Which would lose their Deal feed first: Shepherd, Bancroft, or Lafayette?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

How much of a property value drop could a house expect if its school were reassigned out of Deal?

I would think it would have some negative effect because some families are looking for houses specifically with a Deal feed. Lose the Deal feed, lose the added offers that come with it.

So why have home prices in 16th Street Heights been going through the roof? Sales over $1M for well renovated SFHs, and appear to be climbing. That was not the case 4 years ago when there was no one was seriously questioning Deal rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

How much of a property value drop could a house expect if its school were reassigned out of Deal?

I would think it would have some negative effect because some families are looking for houses specifically with a Deal feed. Lose the Deal feed, lose the added offers that come with it.

It hasn't had any impact in Crestwood/16th St Heights. Or Eaton neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OOB feeders account for 1/3 of Deal's population. That would allow OOB kids from all over to have access and put the capacity well below limits.

Great solution if it's accurate. What's your source for 1/3 of Deal being OOB students?

Because Deal is currently 30% OOB. They don't admit OOB students out of the lottery so the only way to be labeled OOB is come from a feeder as OOB student.

We seem to be going in circles. What is your source for saying Deal is currently 30% OOB?

[Anonymous]

"Where do you find demographics for a ward?"
Lots of places. Here is one.
http://planning.dc.gov/page/census-and-demographic-data-ward-3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OOB feeders account for 1/3 of Deal's population. That would allow OOB kids from all over to have access and put the capacity well below limits.

Great solution if it's accurate. What's your source for 1/3 of Deal being OOB students?

Because Deal is currently 30% OOB. They don't admit OOB students out of the lottery so the only way to be labeled OOB is come from a feeder as OOB student.

We seem to be going in circles. What is your source for saying Deal is currently 30% OOB?

Not PP, but it isn't hard to find: http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/Deal+Middle+School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OOB feeders account for 1/3 of Deal's population. That would allow OOB kids from all over to have access and put the capacity well below limits.

Great solution if it's accurate. What's your source for 1/3 of Deal being OOB students?

Because Deal is currently 30% OOB. They don't admit OOB students out of the lottery so the only way to be labeled OOB is come from a feeder as OOB student.

We seem to be going in circles. What is your source for saying Deal is currently 30% OOB?

DCPS profiles. This is from 2014-15 as they haven't updated. It's not likely to be more than a few points off this year.

http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/Deal+Middle+School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OOB feeders account for 1/3 of Deal's population. That would allow OOB kids from all over to have access and put the capacity well below limits.

Great solution if it's accurate. What's your source for 1/3 of Deal being OOB students?

Because Deal is currently 30% OOB. They don't admit OOB students out of the lottery so the only way to be labeled OOB is come from a feeder as OOB student.

We seem to be going in circles. What is your source for saying Deal is currently 30% OOB?

Not PP, but it isn't hard to find: http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/Deal+Middle+School

And Wilson, which is also seriously over capacity is 43% OOB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OOB feeders account for 1/3 of Deal's population. That would allow OOB kids from all over to have access and put the capacity well below limits.

Great solution if it's accurate. What's your source for 1/3 of Deal being OOB students?

Because Deal is currently 30% OOB. They don't admit OOB students out of the lottery so the only way to be labeled OOB is come from a feeder as OOB student.

We seem to be going in circles. What is your source for saying Deal is currently 30% OOB?

DCPS profiles. This is from 2014-15 as they haven't updated. It's not likely to be more than a few points off this year.
http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/Deal+Middle+School

Thanks for the info. Below is data on the OOB population at each of Deal's feeders, and data on the student enrollment vs capacity. Seems odd that they have OOB percentages of 13-14% at schools like Murch and Lafayette that are so overcrowded. How are those OOB students admitted at the elementary level?

Murch 86% in bounds / 14% OOB (620 students / 488 building capacity)
Janney 94% in bounds / 6% OOB (693 students / 570 building capacity)
Lafayette 87% in bounds / 13% OOB (697 students / 516 building capacity)

Also, the combination of high OOB and low enrollment at these schools makes me wonder if some consolidation or realignment of elementary schools might make sense. Are there simply not enough kids in the Hearst and Shepherd neighborhoods to fill the schools? Or are those families opting out of the DCPS system?

Hearst 27% in bounds / 73% OOB (291 students / 325 building capacity)
Shepherd 34% in bounds / 66% OOB (318 students / 342 building capacity)
Bancroft 53% in bounds / 47% OOB (508 students / 563 building capacity)

I agree with your underlying point that an easy solution to lots of overcrowding is to simply make clear that OOB rights at an elementary school will extend further into the feeder pattern for middle school only if there is excess capacity leftover after the in-bounds students are slotted.

[Anonymous]

^^^All three of the latter schools listed--Hearst, Shepherd, and Bancroft--are primarily IB in the lower grades (and have IB waitlists). If current trends hold, they're all on their way to becoming majority IB in coming years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Y'all can have our spot at deal. I think it sounds awful.

+1 I'd rather have Hardy.

