I don't understand the deal with MoCo class size

[Anonymous]

Also, I'm still waiting for your list of countries with successful school systems, so that we can take a look at how those systems are structured.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^P.S. No teacher (other than part-time teachers) works a six-hour day.

I drop my child off at the kiss n ride 15 minutes before the first bell (8:45am) and there are teachers walking in for the day every single day. The one day a week she has an activity that I pick her up at 4:15pm (I usually get there at 4:10pm) the staff parking lot is completely empty. I am so sick of people saying teachers work these 8-10hr days. Grading papers at home at night doesn't count. I work 8-10hrs a day in an office and still come home and do some work at night. As do most jobs these days. EMT's make $15/hr and work weekends, nights, save lives, put themselves in harms way, etc.. but somehow a teacher deserves $100K while having off all summer? No.

It doesn't? Why doesn't it?

And again -- who is talking about deserves? Compensation has nothing to do with what people deserve. Otherwise people who take care of children and old people would be rich, and lobbyists and botox dermatologists would earn -- well, a whole lot less. If you want good teachers, you have to pay enough to attract good teachers. If you don't think teachers should get paid much, you won't attract good teachers.

Also, could you please explain how you drop your child off at 8:45, pick her up at 4:15, and put in an 8-10-hour day at the office?

Because almost every person in America that receives a salary works outside of 40hrs and teachers don't even work 40hrs before their "outside" work starts. No public school in MCPS has an 8hr day. All of them are 6hrs and about 2hrs of that is not directly with students. So teachers work 4hrs a day with our kids and 2hrs of lunch or planning. For the rest of the world who does work your "8-10hr day at the office" as you said above, there are cell phone calls, texts, take-offs, marketing, papers, emails, editing, proofreading, online telecommute, follow-ups, etc... all done at home - just like a teacher sitting and grading papers on a couch or in bed.

The work week is even longer for salaried workers (an average of 49 hours), likely because employers don't have to worry about paying them overtime. According to the Gallup poll, half of salaried full-time employees said they work 50 or more hours each week.
[i]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^P.S. No teacher (other than part-time teachers) works a six-hour day.

I drop my child off at the kiss n ride 15 minutes before the first bell (8:45am) and there are teachers walking in for the day every single day. The one day a week she has an activity that I pick her up at 4:15pm (I usually get there at 4:10pm) the staff parking lot is completely empty. I am so sick of people saying teachers work these 8-10hr days. Grading papers at home at night doesn't count. I work 8-10hrs a day in an office and still come home and do some work at night. As do most jobs these days. EMT's make $15/hr and work weekends, nights, save lives, put themselves in harms way, etc.. but somehow a teacher deserves $100K while having off all summer? No.

It doesn't? Why doesn't it?

And again -- who is talking about deserves? Compensation has nothing to do with what people deserve. Otherwise people who take care of children and old people would be rich, and lobbyists and botox dermatologists would earn -- well, a whole lot less. If you want good teachers, you have to pay enough to attract good teachers. If you don't think teachers should get paid much, you won't attract good teachers.

Also, could you please explain how you drop your child off at 8:45, pick her up at 4:15, and put in an 8-10-hour day at the office?

Because almost every person in America that receives a salary works outside of 40hrs and teachers don't even work 40hrs before their "outside" work starts. No public school in MCPS has an 8hr day. All of them are 6hrs and about 2hrs of that is not directly with students. So teachers work 4hrs a day with our kids and 2hrs of lunch or planning. For the rest of the world who does work your "8-10hr day at the office" as you said above, there are cell phone calls, texts, take-offs, marketing, papers, emails, editing, proofreading, online telecommute, follow-ups, etc... all done at home - just like a teacher sitting and grading papers on a couch or in bed.

That is the student day, not the teacher work day. Look at the reporting hours on the contract. Teachers have been disciplined or fired for arriving later or leaving earlier than the contractual work day.

[Anonymous]

Maybe the PP thinks that only time spent with students counts as work, for teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^P.S. No teacher (other than part-time teachers) works a six-hour day.

I drop my child off at the kiss n ride 15 minutes before the first bell (8:45am) and there are teachers walking in for the day every single day. The one day a week she has an activity that I pick her up at 4:15pm (I usually get there at 4:10pm) the staff parking lot is completely empty. I am so sick of people saying teachers work these 8-10hr days. Grading papers at home at night doesn't count. I work 8-10hrs a day in an office and still come home and do some work at night. As do most jobs these days. EMT's make $15/hr and work weekends, nights, save lives, put themselves in harms way, etc.. but somehow a teacher deserves $100K while having off all summer? No.

It doesn't? Why doesn't it?

