TJ - which middle schools had students accepted in 2017

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought the issue being debated here is non-asian kids not having the opportunity to attend the best STEM school because their asian peers prep to death and achieve better scores.

Well, one solution would be to build more TJs and allow everyone who is interested to enroll. FCPS just need to pull funding from sports program and allott it to building more STEM school. After all, public schools' sole purpose is to provide a publicly funded education, and it should not use tax payers money to fund extra curricular activities.

That's a lie to start with.

I know, but it seems like a lot of non-asian parents believe it and use this prep thing as an excuse as to why their kids score lower that asian kids.

They don't necessarily believe it. They just found it convenient to label people that way so that they use it to their advantage. These people have no ethics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I demand equal representation in sports! My asian kids are entitled to a spot in the basketball or football teams even though they are probably not as good as your white or black kids!

If one demands TJ's makeup to reflect the general population then it should not stop at TJ, but should encompass every single program in FCPS, including but not limited to sports.

Asian kids are pretty well represented in sports in FCPS. Tennis, track, swim/dive, LAX, soccer-- all have plenty of Asian kids at our base school. Probably close to representing their population in the school. They may not be as represented in football and basketball, but are they trying out for these sports? TJ football only had 9 freshman this year. They are looking at not being able to field a team next year. So, Asian kids certainly are not trying out for football at TJ. No one is. If there are 200 Asian kids trying out for a FCPS football team, and only 8 make it, like the AA or FARMS or Hispanic numbers at TJ, you might be on to something. Can you find a school where this is happening? My strong guess is no.

If there aren't enough asian kids trying for football or basketball in FCPS, then the county should create a program specifically for asian kids encouraging them to play the sports and join a team. Just like they're doing with outreach programs for URM to encourage these kids to achieve better academically.

The problem with the sports = TJ analogy is that our public SCHOOL system's purpose is to provide a publicly funded education... the purpose of our public school system is not to provide sports training for kids. Sports are an EXTRA curricular activity. I think we, the public, have a greater interest in making sure the BEST resources and classes are not somehow used primarily for the benefit of one group. Disperate impact speaks to discrimination that isn't necessarily intended, but still has a negative impact on one or more groups. As a taxpayer, I want our public sci/tech school to include a more representative mix of students. I'm totally fine with having a lottery system once applicants meet a certain test threshold. No one can prep for a lottery!

If the sole purpose of our public school is to provide a publicly funded education then they should eliminate all school sports and the money they would save can go toward building another (or 2, or 3) TJ, then every single kid that applied and met the threshold (which isn't very high) would be offered admission.

We don't need 2 or 3 more TJs. We need zero TJs. It's a blight on the county.

When you here parents who've moved to Arlington talk about avoiding or escaping the "AAP craziness," do you really not understand what they mean?

You sound like you want to be a big dictator who can decide everybody's fate. What a delusional loser!

Stop babbling and deal with the fact that TJ's days are numbered. There is nothing that obligates the county to operate a special school for test prep junkies and cheaters indefinitely.

You've been babbling that for years and TJ is only getting better and more competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I demand equal representation in sports! My asian kids are entitled to a spot in the basketball or football teams even though they are probably not as good as your white or black kids!

If one demands TJ's makeup to reflect the general population then it should not stop at TJ, but should encompass every single program in FCPS, including but not limited to sports.

Asian kids are pretty well represented in sports in FCPS. Tennis, track, swim/dive, LAX, soccer-- all have plenty of Asian kids at our base school. Probably close to representing their population in the school. They may not be as represented in football and basketball, but are they trying out for these sports? TJ football only had 9 freshman this year. They are looking at not being able to field a team next year. So, Asian kids certainly are not trying out for football at TJ. No one is. If there are 200 Asian kids trying out for a FCPS football team, and only 8 make it, like the AA or FARMS or Hispanic numbers at TJ, you might be on to something. Can you find a school where this is happening? My strong guess is no.

If there aren't enough asian kids trying for football or basketball in FCPS, then the county should create a program specifically for asian kids encouraging them to play the sports and join a team. Just like they're doing with outreach programs for URM to encourage these kids to achieve better academically.

The problem with the sports = TJ analogy is that our public SCHOOL system's purpose is to provide a publicly funded education... the purpose of our public school system is not to provide sports training for kids. Sports are an EXTRA curricular activity. I think we, the public, have a greater interest in making sure the BEST resources and classes are not somehow used primarily for the benefit of one group. Disperate impact speaks to discrimination that isn't necessarily intended, but still has a negative impact on one or more groups. As a taxpayer, I want our public sci/tech school to include a more representative mix of students. I'm totally fine with having a lottery system once applicants meet a certain test threshold. No one can prep for a lottery!