I was going to say the same after reading several pages. Come to Hardy. Nothing against Deal as a school, but when was overcrowding ever good? What can the overcrowded DEAL give your children in 3 years that Hardy (or some other middle schools) can't? Don't most the kids meet up in Wilson anyway?
Middle school is a really good time to give your children extra homework at home. I'm not convinced the US curriculum is good enough or that the teachers have enough time for everybody in an overcrowded classroom. Look into curriculum of another country for ideas or follow it precisely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That diversity lawsuit card is a BS red herring, in my view. It's based on the lawsuits from the 1960s and 1970s which dealt with actual disparate treatment among students and schools. None of it said Shepherd Park is required to be zoned forever to Deal Middle. That's just an item one SP poster likes to trot out to threaten a civil rights lawsuit if SP is ever re-zoned away from Deal. It's part of SP's impressive ability to wield political muscle to gain it benefits over other neighborhoods.

If you look at it all of NW has been exercising its political muscle over SW, SE, and NE for the longest. You all are the same.

SP is part of NW. Not sure what you're talking about.

I am grouping SP into the category with the other schools that happen to be in Ward 3. There is a sense of entitlement amongst the parents.

Hear hear!

People who feel entitled to send their kids to someone else's neighborhood are, well, entitled.

What if instead they fixed their own neighborhood schools?

In a city like DC, which has already invested hundreds of millions of dollars in the complete rebuilding/ renovation of a good number of failing schools, that should be the obvious starting point for accusatory whiners like previous PP.

Yes, it's true, all D.C.'s schools need is a handful of whiny parents to step in "fix their own neighborhood schools," and all the various effects of income inequality, generational poverty, low levels of parental education, parents who don't speak English, etc., will be wiped away, eradicating the differences in quality between Deal (with the highest median income of any middle school in the city) and other middle schools.

[Anonymous]

Except there ARE no middle schools in Ward 4. At all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much of a property value drop could a house expect if its school were reassigned out of Deal?

Zero. The DC market is way too hot.

+1 agreed. the property value argument is a red herring. Houses in neighborhoods with unremarkable schools (Petworth, Brookland) are selling for top dollar. Houses in Palisades and Spring Valley (which feed to Hardy) are not impacted at all.

Also, the D.C. government has no obligation to worry about your property value when it's deciding school feeder patterns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OOB feeders account for 1/3 of Deal's population. That would allow OOB kids from all over to have access and put the capacity well below limits.

Great solution if it's accurate. What's your source for 1/3 of Deal being OOB students?

Because Deal is currently 30% OOB. They don't admit OOB students out of the lottery so the only way to be labeled OOB is come from a feeder as OOB student.

We seem to be going in circles. What is your source for saying Deal is currently 30% OOB?

DCPS profiles. This is from 2014-15 as they haven't updated. It's not likely to be more than a few points off this year.
http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/Deal+Middle+School

Thanks for the info. Below is data on the OOB population at each of Deal's feeders, and data on the student enrollment vs capacity. Seems odd that they have OOB percentages of 13-14% at schools like Murch and Lafayette that are so overcrowded. How are those OOB students admitted at the elementary level?

Murch 86% in bounds / 14% OOB (620 students / 488 building capacity)
Janney 94% in bounds / 6% OOB (693 students / 570 building capacity)
Lafayette 87% in bounds / 13% OOB (697 students / 516 building capacity)

Also, the combination of high OOB and low enrollment at these schools makes me wonder if some consolidation or realignment of elementary schools might make sense. Are there simply not enough kids in the Hearst and Shepherd neighborhoods to fill the schools? Or are those families opting out of the DCPS system?

Hearst 27% in bounds / 73% OOB (291 students / 325 building capacity)
Shepherd 34% in bounds / 66% OOB (318 students / 342 building capacity)
Bancroft 53% in bounds / 47% OOB (508 students / 563 building capacity)

I agree with your underlying point that an easy solution to lots of overcrowding is to simply make clear that OOB rights at an elementary school will extend further into the feeder pattern for middle school only if there is excess capacity leftover after the in-bounds students are slotted.

Just fyi your numbers for Shepherd, Heart, and Bancroft are off. Shepherd currently has 362 children this year and Hearst 318.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That diversity lawsuit card is a BS red herring, in my view. It's based on the lawsuits from the 1960s and 1970s which dealt with actual disparate treatment among students and schools. None of it said Shepherd Park is required to be zoned forever to Deal Middle. That's just an item one SP poster likes to trot out to threaten a civil rights lawsuit if SP is ever re-zoned away from Deal. It's part of SP's impressive ability to wield political muscle to gain it benefits over other neighborhoods.

If you look at it all of NW has been exercising its political muscle over SW, SE, and NE for the longest. You all are the same.

SP is part of NW. Not sure what you're talking about.

I am grouping SP into the category with the other schools that happen to be in Ward 3. There is a sense of entitlement amongst the parents.

Hear hear!

People who feel entitled to send their kids to someone else's neighborhood are, well, entitled.

What if instead they fixed their own neighborhood schools?

In a city like DC, which has already invested hundreds of millions of dollars in the complete rebuilding/ renovation of a good number of failing schools, that should be the obvious starting point for accusatory whiners like previous PP.

Yes, it's true, all D.C.'s schools need is a handful of whiny parents to step in "fix their own neighborhood schools," and all the various effects of income inequality, generational poverty, low levels of parental education, parents who don't speak English, etc., will be wiped away, eradicating the differences in quality between Deal (with the highest median income of any middle school in the city) and other middle schools.

Gentrification (not whining) is your friend.