you should live your life like that. However, I hope that you will be polite to everybody. Also, please be aware that, if you are rude to people for being their gender wrong (according to you), there are plenty of people who will have a low opinion of you as a consequence.

Only people who haven't taken a biology class. There are only men and women. Men have a penis and women have a vagina. PERIOD

The fact that so- called grown, mature adults have to be reminded of this is staggering.

Do you deny that intersex people exist?

What about people who had penises, but lost them due to medical incidents or accidents, even combat? They don't have vaginas? Isn't what's in your head important?

No what's in "your head" is not important especially since, as evidenced here, what is in a lot of people's heads is very peverted and mixed up. And as to men that have lost organs due to accident- they are still chromosomly and biologically males of course. As are men who wear dresses, change their name to Katie, and pretend to be female.

I have come to realize that here in lies the crux of this issue. The bolded statement, that above does not bother me a lick. Even if its "all wrong", even if there is no biological or societal basis to say that a person IS or IS NOT a certain sex based on what they feel in their head/ or based on their body, it simply does not bother me if someone who is 1 sex wants to "pretend" to be the other sex. It just doesn't. FWIW, I don't think its so simple as pretending to be something or being 100% in the wrong body. But eve if it were, I don't see why that should preclude anyone from any rights or the ability to do that, its just not something that matters to me. Just like the idea that someone is 'born' gay or 'chooses' to live as a gay person, I always kind of partially disliked the idea that it would be OK to discriminate based on a choice. So what if it IS a choice for some people in the middle of the sexual spectrum or whatever, it doesn't matter to me if its something that feel biological or feels like a choice, it should just be respected as part of humanity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can't "what gender are you?" and "what do you identify as?" be two separate questions? Everyone is born with one set of parts or another. I respect everyone's right to their own identities and preferences, but except in extreme cases, the set of parts is an absolute and I believe people should use the facilities that are designed for the set of parts they were born with.

The fact that camp cabins for 11-12 year olds now contain transgender kids is an issue I have encountered for the first time this summer.

You "respect" everyone's "right" to their own preferences? Are you always this loony???

I believe it's snowing outside today. Do you "respect" my thinking when I go out on 90 degree heat wearing a snowsuit? I hope you would recognize that I'm either sick in the head or just doing something off beat to get attention. And you would "respect" that?

Who sounds loony? I fully support your right to give yourself heat stroke.

Ah, so you are claiming that I'm wrong. How dare you be so judgmental. I say it's snowing and I expect everyone around me to behave as such. It's not enough that I'm lighting a fire, toasting marshmallows and wearing snow boots today. I expect you to affirm me, and do the same. Otherwise, you are a hateful bigot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are only 3 genders...male, female, and mental illness.

If you want to live your life like that, then you should live your life like that. However, I hope that you will be polite to everybody. Also, please be aware that, if you are rude to people for being their gender wrong (according to you), there are plenty of people who will have a low opinion of you as a consequence.

Only people who haven't taken a biology class. There are only men and women. Men have a penis and women have a vagina. PERIOD

The fact that so- called grown, mature adults have to be reminded of this is staggering.

Do you deny that intersex people exist?

What about people who had penises, but lost them due to medical incidents or accidents, even combat? They don't have vaginas? Isn't what's in your head important?

No what's in "your head" is not important especially since, as evidenced here, what is in a lot of people's heads is very peverted and mixed up. And as to men that have lost organs due to accident- they are still chromosomly and biologically males of course. As are men who wear dresses, change their name to Katie, and pretend to be female.

I have come to realize that here in lies the crux of this issue. The bolded statement, that above does not bother me a lick. Even if its "all wrong", even if there is no biological or societal basis to say that a person IS or IS NOT a certain sex based on what they feel in their head/ or based on their body, it simply does not bother me if someone who is 1 sex wants to "pretend" to be the other sex. It just doesn't. FWIW, I don't think its so simple as pretending to be something or being 100% in the wrong body. But eve if it were, I don't see why that should preclude anyone from any rights or the ability to do that, its just not something that matters to me. Just like the idea that someone is 'born' gay or 'chooses' to live as a gay person, I always kind of partially disliked the idea that it would be OK to discriminate based on a choice. So what if it IS a choice for some people in the middle of the sexual spectrum or whatever, it doesn't matter to me if its something that feel biological or feels like a choice, it should just be respected as part of humanity.

I would care less if people pretending to be the other sex didn't decide they needed to adopt the most extreme stereotypes of gender performance in order to do it. You're a woman? And we know you're a woman because you're wearing ridiculous high heels and always made up a ton and your hair tweaked within an inch of its life? How about being a woman and wear some jeans and a tshirt. Oh, that doesn't make you feel feminine enough? The extreme gender performance makes me think it's more of a fetish than anything else. And it reinforces gender performance which I think is damaging to girls and woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, how does everyone feel about having gay, lesbian, transgender, etc preteens in gender-specific camp cabins?