And again -- who is talking about deserves? Compensation has nothing to do with what people deserve. Otherwise people who take care of children and old people would be rich, and lobbyists and botox dermatologists would earn -- well, a whole lot less. If you want good teachers, you have to pay enough to attract good teachers. If you don't think teachers should get paid much, you won't attract good teachers.

Also, could you please explain how you drop your child off at 8:45, pick her up at 4:15, and put in an 8-10-hour day at the office?

Because almost every person in America that receives a salary works outside of 40hrs and teachers don't even work 40hrs before their "outside" work starts. No public school in MCPS has an 8hr day. All of them are 6hrs and about 2hrs of that is not directly with students. So teachers work 4hrs a day with our kids and 2hrs of lunch or planning. For the rest of the world who does work your "8-10hr day at the office" as you said above, there are cell phone calls, texts, take-offs, marketing, papers, emails, editing, proofreading, online telecommute, follow-ups, etc... all done at home - just like a teacher sitting and grading papers on a couch or in bed.

That is the student day, not the teacher work day. Look at the reporting hours on the contract. Teachers have been disciplined or fired for arriving later or leaving earlier than the contractual work day.

Not the PP you are talking to but I guess my entire school should get fired. They are never there for 8hrs. I am a Girl Scout leader and have a room after school for an hour. There is never anyone left in that building when we leave except for aftercare. The teacher in my room packs up
And goes home as soon as the last kid leaves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^P.S. No teacher (other than part-time teachers) works a six-hour day.

I drop my child off at the kiss n ride 15 minutes before the first bell (8:45am) and there are teachers walking in for the day every single day. The one day a week she has an activity that I pick her up at 4:15pm (I usually get there at 4:10pm) the staff parking lot is completely empty. I am so sick of people saying teachers work these 8-10hr days. Grading papers at home at night doesn't count. I work 8-10hrs a day in an office and still come home and do some work at night. As do most jobs these days. EMT's make $15/hr and work weekends, nights, save lives, put themselves in harms way, etc.. but somehow a teacher deserves $100K while having off all summer? No.

It doesn't? Why doesn't it?

And again -- who is talking about deserves? Compensation has nothing to do with what people deserve. Otherwise people who take care of children and old people would be rich, and lobbyists and botox dermatologists would earn -- well, a whole lot less. If you want good teachers, you have to pay enough to attract good teachers. If you don't think teachers should get paid much, you won't attract good teachers.

Also, could you please explain how you drop your child off at 8:45, pick her up at 4:15, and put in an 8-10-hour day at the office?

Because almost every person in America that receives a salary works outside of 40hrs and teachers don't even work 40hrs before their "outside" work starts. No public school in MCPS has an 8hr day. All of them are 6hrs and about 2hrs of that is not directly with students. So teachers work 4hrs a day with our kids and 2hrs of lunch or planning. For the rest of the world who does work your "8-10hr day at the office" as you said above, there are cell phone calls, texts, take-offs, marketing, papers, emails, editing, proofreading, online telecommute, follow-ups, etc... all done at home - just like a teacher sitting and grading papers on a couch or in bed.

That is the student day, not the teacher work day. Look at the reporting hours on the contract. Teachers have been disciplined or fired for arriving later or leaving earlier than the contractual work day.

Not the PP you are talking to but I guess my entire school should get fired. They are never there for 8hrs. I am a Girl Scout leader and have a room after school for an hour. There is never anyone left in that building when we leave except for aftercare. The teacher in my room packs up
And goes home as soon as the last kid leaves.

Once again...I rest my case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The point with parochial schools (and many other Catholic privates), is that many of the teachers are there because they want to be...not because the benefits or the pay is good. Many of these teachers are committed to Catholic education, consider it to be more of a vocation vs a job, and have a passion for teaching our children. That is not to say public school teachers are not passionate, it is just a conviction that I see coming from them that I have not witnessed in a public school.

I assume that the teachers in MCPS are also there because they want to be there. Otherwise they wouldn't be there.

Also, I don't think that wanting to get paid for one's work is a sign of lesser commitment.

Clearly, you have missed my point. But I guess that is to be expected if you have never been involved in Catholic education.

I'd be surprised if all those Catholic educators thought they'd be teaching a class of lily white snowflakes. My involvement with Catholic education has included a deep and abiding commitment to bringing education to everyone, but especially the poor and underserved. However, with a handful of exceptions (St. Jerome, St. Francis) that doesn't seem to be the mission of parochial schools in this area.

At least in my aunt's case, she loved teaching in a Catholic school, but was naive about the lack of decent retirement benefits. She did not have any inheritance to count on (as some private school teachers may have.) So now she's living on a very modest income in her mid-70s. I think she regrets that she didn't go to a public school district, where she could now have a decent retirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The point with parochial schools (and many other Catholic privates), is that many of the teachers are there because they want to be...not because the benefits or the pay is good. Many of these teachers are committed to Catholic education, consider it to be more of a vocation vs a job, and have a passion for teaching our children. That is not to say public school teachers are not passionate, it is just a conviction that I see coming from them that I have not witnessed in a public school.

