I don't understand the deal with MoCo class size

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In Eastern MC where many ESL kids live, and property taxes are lower, class size is smaller...they pay less and get more

Unfortunately for you, you live in Montgomery County, not Bethesda county or Potomac county. There is no school district that gives one school area more money than another simply because the other side pays more in property taxes. Most school districts provide more funding for students that need more services, ie, ESOL and SN kids. Do you begrudge SN kids more services? No, right, if they are US citizens you are ok with that. But because a lot of the ESL kids are non US citizens, or illegal immigrants, you feel cheated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In Eastern MC where many ESL kids live, and property taxes are lower, class size is smaller...they pay less and get more

Unfortunately for you, you live in Montgomery County, not Bethesda county or Potomac county. There is no school district that gives one school area more money than another simply because the other side pays more in property taxes. Most school districts provide more funding for students that need more services, ie, ESOL and SN kids. Do you begrudge SN kids more services? No, right, if they are US citizens you are ok with that. But because a lot of the ESL kids are non US citizens, or illegal immigrants, you feel cheated.

Yes - and if it's really such a problem for you in Western MC - then come join us in Eastern MC in the land of milk and honey and small class sizes!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sure. I chose to leave a lucrative career 10 years ago to raise my children. There are countless people who choose mission over money. If you don't understand the concept, then you must not have ann appreciation for something called sacrifice.

As the PP said, nobody goes into teaching for the pay. Including public-school teaching.

We don't tell doctors that they should be in it for the healing, not the money. We don't tell doctors that their interest in compensation shows that they lack vocation and a sense of sacrifice. Why do we think it's ok to tell teachers those things?

No we don't tell anyone what they should do when it comes to career choices. But what I have found, in both the medical field and the education field, is that there are a special group of professionals who truly want to make a difference.

Speaking about education, unfortunately the public schools are lacking that type of mission driven teacher. Just my observation as a mom of a student that has been in both private and pubic. I have found that these mission driven educators have so much more to offer students...even beyond typical classroom instruction.

If you want to talk about doctors, I have found the same to be true. Mission driven typically equals doctors practicing in academic hospitals. Money driven typically equals private practice physicians who are cash based. The doctors in hospitals like Hopkins are typically more ethical and skillful than those who have opened private practice and focus on cash flow vs. best interests for patient.

Interesting article about why private school teachers are willing to take less salary...bottom line--because the job conditions are better. They spend less time answering to bureaucracies and more time teaching and getting to know the students. http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-are-private-school-teachers-paid-less-than-public-school-teachers/280829/

That's good for them, if they can afford it.

Most teachers need money to pay the bills, health insurance for their families, and a retirement plan. My DH taught at a Big Three school for a long time before switching to MCPS for these (and other) reasons. His teaching is the same quality as it was at the Big Three, but he is paid a decent salary and can retire at some point.

There is no shame in needing a bona fide job. Most people do.

Teaching may be the same, but I'll bet he does less of it and more paperwork.

Actually, he is happier in his classroom now than he was in the Big Three school.

I call BS on this story. Big 3 teachers get full health insurance, retirement, and very good pay. If you want to say a parochial school, maybe - but most teachers in the elite college prep schools get incredible pay and benefits. Less paperwork and testing, half the class-size per class, and more freedom on their curriculum. I have 1 in a big 3, a sister who works in their sister big 3, and 2 in public. My private school kid in high school has between 11 and 18 kids in his class depending on the subject. My kids in public have 27 in 1st grade and between 29-33 in 9th grade. And most of my private school kid's teachers either have masters, multiple masters, or doctorates. And most that don't are working on their masters. This is not the same in public and I really doubt someone would get masters and doctorates to get paid $50K. My sister makes 83K and she is working on her masters. Teaches 4 classes a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In Eastern MC where many ESL kids live, and property taxes are lower, class size is smaller...they pay less and get more

Yes, and what's more, MCPS even educates the children of people who pay no property taxes at all!!! (Or at least not directly.)