We already do -- unless there are camps that have coed cabins for ages 12 and under? Maybe there are, I don't know.

Yes we do, and I don't like it. There was a 13 year old boy in my son's cabin at camp who wanted everyone to know he's gay. He also clearly wore large quantities of makeup. Isn't the point of separating them by sex that they can change among people who aren't interested in the parts they have?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Also, people use they/them to talk about a singular person all the time. For example, "Who left this package by the door?" "I don't know, I didn't see them, the package was already here when I got here." Or "Who was the second tuba player at the rehearsal last week?" "I don't know, they're new."

" Jessica and Eric went to the 7-11. They robbed the 7-11."

Did both people rob the 7-11 or did just the one who identifies as 'they' do it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are only 3 genders...male, female, and mental illness.

If you want to live your life like that, then you should live your life like that. However, I hope that you will be polite to everybody. Also, please be aware that, if you are rude to people for being their gender wrong (according to you), there are plenty of people who will have a low opinion of you as a consequence.

Only people who haven't taken a biology class. There are only men and women. Men have a penis and women have a vagina. PERIOD

The fact that so- called grown, mature adults have to be reminded of this is staggering.

Do you deny that intersex people exist?

What about people who had penises, but lost them due to medical incidents or accidents, even combat? They don't have vaginas? Isn't what's in your head important?

No what's in "your head" is not important especially since, as evidenced here, what is in a lot of people's heads is very peverted and mixed up. And as to men that have lost organs due to accident- they are still chromosomly and biologically males of course. As are men who wear dresses, change their name to Katie, and pretend to be female.

I have come to realize that here in lies the crux of this issue. The bolded statement, that above does not bother me a lick. Even if its "all wrong", even if there is no biological or societal basis to say that a person IS or IS NOT a certain sex based on what they feel in their head/ or based on their body, it simply does not bother me if someone who is 1 sex wants to "pretend" to be the other sex. It just doesn't. FWIW, I don't think its so simple as pretending to be something or being 100% in the wrong body. But eve if it were, I don't see why that should preclude anyone from any rights or the ability to do that, its just not something that matters to me. Just like the idea that someone is 'born' gay or 'chooses' to live as a gay person, I always kind of partially disliked the idea that it would be OK to discriminate based on a choice. So what if it IS a choice for some people in the middle of the sexual spectrum or whatever, it doesn't matter to me if its something that feel biological or feels like a choice, it should just be respected as part of humanity.

I would care less if people pretending to be the other sex didn't decide they needed to adopt the most extreme stereotypes of gender performance in order to do it. You're a woman? And we know you're a woman because you're wearing ridiculous high heels and always made up a ton and your hair tweaked within an inch of its life? How about being a woman and wear some jeans and a tshirt. Oh, that doesn't make you feel feminine enough? The extreme gender performance makes me think it's more of a fetish than anything else. And it reinforces gender performance which I think is damaging to girls and woman.

This is my feeling on it too. Even in the trans kids...I watched some documentary on a trans kid and it was how the kid liked pink and frilly things and playing with Barbies, and wearing make-up and twirling in a tutu and liked drawing butterflies...so they knew 'he' was a girl. As someone who was a girl and liked none of those things...this gender orientation being based on stereotypes makes no sense to me. And that is how transwomen seem to identify as woman - hair, makeup, dresses and pink/purple...i am now a woman who still doesn't care about those things. It is kind of strange to realize that trans folks would't see me as a woman / female because I don't have the interests that to them define being a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are only 3 genders...male, female, and mental illness.

If you want to live your life like that, then you should live your life like that. However, I hope that you will be polite to everybody. Also, please be aware that, if you are rude to people for being their gender wrong (according to you), there are plenty of people who will have a low opinion of you as a consequence.

Only people who haven't taken a biology class. There are only men and women. Men have a penis and women have a vagina. PERIOD

The fact that so- called grown, mature adults have to be reminded of this is staggering.

Do you deny that intersex people exist?

What about people who had penises, but lost them due to medical incidents or accidents, even combat? They don't have vaginas? Isn't what's in your head important?

No what's in "your head" is not important especially since, as evidenced here, what is in a lot of people's heads is very peverted and mixed up. And as to men that have lost organs due to accident- they are still chromosomly and biologically males of course. As are men who wear dresses, change their name to Katie, and pretend to be female.

I have come to realize that here in lies the crux of this issue. The bolded statement, that above does not bother me a lick. Even if its "all wrong", even if there is no biological or societal basis to say that a person IS or IS NOT a certain sex based on what they feel in their head/ or based on their body, it simply does not bother me if someone who is 1 sex wants to "pretend" to be the other sex. It just doesn't. FWIW, I don't think its so simple as pretending to be something or being 100% in the wrong body. But eve if it were, I don't see why that should preclude anyone from any rights or the ability to do that, its just not something that matters to me. Just like the idea that someone is 'born' gay or 'chooses' to live as a gay person, I always kind of partially disliked the idea that it would be OK to discriminate based on a choice. So what if it IS a choice for some people in the middle of the sexual spectrum or whatever, it doesn't matter to me if its something that feel biological or feels like a choice, it should just be respected as part of humanity.