I assume that the teachers in MCPS are also there because they want to be there. Otherwise they wouldn't be there.

Also, I don't think that wanting to get paid for one's work is a sign of lesser commitment.

Clearly, you have missed my point. But I guess that is to be expected if you have never been involved in Catholic education.

I'd be surprised if all those Catholic educators thought they'd be teaching a class of lily white snowflakes. My involvement with Catholic education has included a deep and abiding commitment to bringing education to everyone, but especially the poor and underserved. However, with a handful of exceptions (St. Jerome, St. Francis) that doesn't seem to be the mission of parochial schools in this area.

At least in my aunt's case, she loved teaching in a Catholic school, but was naive about the lack of decent retirement benefits. She did not have any inheritance to count on (as some private school teachers may have.) So now she's living on a very modest income in her mid-70s. I think she regrets that she didn't go to a public school district, where she could now have a decent retirement.

But she loved teaching where she was. Only the money-hungry teachers stay in public and it isn't for the love of teaching. Who wants to teach kids who can't speak English, barely show up to class, do standardized testing half the year and strict curriculum you must follow? Never mind the 30+ kids in a room made for 20-25. I am happy with teachers in my Catholic school. They are fresh, like having a little more autonomy and confidence. Are eating away hours at mindless meetings. Maybe your aunt isn't rich but she led a happy lifetime in a teaching position she wanted to be in.

[Anonymous]

Who wants to teach a kid who can barely speak English? Lots of good teacher and literacy volunteers. These are the kids that need us the most ! I really hope you are not a teacher..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^P.S. No teacher (other than part-time teachers) works a six-hour day.

I drop my child off at the kiss n ride 15 minutes before the first bell (8:45am) and there are teachers walking in for the day every single day. The one day a week she has an activity that I pick her up at 4:15pm (I usually get there at 4:10pm) the staff parking lot is completely empty. I am so sick of people saying teachers work these 8-10hr days. Grading papers at home at night doesn't count. I work 8-10hrs a day in an office and still come home and do some work at night. As do most jobs these days. EMT's make $15/hr and work weekends, nights, save lives, put themselves in harms way, etc.. but somehow a teacher deserves $100K while having off all summer? No.

It doesn't? Why doesn't it?

And again -- who is talking about deserves? Compensation has nothing to do with what people deserve. Otherwise people who take care of children and old people would be rich, and lobbyists and botox dermatologists would earn -- well, a whole lot less. If you want good teachers, you have to pay enough to attract good teachers. If you don't think teachers should get paid much, you won't attract good teachers.

Also, could you please explain how you drop your child off at 8:45, pick her up at 4:15, and put in an 8-10-hour day at the office?

Because almost every person in America that receives a salary works outside of 40hrs and teachers don't even work 40hrs before their "outside" work starts. No public school in MCPS has an 8hr day. All of them are 6hrs and about 2hrs of that is not directly with students. So teachers work 4hrs a day with our kids and 2hrs of lunch or planning. For the rest of the world who does work your "8-10hr day at the office" as you said above, there are cell phone calls, texts, take-offs, marketing, papers, emails, editing, proofreading, online telecommute, follow-ups, etc... all done at home - just like a teacher sitting and grading papers on a couch or in bed.

That is the student day, not the teacher work day. Look at the reporting hours on the contract. Teachers have been disciplined or fired for arriving later or leaving earlier than the contractual work day.

Not the PP you are talking to but I guess my entire school should get fired. They are never there for 8hrs. I am a Girl Scout leader and have a room after school for an hour. There is never anyone left in that building when we leave except for aftercare. The teacher in my room packs up
And goes home as soon as the last kid leaves.

Well, you are using her room so she probably has permission to do so. And how do you know what time she arrives in the morning? The title I ES in my neighborhood has a packed parking lot by 7:15, hours before the teacher report time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

But she loved teaching where she was. Only the money-hungry teachers stay in public and it isn't for the love of teaching. Who wants to teach kids who can't speak English, barely show up to class, do standardized testing half the year and strict curriculum you must follow? Never mind the 30+ kids in a room made for 20-25. I am happy with teachers in my Catholic school. They are fresh, like having a little more autonomy and confidence. Are eating away hours at mindless meetings. Maybe your aunt isn't rich but she led a happy lifetime in a teaching position she wanted to be in.

So the teachers who really love teaching go to schools where they never have to teach children who can't speak English or don't go to class...? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, because I don't really see this as evidence of love of teaching.