That's because MCPS is a public school system, not a fee-for-service operation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In Eastern MC where many ESL kids live, and property taxes are lower, class size is smaller...they pay less and get more

Unfortunately for you, you live in Montgomery County, not Bethesda county or Potomac county. There is no school district that gives one school area more money than another simply because the other side pays more in property taxes. Most school districts provide more funding for students that need more services, ie, ESOL and SN kids. Do you begrudge SN kids more services? No, right, if they are US citizens you are ok with that. But because a lot of the ESL kids are non US citizens, or illegal immigrants, you feel cheated.

Why wouldn't I feel cheated, um, they are cheating. They are living here illegally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In Eastern MC where many ESL kids live, and property taxes are lower, class size is smaller...they pay less and get more

Unfortunately for you, you live in Montgomery County, not Bethesda county or Potomac county. There is no school district that gives one school area more money than another simply because the other side pays more in property taxes. Most school districts provide more funding for students that need more services, ie, ESOL and SN kids. Do you begrudge SN kids more services? No, right, if they are US citizens you are ok with that. But because a lot of the ESL kids are non US citizens, or illegal immigrants, you feel cheated.

Why wouldn't I feel cheated, um, they are cheating. They are living here illegally.

The children in the schools are not cheating you. They are going to school legally. MCPS exists to provide an education to the children who live in Montgomery County, regardless of immigration status.

Also, very many ESOL students were born in the US. They are US citizens, just like my children (and presumably yours). And many other ESOL students are immigrants with the correct documentation. You should not assume that ESOL = born elsewhere, let alone that ESOL = born elsewhere and immigrated without the correct documentation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sure. I chose to leave a lucrative career 10 years ago to raise my children. There are countless people who choose mission over money. If you don't understand the concept, then you must not have ann appreciation for something called sacrifice.

As the PP said, nobody goes into teaching for the pay. Including public-school teaching.

We don't tell doctors that they should be in it for the healing, not the money. We don't tell doctors that their interest in compensation shows that they lack vocation and a sense of sacrifice. Why do we think it's ok to tell teachers those things?

No we don't tell anyone what they should do when it comes to career choices. But what I have found, in both the medical field and the education field, is that there are a special group of professionals who truly want to make a difference.

Speaking about education, unfortunately the public schools are lacking that type of mission driven teacher. Just my observation as a mom of a student that has been in both private and pubic. I have found that these mission driven educators have so much more to offer students...even beyond typical classroom instruction.

If you want to talk about doctors, I have found the same to be true. Mission driven typically equals doctors practicing in academic hospitals. Money driven typically equals private practice physicians who are cash based. The doctors in hospitals like Hopkins are typically more ethical and skillful than those who have opened private practice and focus on cash flow vs. best interests for patient.

Interesting article about why private school teachers are willing to take less salary...bottom line--because the job conditions are better. They spend less time answering to bureaucracies and more time teaching and getting to know the students. http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-are-private-school-teachers-paid-less-than-public-school-teachers/280829/

That's good for them, if they can afford it.

Most teachers need money to pay the bills, health insurance for their families, and a retirement plan. My DH taught at a Big Three school for a long time before switching to MCPS for these (and other) reasons. His teaching is the same quality as it was at the Big Three, but he is paid a decent salary and can retire at some point.

There is no shame in needing a bona fide job. Most people do.

Teaching may be the same, but I'll bet he does less of it and more paperwork.

Actually, he is happier in his classroom now than he was in the Big Three school.

I call BS on this story. Big 3 teachers get full health insurance, retirement, and very good pay. If you want to say a parochial school, maybe - but most teachers in the elite college prep schools get incredible pay and benefits. Less paperwork and testing, half the class-size per class, and more freedom on their curriculum. I have 1 in a big 3, a sister who works in their sister big 3, and 2 in public. My private school kid in high school has between 11 and 18 kids in his class depending on the subject. My kids in public have 27 in 1st grade and between 29-33 in 9th grade. And most of my private school kid's teachers either have masters, multiple masters, or doctorates. And most that don't are working on their masters. This is not the same in public and I really doubt someone would get masters and doctorates to get paid $50K. My sister makes 83K and she is working on her masters. Teaches 4 classes a day.

Such a strange response. "BS"? Really?