The problem, though, is that it is no longer enough for you to be ok with it. You now are required to change your way of life and sane thinking to accommodate it.

[Anonymous]

I think it is very much en vogue to be anything but a straight member of your birth gender. 2 years ago, my daughter told me she was bi. 1 year ago, she said she was gay. About 5 to 7 of her friends from school have said that they are gay. She is in a private school with a very small class size so I doubt that .25 or more of their class is gay, but maybe. She has another friend who says she is bi who goes to different school. And probably .75 of the kids in her daycamp claim to be gay or bi. I tend to think not all of them are gay or bi - not that it matters whether they are or aren't. I think that the majority are socially awkward late bloomers who don't want to be posting the overtly sexy selfies that the girls who have full scale discovered boys do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I have noticed this in my 14 YO and her peer group. No one wants to be boring vanilla anymore.

14? We have an 8-year-old girl in my child's camp who's obviously pulling the gender-queer crap, and she doesn't seem to be transgender. So DD's coming home and announcing that, from now on, she wouldn't come near any clothing that have the smallest sliver of pink and purple in it so she'll look just like her friend who wouldn't be caught dead in a pink shirt (or, God forbid, a dress!) It's all nice and dandy except DD doesn't have a lot of dark colors in her wardrobe just because it was never an issue until now. So this week my child's been wearing black T-shirts in 90-degree weather just to be as 'cool' as her friend.

We'll be going to the beach soon so I'm starting to pack and I'm showing DD her old favorite T-shirt with a bunny on it. The shirt is unapologetically pink. "Should we pack it"? "Yes, we should," says DD, "no one will know me at the beach."

Ugh. I'm scared to think what happens in middle school.

PP, you know what? In my experience with two daughters, the whole pink tsunami is over around age 8, even if every single girl the girls know are girls born as girls with girl parts identifying as girls. Get your daughter some clothes that aren't pink, now that she's 8.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are only 3 genders...male, female, and mental illness.

If you want to live your life like that, then you should live your life like that. However, I hope that you will be polite to everybody. Also, please be aware that, if you are rude to people for being their gender wrong (according to you), there are plenty of people who will have a low opinion of you as a consequence.

Only people who haven't taken a biology class. There are only men and women. Men have a penis and women have a vagina. PERIOD

The fact that so- called grown, mature adults have to be reminded of this is staggering.

Do you deny that intersex people exist?

What about people who had penises, but lost them due to medical incidents or accidents, even combat? They don't have vaginas? Isn't what's in your head important?

No what's in "your head" is not important especially since, as evidenced here, what is in a lot of people's heads is very peverted and mixed up. And as to men that have lost organs due to accident- they are still chromosomly and biologically males of course. As are men who wear dresses, change their name to Katie, and pretend to be female.

I have come to realize that here in lies the crux of this issue. The bolded statement, that above does not bother me a lick. Even if its "all wrong", even if there is no biological or societal basis to say that a person IS or IS NOT a certain sex based on what they feel in their head/ or based on their body, it simply does not bother me if someone who is 1 sex wants to "pretend" to be the other sex. It just doesn't. FWIW, I don't think its so simple as pretending to be something or being 100% in the wrong body. But eve if it were, I don't see why that should preclude anyone from any rights or the ability to do that, its just not something that matters to me. Just like the idea that someone is 'born' gay or 'chooses' to live as a gay person, I always kind of partially disliked the idea that it would be OK to discriminate based on a choice. So what if it IS a choice for some people in the middle of the sexual spectrum or whatever, it doesn't matter to me if its something that feel biological or feels like a choice, it should just be respected as part of humanity.

I would care less if people pretending to be the other sex didn't decide they needed to adopt the most extreme stereotypes of gender performance in order to do it. You're a woman? And we know you're a woman because you're wearing ridiculous high heels and always made up a ton and your hair tweaked within an inch of its life? How about being a woman and wear some jeans and a tshirt. Oh, that doesn't make you feel feminine enough? The extreme gender performance makes me think it's more of a fetish than anything else. And it reinforces gender performance which I think is damaging to girls and woman.

This is my feeling on it too. Even in the trans kids...I watched some documentary on a trans kid and it was how the kid liked pink and frilly things and playing with Barbies, and wearing make-up and twirling in a tutu and liked drawing butterflies...so they knew 'he' was a girl. As someone who was a girl and liked none of those things...this gender orientation being based on stereotypes makes no sense to me. And that is how transwomen seem to identify as woman - hair, makeup, dresses and pink/purple...i am now a woman who still doesn't care about those things. It is kind of strange to realize that trans folks would't see me as a woman / female because I don't have the interests that to them define being a woman.

Not all transwomen gravitate toward hyper-feminine attire and behavior.