If the sole purpose of our public school is to provide a publicly funded education then they should eliminate all school sports and the money they would save can go toward building another (or 2, or 3) TJ, then every single kid that applied and met the threshold (which isn't very high) would be offered admission.

We don't need 2 or 3 more TJs. We need zero TJs. It's a blight on the county.

When you here parents who've moved to Arlington talk about avoiding or escaping the "AAP craziness," do you really not understand what they mean?

You sound like you want to be a big dictator who can decide everybody's fate. What a delusional loser!

Stop babbling and deal with the fact that TJ's days are numbered. There is nothing that obligates the county to operate a special school for test prep junkies and cheaters indefinitely.

omg! I'm so scared that TJs days are numbered as in your days are numbered. There is nothing that obligates our tax payers to support a special group of parasites and criminals who don't even know who their dads are indefinitely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's become a myth that Asian kids prepped hard to score high on tests.
Look at the international olympiad in math, physics, chemistry,..... that require highest intellectual ability and take a wild guess at Asian concentration in USA national teams. It's been averaging 70-90% Asians during last decade.
Did they overprep? Who cares! If you can prep to achieve the highest honor in the whole world (be it math olympiad or sports olympiad) then so be it!
The point is you have no way to even come close to that level even if you prep to death because it also requires raw talent that you guys conveniently ignore.

that said, we have no condolence for cheating. All the cheating students should be given an F and be suspended accordingly. We'll also urge the new TJ leadership to take action on cheating.

Parents need to support and back up the administration in cracking down on cheating. Parents need to be very clear in telling their kids that cheating is unacceptable in their household. Every kid caught needs to be held accountable and the offense needs to be entered on the record that goes to colleges. Students need to understand that cheating is a very serious infraction.

We can't have parents complaining when their kids are caught and working to get the consequences reduced. We can't have parents blaming teachers when their kids get caught cheating and making excuses for kids when they cheat.

Parents need to tell the administrators that they want a school which will not tolerate cheating and that they will be 100% behind actions that the admins take to eliminate cheating at TJ. I would like to see the school send home a contract saying this before school starts, to be signed by students and parents and which every student must have on file.

New Asian TJ parent here. I'm all for this to happen. To be honest, after reading this forum, I'm really worried about DD starting TJ in the fall. Not only am I afraid she won't stand a chance against students that can buy old tests, but also that she'll be labeled a cheater because of her race.

Don't worry too much about a handful of naysayers here posing anonymously. No one cares about these trolls. Possibly it's just the same person, or at the most a couple. Regarding your daughter not standing a chance, I say it doesn't matter, she should work hard and earn her grades and if someone cheated on the questions and get better grades so be it. If your child is capable she will come up in life and those who use short cut methods will always end up looking for such methods in life and eventually will fail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought the issue being debated here is non-asian kids not having the opportunity to attend the best STEM school because their asian peers prep to death and achieve better scores.

Well, one solution would be to build more TJs and allow everyone who is interested to enroll. FCPS just need to pull funding from sports program and allott it to building more STEM school. After all, public schools' sole purpose is to provide a publicly funded education, and it should not use tax payers money to fund extra curricular activities.

That's a lie to start with.

I know, but it seems like a lot of non-asian parents believe it and use this prep thing as an excuse as to why their kids score lower that asian kids.

They don't necessarily believe it. They just found it convenient to label people that way so that they use it to their advantage. These people have no ethics.

Doesn't matter what these people are saying, they've been saying this for years, fact is TJ knows how to figure out between deserving and non-deserving candidates. It's not perfect, but close. There may be a few exceptions here and there, but mostly they are doing a good job.

[Anonymous]

The strident posters here are mostly Fem-Nazis. One of the First posts was why the male/female ratio was not 50/50. When you mix in racism with that, you have a Hitlerina. BTW, I think it's the same person who keeps posting the same crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOTTERY solves the problem.

Yeah let's just dumb down everything! Anything to make your precious snowflakes feel better.

oh so hostile (as was the other poster who called me a hypocrit -- whatever that means).... what's wrong with a lottery? It's fair to everyone who has passed a defined threshold. There are a limited number of spots, and I think we all agree that there are plenty of capable students who do not get admission under the current process. And there is an objective problem with the admissions when only 1% of certain groups are admitted. This has nothing to do with "my precious snowflake" as my snowflake probably isn't going to TJ b/c I wouldn't want him in that environment. I'm part of the resistance -- the white folks who are no longer even seeking TJ b/c of what it has become (not just demographics, but the pressure/anxiety culture). So, this really isn't about me or my snowflake.