Here's what MCPS offers that private schools do not:

*Robust health insurance, heavily subsidized
*Retirement AND a pension
*Excellent pay (topping out at over $100K; no private school teacher earns that)

I can assure you based on personal experience that Big Three teachers do not earn "incredible" pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sure. I chose to leave a lucrative career 10 years ago to raise my children. There are countless people who choose mission over money. If you don't understand the concept, then you must not have ann appreciation for something called sacrifice.

As the PP said, nobody goes into teaching for the pay. Including public-school teaching.

We don't tell doctors that they should be in it for the healing, not the money. We don't tell doctors that their interest in compensation shows that they lack vocation and a sense of sacrifice. Why do we think it's ok to tell teachers those things?

No we don't tell anyone what they should do when it comes to career choices. But what I have found, in both the medical field and the education field, is that there are a special group of professionals who truly want to make a difference.

Speaking about education, unfortunately the public schools are lacking that type of mission driven teacher. Just my observation as a mom of a student that has been in both private and pubic. I have found that these mission driven educators have so much more to offer students...even beyond typical classroom instruction.

If you want to talk about doctors, I have found the same to be true. Mission driven typically equals doctors practicing in academic hospitals. Money driven typically equals private practice physicians who are cash based. The doctors in hospitals like Hopkins are typically more ethical and skillful than those who have opened private practice and focus on cash flow vs. best interests for patient.

Interesting article about why private school teachers are willing to take less salary...bottom line--because the job conditions are better. They spend less time answering to bureaucracies and more time teaching and getting to know the students. http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-are-private-school-teachers-paid-less-than-public-school-teachers/280829/

That's good for them, if they can afford it.

Most teachers need money to pay the bills, health insurance for their families, and a retirement plan. My DH taught at a Big Three school for a long time before switching to MCPS for these (and other) reasons. His teaching is the same quality as it was at the Big Three, but he is paid a decent salary and can retire at some point.

There is no shame in needing a bona fide job. Most people do.

Teaching may be the same, but I'll bet he does less of it and more paperwork.

Actually, he is happier in his classroom now than he was in the Big Three school.

I call BS on this story. Big 3 teachers get full health insurance, retirement, and very good pay. If you want to say a parochial school, maybe - but most teachers in the elite college prep schools get incredible pay and benefits. Less paperwork and testing, half the class-size per class, and more freedom on their curriculum. I have 1 in a big 3, a sister who works in their sister big 3, and 2 in public. My private school kid in high school has between 11 and 18 kids in his class depending on the subject. My kids in public have 27 in 1st grade and between 29-33 in 9th grade. And most of my private school kid's teachers either have masters, multiple masters, or doctorates. And most that don't are working on their masters. This is not the same in public and I really doubt someone would get masters and doctorates to get paid $50K. My sister makes 83K and she is working on her masters. Teaches 4 classes a day.

Such a strange response. "BS"? Really?

Here's what MCPS offers that private schools do not:

*Robust health insurance, heavily subsidized
*Retirement AND a pension
*Excellent pay (topping out at over $100K; no private school teacher earns that)

I can assure you based on personal experience that Big Three teachers do not earn "incredible" pay.

Therein lies the problem. I rest my case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sure. I chose to leave a lucrative career 10 years ago to raise my children. There are countless people who choose mission over money. If you don't understand the concept, then you must not have ann appreciation for something called sacrifice.

As the PP said, nobody goes into teaching for the pay. Including public-school teaching.

We don't tell doctors that they should be in it for the healing, not the money. We don't tell doctors that their interest in compensation shows that they lack vocation and a sense of sacrifice. Why do we think it's ok to tell teachers those things?

No we don't tell anyone what they should do when it comes to career choices. But what I have found, in both the medical field and the education field, is that there are a special group of professionals who truly want to make a difference.

Speaking about education, unfortunately the public schools are lacking that type of mission driven teacher. Just my observation as a mom of a student that has been in both private and pubic. I have found that these mission driven educators have so much more to offer students...even beyond typical classroom instruction.