But if you're happy in Catholic school, that's good, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The point with parochial schools (and many other Catholic privates), is that many of the teachers are there because they want to be...not because the benefits or the pay is good. Many of these teachers are committed to Catholic education, consider it to be more of a vocation vs a job, and have a passion for teaching our children. That is not to say public school teachers are not passionate, it is just a conviction that I see coming from them that I have not witnessed in a public school.

I assume that the teachers in MCPS are also there because they want to be there. Otherwise they wouldn't be there.

Also, I don't think that wanting to get paid for one's work is a sign of lesser commitment.

Clearly, you have missed my point. But I guess that is to be expected if you have never been involved in Catholic education.

I'd be surprised if all those Catholic educators thought they'd be teaching a class of lily white snowflakes. My involvement with Catholic education has included a deep and abiding commitment to bringing education to everyone, but especially the poor and underserved. However, with a handful of exceptions (St. Jerome, St. Francis) that doesn't seem to be the mission of parochial schools in this area.

At least in my aunt's case, she loved teaching in a Catholic school, but was naive about the lack of decent retirement benefits. She did not have any inheritance to count on (as some private school teachers may have.) So now she's living on a very modest income in her mid-70s. I think she regrets that she didn't go to a public school district, where she could now have a decent retirement.

But she loved teaching where she was. Only the money-hungry teachers stay in public and it isn't for the love of teaching. Who wants to teach kids who can't speak English, barely show up to class, do standardized testing half the year and strict curriculum you must follow? Never mind the 30+ kids in a room made for 20-25. I am happy with teachers in my Catholic school. They are fresh, like having a little more autonomy and confidence. Are eating away hours at mindless meetings. Maybe your aunt isn't rich but she led a happy lifetime in a teaching position she wanted to be in.

I doubt that the fact that she loved teaching means much to her as she cracks open a can of cat food for dinner now.

Teachers need to be paid for their work just as any other professionals do. That doesn't make them money hungry, it makes them workers.

Your description of a public school classroom bears no resemblancem to any I have seen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The point with parochial schools (and many other Catholic privates), is that many of the teachers are there because they want to be...not because the benefits or the pay is good. Many of these teachers are committed to Catholic education, consider it to be more of a vocation vs a job, and have a passion for teaching our children. That is not to say public school teachers are not passionate, it is just a conviction that I see coming from them that I have not witnessed in a public school.

I assume that the teachers in MCPS are also there because they want to be there. Otherwise they wouldn't be there.

Also, I don't think that wanting to get paid for one's work is a sign of lesser commitment.

Clearly, you have missed my point. But I guess that is to be expected if you have never been involved in Catholic education.

I'd be surprised if all those Catholic educators thought they'd be teaching a class of lily white snowflakes. My involvement with Catholic education has included a deep and abiding commitment to bringing education to everyone, but especially the poor and underserved. However, with a handful of exceptions (St. Jerome, St. Francis) that doesn't seem to be the mission of parochial schools in this area.

At least in my aunt's case, she loved teaching in a Catholic school, but was naive about the lack of decent retirement benefits. She did not have any inheritance to count on (as some private school teachers may have.) So now she's living on a very modest income in her mid-70s. I think she regrets that she didn't go to a public school district, where she could now have a decent retirement.

But she loved teaching where she was. Only the money-hungry teachers stay in public and it isn't for the love of teaching. Who wants to teach kids who can't speak English, barely show up to class, do standardized testing half the year and strict curriculum you must follow? Never mind the 30+ kids in a room made for 20-25. I am happy with teachers in my Catholic school. They are fresh, like having a little more autonomy and confidence. Are eating away hours at mindless meetings. Maybe your aunt isn't rich but she led a happy lifetime in a teaching position she wanted to be in.

I doubt that the fact that she loved teaching means much to her as she cracks open a can of cat food for dinner now.

Teachers need to be paid for their work just as any other professionals do. That doesn't make them money hungry, it makes them workers.

Your description of a public school classroom bears no resemblancem to any I have seen.

Whoa, you haven't seen a public classroom with 30 kids, at least a handful that can't speak English, standardized testing and weeks of prepping for standardized testing, and 2.0 curriculum they must teach? You aren't from MCPS then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who wants to teach a kid who can barely speak English? Lots of good teacher and literacy volunteers. These are the kids that need us the most ! I really hope you are not a teacher..

Me! That's why I went back to grad school to be an ESOL teacher!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How much are the property taxes where you're from in Boston? I would bet they are higher than MCPS. I have lived in the Chicago suburbs and Pittsburgh suburbs and MoCo taxes are much less. I moved from an $800,000 house in MoCo where the taxes were just under $8,000. An $800,000 in my Pittsburgh suburb would have taxes well over $25,000. So I don't think MoCo homeowners pay a ton in taxes and even a slight increase could make a difference.

We moved here from Atlanta 16 years ago. Our taxes only recently became as high as they were there (not that Atlanta had great schools). I think moco taxes are actually quite low.