I know other school systems that offer spots to the elementary G/T programs based on lottery. Clearly, the DCPS offers regular school admissions based on lottery. We're not talking about random lottery admissions for everyone -- we're talking about random lottery for those who pass certain criteria. It would end up with a much better demographic result and it can't be gamed. It will eliminate the "asian kids are taking over" or "asian kids are ruining it for the rest of us" mindset. Lottery would reduce the importance of prep classes. If you think the way it is done right now is based solely on merit -- I would beg to differ.

[Anonymous]

yes I know what "hypocrite" means -- but not in the context it was used as an insult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
that said, we have no condolence for cheating. All the cheating students should be given an F and be suspended accordingly. We'll also urge the new TJ leadership to take action on cheating.

Parents need to support and back up the administration in cracking down on cheating. Parents need to be very clear in telling their kids that cheating is unacceptable in their household. Every kid caught needs to be held accountable and the offense needs to be entered on the record that goes to colleges. Students need to understand that cheating is a very serious infraction.

We can't have parents complaining when their kids are caught and working to get the consequences reduced. We can't have parents blaming teachers when their kids get caught cheating and making excuses for kids when they cheat.

Parents need to tell the administrators that they want a school which will not tolerate cheating and that they will be 100% behind actions that the admins take to eliminate cheating at TJ. I would like to see the school send home a contract saying this before school starts, to be signed by students and parents and which every student must have on file.

This thread is pages long! I'm assuming that the posts decrying cheating are not the same person. If so, why don't you guys start a petition on this cheating issue and get parent signatures. I'm sure all the freshmen will sign up (including the "cheating" asian ones, don't you think?) My kid is just starting TJ and I'd gladly sign the petition. I'd also expect the school to lay down strict rules/guidelines AND the teachers to change their test questions every year (can't believe this needs to be told).

I would like kids to not cheat, even if the teacher uses a test that has been used before. Why blame the teachers when kids cheat?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
that said, we have no condolence for cheating. All the cheating students should be given an F and be suspended accordingly. We'll also urge the new TJ leadership to take action on cheating.

Parents need to support and back up the administration in cracking down on cheating. Parents need to be very clear in telling their kids that cheating is unacceptable in their household. Every kid caught needs to be held accountable and the offense needs to be entered on the record that goes to colleges. Students need to understand that cheating is a very serious infraction.

We can't have parents complaining when their kids are caught and working to get the consequences reduced. We can't have parents blaming teachers when their kids get caught cheating and making excuses for kids when they cheat.

Parents need to tell the administrators that they want a school which will not tolerate cheating and that they will be 100% behind actions that the admins take to eliminate cheating at TJ. I would like to see the school send home a contract saying this before school starts, to be signed by students and parents and which every student must have on file.

This thread is pages long! I'm assuming that the posts decrying cheating are not the same person. If so, why don't you guys start a petition on this cheating issue and get parent signatures. I'm sure all the freshmen will sign up (including the "cheating" asian ones, don't you think?) My kid is just starting TJ and I'd gladly sign the petition. I'd also expect the school to lay down strict rules/guidelines AND the teachers to change their test questions every year (can't believe this needs to be told).

I would like kids to not cheat, even if the teacher uses a test that has been used before. Why blame the teachers when kids cheat?

Sorry, hit submit too soon.

I'm not sure a petition is appropriate here. I'd like to see the school create a contract that makes it clear that if a student cheats, there will be consequences that increase in severity with each transaction, with the third strike meaning return to the student's base school. The parents need to understand that cheating will not be tolerated by the school, and they will not accept excuses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOTTERY solves the problem.

Yeah let's just dumb down everything! Anything to make your precious snowflakes feel better.

oh so hostile (as was the other poster who called me a hypocrit -- whatever that means).... what's wrong with a lottery? It's fair to everyone who has passed a defined threshold. There are a limited number of spots, and I think we all agree that there are plenty of capable students who do not get admission under the current process. And there is an objective problem with the admissions when only 1% of certain groups are admitted. This has nothing to do with "my precious snowflake" as my snowflake probably isn't going to TJ b/c I wouldn't want him in that environment. I'm part of the resistance -- the white folks who are no longer even seeking TJ b/c of what it has become (not just demographics, but the pressure/anxiety culture). So, this really isn't about me or my snowflake.

I know other school systems that offer spots to the elementary G/T programs based on lottery. Clearly, the DCPS offers regular school admissions based on lottery. We're not talking about random lottery admissions for everyone -- we're talking about random lottery for those who pass certain criteria. It would end up with a much better demographic result and it can't be gamed. It will eliminate the "asian kids are taking over" or "asian kids are ruining it for the rest of us" mindset. Lottery would reduce the importance of prep classes. If you think the way it is done right now is based solely on merit -- I would beg to differ.

Asian parent here.. Wholeheartedly agree with this. Prob. one of the most logical solutions to the capacity problem. You are right, we will need at least one more TJ to accommodate all the qualified kids. Why not a lottery of qualified candidates? This shuts everyone up.