If you want to talk about doctors, I have found the same to be true. Mission driven typically equals doctors practicing in academic hospitals. Money driven typically equals private practice physicians who are cash based. The doctors in hospitals like Hopkins are typically more ethical and skillful than those who have opened private practice and focus on cash flow vs. best interests for patient.

Interesting article about why private school teachers are willing to take less salary...bottom line--because the job conditions are better. They spend less time answering to bureaucracies and more time teaching and getting to know the students. http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-are-private-school-teachers-paid-less-than-public-school-teachers/280829/

That's good for them, if they can afford it.

Most teachers need money to pay the bills, health insurance for their families, and a retirement plan. My DH taught at a Big Three school for a long time before switching to MCPS for these (and other) reasons. His teaching is the same quality as it was at the Big Three, but he is paid a decent salary and can retire at some point.

There is no shame in needing a bona fide job. Most people do.

Teaching may be the same, but I'll bet he does less of it and more paperwork.

Actually, he is happier in his classroom now than he was in the Big Three school.

I call BS on this story. Big 3 teachers get full health insurance, retirement, and very good pay. If you want to say a parochial school, maybe - but most teachers in the elite college prep schools get incredible pay and benefits. Less paperwork and testing, half the class-size per class, and more freedom on their curriculum. I have 1 in a big 3, a sister who works in their sister big 3, and 2 in public. My private school kid in high school has between 11 and 18 kids in his class depending on the subject. My kids in public have 27 in 1st grade and between 29-33 in 9th grade. And most of my private school kid's teachers either have masters, multiple masters, or doctorates. And most that don't are working on their masters. This is not the same in public and I really doubt someone would get masters and doctorates to get paid $50K. My sister makes 83K and she is working on her masters. Teaches 4 classes a day.

Such a strange response. "BS"? Really?

Here's what MCPS offers that private schools do not:

*Robust health insurance, heavily subsidized
*Retirement AND a pension
*Excellent pay (topping out at over $100K; no private school teacher earns that)

I can assure you based on personal experience that Big Three teachers do not earn "incredible" pay.

Therein lies the problem. I rest my case.

Your case for what? That the only good teachers are the ones who forgo good pay and benefits in favor of a "vocation"-driven job?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sure. I chose to leave a lucrative career 10 years ago to raise my children. There are countless people who choose mission over money. If you don't understand the concept, then you must not have ann appreciation for something called sacrifice.

As the PP said, nobody goes into teaching for the pay. Including public-school teaching.

We don't tell doctors that they should be in it for the healing, not the money. We don't tell doctors that their interest in compensation shows that they lack vocation and a sense of sacrifice. Why do we think it's ok to tell teachers those things?

No we don't tell anyone what they should do when it comes to career choices. But what I have found, in both the medical field and the education field, is that there are a special group of professionals who truly want to make a difference.

Speaking about education, unfortunately the public schools are lacking that type of mission driven teacher. Just my observation as a mom of a student that has been in both private and pubic. I have found that these mission driven educators have so much more to offer students...even beyond typical classroom instruction.

If you want to talk about doctors, I have found the same to be true. Mission driven typically equals doctors practicing in academic hospitals. Money driven typically equals private practice physicians who are cash based. The doctors in hospitals like Hopkins are typically more ethical and skillful than those who have opened private practice and focus on cash flow vs. best interests for patient.

Interesting article about why private school teachers are willing to take less salary...bottom line--because the job conditions are better. They spend less time answering to bureaucracies and more time teaching and getting to know the students. http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-are-private-school-teachers-paid-less-than-public-school-teachers/280829/

That's good for them, if they can afford it.

Most teachers need money to pay the bills, health insurance for their families, and a retirement plan. My DH taught at a Big Three school for a long time before switching to MCPS for these (and other) reasons. His teaching is the same quality as it was at the Big Three, but he is paid a decent salary and can retire at some point.

There is no shame in needing a bona fide job. Most people do.

Teaching may be the same, but I'll bet he does less of it and more paperwork.

Actually, he is happier in his classroom now than he was in the Big Three school.