[Anonymous]

Ok people want to know the dirty secret there already are multiple TJs

It's called any AP/honors sequence in most of the high schools in FCPS Arlington and Loudoun

TJ = a couple hundred people can do math a year early that's it in the big scheme of things it means nothing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
that said, we have no condolence for cheating. All the cheating students should be given an F and be suspended accordingly. We'll also urge the new TJ leadership to take action on cheating.

Parents need to support and back up the administration in cracking down on cheating. Parents need to be very clear in telling their kids that cheating is unacceptable in their household. Every kid caught needs to be held accountable and the offense needs to be entered on the record that goes to colleges. Students need to understand that cheating is a very serious infraction.

We can't have parents complaining when their kids are caught and working to get the consequences reduced. We can't have parents blaming teachers when their kids get caught cheating and making excuses for kids when they cheat.

Parents need to tell the administrators that they want a school which will not tolerate cheating and that they will be 100% behind actions that the admins take to eliminate cheating at TJ. I would like to see the school send home a contract saying this before school starts, to be signed by students and parents and which every student must have on file.

This thread is pages long! I'm assuming that the posts decrying cheating are not the same person. If so, why don't you guys start a petition on this cheating issue and get parent signatures. I'm sure all the freshmen will sign up (including the "cheating" asian ones, don't you think?) My kid is just starting TJ and I'd gladly sign the petition. I'd also expect the school to lay down strict rules/guidelines AND the teachers to change their test questions every year (can't believe this needs to be told).

I would like kids to not cheat, even if the teacher uses a test that has been used before. Why blame the teachers when kids cheat?

You are talking like the "Parents" are one single entity. They are not. They come together when issues matter to them and don't otherwise. The school is in charge. They should lead this effort and convince/cajole/bully parents and students into compliance. Middle School starts at 7:30. They didn't ask me. They just announced it. Nothing prevents TJ management to announce that cheaters will get a failing grade in the tests that they cheat in. This will affect their overall grade and if that falls below a B, they go back to base. Don't understand why this is complicated. I as a parent do not have the time to be involved in this.

Same with the teachers. If they can't even change the questions from year to year, come on.. that's the height of laziness.

[Anonymous]

Both the county and FCPS were much better before TJHSST was set up. One day we'll get back to some measure of normalcy. I feel so sorry for the people who were robbed of their neighborhood school and now have to watch bus loads of Asians pour in from western Fairfax as their own kids cross 95 and 395 to get to Edison.

[Anonymous]

While penalties on cheating students may be instituted, it should not be the primary focus of this discussion. I am more concerned about teachers, who don't care to level the field for their students or actually learn about their students' progress and grade accordingly. If test questions are recycled by the teacher, he/she gets no feedback on whether his students learnt anything at all or simply copied someone's solution from the previous year. If test questions change, but only a portion of the class has access to old exams, that portion of the class has an advantage on the actual test, rendering any grading in that course as well as recommendation letters devoid of reality. But grades and recommendation letters ultimately do matter for the kids' future, who are we kidding? If you are a teacher, don't recycle old test questions in your new tests but do make the old questions available to every student in the class! Why are we trying to hold the kids to a higher standard than adults? It's the teacher's job to evaluate his/her students in a manner that reflects their real knowledge and skills, not their level of honesty or ability to get their hands on the old tests. If this is happening, it's because the teacher is not doing his job!

I had this happen in a grad class (there were ten Ph.D. students in it), that I took years ago. Three students (German, Italian and (white) American) got access to an old exam from a more senior student, while a professor in that course decided to use the exact same exam questions again. The three got A's, the rest landed on a curve. There is simply no way to outperform a student, who comes with readily available answers, on an exam with real time pressure, no matter how smart you are. That's because, even if you are the smartest person in the room, you still need time to think (provided the test questions are not completely trivial).

An excellent Chinese student in that class got an F (since his score was way below the cheaters' score, and the curve adjusts for the mean score), was put on probation, had to repeat the course. He ultimately graduated, but don't tell me that experience was somehow useful for him. He wasted two-three years of his graduate life on that nonsense. Of the three cheaters, two are now professors, navigating their careers quite successfully, I might add: kissing editors' ass...s, stroking egos of important people in the field... you know, "networking." The chinese guy is also a professor (at a slightly less prestigeous school). Honesty is an individual characteristic, not racial. But my point is that grading should not be about honesty or following rules, it should be about finding a way to correctly evaluate students, and it's a direct responsibility of teachers to do that. And, if you think that you will not cheat when stakes are high and everyone around you is cheating, look at the Wells Fargo scandal, which did not involve kids but adults. (I am not Asian, in case you are wondering.)