I call BS on this story. Big 3 teachers get full health insurance, retirement, and very good pay. If you want to say a parochial school, maybe - but most teachers in the elite college prep schools get incredible pay and benefits. Less paperwork and testing, half the class-size per class, and more freedom on their curriculum. I have 1 in a big 3, a sister who works in their sister big 3, and 2 in public. My private school kid in high school has between 11 and 18 kids in his class depending on the subject. My kids in public have 27 in 1st grade and between 29-33 in 9th grade. And most of my private school kid's teachers either have masters, multiple masters, or doctorates. And most that don't are working on their masters. This is not the same in public and I really doubt someone would get masters and doctorates to get paid $50K. My sister makes 83K and she is working on her masters. Teaches 4 classes a day.

Such a strange response. "BS"? Really?

Here's what MCPS offers that private schools do not:

*Robust health insurance, heavily subsidized
*Retirement AND a pension
*Excellent pay (topping out at over $100K; no private school teacher earns that)

I can assure you based on personal experience that Big Three teachers do not earn "incredible" pay.

Therein lies the problem. I rest my case.

Your case for what? That the only good teachers are the ones who forgo good pay and benefits in favor of a "vocation"-driven job?

Pubic schools are wasteful in many ways...including how they arrange their pay scales. Like I said...teachers who are attracted to this environment are the ones who only care about pensions, and other ridiculous benefits that have no place in a public sector position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Pubic schools are wasteful in many ways...including how they arrange their pay scales. Like I said...teachers who are attracted to this environment are the ones who only care about pensions, and other ridiculous benefits that have no place in a public sector position.

I'm not a teacher, but you are crazy. Why shouldn't teachers care about their pay and pension? I would, especially if I have to deal with crazy and/or shitty parents. How do you expect teachers to eat and live? They need to do that, you know, in order to be able to teach your kids.

Why do you think government workers get a pension and cheaper healthcare after they retire? Because the pay is shitty, but the government needs to attract smart people, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Pubic schools are wasteful in many ways...including how they arrange their pay scales. Like I said...teachers who are attracted to this environment are the ones who only care about pensions, and other ridiculous benefits that have no place in a public sector position.

If you want good people in a position, then you have to offer them something they want in return. Usually that is monetary compensation -- either salary, or benefits, or both. That is how the free market works. Teaching is not magically immune to market forces. Very few people with other options are interested in a job that involves hard work, little pay, and even less prestige.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Pubic schools are wasteful in many ways...including how they arrange their pay scales. Like I said...teachers who are attracted to this environment are the ones who only care about pensions, and other ridiculous benefits that have no place in a public sector position.

I'm not a teacher, but you are crazy. Why shouldn't teachers care about their pay and pension? I would, especially if I have to deal with crazy and/or shitty parents. How do you expect teachers to eat and live? They need to do that, you know, in order to be able to teach your kids.

Why do you think government workers get a pension and cheaper healthcare after they retire? Because the pay is shitty, but the government needs to attract smart people, too.

Shame on teachers for wanting a living wage and good benefits! The nerve!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Pubic schools are wasteful in many ways...including how they arrange their pay scales. Like I said...teachers who are attracted to this environment are the ones who only care about pensions, and other ridiculous benefits that have no place in a public sector position.

If you want good people in a position, then you have to offer them something they want in return. Usually that is monetary compensation -- either salary, or benefits, or both. That is how the free market works. Teaching is not magically immune to market forces. Very few people with other options are interested in a job that involves hard work, little pay, and even less prestige.

So tell me why the best teachers are in schools that pay less and have mediocre benefits (privates)? Because the conditions are better for the teachers and the students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Pubic schools are wasteful in many ways...including how they arrange their pay scales. Like I said...teachers who are attracted to this environment are the ones who only care about pensions, and other ridiculous benefits that have no place in a public sector position.

If you want good people in a position, then you have to offer them something they want in return. Usually that is monetary compensation -- either salary, or benefits, or both. That is how the free market works. Teaching is not magically immune to market forces. Very few people with other options are interested in a job that involves hard work, little pay, and even less prestige.

So tell me why the best teachers are in schools that pay less and have mediocre benefits (privates)? Because the conditions are better for the teachers and the students.

Cite your source for your assertion that the "best" teachers are in private schools.